00:01:48 I think that the user's shell set in /etc/passwd will not influence the environment. /etc/login.conf might, but only when doing "full login", which is not done during rc script execution. 00:02:56 su(1) describes the difference between a full login (-l or -) and the "leave the environment unmodifid" option (-m) 00:03:11 https://termbin.com/5nu3 00:03:41 xxx_user in the rc scripts uses "su -m" 00:04:56 what does "getenv passwd prog" say? 00:05:18 want me to make prog run that like those other commands are? 00:07:23 no such file or dir 00:12:43 can't get your service to run here, most probably what you have pasted is incomplete 00:13:02 and "getent passwd prog" ? 00:14:32 is prog there the bin or user? 00:14:44 just curious about context 00:16:29 That is why your pasted stuff is useless. It should be the user. 00:17:45 saper https://termbin.com/my70 00:24:29 it does not run as-is here, sorry 00:24:54 what do you think prog is? 00:25:08 prog is a bin i made. it runs whatever i tell it to in its config file 00:25:58 I am sure that the extra environment you are seeing on "13" is from the interactive session of some other user. 00:26:19 well they're ran the same way 00:26:31 you can compare /etc/login.conf on the 13 and 14 sytem 00:27:58 why that matter? they both use nologin shell 00:28:28 sorry, no one can help you like this. 00:28:47 speak for yourself. you've been wrong other times 00:28:53 if you dont want to help me then stop 00:29:04 go away 00:29:18 have a better day 00:49:49 sounds like "env" vs "set", global env vs local shell set vars. 00:50:16 you can always export the shell var into the env if you want. 00:50:16 that changed in 13->14? 00:53:33 well i already solved the prob im just trying to find out wtf changed. because freebsd 14 relnotes don't talk about it 01:13:35 https://www.freebsd.org/releases/14.0R/relnotes/ Userland Configuration Changes: 01:13:35 The default shell for the root user is now sh(1), which has many new features for interactive use. d410b585b6f0 01:13:36 Title: FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE Release Notes | The FreeBSD Project 01:13:55 but 'prog' runs as its user not root 01:14:03 so you say its not in the changelog but i see it 01:14:28 how are they connected? 01:15:19 root > daemon > prog's user? 01:15:37 since prog's user is nologin 01:20:05 https://serverfault.com/questions/519215/what-is-the-difference-between-sbin-nologin-and-bin-false 01:20:06 Title: linux - What is the difference between /sbin/nologin and /bin/false? - Server Fault 01:20:08 perhaps 01:20:28 see the ftp section 01:20:41 telnet/ftp w00t! 01:21:00 anyway no clue your problem..just pointing out foobar 01:25:29 ok well ima just assume you're right unless someone that knows says otherwise, that root being sh in 14 changed my daemon > user env to have way less 01:25:47 got a workaround so np. i just use full path to bin 01:30:48 assume nothing! 01:31:37 yeah well you solved the problem, move on to the next fire, to put out. 01:32:05 well i want to understand the why, but i tried 01:32:06 putting out fires! running around...no time 01:36:09 curious yes...which bit flipped...pointing right to it.. i know. 01:36:46 build a test bed, 13 and 14 and compare contrast...2 machines 01:39:02 i did 01:39:09 read back through all of my updates 01:39:19 i put exact same config into 13 and 14 01:39:59 it maybe has to do with rc services now taking -E to set env vars 01:40:05 that's new too 01:40:19 "extend /usr/bin/service with possibility to set env vars" 01:40:22 ahh so you might know the problem..nice 01:43:40 a dentist only has to learn the human mouth once, 8 billion people have generic mouth/teeth foobar. 01:43:54 computer science always changing 01:44:05 you guys faff a lot 01:44:55 amiga,dos,solaris,bsd,linux..always changing..information tech..moving target 01:45:13 damn dentist make buck! 01:45:24 only have to learn things once 01:45:48 meanwhile in computers..things are always changing..learn and re-learn 01:47:30 just saying nothing is written in stone, computer hardware/software is always change. 01:47:36 embrace the change 01:48:01 if i could vear slightly off topic for just a moment 01:48:05 BYE BYE dallas mavericks :D 01:52:01 crapple , m$, oracle, nvidia cant get things correct, and they are billion dollar company's... 01:52:28 https://www.propublica.org/article/microsoft-solarwinds-golden-saml-data-breach-russian-hackers 01:52:29 Title: Microsoft Refused to Fix Flaw Years Before SolarWinds Hack — ProPublica 01:59:16 rennj: Thanks, that did it (the smbios thing). 02:01:15 polarian: I don't think anyone in the BSD world other than Apple would take offense to "libre" or "free". In the OpenBSD community it's even said that the BSD's are generally a lot more free than GNU is due to how restrictive the GPL licenses are. 02:02:21 So it turns out, Google has offered me a job as a janitor for no other reason than to stop the work I'm doing on FreeBSD, because aparently making manuals easier to use represents a threat to their Fuscia project, which is basically Capsicum OS. 02:03:03 concussious: or they are telling you that you are only good at cleaning, and not at programming :P 02:03:21 (I am kidding) 02:03:32 google is like mcdonalds. i own their stock but i try not to use their products 02:03:36 and cocacola 02:03:48 remiliascarlet: well it was simply the fact I have never seen a BSD user ever use the word libre to describe open source code... so I thought would be too much of a fsfism 02:03:52 I'm not good at programming, manuals are doc writing. 02:04:13 concussious: well then you are a great cleaner :P 02:04:18 cleaner of manual pages :P 02:04:44 polarian: Maybe because BSD users tend to be far less of a freetard? Maybe unless you're using HyperbolaBSD, which has still yet to materialize anyway. 02:05:07 freetard? 02:05:08 I thought that was just like, me just being a responsible user and helping out. 02:05:25 BSD has a completely different approach to the concept of free. 02:05:29 I wanted to show you a true historical gold on the OpenBSD mailing list (a fight between Richard Stallman and Theo de Raadt), but seems like marc.info is down at the moment. 02:05:33 we're all very passionate about it actually. 02:05:39 remiliascarlet: I have read them 02:05:49 reading the OpenBSD mailing list is fun 02:06:10 polarian: I started reading OpenBSD mailing list recreationally at age 12. 02:06:20 never knew it was a competition 02:06:25 wait who uses OpenBSD at the age of 12 02:06:29 I didn't 02:06:33 polarian: https://digdeeper.neocities.org/graves/freetardism 02:06:34 Title: Refuting Freetardism 02:06:36 but I found out how funny they were 02:06:50 concussious: how long ago was this 02:06:54 like back when OpenBSD was small 02:07:09 There is a difference between being all about freedom and being a freetard. 02:07:28 The latter is that you take it to such an extreme, that you end up restricting freedom. 02:07:41 remiliascarlet: I like this take 02:07:53 ah so freetards are fsf devout supporters who take the 4 freedoms and the black and white view on software freedom as a holy text 02:07:55 right ok 02:09:10 I go to Ohio Linux Fest every year and drink with everyone, most aren't like that, but the ones that do wrap our ideas in the GPL and then we can never get it back. 02:09:29 I contribute to GPL projects when I can 02:09:46 but I wish the broader GPL movement would respect us more. 02:09:56 they respect your code 02:10:01 once its gift wrapped in GPL 02:10:33 polarian: how long ago did I start reading OBSD lists? that would be maybe 16 years? 02:10:46 gotta give it to proprietary companies, at least they are shameless when it comes to taking code... GPL users will argue how they are making your code more free and protecting it from evil companies until they are blue in the face 02:10:53 concussious: geez 02:11:05 OpenBSD was tiny back then, how does some 12 year old come across it 02:17:02 m$ buying github and pulling that code into copilot, meanwhile m$ winblows source code is off limits 02:17:22 firstly 02:17:25 m$ buying linkedin..pulling in resumes 02:17:28 what microsoft did with copilot is likely illegal 02:17:41 Microsoft doesn't care. 02:17:44 there was a group of lawyers preparing to sue them a year or so ago 02:17:48 but I don't think any materialised 02:17:55 but Microsoft would have no grounds of defense 02:18:01 its blatent copyright infringement 02:18:10 They know that if they are dragged to court, they will just pay a "fine" equivelant to just 2 hours work. 02:18:36 however, windows is microsofts code... and as the rights of FreeBSD code is respected (attribution) you can't expect them to make it open as it would violate their freedom 02:19:09 remiliascarlet: are you trying to prove microsoft is evil or you making a left wing argument about the evils of capitalism... 02:19:22 What the hell? 02:19:29 I'm doing neither. 02:19:35 oh then I am completely confused :P 02:19:43 * polarian is stupid 02:20:03 capitalism reduces everything to a resource, blood banks/plasm donors ...see las vegas 02:20:05 It's literally what is happening pretty much every single year. 02:20:24 plasma donors correction! 02:20:50 It's just that the media likes to say "they have to pay the biggest fines ever", but totally forget to mention how easy it is for them to pay that. 02:21:04 you know your in bad part of town when you got plasma donor clinics ...$1000 a month for resource. 02:22:28 But to make it clear, I have nothing against capitalism, and from what I have seen is that the only people who have something against it tend to be unskilled, unemployed Reddit addicts. 02:23:07 unregulated capitalism is the problem, regulation made in blood 02:23:34 Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire 02:24:25 or read upton sinclair "the jungle" why we have FDA 02:24:41 offtopic 02:24:55 meat packing in Chicago...saw dust for filler 02:25:08 polyex: once politics gets started, it can't be stopped :P 02:25:23 hence why you guys gotta keep it to #freebsd-social 02:25:28 Compare it to Alex Jones for example, who got fined an impossible amount of money, which makes it very clear they just want to financially bankrupt him. But when those same people fine big tech companies, they keep in mind what they make in a year, and only take 1 or 2% of it. 02:25:38 polyex: you got chanop? 02:25:43 no 02:25:46 bah remiliascarlet bogus 02:25:53 that asshole had it coming 02:25:54 wait who are the chanops here? 02:26:05 rennj it's not bogus. a BILLION dollar fine is ridiculous 02:26:09 totally political 02:26:30 Wasn't it way in the trillions? 02:26:52 well sometimes its more profitable to do something illegal and pay the fines, than to not do it 02:26:53 atleast aborition was overturned 02:27:11 rennj: Had what coming? Being wrong on 1 subject? 02:28:48 what reality is it ok..to spew lies? 02:30:04 That would mean that the entirety of the mainstream media would have to be fined trillions of dollars each time they publish an article. 02:30:09 ibm deckstar/deathstar lies...see how that works out 02:30:47 And not just target 1 outlet for 1 misinformation, but give everyone else a free pass to do so all the goddamn time. 02:31:10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deskstar 02:31:11 Title: Deskstar - Wikipedia 02:31:16 i'm so sorry i started the offtopic 02:31:36 how about msdos 6.0 and doublespace/drivespace...destroying user data... 02:32:14 facts or fiction..if you believe alex jones, i cant help you 02:32:29 already to far gone... 02:32:37 its never too late 02:33:12 I don't believe Alex Jones, I simply see politically motivated bullshit from far away. 02:33:59 ok, i don't know who all is interested in my sn770 nvme stalls / zio->io_cv lockups / controller timeouts saga (if anyone), but been running the replacement crucial p3 drive for a few hours doing a ~792 ports build without issue so far *fingers crossed* 02:34:11 So the point is, if it wasn't politically motivated, the treatment he got should have been applied to every other media outlet. 02:34:52 am i in the right channel? wtf 02:35:15 wcarson: yes you are topic derailed 02:38:10 Model: WD_BLACK SN770 1TB is rocking but it has no local dram, uses system ram is my understanding. 02:38:30 i know you got 2TB model.. 02:38:55 zfs has slog/zil also... 02:39:27 To SLOG or not to SLOG 02:40:46 back on topic 02:42:04 How to best configure your ZFS Intent Log.... 02:43:54 https://www.servethehome.com/what-is-the-zfs-zil-slog-and-what-makes-a-good-one/ 02:43:55 Title: What is the ZFS ZIL SLOG and what makes a good one 02:48:05 https://imgur.com/BJGGz http://i.imgur.com/px0V8.jpg and thats like 20 years old early zfs no root boot 02:49:24 sun thumper array..sun 7000 unfied storage Sun Storage 7000 appliance 02:49:37 way before oracle buy 02:50:35 2011 w00t 02:55:36 ram,ssd,spinning rust..hybrid storage..used all 02:55:56 zil/slog on ssd was speed up, 03:00:52 oracle purchase was 2009/2010..but that vm is 2011 03:10:58 forgot to start with 'screen' ;) 03:11:17 ~. 03:11:38 disconnected 06:24:40 anyone know about pf improvements in 14? 06:25:42 specifically scrub fragment reassemble vs set reassemble yes 06:42:01 hey i noticed in 14.1 FreeBSD.conf says https now not http. so pkg.freebsd.org got moved to https? 07:21:01 check the release notes 07:21:19 really nice upgrade 07:21:27 you know about the pf question? 07:23:43 no 07:23:48 ok ty 07:41:09 periodic still grabs vuxml.freebsd.org using http not https 07:41:15 i wonder if that's an oversight? 07:43:16 doubtful; it's a different system, different part of the codebase 07:46:13 freebsd-update still using http btw, not https 07:46:40 so only pkg moved to https. or added it anyway, dunno if http was removed 09:38:05 anyone know about pf improvements in freebsd 14? specifically, is the old "scrub fragment reassemble" the same as the new "set reassemble yes"? 10:24:01 why does 14 have /etc/rc.d/utx enabled by default now? 11:52:18 Chromium is now 2 major versions behind with numerous unpatched cves, I can't seem to find any bugzilla issue blocking its update... 14:06:50 polarian: Sounds like it's about time to switch to lynx. 14:07:03 Or NetSurf or Dillo if it has to be graphical. 14:34:01 Yo! What are my options to avoid passing through "whole" USB stack/bridge to a bhyve VM, to allow it r/w access to host's serial port? Manpage for socat(1) on FreeBSD mentions "b19200 Sets the serial line speed to 19200 baud" and it very much works on Linux, but FreeBSD throws: socat[pid] E parseopts_table(): unknown option "b19200" 14:35:28 To avoid XY problem - I want to program ESP32 boards on FreeBSD. I wasn't successful with any approach on 15-CURRENT so I'm trying to use Linux VM to program host's USB-connected ESP32. 14:54:51 polarian, maybe Google just doesn't care. 15:10:40 CrtxReavr: nah the port... 15:11:58 Okay, then chromium⊙Fo doesn't care. 15:48:48 In a sense, BSD is what Linux used to be up until the early 2010s; gaining more recognition among the nerds, but barely any developers care, because barely anyone else is using it. 15:49:43 Use ispeed or ospeed instead. of "b19200" 15:49:51 see man page 15:50:07 https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=socat 15:50:08 Title: socat 15:51:05 I guess once the BSD's become as big as Linux currently is, all the nerds will just move to Haiku. 15:51:49 Haiku reminds me to what Linux was like in the late 1990s and early 2000s. 15:51:58 Perhaps there will be Unix Wars II 15:52:14 well i used both beos and haiku..and beos needed external box. 15:52:46 https://imgur.com/ul1257x beos epson scsi scanner 15:53:03 https://imgur.com/WecJVQN beos raid0 with usb keychains 15:53:23 Probably not. Back then it was pretty much SYSV vs BSD, the only SYSV Unix that are still being maintained are Oracle Solaris, HP UX, and Illumos. Solaris is slowly but surely being killed, UX is just in maintenance mode, and Illumos is so dead that nobody even cares. 15:54:48 well the HCL is small anyway for illumos kernel 15:54:56 not dead yet 15:56:04 I actually installed OpenIndiana on a laptop one day, and it took literally forever to just fetch updates, then it took even more foreverer to install them, so I got frustrated and replaced it with NetBSD. 15:56:39 I'm seeing OmniOS being mentioned a few times recently https://omnios.org/ 15:56:41 Title: OmniOS Community Edition 15:56:45 https://imgur.com/BjTRUJc oi doing vlc,fvwm,rox,sshfs,youtube-dl 15:57:45 lts: That website takes forever to load. 15:58:06 rennj, old school 15:58:08 nice 15:58:09 i like it 15:58:35 well i am old 15:58:52 https://imgur.com/p95rKOf solaris 10 beta tv card working. 15:59:01 thats fvwm,rox..also 15:59:19 i like fvwm2/rox combo..been using it for 2 decades or so 15:59:26 using it right now 16:00:26 20 year old screenshot 16:02:08 https://imgur.com/OxqoZni amiga! 16:02:22 fvwm2 rocking 16:02:27 * beowuff I should just go ahead and setup a PostgreSQL server in a jail on my freebsd server. I have several other jails that need a db... Oh, but some of them use MySQL or Mongodb, or something else... 16:02:37 * beowuff Guess I'll have to setup pouderie first... 16:02:50 I keep making my task lists longer... 16:03:43 Also, I haven't used fvwm2 in years. Any chance it's Wayland compliant? XD 16:05:17 regis, any luck with ispeed or ospeed instead. of "b19200" ? 16:06:05 would not know, i been avoiding wayland,pulseaudio/pipewire all kinds of foo.. 16:06:47 this os i built is probably my last Xorg/X11R6 or whatever.. 16:07:15 next build probably be pipewire and wayland foobar... 16:07:37 besides dbus and all that other stupid.. 16:07:54 or i could switch to open,net,free bsd's 16:08:46 vmware i know this my last build of that product.. 16:09:24 those 2 kernel modules for that product was always a pain, vmnet.ko/vmmon.ko 16:09:42 2007-2023 pain in the ass 16:09:58 love fixing other people shit code 16:12:26 rennj: nope :( 16:16:00 https://jkeifer.github.io/posts/serial-with-socat/ reading 16:16:01 Title: Serial with socat | Jarrett Keifer 16:16:20 kind like your error 16:18:26 the magic incantation 16:18:35 heh 16:22:26 DCE and DTE must have the same values 16:43:54 athf : "Broodwich" Bread forged in darkness from wheat harvested from Hell's Half-Acre and baked by Beelzebub. 16:44:18 Mayonnaise made from the evil eggs of a powerful dark chicken beaten into sauce by the hands of a one-eyed madman. 16:47:25 Most of the mayonnaise these days is full of seed oils, so I can't recommend it. 16:50:03 yeah Cory Doctorow - Enshittification 16:50:29 olive oil and egg whites..make at home 16:51:16 or is it egg yolks 16:53:19 Enshittification is not a topic I was expecting here, when trying to leech some ESP32 @ FreeBSD experience know-how. 16:53:53 im always off-topic..freebsd-social i guess i should join 16:54:04 All BSDs are stable and there's no serious discussion onb falling into making capitalism-ahdering changes. 16:54:06 kick ban! 16:57:16 his idea apply to not only online content, but to general life..when capitalism reduces everything to a resource.. now donate blood plasma now! 16:58:01 people in las vegas $1000 month for blood plasma, bad hood when it got check cashing,pawn shops, and plasma donation centers. 16:58:30 American capitalism has already undermined people to the level of resource and a mine of information transferred to wealth. 16:59:06 opensource and freesoftware is idealist foobar 17:00:21 rennj: May I ask what is your perspective on this? 17:01:09 everything is a resource, i said... 17:01:39 where is my blood boy, need youth transfusion. 17:01:48 hbo silicon valley... 17:01:57 So, purely cost efficient approach. Ok. 17:02:17 observation of the system i live in 17:02:46 i can''t solve worlds problems on computer problems 17:02:52 i can''t solve worlds problems only computer problems 17:05:00 The thing is: people used as a workforce in the current system are exploited. Corporations profit from this. Lawmakers profit from these corporations' growth. It's literally an absurd to expect these lawmakers punish the cows that feed them. 17:06:19 So let's not go as far as "worlds problems" but just fucking decouple US lawmakerws from the stock/ownership level they hold on the entitties they pretend they rule about. 17:10:07 The Century of the Self 17:12:31 Looks like this chanel is about to go full politics mode again... 17:15:18 the bsd's rock but 1995 was already 25 years of unix. plan9 and lucent really fucked up 17:15:18 on topic ? 17:16:08 stupid https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/captive-portal kicks me off every 24hours..hotels/starbucks..bah 17:16:09 Title: Captive portal detection | Firefox Help 17:16:44 i need firefox around just to login to network, chrome doesnt seem to work at all for that captive-portal 17:17:27 phone chrome works for that stupid, but linux chrome doesn't seem to know anything 17:25:29 rennj: agreed 17:25:39 about the unix comment 19:28:53 Howdy, folks! 19:29:25 Well, i managed to beat shareware quake today on this FreeBSD testing laptop of mine. 19:32:37 Then again, for a laptop that uses a single intel I386 CPU, and a Nvidia GPU with GL 3.3, it's not that bad running FreeBSD on it. 20:53:58 when I do adduser and it asks if the user should be encrypted, I would like to confirm this is additional (home directory) encryption, and the zfs FDE should still encrypt the home directory even if the user home directory isn't encrypted? 20:54:02 correct? 21:44:40 you're using ZFS native encryption? 21:44:54 or geli? 21:45:09 https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/freebsd-14-1-whats-new-and-how-did-we-get-here.93669/ 21:45:10 Title: FreeBSD 14.1: What’s new, and how did we get here? | The FreeBSD Forums 21:45:12 Adduser Utility Enhancements: The adduser(8) utility now automatically creates a ZFS dataset for new user home directories if the parent directory resides on a ZFS dataset. This feature supports ZFS encryption, providing enhanced security for user data. 21:46:08 i assume it wouldnt offer the option with geli/gbde foo 21:50:11 yeah. looks that way 22:11:47 any pf users, i have set reassemble yes, but should i add "no-df"? just not sure on best practices 22:37:45 psycorama: whatever the installer does, so geli I believe 22:38:14 its still geli decryption on boot 22:38:27 so that's under the fs 22:38:41 thus all datasets are encrypted...? 22:38:49 just verifying my hypothesis 23:16:26 chpass says -e expiretime. but wtf does it mean for an account to "expire"? 23:30:14 see passwd gecos fields 23:30:32 hp-ux did /etc/passwd better then anyone else i think.. 23:31:01 expire the passwd every 90 days, and kept db of users old passwd so they could reuse them.. 23:31:09 expire the passwd every 90 days, and kept db of users old passwd so they couldnt reuse them.. 23:31:53 all that sun would need to be in nis+ or ldap foo, local box couldnt do that 23:32:28 https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=passwd&sektion=5 23:32:29 Title: passwd(5) 23:32:35 expire Account expiration time. 23:34:39 gecos General information about the user. bah..memory fart 23:35:47 "expire" means the account is no longer valid; observable effect: the user will not be able to login. 23:38:06 time is a misnomer, as it is a only a date it wants. Experimentation suggests expiry is at the end of that day. 23:39:57 nope, at the beginning of the date you put in there. 23:40:53 sinc unix epoch 23:41:30 1 January 1970, the Unix epoch 23:41:50 leave it blank like man page says for no expire 23:48:59 time_t has been widened to 64 bits. This expands the times representable to about 292.3 billion years in both directions, which is over twenty times the present age of the universe. haha 23:49:02 BinGOs user can't login, so that's the same as pw lock? 23:50:11 because setting pass to -w no, that disables password auth but other kinds can work like ssh key login, but pw lock disables any form of auth 23:52:42 haven't tried ssh key login, but account expiration is useful, say you give an account to someone who you know is on a fixed contract, for instance. You set the expiration for their end date. You don't then have to worry about remembering to delete their account when they leave. 23:53:14 ya i wonder if the expire code and lock code follow same code path