I think that the user's shell set in /etc/passwd will not influence the environment. /etc/login.conf might, but only when doing "full login", which is not done during rc script execution.

su(1) describes the difference between a full login (-l or -) and the "leave the environment unmodifid" option (-m)

xxx_user in the rc scripts uses "su -m"

what does "getenv passwd prog" say?

want me to make prog run that like those other commands are?

no such file or dir

can't get your service to run here, most probably what you have pasted is incomplete

and "getent passwd prog" ?

is prog there the bin or user?

just curious about context

That is why your pasted stuff is useless. It should be the user.

saper termbin.com/my70

it does not run as-is here, sorry

what do you think prog is?

prog is a bin i made. it runs whatever i tell it to in its config file

I am sure that the extra environment you are seeing on "13" is from the interactive session of some other user.

well they're ran the same way

you can compare /etc/login.conf on the 13 and 14 sytem

why that matter? they both use nologin shell

sorry, no one can help you like this.

speak for yourself. you've been wrong other times

if you dont want to help me then stop

go away

have a better day

sounds like "env" vs "set", global env vs local shell set vars.

you can always export the shell var into the env if you want.

that changed in 13->14?

well i already solved the prob im just trying to find out wtf changed. because freebsd 14 relnotes don't talk about it

freebsd.org/releases/14.0R/relnotes Userland Configuration Changes:

The default shell for the root user is now sh(1), which has many new features for interactive use. d410b585b6f0

Title: FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE Release Notes | The FreeBSD Project

but 'prog' runs as its user not root

so you say its not in the changelog but i see it

how are they connected?

root > daemon > prog's user?

since prog's user is nologin

Title: linux - What is the difference between /sbin/nologin and /bin/false? - Server Fault

perhaps

see the ftp section

telnet/ftp w00t!

anyway no clue your problem..just pointing out foobar

ok well ima just assume you're right unless someone that knows says otherwise, that root being sh in 14 changed my daemon > user env to have way less

got a workaround so np. i just use full path to bin

assume nothing!

yeah well you solved the problem, move on to the next fire, to put out.

well i want to understand the why, but i tried

putting out fires! running around...no time

curious yes...which bit flipped...pointing right to it.. i know.

build a test bed, 13 and 14 and compare contrast...2 machines

i did

read back through all of my updates

i put exact same config into 13 and 14

it maybe has to do with rc services now taking -E to set env vars

that's new too

"extend /usr/bin/service with possibility to set env vars"

ahh so you might know the problem..nice

a dentist only has to learn the human mouth once, 8 billion people have generic mouth/teeth foobar.

computer science always changing

you guys faff a lot

amiga,dos,solaris,bsd,linux..always changing..information tech..moving target

damn dentist make buck!

only have to learn things once

meanwhile in computers..things are always changing..learn and re-learn

just saying nothing is written in stone, computer hardware/software is always change.

embrace the change

if i could vear slightly off topic for just a moment

BYE BYE dallas mavericks :D

crapple , m$, oracle, nvidia cant get things correct, and they are billion dollar company's...

Title: Microsoft Refused to Fix Flaw Years Before SolarWinds Hack — ProPublica

rennj: Thanks, that did it (the smbios thing).

polarian: I don't think anyone in the BSD world other than Apple would take offense to "libre" or "free". In the OpenBSD community it's even said that the BSD's are generally a lot more free than GNU is due to how restrictive the GPL licenses are.

So it turns out, Google has offered me a job as a janitor for no other reason than to stop the work I'm doing on FreeBSD, because aparently making manuals easier to use represents a threat to their Fuscia project, which is basically Capsicum OS.

concussious: or they are telling you that you are only good at cleaning, and not at programming :P

(I am kidding)

google is like mcdonalds. i own their stock but i try not to use their products

and cocacola

remiliascarlet: well it was simply the fact I have never seen a BSD user ever use the word libre to describe open source code... so I thought would be too much of a fsfism

I'm not good at programming, manuals are doc writing.

concussious: well then you are a great cleaner :P

cleaner of manual pages :P

polarian: Maybe because BSD users tend to be far less of a freetard? Maybe unless you're using HyperbolaBSD, which has still yet to materialize anyway.

freetard?

I thought that was just like, me just being a responsible user and helping out.

BSD has a completely different approach to the concept of free.

I wanted to show you a true historical gold on the OpenBSD mailing list (a fight between Richard Stallman and Theo de Raadt), but seems like marc.info is down at the moment.

we're all very passionate about it actually.

remiliascarlet: I have read them

reading the OpenBSD mailing list is fun

polarian: I started reading OpenBSD mailing list recreationally at age 12.

never knew it was a competition

wait who uses OpenBSD at the age of 12

I didn't

polarian: digdeeper.neocities.org/graves/freetardism

Title: Refuting Freetardism

but I found out how funny they were

concussious: how long ago was this

like back when OpenBSD was small

There is a difference between being all about freedom and being a freetard.

The latter is that you take it to such an extreme, that you end up restricting freedom.

remiliascarlet: I like this take

ah so freetards are fsf devout supporters who take the 4 freedoms and the black and white view on software freedom as a holy text

right ok

I go to Ohio Linux Fest every year and drink with everyone, most aren't like that, but the ones that do wrap our ideas in the GPL and then we can never get it back.

I contribute to GPL projects when I can

but I wish the broader GPL movement would respect us more.

they respect your code

once its gift wrapped in GPL

polarian: how long ago did I start reading OBSD lists? that would be maybe 16 years?

gotta give it to proprietary companies, at least they are shameless when it comes to taking code... GPL users will argue how they are making your code more free and protecting it from evil companies until they are blue in the face

concussious: geez

OpenBSD was tiny back then, how does some 12 year old come across it

m$ buying github and pulling that code into copilot, meanwhile m$ winblows source code is off limits

firstly

m$ buying linkedin..pulling in resumes

what microsoft did with copilot is likely illegal

Microsoft doesn't care.

there was a group of lawyers preparing to sue them a year or so ago

but I don't think any materialised

but Microsoft would have no grounds of defense

its blatent copyright infringement

They know that if they are dragged to court, they will just pay a "fine" equivelant to just 2 hours work.

however, windows is microsofts code... and as the rights of FreeBSD code is respected (attribution) you can't expect them to make it open as it would violate their freedom

remiliascarlet: are you trying to prove microsoft is evil or you making a left wing argument about the evils of capitalism...

What the hell?

I'm doing neither.

oh then I am completely confused :P

capitalism reduces everything to a resource, blood banks/plasm donors ...see las vegas

It's literally what is happening pretty much every single year.

plasma donors correction!

It's just that the media likes to say "they have to pay the biggest fines ever", but totally forget to mention how easy it is for them to pay that.

you know your in bad part of town when you got plasma donor clinics ...$1000 a month for resource.

But to make it clear, I have nothing against capitalism, and from what I have seen is that the only people who have something against it tend to be unskilled, unemployed Reddit addicts.

unregulated capitalism is the problem, regulation made in blood

Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire

or read upton sinclair "the jungle" why we have FDA

offtopic

meat packing in Chicago...saw dust for filler

polyex: once politics gets started, it can't be stopped :P

hence why you guys gotta keep it to #freebsd-social

Compare it to Alex Jones for example, who got fined an impossible amount of money, which makes it very clear they just want to financially bankrupt him. But when those same people fine big tech companies, they keep in mind what they make in a year, and only take 1 or 2% of it.

polyex: you got chanop?

no

bah remiliascarlet bogus

that asshole had it coming

wait who are the chanops here?

rennj it's not bogus. a BILLION dollar fine is ridiculous

totally political

Wasn't it way in the trillions?

well sometimes its more profitable to do something illegal and pay the fines, than to not do it

atleast aborition was overturned

rennj: Had what coming? Being wrong on 1 subject?

what reality is it ok..to spew lies?

That would mean that the entirety of the mainstream media would have to be fined trillions of dollars each time they publish an article.

ibm deckstar/deathstar lies...see how that works out

And not just target 1 outlet for 1 misinformation, but give everyone else a free pass to do so all the goddamn time.

Title: Deskstar - Wikipedia

i'm so sorry i started the offtopic

how about msdos 6.0 and doublespace/drivespace...destroying user data...

facts or fiction..if you believe alex jones, i cant help you

already to far gone...

its never too late

I don't believe Alex Jones, I simply see politically motivated bullshit from far away.

ok, i don't know who all is interested in my sn770 nvme stalls / zio->io_cv lockups / controller timeouts saga (if anyone), but been running the replacement crucial p3 drive for a few hours doing a ~792 ports build without issue so far *fingers crossed*

So the point is, if it wasn't politically motivated, the treatment he got should have been applied to every other media outlet.

am i in the right channel? wtf

wcarson: yes you are topic derailed

Model: WD_BLACK SN770 1TB is rocking but it has no local dram, uses system ram is my understanding.

i know you got 2TB model..

zfs has slog/zil also...

To SLOG or not to SLOG

back on topic

How to best configure your ZFS Intent Log....

Title: What is the ZFS ZIL SLOG and what makes a good one

imgur.com/BJGGz i.imgur.com/px0V8.jpg and thats like 20 years old early zfs no root boot

sun thumper array..sun 7000 unfied storage Sun Storage 7000 appliance

way before oracle buy

2011 w00t

ram,ssd,spinning rust..hybrid storage..used all

zil/slog on ssd was speed up,

oracle purchase was 2009/2010..but that vm is 2011

forgot to start with 'screen' ;)

~.

disconnected

anyone know about pf improvements in 14?

specifically scrub fragment reassemble vs set reassemble yes

hey i noticed in 14.1 FreeBSD.conf says https now not http. so pkg.freebsd.org got moved to https?

check the release notes

really nice upgrade

you know about the pf question?

no

ok ty

periodic still grabs vuxml.freebsd.org using http not https

i wonder if that's an oversight?

doubtful; it's a different system, different part of the codebase

freebsd-update still using http btw, not https

so only pkg moved to https. or added it anyway, dunno if http was removed

anyone know about pf improvements in freebsd 14? specifically, is the old "scrub fragment reassemble" the same as the new "set reassemble yes"?

why does 14 have /etc/rc.d/utx enabled by default now?

Chromium is now 2 major versions behind with numerous unpatched cves, I can't seem to find any bugzilla issue blocking its update...

polarian: Sounds like it's about time to switch to lynx.

Or NetSurf or Dillo if it has to be graphical.

Yo! What are my options to avoid passing through "whole" USB stack/bridge to a bhyve VM, to allow it r/w access to host's serial port? Manpage for socat(1) on FreeBSD mentions "b19200 Sets the serial line speed to 19200 baud" and it very much works on Linux, but FreeBSD throws: socat[pid] E parseopts_table(): unknown option "b19200"

To avoid XY problem - I want to program ESP32 boards on FreeBSD. I wasn't successful with any approach on 15-CURRENT so I'm trying to use Linux VM to program host's USB-connected ESP32.

polarian, maybe Google just doesn't care.

CrtxReavr: nah the port...

Okay, then chromium⊙Fo doesn't care.

In a sense, BSD is what Linux used to be up until the early 2010s; gaining more recognition among the nerds, but barely any developers care, because barely anyone else is using it.

Use ispeed or ospeed instead. of "b19200"

see man page

Title: socat

I guess once the BSD's become as big as Linux currently is, all the nerds will just move to Haiku.

Haiku reminds me to what Linux was like in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

Perhaps there will be Unix Wars II

well i used both beos and haiku..and beos needed external box.

imgur.com/ul1257x beos epson scsi scanner

imgur.com/WecJVQN beos raid0 with usb keychains

Probably not. Back then it was pretty much SYSV vs BSD, the only SYSV Unix that are still being maintained are Oracle Solaris, HP UX, and Illumos. Solaris is slowly but surely being killed, UX is just in maintenance mode, and Illumos is so dead that nobody even cares.

well the HCL is small anyway for illumos kernel

not dead yet

I actually installed OpenIndiana on a laptop one day, and it took literally forever to just fetch updates, then it took even more foreverer to install them, so I got frustrated and replaced it with NetBSD.

I'm seeing OmniOS being mentioned a few times recently omnios.org

Title: OmniOS Community Edition

imgur.com/BjTRUJc oi doing vlc,fvwm,rox,sshfs,youtube-dl

lts: That website takes forever to load.

rennj, old school

nice

i like it

well i am old

imgur.com/p95rKOf solaris 10 beta tv card working.

thats fvwm,rox..also

i like fvwm2/rox combo..been using it for 2 decades or so

using it right now

20 year old screenshot

imgur.com/OxqoZni amiga!

fvwm2 rocking

I keep making my task lists longer...

Also, I haven't used fvwm2 in years. Any chance it's Wayland compliant? XD

regis, any luck with ispeed or ospeed instead. of "b19200" ?

would not know, i been avoiding wayland,pulseaudio/pipewire all kinds of foo..

this os i built is probably my last Xorg/X11R6 or whatever..

next build probably be pipewire and wayland foobar...

besides dbus and all that other stupid..

or i could switch to open,net,free bsd's

vmware i know this my last build of that product..

those 2 kernel modules for that product was always a pain, vmnet.ko/vmmon.ko

2007-2023 pain in the ass

love fixing other people shit code

rennj: nope :(

jkeifer.github.io/posts/serial-with-socat reading

Title: Serial with socat | Jarrett Keifer

kind like your error

the magic incantation

heh

DCE and DTE must have the same values

athf : "Broodwich" Bread forged in darkness from wheat harvested from Hell's Half-Acre and baked by Beelzebub.

Mayonnaise made from the evil eggs of a powerful dark chicken beaten into sauce by the hands of a one-eyed madman.

Most of the mayonnaise these days is full of seed oils, so I can't recommend it.

yeah Cory Doctorow - Enshittification

olive oil and egg whites..make at home

or is it egg yolks

Enshittification is not a topic I was expecting here, when trying to leech some ESP32 @ FreeBSD experience know-how.

im always off-topic..freebsd-social i guess i should join

All BSDs are stable and there's no serious discussion onb falling into making capitalism-ahdering changes.

kick ban!

his idea apply to not only online content, but to general life..when capitalism reduces everything to a resource.. now donate blood plasma now!

people in las vegas $1000 month for blood plasma, bad hood when it got check cashing,pawn shops, and plasma donation centers.

American capitalism has already undermined people to the level of resource and a mine of information transferred to wealth.

opensource and freesoftware is idealist foobar

rennj: May I ask what is your perspective on this?

everything is a resource, i said...

where is my blood boy, need youth transfusion.

hbo silicon valley...

So, purely cost efficient approach. Ok.

observation of the system i live in

i can''t solve worlds problems on computer problems

i can''t solve worlds problems only computer problems

The thing is: people used as a workforce in the current system are exploited. Corporations profit from this. Lawmakers profit from these corporations' growth. It's literally an absurd to expect these lawmakers punish the cows that feed them.

So let's not go as far as "worlds problems" but just fucking decouple US lawmakerws from the stock/ownership level they hold on the entitties they pretend they rule about.

The Century of the Self

Looks like this chanel is about to go full politics mode again...

the bsd's rock but 1995 was already 25 years of unix. plan9 and lucent really fucked up

on topic ?

stupid support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/captive-portal kicks me off every 24hours..hotels/starbucks..bah

Title: Captive portal detection | Firefox Help

i need firefox around just to login to network, chrome doesnt seem to work at all for that captive-portal

phone chrome works for that stupid, but linux chrome doesn't seem to know anything

rennj: agreed

about the unix comment

Howdy, folks!

Well, i managed to beat shareware quake today on this FreeBSD testing laptop of mine.

Then again, for a laptop that uses a single intel I386 CPU, and a Nvidia GPU with GL 3.3, it's not that bad running FreeBSD on it.

when I do adduser and it asks if the user should be encrypted, I would like to confirm this is additional (home directory) encryption, and the zfs FDE should still encrypt the home directory even if the user home directory isn't encrypted?

correct?

you're using ZFS native encryption?

or geli?

Title: FreeBSD 14.1: What’s new, and how did we get here? | The FreeBSD Forums

Adduser Utility Enhancements: The adduser(8) utility now automatically creates a ZFS dataset for new user home directories if the parent directory resides on a ZFS dataset. This feature supports ZFS encryption, providing enhanced security for user data.

i assume it wouldnt offer the option with geli/gbde foo

yeah. looks that way

any pf users, i have set reassemble yes, but should i add "no-df"? just not sure on best practices

psycorama: whatever the installer does, so geli I believe

its still geli decryption on boot

so that's under the fs

thus all datasets are encrypted...?

just verifying my hypothesis

chpass says -e expiretime. but wtf does it mean for an account to "expire"?

see passwd gecos fields

hp-ux did /etc/passwd better then anyone else i think..

expire the passwd every 90 days, and kept db of users old passwd so they could reuse them..

expire the passwd every 90 days, and kept db of users old passwd so they couldnt reuse them..

all that sun would need to be in nis+ or ldap foo, local box couldnt do that

Title: passwd(5)

expire Account expiration time.

gecos General information about the user. bah..memory fart

"expire" means the account is no longer valid; observable effect: the user will not be able to login.

time is a misnomer, as it is a only a date it wants. Experimentation suggests expiry is at the end of that day.

nope, at the beginning of the date you put in there.

sinc unix epoch

1 January 1970, the Unix epoch

leave it blank like man page says for no expire

time_t has been widened to 64 bits. This expands the times representable to about 292.3 billion years in both directions, which is over twenty times the present age of the universe. haha

BinGOs user can't login, so that's the same as pw lock?

because setting pass to -w no, that disables password auth but other kinds can work like ssh key login, but pw lock disables any form of auth

haven't tried ssh key login, but account expiration is useful, say you give an account to someone who you know is on a fixed contract, for instance. You set the expiration for their end date. You don't then have to worry about remembering to delete their account when they leave.

ya i wonder if the expire code and lock code follow same code path