Whee, my T420 upgraded to FreeBSD 14.3 and there's no more X on it.

oxbar: 99% of the window managers that work on linux / x11/ wayland work on freebsd I'd say.

most are in ports/pkgs and others can be built from source.

mason: you likely need to build and install /usr/ports/graphics/drm-61-kmod from source

OR, as some have done, use the new kmod repo -- I've no experience with that method though, so can't recommend it

hello! i wanted to look /dev/mem to find my motherboard model and i ended up finding my searches, bitwarden passwords, znc messages and other things from past reboots. is there a way to clear memory on boot?

correct me if i am wrong but it doesn't look like the free implementation is clearing memory, which might be a vulnerability

essentially: `cat /dev/mem | strings | less`, scroll down for a while and you'll find information that should have not stood in memory

SponiX: Ah, thanks. Looking at some options.

mason: you get it going again?

SponiX: Nah, going to try OpenBSD on the box. Been years.

Was a coin flip between that and Alpine.

I've heard that the Desktop Experience on OpenBSD is pretty nice

SponiX: But yeah, Intel graphics, so I think you nailed it.

I've never used OpenBSD for more than a little bit. And really don't plan to

got a nvidia card rn, next card won't be nvidia tho. too hostile

prolly getting radeon

But whoever was speaking to me about its Desktop experience said it is good because most of its developers actually Daily it as their Desktop OS

ya imagine that

My FreeBSD machine is using an AMD RX 5700 card

My Linux box has the 9070 XT

good fbsd support?

I gave my 4070 Super to my oldest son for his birthday

RX 5700 is well supported with FreeBSD yes. the 9070 XT isn't even close to having FreeBSD support yet

sometimes it feels like staying with fbsd is a losing battle. always behind, ever more fringe

behind on current/modern hardware support, probably. But I feel FreeBSD has strong points that still make it a good choice when possible

best hosted email providers? want to be able to use my own domain and pay a small monthly fee for each mailbox, with unlimited aliases. (don't want/need wildcard) need rock solid and secure. using tucows/opensrs atm but done with them

tucows still exists!?!?!

ya lol

fastmail?

have you actually used fastmail or just know it's an option?

I use it, have done for years

$5/mo is too expensive

tucows charges like $.25/mo/mailbox. free aliases

You are expecting a quality service for less than $5/month USD ?

tucows is good except for the stupid mandatory pw expiration policy

so yes

you're saying, pay 20x more than you're currently paying. i'd pay $1/mo/mailbox but 5 is absurd

alo, i have a silly opinion question whilst slightly inebriated. 4 srs tho.

i have some e-waste, and it's been quite a while since i've admined on any BSD, szo im thinking of slapping something on there and using it as like a DNS or smth stupid

if i do, any BSD should work? wondering what i should use it for, something silly

it's not really suitable as a file server, only like 120 GB or smth

tl;dr gimme silly suggestions to what to do with my e-waste, it's super low power so i don't mind leaving it on

demido: you claim to want security, and your number one complaint is password expiration?

1990 called...

good time

Matt|home: it could do DNS caching for your LAN

the unbound that comes in the FreeBSD useland works well for that

aight. let's see what version we're up to

FreeBSD release is on 14.3

damn we sure came a ways from version... 12.1 ... ... lol.. jesus fuckin christ

GOD DAMMIT MICROSOFT, SEE THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT. _this_ is how you do version control you sons of bitches :D

a dedicated support lifecycle button, clear version numbers printed :D im waiting for the inevitable "windows 12.a" drop or something :p

it has taken a while to make unbound actually wor out of the box

seriously i am legit surprised, freebsd 12 was a /while/ ago, at least from what i remember

without the need to fiddle with it

but it is unice to have when t works

like 20+ years ago

what's unbound? i'll google.

oh they made DNS easier hopefully. i remember setting up BIND was a nasty bitch

its a local cached DNS service

included in freebsd

i personally hate it but once its confired correctly it does speed up DNS queries

well that's useful at least

also i wanted to set up a web crawler or some kind of mini search engine at some point so i can filter for the queries i want

that's.. gonna be a while though :D

i use it as a way to block ads

but i guess having my local DNS might entice me more

well there's a valid fuckin reason right there

i like duckduckgo

how successful are you with it, can you just completely ignore youtube ads without the ad blocker?

not sure why you would need your own but ok

mildly drunken musics, dwb them

no youtube ill stop working right if you block ads

but theres 3rd party services or alternative to youtub

e

ublock origin on my desktop has worked perfectly fine

youtube has made it hard for ad blockers to view videos

so far

mobile, no chance in hell. but on windows desktop? 100% success

that's win10 specifically

i still get youtbe bitching at me that I use an adblocker

what browser?

& os?

but it until it actually become an issue ill search for the 3rd parties

Mac OS 15 and Firefox

uBlock Origin still works really well

might be the mac itself

the system next to mine which is cmpiling current right now runs freebsd

which would suck

I actually have YouTube Premium or whatever though. So, I can't confirm ads or not, as my account doesn't get them from YouTube anyway

i will never buy youtube premium

that includes rent and groceries -_-

its not worth it i would rather buy the CD for the bands i like

tehpeh what's the difference between masked email and alias on fastmail? read the kb but they seem the same except masked is automatically generated. mind if i pm you since it's not on topic?

think its the same just worded differently

I also still using uBlock Origin with my Chromium/Chrome sessions

proton offers a similar service

cpet: I'm on 15 as my daily driver

reminds me though, I really should reboot sometime soon so my userland and kernel are in sync

i would just love it if i could use that laptop to directly control my light switches and ovens and stuff.. i know most people hate smart houses for good reason, but 4 srsly i want a house that moves & does stuff and is cool and stuff ;_; like w robot arms and automation and stuff dammit :< so why can't i safely hook up my laptop directly to the mains power signal and do a manual conversion ;_;

SponiX: main system is a mac mini my other system is freebsd current

Matt|home: i chose not to buy a smart thermosttat for a reason

the key to make current easier to work with is adding the PORT_MODULES=

.. i can't imagine what that reason is, you can directly use the thermostat's internal pressure itself as microcontroller signals quite easily

at least i think you could

i dont like the remote sense my portable AC does it and i immeditely disabled that

IoT is the most insuecre crap you can have on your network

well like i said i don't blame people for not wanting them

but c'mon.. surely we can engineer something cool and that works properly without it being a serious issue

i want my cool robowife when i come home so we can chat about cooking and complex socioeconomic topics ;_;

im all for that

but the secueity is what gets me

so much that i cant spell it :P

how about remote controlled light switches, any prbs with those?

like LED lamps or strips or whatevs

same as above

really those are security risks?

i personaly dont trust all that

mh. i'd have to weigh convenience vs that

even thiugh I did have a remote switch for my xmas tree

but when you have a device with a default password of Password

you question

now as much as it nice to have a remote thermostat

i personally don trust them

now you cn change the password to something more secure

but there also the cost

public-files.gumroad.com/q4m2mh7qc618rkku3mpaanx6phzr <-- aww :D also rofl jesus fuck what a contrast :D

the thermostat i got was 99 vs the same one that was smart capable was 199

Matt|home: robowife lol

scottpedia - i am of course, referring to a rather beloved old disney original film of mine, smart house

so i programmed it during the week from 8am to above 5pm is 70F 6pm to 7am the temp is 68F

... seriously i don't care, that shit was made in the 90s and i friggin want it ok :D

for me it works fine

now if i could aford tose walk in thermostats where the AC will only turn on when it detects movement

well

fuck the remote ill go with that

you don't want a robowife to turn into a robocop if you talk about unorthodoxy stuff Matt|home

scottpedia: its the new age man

or robofed which is worse

hang a girl thts in the law enforment isnt that bad

you guys ever watched the 6th day?

yeap

back when they made deent movie

Arnold was just being himself

before he beame a politician

probably would of been a reat president as well

great

was he born in the US?

nope

he couldn't run for POTUS right?

nope

anyone could do a better job than this current one

but i guess this is more for #politics

DJT?

I've been in self-induced medio isolation for more than 5 years straight

yeap

lets just say i dont agree with a lot of what he is doing

but not enough to go out a riot

US is still better than the other five eyes

*four eyes

yeap

kind of why I dont do any of that hah

at least RMS still fully lives on cash

but anyways I won't want a robowife

not any sort of *wife

nor robo*

one thing i hated about this network

the whole stay on topic bs

#freebsd is still on the liberal side of things

but i blame scottpedia for that

half of #politics was mod. just imagine that.

after realsing the death of 2 politicians

shit dont surprise me

what two politicians?

in the US?

look at the news man

hartman and her husband = deceased

#freebsd-social is right over there ->

mason: #freebsd-mason is right over there as well

go talk to youself

scottpedia: you can msg me if you want so we dont upset mason

cpet: Don't be belligerent. You know the guidelines as you just quoted them yourself.

he gets upset quick

right

let's go PM cpet

yeah het gets upset quick

Not upset. Just reminding the toddler where to go.

yeah he got upset

cause the channel is dead but you know still stay on topic

scottpedia: always add something freebsd

so this still makes it freebsd related

this way mason doesnt get upset

so theres some shooting in x , but freebsd jails are cool

cpet: For me being the one upset, you're struggling to get off the topic. Shoo. :P

see still related to freebsd

hmm

mason: eww

do they get sent to freebsd jail if convicted?

How about that Fork for X11 ?

mason: for the person who managed to say no one cares about veterans i can see where it comes from

as i know SponiX will back me up on that

why is there a jail if freebsd is "free"?

man jail

its more of a function

a better a hard core chroot()

I know. I was joking.

thats just mean

does anyone ever escape from a freebsd jail?

xlibre looks promising

you cant

okay

if you excapre from a jail the jail isnt doing its job

same goes for chroot

however you can give the jail more reedom if you look at sysctl -A|gre jail

grep

cpet are you drunk rn? never seen you so mouthpoopy

and just because a leftist terrorist killed those politicians it doesn't mean all leftist are violent terrorists

nver said that

okay hortman not hartman

k

and im not that drunk ;/

demido: do you understand the psychology of modern l**tism?

scottpedia: say it as it is man

surely youll upset mason but hell have to deal with it

the guy called me a monkey some time ago

who?

for a reason I didn't understand

demido cpet

demido: that is pretty odd.. the left is normally against weapons and are peaceful.

if I called you a monkey i would remeber

hah

does port have a CLI excel equi ?

nopw

nope

scottpedia: ?

cpet: Why are you highlighting me for this? Go get yourself some help, please.

cause you are the only one who is constaly saying to stay on topic

no oe else seems to mind

not to mention you disrespect me and SponiX military service

which made me dislike you

shall i go on i have more?

mason - i haven't bothered readnig the scrollback(too drunk for that) but if you're gonna admonish cpet for being off-topic that also applies to me too, i didn'tk now there was an active social channel

but shall remember

Matt|home: no no you keep on your topic

youtube.com/watch?v=ol0Jf2KqBdY this is amazing :D

Matt|home: hah

i kind of enjoyed that movie

"kind of"

demido: yeh that's how I read it, masked is auto generated and non-identifiable. PM away!

which slack-client are ppl using when running freebsd as workstation/desktop ?

the web browser one?

TommyC: with chrome --app-mode ?

I have always use the slack-client

no I always just used Slack through my browser

TommyC: oh, I have always used the client, maybe it´s just habit..

That's how it is for me too.

 

 

I'm having trouble with PCI passthrough. I'm able to make the device ready using devctl, but adding a pptdevs line to my loader.conf doesn't seem to have any effect. Is there some step I may be missing to get this device to configure at host boot time?

Zerock so the device is not loaded ad ppt in pciconf?

correct

I'm trying to pass through the integrated GPU, in case that is relevant

and also to be clear I have successfully passed it through to the VM. I just can't get the device to load as ppt at host boot time.

Zerock I've never done that, but how hard could it be? are you using bhyve or vm-bhyve something else?

yes, vm-bhyve

ah I see. can you show me your `vm passthru` output and your loader.conf?

yeah let me reboot so I can get what it looks like right after boot

Zerock 👌

vm passthru: 0x0.st/86Qe.txt

loader.conf: 0x0.st/86Q_.txt

I'm trying to pass through vgapci0

Zerock your config looks 100% correct.

I assume the issue can be that, it's being loaded much earlier than pptdevs is being parse and run. Lemme check the docs and source.

yeah that was sort of my thinking; that the display is loaded so early that it's breaking something

you can blocklist vgapci I think

Zerock what commands are you running to convert vgapci to ppt?

devctl set driver -f pci0:0:2:0 ppt

on one end, I want to suggest "how about you add that code into /etc/rc.local" and on another end I want to find the root cause of non-ppt'ing during boot.

let's wait for the Americans to wake up, they might have an answer :-)

right yeah I can do a hack to just run that command at boot (though making sure it runs before the VM starts is not something I know how to ensure) but I am troubled that the standard way is not working.

I am American ;)

I AM NOT WAITING FOR THE AMERICANS, SKYLER... I AM THE AMERICAN!

:)

Which is the recommended jail manager when it comes to customizability, flexibility and active development/maintenance?

andreas303: base system is quite usable

mason: Hmm, you mean not using a 3rd party jail manager but creating and maintaining it manually?

andreas303, There isn't ONE recommended best manager. All of them are used by people. Sometimes people don't use any manager.

I have no basis of comparison, but I have had an easy time with bastille

rwp & Zerock : I see. OK, I will read about how to manage jails manually and maybe try Bastille.

When I started learning jails I wanted to know the details and so I didn't use any manager and just ran the low level commands. And that has continued to the current day because for me the commands in base to start and stop jails are sufficient for me.

In the end you have to try things and see what works for you and whatever you end up with will by definition be what you like using.

wrench: OK, yes, you have a point there.

For people who are using jails, maybe aggressively is not the right word but, aggressively then one of the managers that takes care of the many details of ZFS datasets, snapshots, cloning, then has better benefit. Then bastille, iocage, (and the related vm-bhyve), managers make a lot of sense.

Hi. Is anyone using bastille for jails? I'm in the process of upgrading my jails from 14.1-RELEASE to 14.3-RELEASE but the bastille documentation is (apparently) faulty - the commands they list in the docs are not accepted for thin jails.

All of this talk about jails lately makes me want to investigate them :)

Alver: I recent upgraded from 14.2 to 14.3 without issue.

recently*

Just as a hint but though #freebsd is okay that there is also #freebsd-jails for jails specifically.

there is also #bastillebsd for bastille-specific help

I'll just mention as I pass afk that jails are containers and FreeBSD implemented the first containers with commits to support jails in 1999 which predates the container work done in the Linux kernel. And then I am away so sorry if people want to refute and rebut that information. :-)

Zerock: thick jails went fine, but the thin ones I don't know how to handle. The commands at docs.bastillebsd.org/en/latest/chap…grading.html#minor-release-upgrades refer to 13.2 still and don't work.

what issue are you seeing? I upgraded a thin jail

My advice is that disk space is cheap so only use thick jails until you really know you want thin jails.

Zerock: the docs mention to stop the jail first. If I do that, the next command complains the jail should be started. And if I start it, it complains it's not a thick jail.

It also refers to bastille subcommands that don't even exist anymore.

hmm

what bastille version are you running?

0.10.20231125

consider upgrading... I'm on 0.14.20250420

... ah, heh. The docs are about a NEWER version.

Odd.

Why would that package not be up to date if the base OS supposedly is

maybe your pkg config is messed up

or maybe you manually installed an older version and it is earlier in the PATH

Zerock: looks like it was just behind for... god knows why. But it advanced a bit further at least, thanks.

Now it's barfing on: Failed to build etcupdate tarball "14.3-RELEASE.tbz2".

Zerock: boatload of PEBKAC (and massively confusing and inconsistent behaviour between bastille versions), everything a-OK. :°)

yay

when you install xorg you should be able to startx right if no login manager is present correct ? or is there an extra step ?

oxbar: Hm, presumably startx is there, but I always just turn on xdm in /etc/ttys.

oxbar, Yes. But you may or may not need to install and configure other certain things. I don't recall everything I must install but I install xorg and for my hardware I must install drm-kmod and I think that installs gpu-firmware-kmod as a dependency.

And then for my hardware I must add radeonkms to /etc/rc.conf kld_list variable to load automatically.

And *then* xinit will be able to start up The X Window System.

However right now in 14.3-RELEASE the precompiled binary driver pkgs are out of sync with the kernel. So as of last Wednesday one must get a newer driver. Which supposedly is available, see "man pkg.conf" and look for the example at the bottom. But that support is very new and it did not work for me, likely pilot error on my part here.

Dam

For my laptop it is all the same except s/radeonkms/i915kms/

At the moment I am holding at 14.2-RELEASE until I get just a few moments of time to figure the driver problem out. Other people have it working no problem though.

Hmm

Thanks rwp have to go to the doctor will figure it out when I come home

oxbar, docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/x11 covers what needs to be done to set things up fairly well. The only gotcha right now is the 14.3-RELEASE driver ABI version mismatch problem.

which should be solved by the kmods repo... i believe that's now enabled by default since 14.3

Heya, I have a long and maybe stupid/noob question. Nix is quite popular, partly because it allows you to decoratively config a system and deploy it to a machine. I don't like how it creates essentially a meta-abstraction over the system and adds so much complexity, at the same time it's a very nice way to build a reproducible system. So my

question: I'm curious if you could instead use zfs and thick jails to basically setup your system completely locally, optionally use `zsd` to diff and rollback changes. Then when you feel that system is ready "commit" the changes by creating a snapshot and use `zfs send` to basically deploy your system to your server.  Would something like that

be possible in Freebsd?

ivy, Maybe. It isn't for me. But... "man pkg.conf" and there is now a new example that Alex added to the man page with the quarterly kernel modules repository configuration. Presumably that works for people. I added that to my system and removed and installed the new packages but it did not result in a working graphics for me. My X still crashes at start. Fortunately not a kernel panic this time.

mccd, Yes. People do that. Let me look up an old reference that would still be applicable.

I think you could do it in zfs or ufs

take your pick

mccd, Look at forums.freebsd.org/threads/howto-freebsd-zfs-madness.31662

That posting is only 13 years old now and it is still applicable! :-)

rwp amazing thank you

Note that in the intervening years some things are easier. Now you can directly ask bectl/beadm to mount a file system cloned boot environment obviating the need for the manual jail configuration in the rc.conf file.

Also the area around the IP assignment needs to be polished up somewhat as the base system will already in the rc.conf of the jailed system clone. But these are easily handled and does not affect the overall concept.

With this system either the default BE is left behind or must be brought forward and that is not discussed in the posting.

rwp: should uninstall drm-kmod switch to main then compile it ?

oxbar, Let me repeat that I don't have it working for me (making me a poor reference) but other people say it works for them. With that warning let me hint that the pkg module version will match the kernel when things are working correctly.

For example on 14.2-RELEASE "pkg info | grep 1402000 | less" will match installed packages with a matching version. For me this includes many gpu-firmware-radeon-kmod-* drivers.

If you upgrade to the newest 14.2-RELEASE then those are the pkgs that should be updated to a 1403000 version. And then things should work. (Maybe I will work on this tonight...)

there may be an issue that pkg sometimes chooses the wrong repository, i don't remember if this is fixed yet... if not, 'pkg install -r FreeBSD-kmods drm-kmod' might help

ivy, Maybe. But when I "pkg info | grep 1403000" it appears as if I have gotten the matching version. It appears to me that the kernel ABI is still mismatched between the kernel and the pkg.

rwp: what's the error you get when loading the module?

My actual plan is to build both the kernel and the graphics driver together on the same system and then that should work because both would be compiled from the same interface.

ivy, (EE) Failed to load module "intel" (module does not exist, 0)

Though the files do exist on disk.

I am thinking that the ABI doesn't match and therefore they are ignored.

that sounds more like an X.org problem

Actually I am also getting that line in 14.2-RELEASE which is currently booted and X is running okay. Hmm...

do you see the drm-kmod module (not sure what the intel one is called) in kldlist in 14.3? if so, it's probably not a problem with the module, if it loads it should work

ivy, The bad thing is that if it isn't the module then the problem is something different. And the module is a known thing. But the something then needs to be debugged and understood.

Everything is running on 14.2-RELEASE okay. But upgraded to 14.3-RELEASE and then X fails to start. That's the macro-economics behavior and symptoms. I didn't have time to look further, booted back to 14.2R, bectl destroyed default and recreated it, and it was all as if it had not happened. I love boot environments!

it's always nice to hear about someone making use of our oh-shit fallback mechanisms

sucks that the upgrade wasn't more successful, but awesome that you had a way out of it

And honestly the problem is likely to be on my end anyway because systems get modified and customized and I haven't gotten down to the root cause yet. I am not willing to blame 14.3-RELEASE yet.

sure, but stuff like that is for both your fuckups and ours :-)

we don't discriminate