00:18:02 Whee, my T420 upgraded to FreeBSD 14.3 and there's no more X on it. 01:42:22 oxbar: 99% of the window managers that work on linux / x11/ wayland work on freebsd I'd say. 01:42:39 most are in ports/pkgs and others can be built from source. 02:01:31 mason: you likely need to build and install /usr/ports/graphics/drm-61-kmod from source 02:02:04 OR, as some have done, use the new kmod repo -- I've no experience with that method though, so can't recommend it 02:07:48 hello! i wanted to look /dev/mem to find my motherboard model and i ended up finding my searches, bitwarden passwords, znc messages and other things from past reboots. is there a way to clear memory on boot? 02:09:09 correct me if i am wrong but it doesn't look like the free implementation is clearing memory, which might be a vulnerability 02:10:16 essentially: `cat /dev/mem | strings | less`, scroll down for a while and you'll find information that should have not stood in memory 02:17:13 SponiX: Ah, thanks. Looking at some options. 03:09:46 mason: you get it going again? 03:10:21 SponiX: Nah, going to try OpenBSD on the box. Been years. 03:10:40 Was a coin flip between that and Alpine. 03:12:14 I've heard that the Desktop Experience on OpenBSD is pretty nice 03:12:23 SponiX: But yeah, Intel graphics, so I think you nailed it. 03:13:14 I've never used OpenBSD for more than a little bit. And really don't plan to 03:13:38 got a nvidia card rn, next card won't be nvidia tho. too hostile 03:13:46 prolly getting radeon 03:13:48 But whoever was speaking to me about its Desktop experience said it is good because most of its developers actually Daily it as their Desktop OS 03:14:02 ya imagine that 03:14:24 My FreeBSD machine is using an AMD RX 5700 card 03:14:30 My Linux box has the 9070 XT 03:14:42 good fbsd support? 03:14:43 I gave my 4070 Super to my oldest son for his birthday 03:15:12 RX 5700 is well supported with FreeBSD yes. the 9070 XT isn't even close to having FreeBSD support yet 03:15:47 sometimes it feels like staying with fbsd is a losing battle. always behind, ever more fringe 03:17:23 behind on current/modern hardware support, probably. But I feel FreeBSD has strong points that still make it a good choice when possible 03:18:35 best hosted email providers? want to be able to use my own domain and pay a small monthly fee for each mailbox, with unlimited aliases. (don't want/need wildcard) need rock solid and secure. using tucows/opensrs atm but done with them 03:18:56 tucows still exists!?!?! 03:19:02 ya lol 03:19:26 fastmail? 03:19:44 have you actually used fastmail or just know it's an option? 03:20:09 I use it, have done for years 03:20:51 $5/mo is too expensive 03:21:19 tucows charges like $.25/mo/mailbox. free aliases 03:26:31 You are expecting a quality service for less than $5/month USD ? 03:27:28 tucows is good except for the stupid mandatory pw expiration policy 03:27:32 so yes 03:28:01 you're saying, pay 20x more than you're currently paying. i'd pay $1/mo/mailbox but 5 is absurd 03:28:08 alo, i have a silly opinion question whilst slightly inebriated. 4 srs tho. 03:28:56 i have some e-waste, and it's been quite a while since i've admined on any BSD, szo im thinking of slapping something on there and using it as like a DNS or smth stupid 03:29:10 if i do, any BSD should work? wondering what i should use it for, something silly 03:29:41 it's not really suitable as a file server, only like 120 GB or smth 03:30:55 tl;dr gimme silly suggestions to what to do with my e-waste, it's super low power so i don't mind leaving it on 03:33:32 demido: you claim to want security, and your number one complaint is password expiration? 03:33:55 1990 called... 03:36:58 good time 03:39:34 Matt|home: it could do DNS caching for your LAN 03:39:50 the unbound that comes in the FreeBSD useland works well for that 03:40:40 aight. let's see what version we're up to 03:41:23 FreeBSD release is on 14.3 03:41:29 damn we sure came a ways from version... 12.1 ... ... lol.. jesus fuckin christ 03:41:41 GOD DAMMIT MICROSOFT, SEE THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT. _this_ is how you do version control you sons of bitches :D 03:42:47 a dedicated support lifecycle button, clear version numbers printed :D im waiting for the inevitable "windows 12.a" drop or something :p 03:43:26 it has taken a while to make unbound actually wor out of the box 03:43:31 seriously i am legit surprised, freebsd 12 was a /while/ ago, at least from what i remember 03:43:32 without the need to fiddle with it 03:43:40 but it is unice to have when t works 03:43:45 like 20+ years ago 03:44:25 what's unbound? i'll google. 03:45:10 oh they made DNS easier hopefully. i remember setting up BIND was a nasty bitch 03:45:59 its a local cached DNS service 03:46:03 included in freebsd 03:46:22 i personally hate it but once its confired correctly it does speed up DNS queries 03:47:21 well that's useful at least 03:47:39 also i wanted to set up a web crawler or some kind of mini search engine at some point so i can filter for the queries i want 03:47:47 that's.. gonna be a while though :D 03:47:48 i use it as a way to block ads 03:47:58 but i guess having my local DNS might entice me more 03:48:08 well there's a valid fuckin reason right there 03:48:12 i like duckduckgo 03:48:19 how successful are you with it, can you just completely ignore youtube ads without the ad blocker? 03:48:20 not sure why you would need your own but ok 03:48:31 mildly drunken musics, dwb them 03:48:37 no youtube ill stop working right if you block ads 03:48:47 but theres 3rd party services or alternative to youtub 03:48:49 e 03:49:04 ublock origin on my desktop has worked perfectly fine 03:49:08 youtube has made it hard for ad blockers to view videos 03:49:09 so far 03:49:21 mobile, no chance in hell. but on windows desktop? 100% success 03:49:36 that's win10 specifically 03:49:42 i still get youtbe bitching at me that I use an adblocker 03:49:50 what browser? 03:49:54 & os? 03:50:01 but it until it actually become an issue ill search for the 3rd parties 03:50:09 Mac OS 15 and Firefox 03:50:23 uBlock Origin still works really well 03:50:32 might be the mac itself 03:50:33 the system next to mine which is cmpiling current right now runs freebsd 03:50:38 which would suck 03:50:52 I actually have YouTube Premium or whatever though. So, I can't confirm ads or not, as my account doesn't get them from YouTube anyway 03:51:03 * Matt|home refuses to pay for anything -_- 03:51:06 i will never buy youtube premium 03:51:15 that includes rent and groceries -_- 03:51:21 its not worth it i would rather buy the CD for the bands i like 03:51:33 tehpeh what's the difference between masked email and alias on fastmail? read the kb but they seem the same except masked is automatically generated. mind if i pm you since it's not on topic? 03:52:07 think its the same just worded differently 03:52:10 I also still using uBlock Origin with my Chromium/Chrome sessions 03:52:15 proton offers a similar service 03:52:43 cpet: I'm on 15 as my daily driver 03:53:20 reminds me though, I really should reboot sometime soon so my userland and kernel are in sync 03:54:35 i would just love it if i could use that laptop to directly control my light switches and ovens and stuff.. i know most people hate smart houses for good reason, but 4 srsly i want a house that moves & does stuff and is cool and stuff ;_; like w robot arms and automation and stuff dammit :< so why can't i safely hook up my laptop directly to the mains power signal and do a manual conversion ;_; 03:54:40 SponiX: main system is a mac mini my other system is freebsd current 03:55:06 Matt|home: i chose not to buy a smart thermosttat for a reason 03:55:42 the key to make current easier to work with is adding the PORT_MODULES= 03:55:54 .. i can't imagine what that reason is, you can directly use the thermostat's internal pressure itself as microcontroller signals quite easily 03:56:09 at least i think you could 03:56:30 i dont like the remote sense my portable AC does it and i immeditely disabled that 03:56:44 IoT is the most insuecre crap you can have on your network 03:56:49 well like i said i don't blame people for not wanting them 03:57:10 but c'mon.. surely we can engineer something cool and that works properly without it being a serious issue 03:57:31 i want my cool robowife when i come home so we can chat about cooking and complex socioeconomic topics ;_; 03:57:49 im all for that 03:58:01 but the secueity is what gets me 03:58:12 so much that i cant spell it :P 03:58:45 how about remote controlled light switches, any prbs with those? 03:58:55 like LED lamps or strips or whatevs 03:58:57 same as above 03:59:04 really those are security risks? 03:59:10 i personaly dont trust all that 03:59:19 mh. i'd have to weigh convenience vs that 03:59:22 even thiugh I did have a remote switch for my xmas tree 03:59:50 but when you have a device with a default password of Password 03:59:54 you question 04:00:15 now as much as it nice to have a remote thermostat 04:00:21 i personally don trust them 04:00:57 now you cn change the password to something more secure 04:01:02 but there also the cost 04:01:05 https://public-files.gumroad.com/q4m2mh7qc618rkku3mpaanx6phzr <-- aww :D also rofl jesus fuck what a contrast :D 04:01:18 the thermostat i got was 99 vs the same one that was smart capable was 199 04:02:08 Matt|home: robowife lol 04:02:28 scottpedia - i am of course, referring to a rather beloved old disney original film of mine, smart house 04:02:37 so i programmed it during the week from 8am to above 5pm is 70F 6pm to 7am the temp is 68F 04:02:43 ... seriously i don't care, that shit was made in the 90s and i friggin want it ok :D 04:02:44 for me it works fine 04:03:31 now if i could aford tose walk in thermostats where the AC will only turn on when it detects movement 04:03:34 well 04:03:41 fuck the remote ill go with that 04:04:00 you don't want a robowife to turn into a robocop if you talk about unorthodoxy stuff Matt|home 04:04:05 scottpedia: its the new age man 04:04:11 or robofed which is worse 04:04:37 hang a girl thts in the law enforment isnt that bad 04:04:51 you guys ever watched the 6th day? 04:04:57 yeap 04:05:11 back when they made deent movie 04:05:34 Arnold was just being himself 04:05:47 before he beame a politician 04:06:03 probably would of been a reat president as well 04:06:10 great 04:06:13 was he born in the US? 04:06:20 nope 04:06:24 he couldn't run for POTUS right? 04:06:32 nope 04:07:07 anyone could do a better job than this current one 04:07:17 but i guess this is more for #politics 04:07:28 DJT? 04:07:50 I've been in self-induced medio isolation for more than 5 years straight 04:07:58 yeap 04:08:19 lets just say i dont agree with a lot of what he is doing 04:08:27 but not enough to go out a riot 04:08:50 US is still better than the other five eyes 04:08:58 *four eyes 04:08:59 yeap 04:09:06 kind of why I dont do any of that hah 04:09:17 at least RMS still fully lives on cash 04:10:34 but anyways I won't want a robowife 04:10:44 not any sort of *wife 04:10:52 nor robo* 04:11:33 one thing i hated about this network 04:11:40 the whole stay on topic bs 04:12:07 #freebsd is still on the liberal side of things 04:12:10 but i blame scottpedia for that 04:12:29 half of #politics was mod. just imagine that. 04:12:45 after realsing the death of 2 politicians 04:12:49 shit dont surprise me 04:12:59 what two politicians? 04:13:04 in the US? 04:13:10 look at the news man 04:13:33 hartman and her husband = deceased 04:13:49 #freebsd-social is right over there -> 04:13:52 https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/minnesota-shootings-manhunt-06-15-25 04:14:21 mason: #freebsd-mason is right over there as well 04:14:30 go talk to youself 04:14:45 scottpedia: you can msg me if you want so we dont upset mason 04:14:50 cpet: Don't be belligerent. You know the guidelines as you just quoted them yourself. 04:14:52 he gets upset quick 04:15:07 right 04:15:12 let's go PM cpet 04:15:14 yeah het gets upset quick 04:15:40 Not upset. Just reminding the toddler where to go. 04:15:59 yeah he got upset 04:16:10 cause the channel is dead but you know still stay on topic 04:18:26 scottpedia: always add something freebsd 04:18:33 so this still makes it freebsd related 04:18:39 this way mason doesnt get upset 04:19:00 so theres some shooting in x , but freebsd jails are cool 04:19:04 cpet: For me being the one upset, you're struggling to get off the topic. Shoo. :P 04:19:05 see still related to freebsd 04:19:19 hmm 04:19:19 mason: eww 04:19:31 do they get sent to freebsd jail if convicted? 04:19:37 How about that Fork for X11 ? 04:19:39 mason: for the person who managed to say no one cares about veterans i can see where it comes from 04:19:46 as i know SponiX will back me up on that 04:19:59 why is there a jail if freebsd is "free"? 04:20:07 man jail 04:20:14 its more of a function 04:20:22 a better a hard core chroot() 04:20:24 I know. I was joking. 04:20:30 thats just mean 04:20:50 does anyone ever escape from a freebsd jail? 04:20:58 xlibre looks promising 04:21:00 you cant 04:21:14 okay 04:21:17 if you excapre from a jail the jail isnt doing its job 04:21:25 same goes for chroot 04:21:50 however you can give the jail more reedom if you look at sysctl -A|gre jail 04:21:52 grep 04:22:43 cpet are you drunk rn? never seen you so mouthpoopy 04:23:02 and just because a leftist terrorist killed those politicians it doesn't mean all leftist are violent terrorists 04:23:14 nver said that 04:23:17 okay hortman not hartman 04:23:25 k 04:23:43 and im not that drunk ;/ 04:24:00 demido: do you understand the psychology of modern l**tism? 04:24:12 scottpedia: say it as it is man 04:24:23 surely youll upset mason but hell have to deal with it 04:24:42 the guy called me a monkey some time ago 04:24:54 who? 04:24:58 for a reason I didn't understand 04:25:05 demido cpet 04:25:06 demido: that is pretty odd.. the left is normally against weapons and are peaceful. 04:25:10 if I called you a monkey i would remeber 04:25:11 hah 04:25:37 does port have a CLI excel equi ? 04:26:01 nopw 04:26:03 nope 04:26:42 scottpedia: ? 04:27:03 cpet: Why are you highlighting me for this? Go get yourself some help, please. 04:27:25 cause you are the only one who is constaly saying to stay on topic 04:27:29 no oe else seems to mind 04:27:51 not to mention you disrespect me and SponiX military service 04:28:01 which made me dislike you 04:28:16 shall i go on i have more? 04:28:28 mason - i haven't bothered readnig the scrollback(too drunk for that) but if you're gonna admonish cpet for being off-topic that also applies to me too, i didn'tk now there was an active social channel 04:28:31 but shall remember 04:28:50 Matt|home: no no you keep on your topic 04:32:09 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol0Jf2KqBdY this is amazing :D 04:35:04 Matt|home: hah 04:35:15 i kind of enjoyed that movie 04:35:17 "kind of" 05:23:25 demido: yeh that's how I read it, masked is auto generated and non-identifiable. PM away! 07:16:10 which slack-client are ppl using when running freebsd as workstation/desktop ? 07:26:47 the web browser one? 07:55:37 TommyC: with chrome --app-mode ? 07:58:58 I have always use the slack-client 08:12:45 no I always just used Slack through my browser 08:51:38 TommyC: oh, I have always used the client, maybe it´s just habit.. 09:02:51 That's how it is for me too. 12:07:20 12:07:20 12:32:24 I'm having trouble with PCI passthrough. I'm able to make the device ready using devctl, but adding a pptdevs line to my loader.conf doesn't seem to have any effect. Is there some step I may be missing to get this device to configure at host boot time? 12:41:51 Zerock so the device is not loaded ad ppt in pciconf? 12:42:32 correct 12:43:55 I'm trying to pass through the integrated GPU, in case that is relevant 12:44:36 and also to be clear I have successfully passed it through to the VM. I just can't get the device to load as ppt at host boot time. 12:44:37 Zerock I've never done that, but how hard could it be? are you using bhyve or vm-bhyve something else? 12:44:44 yes, vm-bhyve 12:45:00 ah I see. can you show me your `vm passthru` output and your loader.conf? 12:45:41 yeah let me reboot so I can get what it looks like right after boot 12:45:54 Zerock 👌 12:49:58 vm passthru: https://0x0.st/86Qe.txt 12:50:07 loader.conf: https://0x0.st/86Q_.txt 12:50:19 I'm trying to pass through vgapci0 12:52:30 Zerock your config looks 100% correct. 12:53:06 I assume the issue can be that, it's being loaded much earlier than pptdevs is being parse and run. Lemme check the docs and source. 12:53:29 yeah that was sort of my thinking; that the display is loaded so early that it's breaking something 12:54:04 you can blocklist vgapci I think 12:58:32 Zerock what commands are you running to convert vgapci to ppt? 13:01:56 devctl set driver -f pci0:0:2:0 ppt 13:04:55 on one end, I want to suggest "how about you add that code into /etc/rc.local" and on another end I want to find the root cause of non-ppt'ing during boot. 13:05:13 let's wait for the Americans to wake up, they might have an answer :-) 13:05:47 right yeah I can do a hack to just run that command at boot (though making sure it runs before the VM starts is not something I know how to ensure) but I am troubled that the standard way is not working. 13:05:57 I am American ;) 13:10:35 I AM NOT WAITING FOR THE AMERICANS, SKYLER... I AM THE AMERICAN! 13:12:51 :) 18:19:00 Which is the recommended jail manager when it comes to customizability, flexibility and active development/maintenance? 18:20:19 andreas303: base system is quite usable 18:22:04 mason: Hmm, you mean not using a 3rd party jail manager but creating and maintaining it manually? 18:22:26 andreas303, There isn't ONE recommended best manager. All of them are used by people. Sometimes people don't use any manager. 18:23:00 I have no basis of comparison, but I have had an easy time with bastille 18:23:45 rwp & Zerock : I see. OK, I will read about how to manage jails manually and maybe try Bastille. 18:24:25 When I started learning jails I wanted to know the details and so I didn't use any manager and just ran the low level commands. And that has continued to the current day because for me the commands in base to start and stop jails are sufficient for me. 18:25:08 In the end you have to try things and see what works for you and whatever you end up with will by definition be what you like using. 18:25:33 wrench: OK, yes, you have a point there. 18:28:39 For people who are using jails, maybe aggressively is not the right word but, aggressively then one of the managers that takes care of the many details of ZFS datasets, snapshots, cloning, then has better benefit. Then bastille, iocage, (and the related vm-bhyve), managers make a lot of sense. 18:32:12 Hi. Is anyone using bastille for jails? I'm in the process of upgrading my jails from 14.1-RELEASE to 14.3-RELEASE but the bastille documentation is (apparently) faulty - the commands they list in the docs are not accepted for thin jails. 18:36:59 All of this talk about jails lately makes me want to investigate them :) 18:37:53 Alver: I recent upgraded from 14.2 to 14.3 without issue. 18:37:56 recently* 18:38:29 Just as a hint but though #freebsd is okay that there is also #freebsd-jails for jails specifically. 18:39:53 there is also #bastillebsd for bastille-specific help 18:39:55 I'll just mention as I pass afk that jails are containers and FreeBSD implemented the first containers with commits to support jails in 1999 which predates the container work done in the Linux kernel. And then I am away so sorry if people want to refute and rebut that information. :-) 18:40:01 Zerock: thick jails went fine, but the thin ones I don't know how to handle. The commands at https://docs.bastillebsd.org/en/latest/chapters/upgrading.html#minor-release-upgrades refer to 13.2 still and don't work. 18:40:23 what issue are you seeing? I upgraded a thin jail 18:40:39 My advice is that disk space is cheap so only use thick jails until you really know you want thin jails. 18:40:51 Zerock: the docs mention to stop the jail first. If I do that, the next command complains the jail should be started. And if I start it, it complains it's not a thick jail. 18:41:30 It also refers to bastille subcommands that don't even exist anymore. 18:41:31 hmm 18:41:41 what bastille version are you running? 18:42:02 0.10.20231125 18:42:20 consider upgrading... I'm on 0.14.20250420 18:42:22 ... ah, heh. The docs are about a NEWER version. 18:42:28 Odd. 18:42:41 Why would that package not be up to date if the base OS supposedly is 18:42:54 maybe your pkg config is messed up 18:43:26 or maybe you manually installed an older version and it is earlier in the PATH 19:25:52 Zerock: looks like it was just behind for... god knows why. But it advanced a bit further at least, thanks. 19:26:00 Now it's barfing on: Failed to build etcupdate tarball "14.3-RELEASE.tbz2". 19:37:13 Zerock: boatload of PEBKAC (and massively confusing and inconsistent behaviour between bastille versions), everything a-OK. :°) 19:37:42 yay 20:55:26 when you install xorg you should be able to startx right if no login manager is present correct ? or is there an extra step ? 20:59:14 oxbar: Hm, presumably startx is there, but I always just turn on xdm in /etc/ttys. 21:03:07 oxbar, Yes. But you may or may not need to install and configure other certain things. I don't recall everything I must install but I install xorg and for my hardware I must install drm-kmod and I think that installs gpu-firmware-kmod as a dependency. 21:03:35 And then for my hardware I must add radeonkms to /etc/rc.conf kld_list variable to load automatically. 21:03:53 And *then* xinit will be able to start up The X Window System. 21:04:14 https://0x0.st/86LR.0.log 21:05:09 However right now in 14.3-RELEASE the precompiled binary driver pkgs are out of sync with the kernel. So as of last Wednesday one must get a newer driver. Which supposedly is available, see "man pkg.conf" and look for the example at the bottom. But that support is very new and it did not work for me, likely pilot error on my part here. 21:05:38 Dam 21:06:12 For my laptop it is all the same except s/radeonkms/i915kms/ 21:07:21 At the moment I am holding at 14.2-RELEASE until I get just a few moments of time to figure the driver problem out. Other people have it working no problem though. 21:07:52 Hmm 21:08:19 Thanks rwp have to go to the doctor will figure it out when I come home 21:15:31 oxbar, https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/x11/ covers what needs to be done to set things up fairly well. The only gotcha right now is the 14.3-RELEASE driver ABI version mismatch problem. 21:22:02 which should be solved by the kmods repo... i believe that's now enabled by default since 14.3 21:27:35 Heya, I have a long and maybe stupid/noob question. Nix is quite popular, partly because it allows you to decoratively config a system and deploy it to a machine. I don't like how it creates essentially a meta-abstraction over the system and adds so much complexity, at the same time it's a very nice way to build a reproducible system. So my 21:27:36 question: I'm curious if you could instead use zfs and thick jails to basically setup your system completely locally, optionally use `zsd` to diff and rollback changes. Then when you feel that system is ready "commit" the changes by creating a snapshot and use `zfs send` to basically deploy your system to your server.  Would something like that 21:27:36 be possible in Freebsd? 21:28:01 ivy, Maybe. It isn't for me. But... "man pkg.conf" and there is now a new example that Alex added to the man page with the quarterly kernel modules repository configuration. Presumably that works for people. I added that to my system and removed and installed the new packages but it did not result in a working graphics for me. My X still crashes at start. Fortunately not a kernel panic this time. 21:28:45 mccd, Yes. People do that. Let me look up an old reference that would still be applicable. 21:30:38 I think you could do it in zfs or ufs 21:30:45 take your pick 21:30:49 mccd, Look at https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/howto-freebsd-zfs-madness.31662/ 21:31:12 That posting is only 13 years old now and it is still applicable! :-) 21:31:32 rwp amazing thank you 21:33:07 Note that in the intervening years some things are easier. Now you can directly ask bectl/beadm to mount a file system cloned boot environment obviating the need for the manual jail configuration in the rc.conf file. 21:33:45 Also the area around the IP assignment needs to be polished up somewhat as the base system will already in the rc.conf of the jailed system clone. But these are easily handled and does not affect the overall concept. 21:34:02 With this system either the default BE is left behind or must be brought forward and that is not discussed in the posting. 22:20:19 rwp: should uninstall drm-kmod switch to main then compile it ? 22:23:48 oxbar, Let me repeat that I don't have it working for me (making me a poor reference) but other people say it works for them. With that warning let me hint that the pkg module version will match the kernel when things are working correctly. 22:26:52 For example on 14.2-RELEASE "pkg info | grep 1402000 | less" will match installed packages with a matching version. For me this includes many gpu-firmware-radeon-kmod-* drivers. 22:27:53 If you upgrade to the newest 14.2-RELEASE then those are the pkgs that should be updated to a 1403000 version. And then things should work. (Maybe I will work on this tonight...) 22:52:23 there may be an issue that pkg sometimes chooses the wrong repository, i don't remember if this is fixed yet... if not, 'pkg install -r FreeBSD-kmods drm-kmod' might help 22:57:39 ivy, Maybe. But when I "pkg info | grep 1403000" it appears as if I have gotten the matching version. It appears to me that the kernel ABI is still mismatched between the kernel and the pkg. 22:58:11 rwp: what's the error you get when loading the module? 22:58:14 My actual plan is to build both the kernel and the graphics driver together on the same system and then that should work because both would be compiled from the same interface. 22:58:53 ivy, (EE) Failed to load module "intel" (module does not exist, 0) 22:58:57 Though the files do exist on disk. 22:59:09 I am thinking that the ABI doesn't match and therefore they are ignored. 22:59:16 that sounds more like an X.org problem 22:59:55 Actually I am also getting that line in 14.2-RELEASE which is currently booted and X is running okay. Hmm... 23:01:45 do you see the drm-kmod module (not sure what the intel one is called) in kldlist in 14.3? if so, it's probably not a problem with the module, if it loads it should work 23:13:02 ivy, The bad thing is that if it isn't the module then the problem is something different. And the module is a known thing. But the something then needs to be debugged and understood. 23:14:22 Everything is running on 14.2-RELEASE okay. But upgraded to 14.3-RELEASE and then X fails to start. That's the macro-economics behavior and symptoms. I didn't have time to look further, booted back to 14.2R, bectl destroyed default and recreated it, and it was all as if it had not happened. I love boot environments! 23:30:21 it's always nice to hear about someone making use of our oh-shit fallback mechanisms 23:30:38 sucks that the upgrade wasn't more successful, but awesome that you had a way out of it 23:37:45 And honestly the problem is likely to be on my end anyway because systems get modified and customized and I haven't gotten down to the root cause yet. I am not willing to blame 14.3-RELEASE yet. 23:40:38 sure, but stuff like that is for both your fuckups and ours :-) 23:40:54 we don't discriminate 23:43:07 * rwp laughs