hello

so bascially zfs only shines with 4 drives at least?

hello everyone, freebsd beginner here, i was wondering if i can mix ports and binary packages

or if i should stick just to one of those two options

In theory you can mix them. However, it is not recommended.

I did mix them in the past without any issues, but you can run into some problems with eg. version mismatches

souji: and how do you solve such mismatches?

but maybe there is way to keep a separate environment for example just for binary precompiled?

skeemer: I think you would have to checkout your ports tree on the same commit as the ports tree used to build the packages.

you might be able to keep separate enviroments using jails, but this depends on what you ar planing to do...

souji: yeah sure even with jails seems cool

like on netbsd with pkgsrc you can bootstrap different environments where you keep your stuff

is there something similar infreebsd?

Not tham I'm aware of

As long as you dont need X11 or some special hardware jails might be the best choice

is QuBSD (FreeBSD-based) good?

experienced an issue where a UFS filesystem did not free up space, until i unmounted a nullfs mount coming from a directory on the filesystem. wondering if anyone else has run into this, a difference of about 30% of the total filesystem capacity

all the operations (writing, and then deleting, to free up space) were taking place inside the nullfs mountpoint

i thought it had to do with heavy load, but then it still did not free up the space after the load stopped

afk for a bit

I have to pivot away from freebsd. Too much issues for a desktop user. Any suggestions on what would be the second best OS for server + desktop usage? Though I know its not good to mix both.?

Avoid Arch, NixOS then. Try Alma Linux or Debian perhaps

Wait ... MacOs or Windows even

ok

Also, not sure if btrfs would be less evil than ext4. I do not want to diskcheck on power outages. ext4 was a pain in this regard for me.

parv: will go with debian I think

Doubt {Open,Net}BSD would fare any better than FreeBSD

parv: open/net would be same for desktop users. even worse i think

Can't say; haven't tried

ok

"ZFS on Linux" may (not) be available

it is..

These days it seems like NetBSD tends towards being an IDE for developing the NetBSD Packages collection.

tmp_: I see

well, without knowing what your issues where it is hard to make suggestions

When dealing with Linux, I've had a better experience with xfs than ext4. Haven't tried btrfs.

I am on freebsd and a disk with zfs FS that is encrypted with geli. I want to move to linux and in linux, there is no geli. Can I decrypt the geli disk and use that in linux?

rephrase:

I've been using FreeBSD for server & desktop use. I tackle it from the server end and get a good enough desktop as a side effect.

I am on freebsd and a disk that is encrypted with geli. That disk has zfs FS. I want to move to linux and in linux, there is no geli. Can I decrypt the geli disk and use that in linux?

tmp_: I have wacom pen issues, brave browser, netflix, \

if you want to use ZoL then make sure the OS you choose treats it as first class citizen

freebsd is just not made for desktop users. debian is ok for server and deskop

nimaje: zol?

(some effort of making GELI available on Linux has popped up recently)

parv: any package?

nimaje: what do you mean by zol ?

ZFS on Linux

Beladona, That is still in development

nimaje: debian is on the list.

parv: ok so what options do I have?

rsync

nimaje: not sure how debian will treat zfs

parv: for rsync, I have to have another disk and copy data there

zfs send zfs recv

same for that AlexC

cool

do not have another disk

yep

you need one

can I just decrypt geli disk?

on linux? no

on freebsd?

that's a good question, I never tried it

does geli provides that option ?

that's possible: forums.freebsd.org/threads/trying-to-mount-geli-zfs.74914

Title: Solved - Trying to mount Geli ZFS | The FreeBSD Forums

armin: I am talking about decrypting geli disk permanently.

Beladona: That's possible, too, as long as you're not over-simplifying the fact that it's a multi-step process. :)

ok, englighten me

Well you can't do that on the fly, I believe?

armin: how do I decrypt the disk permenently?

Beladona: again, there's no "one step solution".

armin: plan: Decrypt geli disk. The plug that to linux. Simply use zfs FS as the disk had zfs files in it.

Shrink the geli partition? To leave space for an unencrypted zpool?

armin: are are the steps of this multi step soltuionL

Beladona: well you can *unlock* the volume, that way you can *access* the data, copy it somewhere else, and so on.

armin: that is not "decrypting" the disk permanently. Its an indirect hack.

armin: but ok. I got the idea if that is the oNLY option I have

Beladona: I doubt it's possible "in-place" if that's what you're after.

ok

hm, zfs seems to be in contrib for debian, could be ok

I wish freebsd was a better desktop os and more community . I would not need another OS for lifetime

geli has functions for resize, but I've only seen it used for grow, not shrink. If shrink is an option, then shrink to half the disk, create an unencrypted partition with a second zpool....

tmp_: ok

Beladona: It's pretty much perfect as a desktop, even if you need Wayland and all the whistles, though.

Depends on having at least half the existing zpool empty.

s/empty/free/

Does bsdinstaller not use whole-disk any more & installs in a partition?

tmp_: or having another zpool, or being able to send the data somewhere else temporarily, or whatever, but yes.

hm, but zfs currently lacks the ability to shrink pools? or did that change?

armin: I can't use netflix, wacom pen / tablet makes x11 mad, cannot trace the reason, stuck with luajit obs, neovim, postgresql compatibility issues. Have mic/ sound issues. freebsd is rigit on that. I am sure I will have more driver/ hardware issues in futrue

tmp_: I thought you couldnt reduce the size of a zfs partition.

Ot

tmp_: at least without moving everything off and redoing it from scratch

That's not something I've dug into. I dunno.

armin: less options of apps, dev tools. e.g can't run puppeteer in node.js. no nvm (node verison manager). less dev tools support for freebsd

armin: much lesser community support

Just the only thought I've had given the constraint of a single disk.

armin: all these things drift one away from freebsd

armin: what's your take on that/

Beladona: don't drift towards openbsd then. ;-)

Beladona: I mean yea of course not everything "just works" in the BSD world, and the question is if you can live with the restrictions.

armin: I am not drifting towards openbsd. I am drifting towards debain

Beladona: Well I won't keep you from doing so. :)

armin: cannot breath freely with those restricitons. though freebsd as the core is my favourite os

Beladona: I wouldn't say less. Different in some cases. If you're just looking for a raw platform to use for a desktop, then the only real selling point is the educational value. Staying on FreeBSD forces you to learn how to think and problemsolve.

Beladona: Because on FreeBSD you can solve *any* problem.

Beladona: Learning the skills to do so in a reasonable amount of time is the hard part.

setesh: yes but it is requiring a lot of my time for tweaking

setesh: tweaking things for which freebsd is not built or is lacking in its core

That's something that improves over time.

I personally feel like the levels of indirection when solving problems are much lower on *BSD compared to Linux.

setesh: ok how to use netflix on freebsd in the journeyu of solving any problem?

I never used NetFlix, so I can't say.

Using netflix on freebsd only delays solving problems. <.<

setesh: or allow nvm (node version manager) or pupeteer to work in freebsd

setesh: correct.

using netflix period

lol

I know it has something to do with proprietary video streaming and DRM, but that's it.

the platform may not support your specific tooling

it supports the tooling needed to make it support your tooling tho

if you want an end user OS... you're in the wrong place

setesh: just an exmaple when all /most linux world supports the tooling and freebsd does not. Things go suffocating

FreeBSD has no intention of enabling you to do stupid things. You can watch a movie with "mpv", though. :)

None of the BSDs are intended to be Windows

or give you the Mac experience

setesh: seems like debian solves the issue of "end user OS" + "server os"

If you want it to support your specific tooling... make it support your tooling?

Beladona: netflix is probably because of drm stuff and might be solvable with www/linux-widevine-cdm and www/foreign-cdm

Use Debian then? We won't keep you from doing so.

armin: its not just movies. Its wacom pen, nodejs, pupeteer, nvm, a whole slue of tools thigns

or find a friend in the project who is willing to port and maintain what you want

Beladona: Again, nobody forces you to use either of both, use what works for you.

Yes, because people have different tools to accomplish their goals and use those instead, so that's what they port and support

if you want your tooling, port your tooling

nimaje: that "might be" is a time consuming less % solvable in my opinion

Eh, you get faster as you get better.

Much faster.

setesh: port?

Title: FreeBSD Porter's Handbook | FreeBSD Documentation Portal

setesh: true. side note; for another topic: the fastest human on earth is bottlenecked by "one person" and 24 hours a day.

Freebsd is a group effort. It isn't a company that exists to supply convenience. It's just people like you, making the stuff they use themselves, work on it.

setesh: at that point, he needs more and more leverage in form of team, systems, etc

setesh: I see

Automation helps. Over time you build up more comfort with tooling, and a large supply of code to do most tasks faster and easier.

setesh: whats your take on having freebsd inside virtualbox as guest and having debian as host?

That paired with ever growing ability to track down information resources and navigate/parse those into an organized final document to learn or use as a guide to hacking out prototypes, makes a huge difference.

armin: tmp_: might also comment ^

Eh, I don't mind it? Wrong way around for my personal preferences tho :p

but tooling is tooling

ok

do what youre comfortable with and fits your use case

setesh: freebsd as guest, debian as host of virtualbox?

Beladona, Why would you want to use FreeBSD on Debian?

I've mostly run into the Devuan distro for the last while. I'm not up to date on other Linux distros. Devuan is okay.

If you have good reasons for why, then it's a good idea. If you don't then its no different than if you were running freebsd as the host and running debian in a bhyve. If your use case makes it actually counterproductive, then don't.

hm, why not freebsd as host and debian in bhyve?

Just reason from first principles

Nobody else has the recipe for your favorite flavor of soup

(or just in a chroot via linux emu)

only you do

I don't have any experience with Linux as a virtualbox host though.

parv: freebsd will have the server apps. debian will have the desktop apps

why not just throw your server apps in docker?

lower overhead

less effort than running an freebsd vm for it

freebsd is amazing for its license, the stability of its stack, the structure and coherence of its codebase that make it easy to riff off for your own purposes

debian has different perks to it

if what debian provides is what you need, use debian

At some point you'll realize that every operating system sucks anyways.

(honestly though, the reason I stick around freebsd is the community. They're all assholes. But brilliant, loveable assholes, that if you're willing to swallow your ego you can learn a ton from)

And maybe it takes a couple of days, or a couple of years, and then you'll come back to #freebsd and say hello. Done that, been there. Countless times.

armin: so infuriatingly true D:

Is anyone using FreeBSD on Thinkpad T14 with Intel 13th generation i5 or AMD Ryzen 5 Pro 7540 U or 7 Pro 7840U? How are battery life, & OS with Intel E, P cores?

I see

Do AMD Thinkpad versions have non-Intel ethernet NIC?

the OS core matters. So porting the toolset in docker won't be enough

I plan to use freebsd as guest in side debian host via virtualbox. Freebsd will have zfs. That is a COW FS. If host also has btrfs, (a COW). then there can be problems. I do not want ext4 as it is not good for power outage/ system crashes.

parv: the problem with the T14 laptops is probably wifi: forums.freebsd.org/threads/lenovo-t…or-freebsd-with-a-wifi-caveat.88856

Title: Lenovo ThinkPad T14 Gen 2 AMD - a fine laptop for FreeBSD (with a wifi caveat) | The FreeBSD Forums

Beladona: I assume podman uses that linux emu stuff so that linux docker images run correctly, but have not looked into it freshports.org/sysutils/podman

Title: FreshPorts -- sysutils/podman: Manage Pods, Containers and Container Images

armin, Thanks

nimaje: ok. but what Fs to use for debian

At least for Thinkpad T14 Gen 2, not 4 (have not checked), AMD, NIC is RealTek -- well, not need to look further for a wifi card (1 in [45] chance it would have been Intel AX200)

Well, that makes choice easier to not remove AMD Thinkpad from consideration

s/to not/, will/

nimaje: the main purpose of the podman port is to run OCI containers, and the main focus of the work is on FreeBSD jails, i reckon Linux still just works, unless you're trying to run some funky APIs that we don't support yet

I wonder why people are so obsessed with being able to fully replace an operating system with another one.

armin: mostly because of the software they want to run

meena: I currently struggle *HARD* time with being able to get my custom DWM build to compile on FreeBSD myself, but hey, if it doesn't work, it likely needs just a bit of work.

meena: Yea I mean I had that problem myself and just decided to try SpectrWM instead, runs just fine, I'm of course missing my custom DWM, but meh, will probably simply take me anouther couple of days to find out how to get that to work, all good.

meena: Then on Linux I run Mixxx for DJing and Renoise for music making, no idea if I will ever get even one out of these two to work on FreeBSD, at all.

armin: freshports.org/audio/mixxx maybe

Title: FreshPorts -- audio/mixxx: DJ mixing application

meena: yup I could probably get that to work. :)

oh wow! I managed to get my custom DWM to compile.

neato.

ok now that's cool!

armin: congrats

Beladona: OpenBSD works better as a desktop OS than FreeBSD does, which is ironic, because FreeBSD is the one boasting "you can run FreeBSD on a desktop", whereas OpenBSD is completely silent about that. If it needs to be Linux, then Artix works fine, or either Gentoo or Crux if more flexibility is required, or Devuan if more of that so-called "stability" is desired (but you will have to deal with

a very dogmatic design in return).

Or Alpine if you want something more aligned with OpenBSD, but with a Linux kernel.

maybe i should try the recent 14.0 release?

I hope that FreeBSD 14.0 will support more Realtek chipsets, though.

Currently, pfSense 2.7 doesn't seem to be able to make use of the Realtek card.

remiliascarlet: ok. wha tis your take on debian? openbsd will still have driver, netflix, wacom pen, other issues.

Beladona: The good: all the server side tutorials you can find online are specific to Debian. The bad: software in the default repositories are ancient, they meddle with packages, different structure from what Linux was designed to be, pushes systemd really hard, hostile community (which is what you naturally get if you have a huge userbase filled with newbies).

Driver support is in the kernel, so it's not distro specific. Same with Wacom pen, although drivers can be written separately, but should work on any distro.

As for Netflix, I don't have Netflix, so no comment.

rtorrent is the best streaming service.

testing out FreeBSD14 in the example make.conf just znver3 seams supported but FBSD14 has llvm16 (znver4 supported) and ports are compiled with znver4, documentation bug?

You a troll or an idiot?

CrtxReavr: That's a clever way of saying "I disagree with you".

remiliascarlet: ok. I think ubuntu and debian would be same in terms of usability. I have ubuntu experience of years but pivoting myself away from ubuntu due to snaps and debian being more stable

If Snaps are a concern, and you want to use something similar to Ubuntu, then Debian might be the better option.

Otherwise Devuan, which is Debian without systemd.

remiliascarlet: I want to have zfs on debian. and maybe have freebsd as guest os via kvm in debian.

I don't have experience with that one, I just have a FreeBSD server in my room.

ok

hm, maybe installing libwacom helps for the wacom pen, but no idea

I'm a bit surprised I don't find "signal-desktop" in pkg.

Am I overlooking something obvious?

? freshports.org/net-im/signal-desktop

Title: FreshPorts -- net-im/signal-desktop: Cross-platform centralized encrypted messaging service

pkg on latest or quarterly?

it is only in ports

there doesn't seem to be a package for electron, probably to heavy for the builders to build or something like that

ok

oh, electron seems to be blacklisted on the builders pkg-status.freebsd.org/beefy16/buil…132amd64-default&build=021f5c74a690 (search for electron in ignored)

:)

Title: Poudriere bulk results

thank you!

and bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=270565

Title: 270565 – electron* ports are blacklisted from the build

Hm. I'm legit unable to mount an SMB share.

Samba installed?

armin: What command are you using?

souji: mount_smbfs //192.168.1.40/white /mnt/white

souji: tried some kind of permutations, -I <IP>, -N, //user@<ip>/white and so on.

and what is the error, if there is any?

mount_smbfs: can't get server address: syserr = Operation timed out

this here works however: smbclient -I 192.168.1.40 -U armin //armin@nirvana/white

that opens a shell where i can just "ls"

I think mount_smbfs only supports SMBv1

is that maybe a solution? unix.stackexchange.com/questions/42…yntax-for-mounting-smbfs-in-freebsd

Title: samba - Correct syntax for mounting smbfs in FreeBSD? - Unix & Linux Stack Exchange

while smbclient also supports SMBv2/3

mount_smbfs doesn't work properly with smbv2 and beyond

look at the stackexchange link

hmm

so how do I get smbv2 in such case?

am i going down a bad rabbit hole, if i try to mirror freebsd 13.2 on my local network? i am now increasing my footprint of freebsd machines.. but reading mirroring documents it says they are not accepting mirrors..

armin: use samba and smbclient

mount_smbfs -I 10.10.10.10 -U someuser -W someworkgroup //someuser⊙1111/somesharename /mnt/somemountname

voy4g3r2: you want to build a mirror of the package repos and release servers? probably that doc means your mirror wouldn't get included in the official list of mirrors and the geo-dns setup

armin@moog ~ = sudo mount_smbfs -I 192.168.1.40 -U armin -W WORKGROUP //armin⊙111/white /mnt/white

Password:

mount_smbfs: unable to open connection: syserr = Operation timed out

armin@moog ~ =

Nixkernal: ^

armin: is it SMBv1? if not then mount_smbfs won't work (cc Nixkernal)

in smb.conf change client ntlmv2 auth = no AND ntlm auth = yes ?

nimaje: that is what i am reading but this section is saying.. don't do that, it is bad: docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/hubs/#mirror-pkgs

Title: Mirroring FreeBSD | FreeBSD Documentation Portal

i'll read a little more.. as i got the space localy but do not want to cause "problems"

armin try this: wiki.freebsd.org/MateuszPiotrowski/AccessingSmbSharesWithSambaClient

Title: MateuszPiotrowski/AccessingSmbSharesWithSambaClient - FreeBSD Wiki

voy4g3r2: ah, yes, put a caching proxy in between instead of mirroring, bandwidth is not just your problem

Nixkernal: smbclient does in fact work, i have zero clue how to get fstab mount to work, though

nimaje: yup, figuring centralization of basic things and the outliers reach out to the servers.. proxy service here i come. thank you for confirmation, as i thought i was "misreading"

maybe forums.freebsd.org/threads/nginx-as…hing-proxy-for-freebsd-update.41350 can help you

Title: nginx as caching proxy for freebsd-update | The FreeBSD Forums

nimaje: oh sweet! thank you!

this is something i can dive into after my chores.. living in the woods sucks during the fall.. the leaves!

armin: you yould try it with fusefs-smbnetfs that uses samba pastebin.com/tHa01gYD

Title: $ mkdir $HOME/windows_share# pkg install fusefs-smbnetfs# cat /etc/fstab.. - Pastebin.com

In /etc/make.conf I have: lang_gcc13_LANGUAGES= c,c++,fortran,jit,m2,objc,obj-c++ Yet when I did the compile it seems to have just done the default set that is in /usr/ports/lang/gcc13/Makefile --> LANGUAGES:= c,c++,objc,fortran,jit because in the config.status --> --enable-languages=c,c++,fortran,jit,lto,objc Have I missed something ?

why would lang_gcc13_LANGUAGES override LANGUAGES?

some of the other variables I have in /etc/make.conf are irc_irssi_SET+= WITH_DEBUG so I just used '=' instead of '+=' to override it. Am I completely off the mark ?

that is <option-name>_{,UN}SET to set options from make.conf, why would there be some generic mechanism to override arbitrary variables via make.conf? change the ports makefile for that if you really want to do that

Nixkernal: thx!

what good torrent client for freebsd?

qbittorrent has served me well but haven't tried others.

la_mettrie: transmission?

rtorrent?

Is there a way to primary use packages, but tag a handful of "packages" as port-only, for like things you need non-default built options for?

*primarily.

Beladona: ktorrent

CrtxReavr: I believe the "usual" way is to use "make package"

rtorrent is my favourite, but it can be a bit tricky to use

hello folks

hello

hows it going?

ld-elf.so.1: /usr/local/lib/libgtk-3.so.0: Undefined symbol "epoxy_glXQueryExtension"

how's it going for you?

rtprio, trying to relax and settle on a decent computing experience atm. And for some reason my connection sucks

out of my control I guess, i can't trouble shoot right now. So just trying to settle in and chat a bit.

learn about computers and whatnot, hopefully I'm in the right spot lol

dev.freshports.org has a new feature for searching by package name: it now searches the package flavors. re FreshPorts/freshports #481 - please test and provide feedback. - thanks.

Title: freshports search for <package name> yields no results for some existing packages · Issue #481 · FreshPorts/freshports · GitHub

481 – this is a junk PR bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=481

^ interesting how that showed up.