15.0 is now 15.0-PRERELEASE

yay!

ivy: Is pkgbase going to be the default for 15?

Hm, here's a clue: forums.freebsd.org/threads/freebsd-…-15-with-rust-pkgbase-and-kde.98695

The thread is... interesting... in that the traditional way to upgrade is to build or to unroll new tarballs, with freebsd-update being a somewhat nonstandard middle ground.

I'm sorry to have linked that thread. Should have read it first.

Hm, still a few months to go. I should experiment with pkgbase in advance: freebsd.org/releases/15.0R/schedule

mason: interesting is an interesting choice of word haha, it's just plain weird

(a page later) this is why I stopped using forums about a decade ago I guess

hi, I want to say that there is new channel #odin-lang for interested in Odin programing.

sorry for spam

Programming with a hammer :-)

Hi

can someone sell me on freebsd

williamstoner: yes, you can

like why would i use it instead of debian surrounder

to have a real OS instead of a hump of 3rd party packages lumped together

Tenkawa, forum was fixed

wouldn't third party software that have been tried and tested be just as stable tho?

no.

linux is a mishmash of software from disparate sources, duck taped and tied together by the distro

freebsd is shipped as one OS. the core OS is a single unit created and distributed by the same team

williamstoner: FreeBSD has a handful of Pros and a few Cons

third party stuff is then installed on top of that solid rock of a base system

freebsd should give you confidence that you can't break the base system thru farting around with third party software

mason: I can tell you one thing don't do "pkg remove -a" with pkgbase going, it will take out your core pkgs too right now, leaving you with an unusable system that needs a fresh install ;)

i think one of the mailing list posts just nailed it

Demosthenex: well, that is what I and a few other folks have done recently ;)

this seems to be about making a smaller base image so containers and embedded can pick and choose

but then they want third party pkgs to PULL deps from the base OS that aren't installed

well, I'm hoping before 15 is released with pkgbase they iron that out

so they want to force the core to be packaged, so third party can trigger installation of core pkgs

i'm all for minimal OS footprint, but... i don't like the idea that third party packages can have ANY impact on the base

Yeah, that is why it caught me off guard when I broke my box that way

didn't expect that to be a problem, found out the hard way

anyone tried Dragonfly BSD?

yeah

Does it have ZFS?

no, hammerfs

that's right.. forgot about that

I've honestly never even booted it up in a vm

what's the difference in all those BSD distros if they all have the same package manager?

the software

williamstoner: the OS and the third party packages are separated

nvm, i read that again :P

can you give me an example

you meant they all use pkg, as opposed to deb or rpm?

yeah

williamstoner: why is suse different from redhat? they both use rpm!

surrounder: that's fair but 99% of linux distros are just fork of others with different configs. But, for example, debian and arch are way different

so are opensuse and fedora

so are openbsd and freebsd

but they build their packgaes differently and have different defaults

I mainly don't understand the question of 'selling' an OS to anybody

just give it a shot and form your own opinion

yeah surrounder you are right but i tried once and i got some weird error during install and then just forgot

so try again?

very easy with virtualization around everywhere

i will definitely

"give it a shot?"

that's very loose criteria

OS's should be chosen by features and requirements

i require: third party software can't screw up my OS. ZFS with boot environments. no systemd. reliable upgrades.

access to most common OSS packages is a plus

also 'pkg' is different utilities on freebsd vs. open and net

«third party software can't screw up the OS» requires third party software to be run in containers.

no. / vs /usr/local is enough

i like the philosphy of freebsd i just dont know if taking the time to figure out the issue during the install is worth it instead of simply sticking with debian

"figure the issue during the install"?

Demosthenex: i tried installing freebsd on my laptop and got some weird issue with the sdhci driver that wouldnt let me go further

i made a post on reddit about that because i couldn't understand what it meant and i was told to blacklist the driver with a command on the terminal

but the command returned unknown command lol so my freebsd journey ended there

ah. yeah, freebsd hardware support is where linux was a decade ago

i'm rather used to debugging those driver issues. laptops tend to be... finiky

you might try on a desktop or vm first

found a way to completely wreck my server's MediaWiki performance: just run `find` and arc_prune shoots to 100% CPU, making every php-fpm process go crazy on I/O waits

oooooh this explains weird spikes at 03:00 when periodic scripts run

I think they include find

CPU: 2.6% user, 0.0% nice, 41.4% system, 0.1% interrupt, 55.9% idle

You're thinking is correct.

and that's not the lowest hahaha, it was 83%

in system

locate rebuild, finding suids

why can't ARC just take more memory, I do not get it

Mem: 4112M Active, 18G Inact, 3486M Laundry, 4861M Wired, 136K Buf, 681M Free

and this is on 14.3-RELEASE-p1

why does it need more

hiall, is there a way to get interactive loading of rc.conf/loader.conf during boot?

i seem to remember being able to do this, but can't find it anywhere.