> The only officially supported communication medium we have is mailing lists, and there's several good reasons for that.

More things that are official: <freebsd.org/community>

Title: Community | The FreeBSD Project

The mailing lists are quite sucky, but that's a conversation for another day. A day thirty years from now, if we're unlucky.

> Discord has a nice web client

Nice, but buggy. <discord.com/channels/72702375234843…543661058654269/1123297250899148840> for example.

Title: Discord

> uh.. FreeBSD doesn't *have* block devices

Koston: bug 272262

272262 – sysutils/lsblk: avoid the phrase 'block device' bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=272262

well, it doesn't have them in the sense of traditional block vs. character devices

but there is still a distinction

grahamperrin: cheers! that's probably going to be a bit tricky to navigate, since the difference between character vs. block device is not relevant (or interesting) for most people

one distinction that was apparently re-introduced is the distinction between disk-like devices which are geom providers and ones which are not

the only ones that are not that I know of offhand are zfs zvols in "dev" mode

Thanks, feel free to make .patch files and/or pull requests.

I refrained, because I don't know enough about the distinctions to sanely make the four/five editions.

Is it enough to simply say 'devices'?

swap block -> disk and lsblk -> lsdsk with symlink lsblk -> lsdsk ?

I'm not up to date on fbsd development since quite a while though, so I can't say for sure what the best approach would be

this lsblk thing (which I have not used) seems to have some omissions

for I in ada da mmcsd md vtbd <-- isn't this missing at least nvd and nda ?

block devices were removed back in ...4.x days? maybe 5?

5.0

see man 4 intro under "historical notes"

when rewriting that I didn't go into great detail given that it's only meant to be an overview

good times

"block" (buffered) devices were vestigial even in 4.x and before, though

i.e. mounted filesystems didn't use the buffering, but rather used the VM system instead

the block-device buffer pool was small and mostly unused

(iirc)

Title: src - FreeBSD source tree

grahamperrin: it's been 30 years already

oh, reviews.freebsd.org/D40565

Title: ⚙ D40565 Remove toor backup account

Nice let's see how many people object to that

In my 26 years never have I ever used that or used a service that used it

cpet: same

Now of we could get rid of all the firewalls and stick to just one like the other bsds

no

that would be a very poor career move

do we get to vote which one?

No

yuripv: see, was gonna say that. not if cpet has anything to say, and they do

At a minimum ipf that shit has been abandoned for a while

yuripv: sorry please redirect that to #freebsd-firewalls so we don't upset the meena

yuripv: any reason behind the toor thing

Need to remember how much postmaster was a pain after this openssl update

Or wait until latest pkgs get rebuilt

"/etc/master.passwd was added in 1bf9d5d9518e with a toor account (and disabled by default in 9f808f21bf4b). It originally used a different shell (sh) which provided a backup in case the main root account's shell (csh) was broken. Root's default shell is now sh so toor no longer serves this purpose.

Even if disabled by default the existence of an extra superuser account may be alarming to administrators and to security auditing systems. Just remove it by default. Sysadmins who wish to have a second superuser account can add one."

meena: I sometimes manually edit /etc/passwd and set another account with uid 0 ...

why do you need two ? Should be using sudo

Been removing that toor account ever since I felt the need for 2 was not required

Probably way before meena knew what freebsd was

cpet: i've been using FreeBSD since about 2010, when I was added as committer to Apache httpd. One of my first acts as Apache Traffic Server committer was porting it to clang, Solaris and FreeBSD. I have been contributing to FreeBSD since about 2017.

none of that means that I'm particularly good at any of what I do… i… just… keep doing it.

Yeah thought so

doing is what matters

cpet: I've used toor many a time before root switched to sh, so I don't really buy the argument that it should be removed because any particular person hasn't used it.

Also, ipf is maintained by cy@

He's even listed in src/MAINTAINERS.

cpet, back before sudo, I used to add an extra root account also. Each administor tended to have their own, so that logs would show who was active at time when blame needed to be assigned. :)

I guess I should say, back before sudo was as prevalent as it is now. This was late 80s.

Wikipedia shows it as abandoned ware

freshbsd.org/freebsd/src/commit/d8e6f4946ce huh

Title: FreeBSD / src / d8e6f49 / vm: Fix anonymous memory clustering under ASLR - FreshBSD

cpet: wikipedia isn't a credible source of information

ipf doesn't have a maintainer outside of FreeBSDs source tree, but that doesn't really matter since it got moved from contrib to netpfil and has a maintainer who's an active committer.

cpet, where do you see that? I see "stable release .. 3 months ago"

Thats the one from reed ?

if only ... he never worked for sun

It lived in contrib meaning it's contributed software...

Stable release 10 years ago abandoned ware

Are we talking about the same wikipedia?

cgit.freebsd.org/src/tree/MAINTAINERS#n43 cgit.freebsd.org/src/log/sys/netpfil/ipfilter

Title: MAINTAINERS - src - FreeBSD source tree

please, PLEASE just stop looking at wikipedia

Who are you to tell me what I can and can't do ?

i give up.

Thank you

rofl

hi all; interested in getting freebsd running on one of my computers. Trouble is they're all old thinkpads running coreboot, and when booting the memstick installer I get no bootloader display, and only get a garbled top few lines (it's the blue installer color). Photo: litter.catbox.moe/o4uhlj.jpg (sorry, best photo I can manage right now)

i needed that laff this morning

cpet: if you want to make an ass of yourself, go right ahead.

debdrup: still on it ? Thought you given up ?

elagost: what sort of payloads do coreboot usually do? I've not had a ThinkPad I could be sure it'd worked on, so I've never really tried it.

MBR? pMBR+GPT? ESP? Something else?

I am using seabios. same as running in kvm on linux; I have no issues using freebsd as a vm. I know it has something to do with the video hardware not being fully initialized.

Googling this is a known issue with coreboot and freebsd

I don't see a fix but may try one of the other BSDs see if they work pin point how or why

openbsd works. boots like a console until it loads the video drivers. Linux does something similar.

Try updating the fw

Sometimes that fixes some issues

elagost, what thinkpad do you have ?

is there a way to force the freebsd installer into text console mode? Or set the video mode?

Remember one time my SSD had some weirdness updated and it fixed it SanDisk drive

El cheapo

ibm has been notorious for bullshit installs

CmdLnKid: i try just for you

well thanks i guess ;)

I have a T430 running github.com/merge/skulls version of coreboot. Picture was my x220 with self built coreboot. Similar build though.

both do the exact same thing when booting the installer.

Third part fw ?

yeah, both are running coreboot, not original bios.

hmmm

Have you tried the original fw?

dangerous configurations to advise on

I have not. Not going to go back to that.

Seeing where it breaks is one way to find a fix

Title: freebsd thinkpad at DuckDuckGo

this will take quite the bit of searching for you my friend

yeah I realize this combo is a bit off the reservation. it probably won't work.

I would try to flash the original and go from there

never say never but yeah thats quite a bit diff

If not recycle and move on

consider me conditioned by corp standards and just don't do that shit anymore

Got a new laptop sound doesn't work , moved on

yeah I am not going to put the original fw back on these machines. Coreboot is staying around. Linux works fine. OpenBSD kinda half works. I would rather keep the machines and not use FreeBSD than get rid of them to use it. was just curious, mainly.

cpet, sound could work buuut you just need more time with it but gave up

If there is a way to force the installer to boot text mode, or get a serial console, that may work. But I can't even get it to show the bootlaoder screen.

cpet, knock it off capture.dropbox.com/2I97nqVLndIqHcdW

Title: Dropbox Capture

Ok sorry masta

its not like that just chill dude

You chill and spread some daemon love

CmdLnKid: actually it's literally not supported some weird amd sound chip

AMD AM615

interesting

cpet: you're a pest, can you please be quiet because there are also adults here who have meaningful things to say

thats not needed bro common now

Such as telling someone to flash the original fw to see if freebsd boots ?

if a server falls in a datacenter ... does it make a sound

I think

hehe

Wrong sound though

I think it's reasonable to ask to flash the orig firmware :) but I will be unreasonable, and not do that, I like coreboot too much!

I want to play the youtubes

elagost: well ok

elagost: so I'm a pest but I gave you some valid advice, cool

b move 8

hmmm. :/

ignore that :)

Chess is a good mental game

RhodiumToad, I hadn't seen the intro pages before. . . they're a good high-level chunk of info so start with.

CrtxReavr: to*

Indeed.

Well played

who can approve this: bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=271499 ?

Title: 271499 – porters-handbook/versions: missing entry for LLVM 13 for stable/13

I think doc@, but who is in doc@?

so waiting isn't a thing any more ?

So email glen and ask and send him a donation as well

Really puzzles me how this fuck is requesting 200k to work on freebsd

Wrong channel

mhm, 200k

The 200k

what channel was that intended for? O_o

#freebsdhelp on efnet

We don't do the Twitter hashtag crap on there

ah, and someone was requesting 200k to work on freebsd?

Apparently