This age verifcation is stupid I just said that im 103 so I can watch Doom videos what makes little timmy not able to do the same ?

./sigh

elivoncoder: sigh's

i wish they would bury age-verify in a concrete sarcophagus

thats better

elivoncoder: imagine if you had to get a commiter to place a file in /etc/ageverified

elivoncoder: sadly having people play with IT stuff with no real knowledge will always back fire

now if we get into this administration think it will be worse than the GPL thing

tbh i was hoping freebsd would be taking a firmer stance than our linux brethern

but i think at heart we all feel the same, keep the net open

i think we should limit or monitor young peoples internet access as theres some real weirdos out there the epstein stuff is a good example

however theres a better way than age verification

back in the 90's or early 2000's they wanted to introduce an internet passport, some kind of competence verification

Afterglow: we need that for a lot of things not just internet

true that

i just think of real life stuff thats age-gated, they always find a way

i can say the same with the freebsd cdc after being cursed and being told old and drunk and not one commiter engagged pretty much sums up how i feel about those things

whch is interesting becuase in order for me to get my bachelors in CS i have to take a class and answer questions

funny enough that site is down doesnt even resolve heh

but the system is broken is pretty much all aspects of everything

elivoncoder: some things can be bypassed just by changing your host to something outside the US

elivoncoder: oh but they want to ban VPN's

hence the sighs lol

elivoncoder: lets join #freebsd-signs

#general-sighs

#afterglow-sighs

lol, I won't join that one... almost weekend

i stopped caring about fridays and weekends since I turned 40

i can have a beer on mondays tues wed ... so why get excited when it's friday

:P

cpet truth, theyre all just days ending in y

or words that include day

provider will not update there backup servers to include newer cyphers

so I have to generate my normal kets plus a special rsa one just to please aging backups server :(

anyone want to test zenmap for me ?

there are free scanners you can use already?

been using zenmap since nmap was a thing

so what since 1996

nmap has been around for 28 yrs

elivoncoder: bz-attachments.freebsd.org/attachment.cgi?id=271039

i915 desktop users beware, after upgrading to from 15.0 to 15.1-RC2 i'm getting tons of GPU hangs that hard lock the entire system...there are a few bug reports about it

cullum: what is your setup? WM?

(so old that when I google for 'intel i910' the results are all for Intel core i9 10th gen.")

When I joined EMC in 2000, we were rolling out Dell Optiplex GTX100s with i910 chipsets as test clients by the hundreds.

This was right before rackmount servers became a common thing.

s/GTX/GX

sig`: im using KDE with wayland but according to bug reports people have also seen it with x11

also bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=295625

I'm using X11 still but no I haven't seen this issue

so I noticed that cgit.freebsd.org/ports/tree/editors/mg/Makefile claims that the "master site" for mg is hydrus.org.uk/downloads which is a 403. it seems likely that it's meant to be hydrus.org.uk/download.html; however, this page doesn't mention mg at all

(debian lists homepage.boetes.org/software/mg which is even worse as the server isn't up)

MASTER_SITE is just part of the url for distfiles hydrus.org.uk/downloads/mg-20241008.tar.gz seems to exist according to curl --head

isn't it extremely suspicious to pull a text editor tarball from a web site that makes no mention of being the home for said text editor?

nimaje: Yep. I just tested and it downloads fine.

Strangely enough, there's no pkg for editors/mg.

does anyone use fwupdmgr

So, perhaps there was a fetching problem before.

the plot thickens!

Oh. Wait... Yes there is.

I was searching the wrong pkg repo. Haha.

mg and mg-static exist.

gentoo pulls it from github

no one can agree about where mg comes from

The only github code I could find appeared to be old(er) than the 20241008 version.

You could pull the code and compare it.

"To complain bitterly about this site, email www⊙hou" tempting!

And, yes, there are many different sources with different versions of "mg". I have no idea what the "proper" source would be.

hm, according to cvsweb.openbsd.org/checkout/src/usr.bin/mg/README as of the year 2000 it was "currently" maintained in the openbsd source tree

hm, WWW links to the openbsd manpage and that of course doesn't contain information where you should get a release of mg from

that's the closest thing to a canonical answer I can find

not sure I should trust an editor that's so cagey!

what secrets are you hiding, mg?

Ah...

And here is where they migrated to the current upstream source: bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=245817&action=diff

Err.. Here: bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=274611 (didn't need the diff, I suppose)

Doesn't seem to explain how they came across this new source. But, says it's updating to the version in OpenBSD 7.4. So, perhaps that's where they got it?

The size of /var/crash should be ~size of memory?

Current is 19G, Dump failed. Partition too small (about 14331MB were needed this time). It needed 14G more? 64G machine. The latest that could ever be is 64G?

largest*

i blame those GFX card issue mainly due to old as hell firimwares

if the driver is expecting some specific firmware stuffs the driver will crash

i proved this by manually copying over recent firmware and my core 7 worked better than it did

but i still blame ek for my gfx issues

skered: not neccesarily mini dumps aren't

sometmes it only dumps the areas which were referenced not the full ram size if that was the case I would need 64gig for swap and well that aint happening

Hi, I’d like to ask something.

I’m currently dealing with this on Linux, but I’m curious how the equivalent situation would work on FreeBSD.

Suppose I have complete tar backups of the relevant filesystems/partitions — for example /, /boot, and /boot/efi — stored on an external disk.

Now suppose the internal laptop disk is completely destroyed and I replace it with a new one.

Would it be a valid recovery approach to install a fresh FreeBSD system on the new disk, let the installer create the partitions/filesystems, then wipe the contents of /, /boot, and /boot/efi, and restore my complete tar backups into those locations?

Would such a system boot and work normally afterwards, or would additional steps be required, such as editing /etc/fstab, reinstalling the bootloader, regenerating boot files, or fixing anything else?

yay back to dump and friends

that would work just make sure you preserve all the perms

not sure why you need to backup the whole system and not just the important parts such as /hme/user and /etc /usr/local/etc more than likey that all you really need

possible a dump of ports like i do

What about /opt where I do have my custom build-from-source apps, like The Lounge

But the real reason is that I don't know for sure what is importent and what isn't.

backups are tollored to the user

if thats part of your fs plan then yes back that up

the pint was there is no point in backing up everything when there is no need

anything that can not be easily replicated is what i call important

so my pictires of my dogs, my images of when my dog almost died when she had kennel cough my personal hacks to ports to include customs firmwares etc..

i wouldnt classify /opt/ as important as it can be replicated so i would just opy over the conf files

too me its easier to back up a few txt files than 45 gigs of stuff that doesn't really need to be backed up if you reinstalled the os why would you spend the time to restore it again ?

So, for example, the /var directory contains various caches and state files for installed applications. Are you 100% sure those do not need to be backed up, and that after restoring the system everything will still work as usual without them?

caches are recreated

chances are all that crap will be renegerated when you run it again

Yes... but... there could be a crappy app which is storing there something more important, you can't be 100% sure, can you?

most of the time you worry about your ~/.config

than /var/

i do a pkg info > backup then when I reinstall i do some magic for i in cat blah` do bleh pkg install $i

Yes, most of the time you do not need to back up caches. But what if you want to be 100% certain?

A real-life example: the IRC client The Lounge, probably the best one available right now, stores its SQLite database files in /etc/thelounge. They probably should not be there at all, but that is what it does.

why would I backup all that?

think I said above to backup /etc/ /usr/local/etc

in theory you should have installed them to /etc they should of been installed to /usr/local/etc as they are 3rd party apps

if you properly install custom apps

cpet: Ok, real-life scenario: suppose you have an IRC client like The Lounge, and you set it up on your computer as a system-wide service for all users. Then it should store its database files in… guess where… /var/lib. Now, if you don’t back up /var/lib, you will lose all IRC chat history from the past year.

you as the user should know

to me logically it would mean i need to backup /var/lib

cpet: and is that all to backup /var/lib? Or it isn't? Because I don't know 100%.

but if I was installing the loung locally i would install it to my home dir and not do linuxism by installing it to /opt

i have a copy of eggdrop and insppricd which are located in /home/chris

and znc

now

since I have znc installed would I backup everything no

i would backup ~/.znc

which would be backed up if i just backed up ~/chris

from my host system, i backup a handful of config files. i put thelounge in a jail, and I do snapshot and replicate that entire dataset, but i should probably more finely tune that, because there are only a few interesting files, like certificates, configs, and the sqlite3 db

why backups 23 gigs of useless crap when you can backup 3 megs ?

if I have 16 fossil repos cause I be damned that ll use git

and i have those 16 repos cloned

why would I backup those cloned repos when I can just backup the db's in /var/www/htdocs/fossil.unix.beer ?

really, i am only snapshotting and replicating jail datasets because I have space and don't want to spend time carefully backing up only minimal things. but in the event i need to recreate the jail, I'm going to retrieve the important items from the backup and just recreate the jail, insert the few relevant backed up items, etc. I agree that it

doesn't make sense to backup the entire pool in most cases

if I take those 16 repos thats alost 400 gigs of junk

while the dbs are like 67 gigs

scoobybejesus: ist the lounge some node stuff ?

yeah, it would be nice if it were just a static compiled binary. there aren't many alternatives out there

need to use yarn to install it, and then node to run it.

why would I run some node stuff vs kvirc or irssi ?

cpet: Because you could then use your favorite web browser - lynx - to be on irc with the lounge :-)

but im sure you can setup when db configs are stores

so theres more opportunity for supply chain attacks

rtprio: :D

I’m running it because I want a persistent IRC session hosted on my server that I can access from multiple devices (computers and phone) through a browser. It is basically a PWA.

you mist be < 30 ?

I didn't like ZNC when I tried it 10 years ago. But no, I'm almost 45. I arrive late to the command line world though

Soju is your candidate

A quick search suggests i'll need to choose my own client with using Soju, but otherwise, seems interesting... nice

i need to remeber that not everything just uses the computer at home

heh

scoobybejesus: For sure, but if you want a bouncer that is "just" a single binary, that's it

one of the reason why I dont like node or rusy or go

is the fact that it downloads precompiled packages from x site

and it is not uncommon for those to be compromised

so i do not use those

but you don't remove tracking parameters from links

ironic

oh tracking is fine though

also why copy google links instead of direct ones

cant please them all i guess

JurassCZ: If you're using ZFS now, just do something like this: it-notes.dragas.net/2024/09/16/movi…ng-freebsd-installation-new-host-vm

Snapshot and copy to a file, then, create the new install/disk and dump the snapshot on it.

You can snapshot to file on a scheduled basis and be ready for a root ZFS data dump back to disk at any time.

i dot think he uses zfs

but then again thats way to complex for a simple thelounge instance and a few configs

They're looking for direct disk backup/restores, though. That would be my recommended way.

Or, dump/restore. Whatever floats the ol' boat.

ek: are we even allowed to say dump ?

tar up all needed dirs and compress em ;)

I think so. I'm gonna go take a dump and think about it.

f451: why use tar when you can xz

ek: i am offended by that

That was the intent! ;)

tar czf $thing.tar pathname

thing

there is also newbie-friendly clonezilla

sorry

did f451do a thing

boot from it, use the defaults, boot from it again, use the defaults

amlor_: thats linux we dont want that

amlor_: I use Clonezilla via PXE for initial backups. It seems like it would be more user-friendly, but it's kind of not.

tbf i just make the tar and compress it with whatever

ek: it's more user-friendly than other suggestions tho

f451: like you should

cpet: who are "we"?

amlor_: one of us

we the people

us

you remind of of my instructor who got upset cause i didint address her by her pronouns

amlor_: The options are good and it works just fine. But, without knowing exactly what you want or what the clonezilla options do, it can be a bit overwhelming. The learning curve isn't terribly gentle. It'll take some reading.

ek: half the people here dont do that

I'm not saying Clonezilla is a bad option. Just that it's isn't already provided (3rd party) and also requires research.

ek: last time I said google it people got upset

and i think someoens even said thats not real help

and would rather have a human help

cpet: Yeah. Google it for them.

i did then someoens got upset cause I didnt take the tracking shit off

ek: people complain too much man

Haha.

ek: its free support so youll get whatever free provides and time is money so tkaing those tracking links off would make that help cost more than it should be

You get what you pay for?

JurassCZ, Please read wiki.freebsd.org/MasonLoringBliss/ZFSandGELIbyHAND with a mind to restoring from backup. Also please read forums.freebsd.org/threads/howto-freebsd-zfs-madness.31662 with a mind to restoring from backup and that verbaden's article is from 2012 but still mostly applies.

also in firefox it's easy: ctrl-u

mason++

f451: takes too much time man

ctrl-u ? lol!

will you pay me the 16 secons of time it took me to do that ?

Warning - the following instructions will ravage your machine and then eat all the food in your refrigerator, and unlike the dwarves, they won't be kidding about breaking your dishes.

thats just mean

nice to see a well made wiki page though

i should edit it and put an image of a dwarf breaking dishes

most of you guys run latest, or quarterly

latest

correction since someoens else got upset when I said we

let me rephrase

I run latest

haha was zfs consider madness back then/

still is

ek: yeah I don't disagree with you. there is easier such software, but it's usually proprietary

elivoncoder: I'm running latest on zfs on both personal servers

I was running quarterly on a thinkpad but switching to latest borked plasma'

also a couple of months ago I switched my linux desktops to zfs

did you borked those ?

I did not install freebsd on top of them so no :)

so you have Linux and FreeBSD ?

I tried running fbsd it on my gaming rig but the installer won't even boot

cpet: yes

my guess is that rx 9060 xt is too new for freebsd

i blame firmwares they are old and probably wont be updated any time soon

amlor_: next time try downloading the linux firmwares by hand

and hacking the ports

I'll keep it in mind

see if it works

if you have updated drivers yet old firmwares kind of useless

can you define 'installer wont even boot'?

i have a core 7 gen 14 server which would turn my screen into an inverted zelda theme

like, the stock installer wouldn't care about your gpu at all

it doesn't do drm drivers, it just drives vga or efifb

kevans_: im sure there was more too it than that

the bootloader menu is working, but kernel shits itself with a generic error right at the start

i'd love to see what that error is if you're open to trying to boot it again

I don't remember exactly what error it was but when troubleshooting it was appearing in wildly different situations and over the years

I'll try right now

i run thi desktop with a rx6550

trying to figure out when rx 9060 xt would've been added to amdgpu, because it could be that you wouldn't have functional drm anyways even if you did get it installed

but that's a separate fact frm the installer not booting, we're more than happy to do classic framebuffers

well, if I can believe google's AI summary (which I probably can't), we'd probably need drm from 6.15+

heh

if it has issues on Linux it wil have ssues on FreeBSD

img.amlor.at/zb2rhbvaEqhs1LSA97CQ94…1295d0d9c6be2e2c3e030a0cb93865c.jpg ah it doesn't even error out

just freezes

amlor_: when you see th system show the logo

press space bar

and type in boot -v

should show something before it freezes

ok

but one rule that I think people dont understand is dont run top notch HW on FreeBSD especially gfx cards

makes sense, but things like that never stopped me from experimenting

now im not sure why you would buy a 700 card and run bsd or linux on it as game wise both dont have that many games but i guess if you have money to toss

that is complete bullshit

i say the sae for those who buy a mac book and install Linux on it

proton covers pretty much everything I need when native options are not available

at least on linux

amlor_: why is it loading /COPYRIGHT? is this Ventoy?

if it takes more than 2 hours to make a game work with those wine front end things

i just boot windows

kevans_: yes, but I used a separate usb drive too

and ventoy does support 15.0

was it the same error with a separate drive? Ventoy is cursed in other ways

cpet: that is also bullshit

like, it overwrites /COPYRIGHT with its own metadata and does funky shit with that to try and boot

iirc

99% of the time the game runs out of the box

amlor_: that is utterly bull shit

and also no game is worth using w*ndows

cpet: dude I'm gaming on linux for decades now

think your real problem is biased toward prop software

nothing wrong with Windows

steam is proprietary and games are proprietary

windows is as well

that's the least of the problems of windows

I don't know why we are having this discussion like it's 2005 or something

that is utterly bull shit

I don't care if software is proprietary if it does what it's supposed to do and don't fight the user at every step

which is not true for windows

cpet: is it possible for you to be in this channel without starting a pointless argument with everyone who asks a question? it's very tedious when my entire scrollback here is just you arguing with someone

sorry, that's my fault also. I should not engage that

ivy: where were you yesterday when I was called an old drunk?

probably doing something productive

ivy: funny how its only when a specific time that something affects just x that soeones complains

I think some grass touching should happen

amlor_: ill get bored eventually

kevans_: tbh i was probably playing games on my Linux desktop. but that's still more productive than arguing with people on IRC :-)

what game?

yeah, i wish i would learn that lesson

:-p

ok lets make it interesting

lets take a vote

oh no

how many people want me gone vs how many people want me to stay

be honest now

count me in, begone

thats 1

i need 10 to make it count

i didn't say you should "be gone", i just want my entire scrollback to not be filled with <cpet>

like, if someone is wrong on the internet, you can just ignore them

wheres the fun in that ?

whats the point in a silent channel ?

cpet: the fun is that other people can use this channel besides you

nothing stops other people from chatting

cpet: i usually look at scrollback when i log in in the morning to see if anyone asked questions i can answer, that's much more difficult to do when the scrollback is just full of one person

so it's about you vs the actuall issue of me talking

i see ok

admittedly i had to stop reading the scrollback at least a few months ago... i don't recall exactly when, though

friendly reminder #freesd-social

typo

#freebsd-social

I thought I put cpet on ignore.

oh man, that was probably a fun conversation to read for people that do have cpet ignored

I did already! But he's evaded it by changing his hostname.

:(

And then he also said something transphobic... about an instructor and pronouns? It is not that hard to speak of people respectfully, but it does mean respecting, within reason, how they would like to be referred to, and where it doesn't involve absurd honorifics, that's within reason.

I had a nice convo with the dean about that

told her how am i supposed to know this if I didnt see anyting before I got an email responded that mentioned those

after that i got an apology email form that said instructor

but you have me on ignore so it doesnt matter any more now does it

Having an argument in the channel stops other people from chatting. It's the same if you walk into a room and people are arguing - you don't interrupt or engage.

rwp spet ek: thanks all, i have found probably the answer, the best and prettiest article on doing backup I've ever found in unix: debian.club/en/administration/backup

*cpet