ek: sorry for delay was cooking and "touching grass", it is Bug 295726 bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=295726

which looks to be confirmed, different steps and same result :)

voy4g3r2: Yep. Problem was confirmed. Now, time to find a fix.

so I finally upgraded my system from 14.3 to 14.4, nothing special. But now my host won't communicate anymore with my jails. Anything on the bridge can ping eachother and everything 'outside' the host, but not the host itself. Nothing changed in the configs of ipfw, jail.conf nor rc.conf (I diff'd this with configs from a year ago), so I'm totally at loss here.

things tried: reboot (twice), removed and added again the host interface from/to the bridge

Hrm, upgraded my rpi400 to 15 and now I have no console. Only kernel messages show up. :-/

Oh, boot_serial defaults to YES now .. interesting.

diving some deeper into the host-cannot-communicate-with-jail-vv issue, I found out that the jails tries to connect (to the saltmaster) by sending a SYN, the host responds with SYN-ACK, but that is never received by the jail. Although ipfw is set to OPEN, i've flushed the rules with ipfw -q -f flush (to have only one rule: allow all), but that also doesn't work

MAC_DO youtube.com/watch?v=dA-TNsVG9IY

Afterglow: try turning off hardware checksum on the nic?

rtprio, how do I do that?

and more important: is there something changed between 14.3 and 14.4 regarding hardware checksums?

sorry man, i don't have the changelog memorized

hmmm, I just switched off checksum checking, and indeed it starts working

ifconfig -rxsum -txsum bce0

i only mentioned it since it sounded like dvl was having an identical problem

rtprio: That sounds wild though.

I think we have enough evidence for a PR

I will test later today (Just going a $WORK update).

I would never think of this solution, thanks rtprio and dvl

dvl, let me know the PR once you file it, I'll add my experience

Afterglow: me file it? you file it. ;)

i've had them off on my bce/lagg vlan bhyve box forever, it didn't occur to me until i saw the toot

rtprio: was a restart required, or merely the `ifconfig` change?

just an ifconfig change

I suppose this isn't permanent, i.e. checksum are 'on' again after a reboot?

yeah, you can do it on the fly

ifconfig_bce0="up -tso4 -rxcsum -txcsum" is what I have in mine

disabling checksums enabled traffic to and from jails again, however now the jails have issues communicating with the outside world (other than the host). have to revert

how do you have your jail networking set up?

re0 -> bridge -> jail (vnet)

jail = plural

hm, why would checksumming on the outside interface affect networking between the host and the jails? that networking should never reach that interface only the epairs and the bridge

Afterglow: bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=295057

maybe that is related?

gonna have a look

oh hey it turns off txsum on the epair too

that kept me busy for a week+

nimaje: It's a cloned interface? Is that why?

iRobbery: I'm not using NAT. Just trying to find out which is the outgoing interface of a jail, is that the one visible from the host, or the one in the jail itself?

usually disabling it on the host outgoing nic does magical things for jail networking

Is it possible to get tab completion for `pkg install <package>` with zfs?

kevans_: it actually did, however after that my jails are not able to communicate outside the host anymore

just tried disabling txcsum on either and both epair interfaces, but that does nothing

ah okay not using NAT, i didnt have any issues with regular bridge use

Hund: how does `pkg install` tab completion relate to `zfs`?

dvl: lol. I meant zsh. :D

Afterglow: what about "ifconfig_bce0="up -tso4 -rxcsum -txcsum" ?

Hund: ;)

Potato, potato. ;P

what does the tso4 do?

Afterglow: perhaps rtprio knows

disables tcp segmentation offloading for ip4

dvl, nope

Afterglow: nope, to what?

again: disabling rxcsum/txcsum enables traffic from the host to the jails, however completely disables traffic to/from the jails that comes from other machines on the network

did you do it on just your primary, or also the epair

just the host NIC

wouldn't hurt to try both

just did that for all 15 jails, and indeed it works now: so -rxcsum -txcsum on the host NIC and all epairxa's

horray

yes, I wouldn't have slept tonight if this wasn't fixed ('work around')

getting Error 503 Backend fetch failed from lists.freebsd.org

f451: seems ok now

i'll try again - error was from 3 mins ago

ah it just loaded

ty

has anyone ever used a RS232 DB9 to USB serial cable before

ive been playing with it but freebsd sees nothing

nothing in dmesg, no usb device shows up even

serial server side is initialised and seems to work

yeap

i have 2 and I use it to have a retro connection to my freebsd machine 115 bause speeds

cpet: what should happen when I plug it in

I have bought a JCOM adapter to plug into a consumer motherboard

that has initalised fine on my server

I see /dev/tty0

dmesg should show some magic

/dev/ttyu0

for the server

and uart0 shows up under dmesg

I changed my /etc/ttys from /dev/ttyU0 (was using a ttl cable before) to /dev/ttyu0

and kill -HUP 1

so init reloads the getty

however when I plug a serial cable which came in the post today into the DB9 port, and plug the usb end into my laptop

no dmesg, no nothing

cant see a thing

you can use tmux as well

you have to boot the kernel to enable that

cpet: wdym?

I dont think you get the point

when I plug the cable (not the JCOM adapter side) into my laptop

dmesg sees nothing

think it's docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/serialcomms

scroll towards the bottom of page

I have read that one 100x mate

i would paste her but people complain about everything so

you get to read :)

cpet: you seem to still be talking about the server side

I am not

I am talking about the client

you connect to the console using cu or tmux

I have played with ttl cables, and serial before but this is the first time using a RS212 DB9 to usb cable to try to hook up a RPI to a DB9 cable on the server

however you have to set the kernel to set it up

cpet: no shit, please listen to me, there is no device, there is no entry in dmesg, there is nothing to signify I plugged in the usb side to my laptop

nothing at all...

echo "-P" > /boot.config

man boot.config

polarian: dont speak to me that way

i am trying to help you

sorry...

now you can go find your own ways now

cpet: the -P flag is for freebsd to output to serial

this is input as I keep trying to explain abov

above*

well I have a usb serial cable i make my system boot to the serial console then I use a client to connect to it

that client is tmux

anyways you dont want to discuss it further, and I apologise for the rude response. But I explained already I read the docs you were citing, and you just kept saying RTFM in a nice way.

cpet: but surely something should show up when you plug it in?

you said uart0 and such show

thats server side

serial console is as stupid as it gets freebsd isnt going to tell you you have a connection!

cpet: but usb isnt, so if a usb device pops up it should have an output in dmesg

unless what im missing here is that the usb connector is used but not the protocol

hmmm

what device is this

you cant just go buy any device and expect it to work in freebsd

you have to read up and investigate which are the ones that are specifically supported

okay so, server side I am using a startech JCOM adapter, which plugs into the 9 pin COM port on the motherboard and screws into the PCI mounts on the case. This provides a male DB9 port. I thought I had a DB9 serial cable, but it was male, and I needed a female one, so I bought one and it arrived today, I plugged the female side into the server, and then the usb into my laptop and then... nothing

thats what I dont get

cpet: tested it with a family members window device, nothing there either

sees no device...

in order for you to connect two devices together

you will need a null modem cable

they sell adapters at startech

ah that would explain it

and I already kinda knew this but I dont know why I considered this situation to be different

you can buy the cable or the adapter that you connect a rj45 cable to it

or you can return what you got and ge the USB null modem cable

i would invest in a IPKVM instead

cpet: actually this *should* be a null modem cable

I wonder if the manufacturer ripped me off ;p

i find it more obvious you bought the wrong thing

you need a serial device, the cable and some gender changers

polarian: are you sure you didn't just plug two null modems into each other?

cpet: you can get cables which are null modem with usb port attached to it, but what I think I have fell for is the good old chinese rip off

dont be ignorant everything is made in china

even your beloved iphone

cpet: I am aware of that lol

but its a common strategy to sell the wrong thing... a proper null modem cable is £40

from startech that is

if you are being cheap

then you shouldnt bother with this

i sent almost 100 for a cable

if you could link all of the parts you acquired that'd be useful

cpet: also why not KVM? because thats less fun!

kevans_: yeah will do

if I can find them again :p

kevans_: kind of stopped caring after he said "no shit" and then bashed my doc links

null modem flips tx/rx, so if you accidentally used two instead of 1 + gender changer then that'd do ir

i got the adapter and a rj45 cable that i switched to a null modem

probably way more than what he is expecting to spend

kevans_: startech.com/en-gb/cables/plate9m16 this is being used to plug into the JCOM port on the motherboard

now I assume you need to plug in a nullmodem adapter or cable into this

yeap

yeah I got bitten by buying the cheapest thing on ebay :p

I have been sent a through cable

I can probably bullshit my money back because they misdescribed the item :p

I wonder though

what if I plug it into this: ebay.co.uk/itm/306912809411

oh

literally sent me what I was going to send :p

xD

there are nice lower profile ones, too

and this is why I still goto the store

knowledge wise, the reason a null modem is needed is because you need to cross the rx and tx's right?

vs buying it online

cpet: cant in the UK

yeap

we sell fuck all irl

Zm7YrzChOx8YxLWjGUUysnOQ2dSG-o78Tpn7yqDhVOT4FkFoiLGCLYPBoCtZ8QAvD_BwE

we cant even buy thermal paste without ebay/amazon

holt sjit sorrt

holy shit, sorry

its fucking ridiculous

it makes me want to start my own tech store in London :p

and stock bits and bobs you need to pick up quickly, and you cant get without amazon

i herd horror stoeis when I worked off shore

thermal paste, screws for laptops and desktops (most hardware stores in UK dont go small enough) etc

all stuff u *must* buy online in the UK

and wait a week for it to arrive if you boycott Amazon like I do :p

sounds like rural US =)

like i said if you cheap out you gwt what you pay for

anyways cpet I am sorry for being pissy earlier, I got frustrated, I didnt mean to be a dick to you

kevans_: hah

polarian: people like you are the reason why I stopped helping people

nearest place for stuff like this is about a two hour drive for me (one way), which isn't great for just needing one part

i got most of my stuff at bestbuy

and I was surprised this USB serial port actually worked

cpet: sorry :(

you dont exactly listen to what people say though...

polarian: doesnt bother me heh your the one suffering not me

polarian: theres a reaosn why I get a disbaility check in the mail every month

oh wait, the closest down actually does have a best buy

cpet: :/

and you don't have to continue being a dick after they tried to apologize at least twice

in anycase im sorry, I am usually more calm but somehow you really managed to piss me off xD

i used to car when I would work and people would go I cant understand you and i would go and hang them a card

now i dont then dont understand me i just tell go talk to this other person

kevans_: who me?

no, cpet

im sure hell get over it

if you set the speed to 9600 itll scrool like if it was 1984

> knowledge wise, the reason a null modem is needed is because you need to cross the rx and tx's right?

yeap

you can make your own using rj45 cables

you can cut the wires and do some soldering

I did that with ttl cables

issue is, I didnt quite think it through when I full disk encrypted my server

and the only way to get output to serial from loader, is with a uart interface

thats what I was looking for

most people get encryption wrong

hmm I wonder if pcie serial cards pop up as uart

especially in a house hold

where the only other person using the pc is you

from the looks of the dmesg, it seems its acpi which presents the uart interface

so imma go with it must be provided by the motherboard?

if the mobo has a serial connector it will

or can you slap a pcie card and get a uart interface?

everything is run past acpi these days

cpet: mine does so not an issue, its just the header on the mobo needs adapting which I already did, I just fucked up and bought the wrong cable cause im a cheap bastard and didnt pay attention :p

you can

interesting

but if there is no driver support

yeah yeah

you wont get anything this is why you need to look at which cards are actually supported

and this is where apropos is your freind

fun with drivers

so using a through cable and a null modem is cheaper, but I wonder if its better to not cheap out and just buy the damn cable?

or do I cheap out again :3

i like building my own cable

but i would just buy the cable

tbf I have a second server soooooo

I buy both and see what I prefer

:D

for someone who has government payments, you seem to be very happy to spend money

any reason why ssh is not a valid use ?

my server infra is old hardware I have salvaged from broken stuff

cpet: because I dont want to boot a freebsd system, ssh into it, and then decrypt the main system

added headache

polarian: the cable adpater was like 45 bucks

thats like

1/2 of what I can afford to spend per month

thats what credit cards are for

...

pay 45 now pay it back next month

what if you cant pay it back next month

and that is how long term debt is created :p

then you shouldnt even have a server unning heh

cpet: servers are my life

a dark cold dusty room with lots of cables is where I thirve

and doing things the easy way is never my priority :)

thats pretty much 99% of hobiests

polarian: mine sits under my tv

polarian : cold? you need older hotter hardware. ;)

i blew up my radiator when I was learning to do liquid cooling

to be fare alcohol was involved while learning

dvl: well in the summer its boiling, but London winters can get pretty cold

and I like to keep my window open 24/7

so it can be lashing rain and 3C out, and i will still have my window open :p

polarian: People often forget how far north London is. Long summer days.

dvl: what? London is not far north unless you are from Brighton or something xD

cpet: maybe thats what im missing, should have cracked a pint of Guinness *sigh*

polarian: Not relative to the country. I mean relative to the rest of the world. There's still lots farther north. But most of the world population is south.

ah yeah

if you don't already have a null modem adapter and you don't mind trying to hack the cable around, seems fine? otherwise the adapters are reasonably ok if you don't plan on the cable moving a lot that often

I would live further North but their politics dont really go well with mine

and they dont tend to like foreigners

we used a lot of null modem adapters at $oldjob and slowly migrated to null modem cables for most of those applications, but that's because they were plugged into TVs and saw a lot of movement, which kinda fucked with them

I miss having a decent serial aggregator.

kevans_: the null modem cables cost a fortune though

its £30 at least ;(

thats like... 3-4 pints of beer :(

polarian: You can crimp one yourself cheaper.

a 20x500ml box of club mate is £40

if I threw in an extra tenner

I could have enough club mate for a month :(

yeah, i'd go for the adapter if that's a deal-breaker; you're not going to be replacing them all that often, and maybe never

mason: yeah im an idiot, maybe one day :p

kevans_: all I need is to decrypt my servers :p

polarian: Crimpoer will cost a little but it'll be satisfying doing it.

mason: welp maybe one day :p

right now I just need to get this done

Hi all, I have a question, mostly out of curiosity - there is command dump mentioned in the Handbook Backup section. I'm just curious, why would anybody used that instead of cp, tar or rsync, what are its advantages?

JurassCZ: you mean zfs send/recv?

you are going to need to be more specific what command you are referencing :)

polarian: no, I mean dump/restore commands. I know there is zfs send/recv, but I'm more curious about that old 70s command "dump", because it's in the doc.

JurassCZ: dumping and restoring is just exporting/importing zfs datasets iirc

what people usually do to backup is send/recv

this allows you to clone volumes between zfs pools

or to copy over snapshots

then if you need to recover, the snapshot can be pulled from the remote server to restore

polarian: yes I know they use send/recv, I know that, but I'm curoius about that ultra-oldschoold command called "dump" :D It's in the Handbook, it says "Use it for backups" :D

this is different from cp/rsync because it versions the backups

JurassCZ: oh then idk

sorry I misunderstood what you were asking

JurassCZ, The classic Unix dump command operated on file systems rather than files. That made it more like the zfs-send command in operation. More efficient.

dump was designed to dump a file system to tape. Writing to tape needed to be a streaming operation. Data needed to be in a continuous stream rather than file by file.

The other feature of dump is to incrementally dump data after the date of the previous full dump backup as an incremental. Again more efficient on tapes. Usually you would do a full backup say once a week and then six days of incrementals.

These days dump/restore is probably museum piece information having been replaced by other methods. That's why we don't hear about it very much.

rwp: Yes, that's what I've been thinking... but then, why it is in the FreeBSD Handbook written as a first option to do backups? You can do incremental backup with rsync. Also with zfs send.

Just for the sake of my curiosity, this command "dump" really looks like some museum backup tool, why it is still in the FreeBSD? :D

Like... I understand that FreeBSD is conservative... but isn't this "too much"? :-)

JurassCZ: i think you're underestimating how many users still deploy UFS

kevans_: I've read that it shall be somewhat good for UFS... however isn't the rsync still better, even for UFS? Actually, one can use also "tar" command to do incremental backups - isn't it still better than using dump?

depends on how you like to manage these things

some people like to use the nodump flag on files to exclude them rather than building exclude lists, for instance

Don't know how do you mean. With both, rsync and tar, I can do incremental backups. Just curious, what can be dump good for, even for that UFS. Trying to figure it out.

kevans_: hmm, ok, it sounds old and nostalgic so far

The point behind my question is that FreeBSD is supposed to have excellent documentation — or at least that is what I was told. However, I’m a bit surprised that the very first recommendation in one of the most important documentation sections — backups — is the dump command. :-)

i mean, depends on how you like to structure your backups, I guess; the handbook doesn't have to exhaustively document options, and it's good to document those that are unique to freebsd

you can go read about using rsync for things like that in a lot of places, no?

reading the section, i'm not sure i have the same takeaway that this is the thing we're recommending

rsync is third party dump is native. that is likely the rationale.

JurassCZ, rsync is NOT suitable for backup to tape. NOT. So no rsync does not replace dump for that situation.

tar is also file by file. dump is filesystem by filesystem and more efficient than tar.

rwp: Well... I thought that using the word "tape" is just historical residue. Who the heck is using tape nowadays? :D

We obviously have a ZFS community of users but we also have a community of UFS users who have been using the unix file system for decades and feel no need to change from that. They just have not experience the joy of zfs yet! :-)

I am sure there are still people using tape backup.

But even if not then dumping a ufs filesystem is still more efficient than tar over the files on it.

speaking of rsync, whats your opinion on the vs openrsync? are you switching

Unix is a workbench of amazing tools. It is up to the craftsperson to decide which tool to use at any given time.

answered my q quickly lol

we did a lot of work at openrsync at $work to make it more viable for production workloads and closer to the reference rsync

That was purely accidental but the sentiment is true regardless. :-)

s/at/on/

Before the vibe coding of rsync I would have said that the openrsync project is a fool's drain of resources to create a parallel effort only because OpenBSD does not like the GPL.

They are both free software licenses and neither will affect anyone who wants to use the programs.

Of course now we know that rsync is being vibe-coded at a high rate of change right now. So that has scared people into thinking rsync is going to get crazy.

I doubt anything bad is going to happen with rsync due to vibe coding as I assume that Andrew Tridgell is not going to let that happen. But we will see. No need to panic yet.

Having said that, it is often good to have two implementations of something. That allows A-B comparisons and a fallback if there is a problem. Both improve.

JurassCZ: tape is still a valid option due to the storage time

rwp: er, isn't Tridgell the main one using claude there?

so 'not going to let that happen' would appear to be false before you even wrote it

rwp openbsd has its own caled openrsync

kevans_, Not going to let rsync fail with bugs due to lack of oversight. Definitely using vibe coding. But I assume with oversight.

we published our version of openrsync here: github.com/klarasystems/openrsync -- kristaps has started reconciling the difference back into his version

Andrew is a smart guy. I doubt he will let his baby go bad letting the AI commit code changes without his reviewing them and agreeing with them.

to be fare I stay away from GPL

We can have the GPL discussion in -social after I have had lunch but let's avoid it here again. :-)

there is a hand full of GPL code include in base

dont see why it shouldn't be ok to talk about it here

there's almost no GPL included as of 16

rwp: Ok, so I've got the answer I needed. I assumed that using the word "tape" in 2026 FreeBSD documentation is refering also to modern HDD SSD. Now I see that Handbook is serious - heck they really saying "tape" and they really mean "tape".

almost no*

Using the machine learning tools to find bugs is happening at a high rate right now. It's going to happen either by us or by someone. That's why so many bugs are being inconveniently found now. Lots of patching. It's draining on people time to keep up right now.

nobody is using the gpl bwn phy

cpet, I don't want to do it now because I have to pee and I am hungry and am going to step away from the keyboard in a moment!

or the kcov stuff, utside of zfs

rwp: ok? we really dont have to know that you have to pee

and i only said that cause somoenes got upset when I said I have CKD

kevans_: everything in contrib is more than likely still GPL

absolutely not, no

diff3 and dialog are both replaced

cpet, I only said it because a) it's true b) I am only human c) I am not a robot d) it's really why I don't want to rathole down the same tired discussion that has been talked to death repeatedly.

rwp: lets talk about politics then

rwp: thats a good one

religion first, then politics, then the color to paint the bike shed. I am sure we will get all of those settled and done by end of day.

ill skip religion

how bout talk about it in #freebsd-social :)

thats just wrong

polarian: please join #freebsd-serial

actually

cpet: lol

theres a better way

funny

polarian: please join #freebsd-funny

if I do a find LICENSE or COPYING then grep for Free Software

should give me an idea of how much stuff is stull GPL

This is odd. I have two dhparam files, both created sept 22, 2021. One is accepted by nginx/openssl in 15.0, the other is refused for being "too small". Both are 4096-bit, but according to 'openssl dhparam -check' one has an unsafe prime and is missing a 'Q' value ..

there has been many changes in openssl cyphers have been removed

sounds about right to get errors like that after 5 years

Not if I add that they were created *on the same system* on the same date, using the same command (openssl dparam -dsaparam -out <file>). One is fine, the other is not.

Ltning: uh well time to reinstall

should of done this on the other server

Ltning: so how do you have more than one ?

kevans_: wiki.freebsd.org/ContribSoftware

So that’s funny — I never really figured out what dump is good for, and now I see that it really is meant for tape. And when the Handbook says “tape”, it actually means tape.

So dump is definitely not for me, since I don’t use tape. It looks like that whole Backup section in the Handbook is aimed more at server admins.

JurassCZ: dump is mostly used for UFS2 fs's

Common, you can use rsync on UFS, don't you think?

JurassCZ: if you use zfs, use snapshots. zfs-autobackup (in ports) is brilliant.

JurassCZ: think of dump like using Norton Utilieis or a HD cloning software

rysnc is basically just a comparision programs compares two folder to be the same

dump dumps your fs on a bit by bit

cpet: Arch linux guys like rsync for system backups. You can see directly the files, and you can do incremental backups as well.

cpet: this is incredibly outdated, yes

JurassCZ: what exactly is the issue then ?

you're free to accept my pointer to the GPL tracker or not, I guess. I do actually work on this stuff, though

kevans_: i looked at both and did some find magic and yeap there like only 2 items still gpl'ed

cpet: The issue is, that dump really is obivously for tapes :D And sometimes it can be seen that somebody says it's for UFS, which I think is weird claim, because for UFS (on SSD) you would be better using rsync IMO.

JurassCZ, If you are looking for a backup recommendation then I suggest using "pkg install restic" restic.readthedocs.io/en/stable

rwp: Yes I use restic on my debian server

JurassCZ: there is a command in tar for tapes and tar defaults to the tape device

interesting

ah a perfect example on a use of dump

Restic needs a little bit of wrapper around it and everyone does it a little different. I wrote this to describe how I do it: proulx.com/~bob/doc/restic-backup/restic-backup.html

If you are already using restic then it would be the natural to use for your FreeBSD backup too.

sbin/dump -0u -L -C16 -B4589840 -P 'growisofs -Z /dev/cd0=/dev/fd/0' /u

depending on how much your are backing up I like to create tar files then upload them

i dont like to have 3rd party stuff when the OS itself has a basic set to do this

I'll be at BSDCAN again this year!

nice!

cpet: Exactly! Could be better to use basic tools. And so... isn't it better to use tar on UFS? Why dump? It looks more complicated.

think you are making it more complicated heh

tar operates file by file. dump operates on the filesystem.

But anyway, machines are so fast these days. If you want to use tar, then use tar! tar is awesome!

cpet: But with tar you can exclude specific folders. You can't do thiss with dump. Also, isn't there higher risk to do dump on lifesystem than tar on lifesystem?

JurassCZ: freebsdfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Tapes-Not-Dead.pdf

JurassCZ: normally you wouldnt be doing dump on a daily bsis

cpet: Oook, but then, what would you be doing on daily basis?

(suppose you don't use ZFS)

tar

i only backup /etc /usr/local/etc a pkg dump and /var/* andin my case /stronghold

now some people like to backup everything i personally dont see a point

cpet: Ok, so now it get really confusing. Why would you do dump on e.g. monthly basis and tar on daily basis? You would be fine doing just tar only. Why mix it with dump?

now I have used dump to do a fs dump back when i used UFS as a quick way to restore a system that i messed up

I am curious about that too.

JurassCZ: nver said I use dump at all

Let's all just agree that zfs is the file system that everyone should be using now and move on. :-) :-)

Ok

if JurassCZdoesnt understand i dont see why we cant continue to talk about it

...

JurassCZ: you do you man

.

One smiley face says someone is joking. Two smiley faces says someone was jokingly trolling.

when it comes to libera i dont know really

im surprised you didint say please goto #freebsd-dump

Are you going to attack me now?

cpet: You have been just saying nonsense. That's all. You said "you wouldn't be using dump on daily basis but you would be using tar on daily basis". That's nonsense.

It's simply stupid.

why?

And now you attack me that I'm trolling

the hell

that was rwp

cpet: Because. I will not open this topic again.

not sure how using tar to tar up your home dir and other stuff daily is "stupid"

rwp: Thanks for sharing the restic blog.. a good read!

ibs, I am glad you enjoyed it!

"<cpet> JurassCZ: normally you wouldnt be doing dump on a daily bsis"

"cpet: Oook, but then, what would you be doing on daily basis?"

"cpet> tar"

cpet: So it was you not rwp. I suppose you are the one who is trolling.

well its a script if you must know

i tar up my home dir and other dirs

then send it to a backup server

then it checks on the last one and removes it

part of backing up is the fact that each person does thing differently

what you think is stupid to me is not using rsync or some other 3rd party app to me is stupid

just the joys of admining your systems

not sure how stating my opinion accounts to trolling

I suspect you are quite old guy already. Or drunked. Anyway, i will not start flame, it has not a point.

i only said that after rwp basically said lets move on

JurassCZ: dont insult me now

Please everyone run /topic and review it. Have fun, be civilized, respect each other.

cpet: i stand corrected- we still have parts of gnu dialog that get installed if you turn WITH_DIALOG on, need to see what's blocking removal -- hopefully we can get that done in 16.0, because the other two are rarely used

kevans_: dialog is there cause we still have dvp

which is the progess bar thing

or so the wiki says

kevans_: but then again im still tryin to figure out why im being called old and drunk heh

right, we have dpv but it's excluded by default at the moment

kevans_: when was the last time you used ipf ?

approximately never :-)

im not sure why we still have it

ive always said why do we have 3 firewall suits

Im using the apple magic keyboard on my desktop freebsd via usb, works completely fine except that the tilde/backtick key doesnt seem to be mapped right? im on wayland

well, two of them do actually make sense

on us-intl it gives me |\ while on us layout <

ipfw can do some things yet that pf can't, and probably vice-versa

seti_: i use a logitech pebble BT keyboard

kevans_: i was happy to see that netbsd npf now does user blocking

kevans_: didn't opie get removed ?

kevans_: I have access to wiki if you want to play with these pages ?

alright, fixed GPLinBase

dialog is replaced but we can't call it actually done until we rip out the DIALOG option

No utility in BASE uses dialog(1), dpv(1) -> dpv(3) -> dialog(3) anyway no component in BASE uses dpv.

FYI, did some measurement of tar vs dump speed, the dump is almost twice as fast, however you can't exclude folder with logs and caches, so it's more stuff to backup.

JurassCZ: weve moved on

ok

kevans_: i changed it to make more sense

:P

JurassCZ: you can exclude files by setting the nodump flag, can't you?

ivy: yeap

ok, that's true

bu thats only valid if you install freebsd on the limit of the FS

also, i believe dump can use UFS snapshots for consistent dumps, whereas for tar you'd have to set that up by hand

meaning / /var /tmp /usr /usr/local etc and setting nodump to say /var/log

cpet: dpv(1) is a little bit of a loss, but it's been off-by-default since 2023... 15.0 should have shipped without it, but I don't think I've seen any complaints

kevans_: i remeber playing with it and going whats the point should be a port

I'm guessing nobody else saw any complaints either, otherwise re@ would have probably dropped a mandate and flipped the option back on since it's low-impact

well, probably not re@ if the complaints didn't ship during the release cycle

ivy: man dump dont see any options for snapshots

cpet: -L

ivy: ah i see it now

ivy: i am getting to a point that I try to login to my servers and wondering why my password doesn't work then 15 mins later realizing i was connecting to server2 instead of server1

Add new libraries/utilities for data throughput visualization.

think FreeBSD-dpv should be changed to something like FreeBSD-vis as that is what dpv was origianlly for

kevans_: since when did dpv stop getting installed ?

it's too late to rename any packages unless the existing name is obviously wrong, the inconvenience to users is too high

dont changes happen in current first then MFC'ed to the others ?

could have a transitional package name?

cpet: that doesn't make a difference; the problem is we have to document the change in the release notes, then the user has to read the release notes, remove the old package, and install the new package, on every system where that package is in use. that's fine if there's a good reason for it, but if FreeBSD-dpv contains dpv(1), that doesn't seem like a good enough reason

so if 15.1 is already branched how would thos affect STABLE ?

a change like this would never be MFC'd to stable, it would be for 16.0-RELEASE

the releng policy for packaging changes is that they can be MFC'd if the new packages are in FreeBSD-set-minimal, since all supported installation methods will install the new package with no user action required

should really be a port

MelanieUrsidino: I do not know I was only mention it cause I was reading GPLinBase wiki page

SOmetiems I wish blockbuster was still a thing

netflix almost made it a thing with the mail order cd service

cpet: it would have been here: cgit.freebsd.org/src/commit/?id=389…026e70390ccfb99930ec6d71299dd2af780

kevans_: i was talking about dpv

yes, I am also talking about dpv

it's gated behind the DIALOG option: cgit.freebsd.org/src/tree/usr.bin/M…0390ccfb99930ec6d71299dd2af780#n196

kevans_: theres a big reason why I get that VA disability check every month heh

?

MelanieUrsidino: read up about the wiki pages

i realize i need to be a magician to run wine 32bit on freebsd 15 :D

(ghostbsd ppl do not answer irc or forums)

Are you saying they ghosted you?

solstis: did you read the wiki/docs

solstis: ghostbsd is kind of dead

actually let me double check that before im called a troll, or cursed at

can i change my repositories to freebsd ? after all the 'trying to run a program with wine' and ' wine: could not load ntdll.so: Shared object "libprocstat.so.1" not found, required by "ntdll.so"

what rogram are you running in wine

i have no progress with the wine situation and even now when i try "sudo pkg update' i get pkg: pkg.ghostbsd.org/stable/FreeBSD:15:amd64/base/packagesite.tzst: Forbidden

Unable to update repository GhostBSD-base

Error updating repositories!

well for one you do realize this is not #ghostbsd

i'm trying to install metatrader5

yes, sure :-(

accoring to wine it has horrible support for it

so I wouldn't bother

does it make sense to change my repositories (if that's the correct way to phrase it) to freebsd or better attempt a clean freebsd installation

and see if you can get it to work using Linux emu

ghostbsd is just a fancier way of installing and with a lot of preinstalled stuff

but since you are missing libs looks like a broken OS

usr/lib/libprocstat.so.1

In FreeBSD 15, is there a way to get ports or pkg to install the 32-bit version of libraries like libX11 on an amd64 system?

solstis: I would just reinstall

anth: nope i dont think ports supports that

you can run programs but you cant have 32 and 64bit packages

you can however run a 32 bit version of freebsd in bhyve and then use the VNC to login to it

not really a solution but it works

exept it's not supported in 15 any more, is it?

anth: 32-bit userland is still supported, only the kernel was removed

the problem is, iirc, we no longer build i386 ports for 15, so you have to build whatever is required yourself

which you can do in a jail

you will have to fix build errors as well

there should not be any build errors as this configuration is fully supported

(obviously, bugs may exist, but that applies to any platform)

hmm, although i'm not sure what ports people did about this, tbh

PCBSD did a good job in regards to that a pita it died besides being buggy as hell the idea was good

Granted, coming in late and haven't read the full history. But, lib32 is still very much available in 15, for sure.

you are not granted

that means compiling

something ek likes to do

ek: that doesn't necessarily meant we support building a TARGET=i386 userland for ports though... i think we do support this but i wouldn't put money on it

(imo, if this doesn't work, it's a bug, removing that would be too much disruption to users)

ivy: No, it doesn't. But, the option to build something that *CAN* build i386 is definitely available.

would be packages would have to be built or install 14.4

I'm trying to think of the last thing I built for i386.

.. using a jail or Poudriere or something.

I was hoping to do a quick test. It's been so long, though.

according to that 14 still has 32bit packages

ek: for 99% of users it's probably wine, because you need a 32-bit userland to run 32-bit windows applications, and *a lot* of Windows applications are still 32-bit

Very true!

this use-case is important enough that we can't just drop 32-bit ports

battle.net :(

(also, we still support armv7 which is 32-bit, so i really mean i386 ports here, not 32-bit ports)

but ever since steam crashed windows I have been using freebsd as my main machine

I honestly haven't run wine in... 15 years? Last time I ran it was to play "Plants VS Zombies", I think. Haha

jesus ek

out of all games

i ran wine when I was using some forensic software which was windows 32

worked fine

I don't play PC games, dude! It was just to pass the time at work while I was waiting for huge cron jobs to finish.

we really should have ports just build/install lib32 packages for every port, like Linux does it. but given how fucked ports is in general i have less than zero interest in trying to make that happen

thats harsh

(obviously this could be a make.conf option for people who don't want that)

a freebsd commiter has called "freebsd ports fucked"

?¿

ivy: Amen! Getting ports sorted out right should be a higher priority. But, it's going to take a lot of work. :(

How is ports fucked?

MelanieUrsidino: ask ivy

cpet: it would be a mistake to attribute any special significance to my opinions. they are worth the same as anyone else's opinions

ivy: i was called a troll earlier for talking about dump

so welcome to the game

but as an example, look at subpackages. "what are subpackages?" you ask - yes, exactly. we had this 99% done years ago and it was never finished because of some poudriere issue that was never fixed, so no one can have subpackages

cpet: But... but... You *ARE* a troll, technically speaking. It just so happens that this time you were not trolling. :D

and, as it happens, lib32 packages would be a perfect application for subpackages

ek: if you say so man

Haha. You know I'm just poking fun.

ek: you better

ivy: Yeah. Sub-packages were looking great a while back. Was hoping for that to come to fruition. But, alas,, no dice.

A bummer.

i dont think there are that many 32 bit unix word apps

besides a few like zsnes

but the creator ported it to amd64

hwever no source

i wanted to play with it so i submit a port then have someones it was already submitted like my fceu port from like 2003

Bah

flah

brah!

harb

There we go.

I've gotta try to port this zmNinjaNG/Zoneminder stuff to FBSD. This Ubuntu "requirement" is killing me. Completely unstable.

Like, frustratingly unstable.

zmNinjaNG? did you accidentally paste your password?

Nope. That's the project.

zm ninja new gen

get with the program

I am hoping ek doesnt have passwords like that

the ZM notification server (Ng) and zmNinja (Ng).

Haha. I do not.

and if ivy thinks thats a pssword i think i can question her secueity a bit

:P

zoneminder?

the cctv / nvr ?

rtprio: Yes.