i'm guessing no, but is there any tool that aids in moving the contents of an OS drive to a new one? like boot from USB, run magic tool to archive the OS drive, remove drive, plug in new one, magic tool restores to new drive?

i installed freebsd to a very old, small nvme drive to experiment with it. i wasn't expecting to make it my primary OS, but here i am :)

markmcb: ZFS eases that kind of thing significantly.

mason: yeah, i was thinking from the usb boot i could zfs send the existing install to a network drive, pop in the new drive, let the installer do the partition setup, then zfs receive the backup (or something to that effect)

that is basically it, and installing the bootloader

hey

any way with rc(8) to restart daemons that depend on another daemon? for instance, I have a 'nitter' script in local rc.d depending on the 'redis' script

and also there's the issue with having to make scripts like 'redis_pre' or 'tor_pre' that set up ramdisks, etc before the stock, unmodified script is invoked, as per rcorder(8)

sthalik: i would just modify the stock rc scripts to include pre_start / post_stop.

(actually, i would rather burn all of rc down rc write a single line of shell, but that's a different story)

daemon(8) isn't that bad actually

even without pid files

sthalik: true. daemon is class. but we don't have dependency chains in daemon, and we should keep it that way

the good news is: living in etc, if you modify any rc scripts, pkg won't just overwrite them on an upgrade

with pkg base, pkg will overwrite them

rc scripts are not considered as config files aka no 3 way merge

bapt: but just in Base, right?

pkg uses 3-way merge?

that's nice

sthalik: yes pkg uses 3-way merge for files marked as config (only used for pkgbase)

meena: for ports it is the same it will overwrite them

am the

al the more reason to burn rc sooner rather later

why ?

bapt: i find it very inadequate for a modern Unix

how so ?

what do you miss?

(I know many flaws of rc(8) and I have even written my own alternatives 10 years ago), but I am always curious of what people have in mind when they claim that

bapt: i got some arguments summarised here, scratchpad.pkgbase.live/Tn-dtb8OT--CttN1Djn8lw#

Title: jrc: Principles - HedgeDoc

so you want to address "missing features" more than flaws from what I am reading

which mean just providing jrc along with rc will just work not need to replace it in this case

I have a writeup of that, too, actually

Title: meetings/supervision at master · freebsd/meetings · GitHub

flaws being racy natures of pid, relying on pidfiles, the restart being unreliable with "upgrade" of the rc file

oh i definitely wanna get rid of pid files

a process can excapt supervision on any of the tools in base easily and escape process tracking entirely

I've been looking for an adequate API for years now. we think that login classes might be good enough, but I haven't had time to explore it fully

basically, i want something like Solaris contract(5) illumos.org/man/5/contract (because Linux groups is… a bit too much) something that can be orthogonal to jail(2)

Title: illumos: manual page: contract.5

port it?

yuripv: that's an option, but I would rather see if something organic can appear from existing BSD APIs

meena: I was trying to bait them into revealing exactly that.

sthalik: what's leading you to need to restart an entire dependency chain?

debdrup, nitter breaks silently on redis restart

sthalik: seems like it'd be better to fix that ;)

well, it's written in nim

Time to learn nim then! :P

Or find someone willing to work on it for you

I would imagine that if you're dealing with it, you're probably not the only person.

debdrup: bait who into revealing what? huh?

meena: the cryptocurrency/AI person

the thing that could revolutionise the world?

it's secret, actually (but I'll tell you anyway if you ask me)

RhodiumToad: is it time for quickcheck yet?

?

this isn't a bug that could be reproduced by simple tests

"yaay" heisenbugs.

RhodiumToad: QuickCheck isn't just a simple test, it's thousands or hundred thousands of simple tests, but, yeah, you'd have to write the basic structure, and not all code lends itself to this kind of testing

this is some weird interaction between a shell script (special_media) and automountd

i just realised, sthalik was running nitter. what good is running nitter these days when you can't really access anything anymore on twitter without an account?

meena, they fixed it

twitter's "you have to log in to read" lasted like 2 days before being reverted

turns out it was bad idea???? who could possibly have predicted this

i can see no replies here, twitter.com/FractalEcho/status/1681632336771796992 - and i can't believe that not dozens of people wouldn't really with "same lol" or "yikes" to this

Title: Rua M. Williams on Twitter: "This is not an email I ever expected to receive or send. t.co/5IBBhlvKcQ" / Twitter

meena, nitter.misaki.pl/FractalEcho/status/1681632336771796992

Title: Rua M. Williams (@FractalEcho): "This is not an email I ever expected to receive or send." | nitter

sthalik: thanks

"nitter" isn't really federated in the way mastodon is; every instance stands on its own

twitter broke showing tweets with context

unless youre.logged in i think?

rtprio: indeed. didn't realise nitter still shows them

anyone else see that download/upload rates in ports btop seem to be reversed ? or am i seeing things ?

no way im uploading at 20Mbps when im capped at 10

maybe im reading it wrong but the up symbol is higher than the down symbol

feeling like this is a dislexic programming issue

just trying to narrow this down

nvm streaming to the tv... was being to lazy and not pulling up wireshark

screen sharing threw me off

CmdLnKid: Haha.

systat in DragonFlyBSD has both a sensors display, as well as a netbw display, that I'd absolutely love to have in FreeBSD (though the first requires a fair about of modification, as FreeBSD would need to have a sensors framework first)

got a patch ? ;) but in all seriousness that would be pretty cool

I'm going to try asking this again to see if I get any tips: I have some extra machines lying around and I'm interested in PXE booting them into FreeBSD and Linux variants (depending on the need). Are there any good web UI-based tools you all might recommend which could run out of a jail to make it easy to boot machines with a particular image?. I'm kind of interested in something similar to

Ganeti but for booting real machines rather than VMs

debdrup: we have no sensors framework??

is it possible to encode permissions, ownership, chflags, etc, in tar separate from actual input files?

(trying to find ways to make rootless building easier)

how do you mean?

it actually is possible with libarchive to generate entirely synthetic metadata or even data for tar files and other archives

but do we have a tool in Base which can do that?

afaik there's no easy tool for it, yet

I've pondered making a lua binding for libarchive

I already did a guile binding, so I have some experience

rtyler: I'm surprised ganeti cannot be used with real machines

meena: it could be done with a "manifest" file in pkg describing all that (i don't know if pkg actually supports it, just an idea from at least pkg5 in illumos)

rtyler: no guis that i know of; netbooting freebsd can have a lot of options

rtyler: maybe cobbler could help with this

meena: doesn't mtree include most of those things?

meena: as far as I am aware ganeti doesn't do anything with the provisioning of the instances which VMs run on top of, once you have that base layer of things that do xen/kvm, it takes over from there

I was planning to port ganeti to freebsd once but lost interest because haskell... though it looks like it's mostly python these days

yeah, we used cobbler with ganeti at our institution

i mean, it's just a fancy dhcpd re-writer and some icing

yeah, cobbler could sit at the bottom here I suppose. I was hoping to stay a lot more in FreeBSD land however

I remember using cobbler for something… long ago

peach and/or apple prepared in a dutch oven is spectacular

summer time is peach cobbler time :D

Mungo Jerry! youtube.com/watch?v=wvUQcnfwUUM

Title: Mungo Jerry - In The Summertime ORIGINAL 1970 - YouTube

hello I want to make it so that python works

right now I type python3

is there a way to do this I forget

I did it on my other computer manipulated the versions

sixpiece: python3 is provided by the package python3, which is just a symlink

it's not more than that something in the etc?

sixpiece: more likely in /usr/local/bin

ok so I just create another one for python and that's all?

sixpiece: what are you trying to accomplish? what's going wrong right now? and what have you tried to mitigate it?

while I'm asking stupid questions, anybody running GitHub Self-hosted runners on FreeBSD?

sixpiece, Create the symbolic link in ~/bin to $LOCALBASE/python3; put ~/bin in PATH; rehash (if applicable); done

I think that's it I am just setting up the virtual environment and it's my habit to type python I thought it was more complicated than that , thank you

sixpiece, Right in that case "activate" (in case of "venv") may be what you are looking for

what does rehash do?

how do you rehash

?

just type it

:)

sixpiece, Do check the doc for whatever you use to set up an virtual environment to pollute PATH

sixpiece: Best docs I'm seeing are in the csh man page.

sixpiece, In case of "zsh", "rehash" remakes its list of the commands available in "$PATH"

thank you parv mason meena

parv: I think that's the case everywhere it's implemented.

mason, Hey, just CYA

mission accomplished for now and I appreciate your help to familiarize me with these concepts

there's a python3 meta-package to install the symlink for you

s/Y/My/

parv: Yeah, that's a reasonable stance actually.

If this is Python (makes sign against evil) virtual environments are probably the same way to go.

sixpiece: ^

Oh, parv already covered that.

sixpiece: If you use a venv activate, remember that you source it into your current running shell.

So... . foo/bin/activate

thank you mason yes I have that I have django installed now

cool

I'm having to use this stuff for automated testing, so it's freshly on my mind.

Not a Python fan though.

I'm not sure why I picked python but I guess I started it so I should at least get my project done

bash.org/?400459 (i couldn't miss the opportunity)

Title: QDB: Quote #400459

:-)

thank you going to head out for a walk

have a good day au revoir

just get some sun etc..

meena: not in the sense that there's an api through which one can access all available sensors; the best we got is being some sysctl values which uses coretemp/amdtemp. The main issue is the huge amount of lift-up in order to access even a minor amount of the sensors; look at librehardwaremonitor as an example of everything that needs to be done

debdrup: and dragonfly has such a thing?

and it's worth noting that even if lhm ships as a library, it's written in c#

iirc we had something (gsoc work?) in '00s, but it didn't work for some reason

so it's not like we can just yoink it even if the code is mozillas public license (which at least nominally should be able to get it into base, with approval by core)

yuripv: it fell on its face because of the amount of undocumented APIs that such a thing needs to handle

Title: cvs commit: src/etc Makefile sensorsd.conf src/etc/defaults rc.conf src/etc/rc.d Makefile sensorsd src/lib/libc/gen sysctl.3 src/sbin/sysctl sysctl.8 sysctl.c src/share/man/man5 rc.conf.5 src/share/man/man9 Makefile sensor_attach.9 src/sys/conf files ...

<3 phk

for example, motherboard fan sensors - you'd think that'd be simple, because it's all superio, right?

well, there's almost 60 different chips, and a substancial amount of them have their own API

and if it's on an LPC bus, there's at least 20 more

kudos to the lhm folks, but i can't envision anyone doing that without being the only thing they work on

"is the road that leads to things like SYSV IPC" lol

Does any of you use FreeBSD at Yandex Cloud?

tmic: do they have a free tier?

also, do they use cloud-init?

should i be worrying about supporting them?

Meena cloud.yandex.com/en/docs/billing/concepts/trial-period

Title: Trial period for new clients | Yandex Cloud - Documentation

Meena worrying about what?

tmic: i'm the main FreeBSD developer on the cloud-init project

i'm also very tired and should goto sleep

Go sleep then :)

Let me check that cloud-init

cloud.yandex.com/en/docs/compute/operations/image-create/custom-image looks like they just use ec2

Title: Preparing your disk image | Yandex Cloud - Documentation

should work!

(should work as well as Vultr does.)

right, sleep.

Meena tomorrow let me know about it

tomorrow is another Mina does Childcare day because kiddo refuses to goto summer camp… so… it might be another (late? after?)noon before I get to my laptop.

Tomorrow or after tomorrow, life is eternal, can be at FreeBSD 80 version :P

tmic: rough estimate of when my code will be released

hello! i'd like to setup a freebsd server with zfs with the ability to let users have their own encrypted folders. with encrytped datasets, this seems possible - but I want the user to be able to remotely login, decrypt and mount their dataset, and also be able to umount the location as well. but said user shouldn't be able to do this to any other dataset. am I asking something reasonable here?

Meena, it seems cloud-init is used by Yandex. Cloud-init need to be compatible to things work?

meena: careful, code will stare back sometimes

tmic: makes things easier (for cloud providers)

it means they only have to support one way of provisioning and customising images

What they do if I understood correctly?

Btw, freebsdfoundation.org/project/freebsd-as-a-tier-i-cloud-init-platform :)

Title: FreeBSD as a Tier I cloud-init Platform – FreeBSD Foundation

yes, that's me

this, cathode.church/@meena/110737597717012884 is also me

Title: Mina: "new people have discovered and are boosting this …" - Cathode Church

So if I understood correctly, if cloud-init is ported to FBSD, whatever provider support it, FBSD will just work?

yes

Oh.

i haven't tested yandex yet, but if its just ec2, it should work out fine

I thought I just needed to uploaded the vm image

You shoul port it to minix after ;)

they don't provide FreeBSD images themselves?

cloud.yandex.com/en/marketplace/products/opennix/freebsd they do

Meena nop

Title: FreeBSD | Yandex Cloud - Marketplace

That are images from the "marketplace" inside

Which has a price...

hrmm

from $73.87 / per month

the aws marketplace has freebsd images, provided by the a freebsd committer,

Sure

This is from a private company

(and right now, you can't use them on the free tier, because they don't support UEFI yet)

i thought he fixed that recently?

At aws?

they added a new mumble mumble that lets you specify uefi-preferred

Title: src - FreeBSD source tree

("EC2: Default to "uefi-preferred" boot mode

kevans: but it's not out in a release yet

RELEASE,

it's at least in stable/13 and main :-)

if we wanted mere mortals to use those, we'd give them freebsd-update / PkgBase

is this why re@ won't touch PkgBase? because suddenly we'd have a million STABLE / CURRENT users?

Cloud-init is a component that can be found at FBSD vm image?

not the standard image you download from freebsd.org

No?

Hum

So how the whole process works?

tmic: but you can start with that, abs see how it works, and if it works well enough, you can always Customize the image locally and then re upload it

Why i want to customize? I have in mind I just need to boot the minimal image and connect by vnc and voila