on a freebsd machine you do need to bother with email, at least for local purposes

GoSox: mac is good. i am a long-time mac user as well. but recently apple has been making the os more bloated and shipped with unnecessary components

fbsd is the closest to macos in terms of lineage so it's going to be the replacement that's coming soon.

another reason is I don't have a good reception of the arm-based mac models

I like my m4 macbook

specialbomb: on arm machines if you are installing stuff the mirrors don't have support as good as on x86

compilation fails sometimes

I mean sure, but its best implementation we've had so far

you mean the arm models being the best?

in terms of compute, yes. they are really good. my macbook is as powerful as my desktop and uses at least a tenth of the power. I think thats impressive

my desktop is kinda shit tho :x

personal bias: arm should stay in the embedded world

might be that my brain feels a glitch when the arch of the hardware is different but running the same way

arm is perfectly capable. im not going to claim I know about processors deep inner workings and the major differences between proc architectures, but if the software works then it works

yeah

I have to run a bunch of very old stuff so compatibility is a big thing for me

so what if I want to run old x86 stuff on an m4? do I need to use some kind of emulator? specialbomb

macos includes then option to install rosetta, which is apples x86 emulation layer. it works pretty good

but I think they plan to abondon it some day

that's what they did with rosettav1 back in the ppc->x86 transition days, aye?

yar

ok perhaps I should go to some local apple store to find out

thx for the into btw specialbomb

they have to be some pretty old apps yeah?

yeah

still mad about them making all my steam games worthless

now they trying to get rid of tun/tap

they?

steam doesn't run on os x?

disabling 32-bit runtime support

portal 2 is gone

halo CE is gone

scottpedia couple of days ago I've setup a new gaming PC with Linux, and have to say everything (including the games that you just mentioned) are working like a charm.

actually, I was just playing Battlefield 2142.

antranigv: man I was talking about macos

of cource it runs great on Linux

scottpedia I know, I was just saying that, if you do realllly miss those game, there are other ways :D

but... I wish I could use FreeBSD for gaming as well

yeah np I can do that if time allows

was playing BF4 in a parallels VM

I mean I guess ideally we should just make sure that latest proton runs on FreeBSD natively without Linux compat layer maybe?

144p <=25fps max

I mean I was just getting 280FPS on my system

proton?

yes.

in ultra settings. if I set to mid I get... 320?

what's with bf2142 though? I heard it's not as good as previous bfs.

like no chat in multiplayer?

I think you mean BF2042. it was terrible-ish. BF2142 is a classic game from 2006 and its awesome

altho I'm getting 280FPS in Battlefront II (the new one, from 2017)

okay i see you talking about the old one

bf4 has a map from that as well. hanger something I don't remember.

I'm also getting like so many FPS in Star Wars: The Old Republic that I can't even count :P no really, the CPU is a bottleneck at that point instead of the GPU because we can push 300+FPS

your hardware must be great

ideally, someone at Valve should just build Steam on FreeBSD and release it, at least once a year

RTX 3070, nothing impressive by today's standards, but the CPU is pretty good i9-11something

that's awesome

haven't assembled any machine in many years

last time it was still in the 20~ era

omg me too! last I assembled was in 2009 (right before I moved to laptops)

then 2 months ago I stole... um... got a PC

almost broken but everything was fixable, mostly PSU issues and cabling problems

"got a PC" for free you mean?

and spent a day fixing it to make it a home NAS (upgradable to 12 disks)

and then I found this RTX3070 PC again with bad PSU and broken internals, so I fixed that too and loved it even more!

yeah for free :D thank you USAID for shutting down, HUNDREDS OF PCS ARE LEFT WITHOUT ANY OWNERS HAHAHAHA

the project manager was like "hey our project shut down wanna get the PCs? we have no use for them"

so you working there before it shut down?

ah no, I just helped them setup the network when they were starting up couple of years ago

what kind of stuff they working on to have that specs

corporate computers generally don't have that

so the GPU machine was specifically used by the designer

graphics art and stuff

good for you man

and the NAS machine (which I'm making it a NAS by adding an HBA and a good case) has a good CPU because it belonged to an accountant who had very large excel files

most people had the 11th gen i7 or i7b models but because Windows sucks they still have 32GB of RAM anyway

i guess they erased the drives before giving em away?

you'd think

but... no

wat?

passport info, private data, docs, contracts, all came with it. probably worth more than the 3070 :DDD

i'd be surprised if they don't use full-disk encryption on em

they... don't

they must have left in a hurry

alas most companies are not competent at this side of the world (eastern europe, caucasus, middle east)

I thought you in the US. so it's a local USAID then.

nono, most of the work done by USAID is outside of the US

okay thx for sharing man. gotta go so enjoy your new toy.

the last project this NGO was doing was funding artists to make comics for kids about online safety, cyber hygiene and... I think how to use computer with your kids for parents? something like that. it was useful!

danke!

welp fuck 15.0 installer, I am going to try 14.3

polarian what's wrong?

antranigv: scroll up, but tl;dr network install 15.0 is broken

polarian sorry I missed it. what's the error?

antranigv: dns failures, bsdinstall keeps deleting /etc/resolv.conf

after configuring IPv6-only networking

(static)

that's very funny :-))

I tried for hours to get bsdinstall to pull the port set

sorry the distribution sets

nothing I tried worked...

so I tried offline install, only to find its now pkgbase only to install offline

you can try pressing install, then doing ctrl-z, going to tty2, reconfigure resolv.conf, come back, and do `fg`

or... make a custom version of rm which does not rm /etc/resolv.conf

so I manually installed the distribution sets, and configured the system, but I fucked it up as I am not experienced at it, so I have went back to 14.3

and put it in path

I can always freebsd-update or my prefered method of installkernel/installworld

polarian if its a new system, why not move to pkgbase?

antranigv: because I hate pkgbase

my systems will never be pkgbasified

polarian I did too at first, but now I'm getting better at it.

its not about "getting better"

I think its design concept is wrong, I disagree with what it stands for, and I like my complete base

if pkgbase in the end becomes mandatory (cant even compile base from source without pkgbase) then I will likely leave freebsd entirely

I think that would be very complicated to achieve. first of all, its not ready, second of all, from a vendor perspective, it would not make much sense.

(talking as an ex-vendor myself)

well thats what im hoping

one of the main reason I am a BSD user is I like my complete base

maybe FreeBSD-update will get deprecated, but I think installwork/installkernel will be with us for 20 more years.

now freebsd has linuxified it, I am horrified

freebsd-rustdate was the solution imo (I hate rust, but the implementation is fast)

well... there's always OpenBSD...

OpenBSD is yet to fix the whole corrupt OS on hard shutdown

yeah, FreeBSD-rustdate is one these cases where using Rust makes sense (altho it could've been Go for all I care, or Ada, or whatever)

antranigv: any native language would have worked

rustdate from what I heard takes 40 seconds

polarian which leaves you with... illumos, if you want a proper filesystem

faster than someone on a slow internet connection can download the ports

wait... I think NetBSD has ZFS too.

yes it does

but in any case, maybe the freebsd-rustdate guy(s) might continue supporting delta updates?

or maybe if enough noise is made by 16.0 they might not deprecate freebsd-update and keep it as a "legacy" feature

that's something to talk with re@. I understand that pkgbase has nicer things, but overall I still prefer having the option of using delta updates.

like... we still support rc.local :P

well to my knowledge pkgbase was all about faster updates

a native impl of delta updates fixed the slow updates

I know pkgbase makes it easier to strip down the base OS, but if you are stripping out base components, you likely already know how to compile from src

well for me it solved multiple problems, the most important one being `pkg install FreeBSD-set-jail`

polarian also true

so I dont particularly see the point of it, those who need to strip down freebsd can already do so, those who need faster updates can use freebsd-rustdate, the only thing pkgbase does is increase the amount of data you need to download from the internet, which sure internet is abundant these days, but some peoples devices are faster than their shitty xDSL internet in the middle of the countryside

in some remote location.

I actually have a customer location like that.

we had to use... offline upgrades!

see im not the only one who thinks this is a bad idea to standardise on pkgbase then :p

antranigv: src tree isnt many lines of code, compiling from source on modern hardware takes what? 30-60 mins?

then you can update all freebsd devices on the network quickly

polarian I built the src today, without the clang toolchain it takes me 25 minutes.

it usually takes me 7 hours :p

Ivy Bridge

and that's not even my beefy machine. the beefy machine (256 cores, 2TB ram) takes less than that.

also my nickname for ivy (freebsd dev)

seems like 14.3 is installing just fine.

Lexi?

yeah

I nicknamed them ivy bridge lol

antranigv: also do bare in mind pkgbase has money thrown at it

so I am not surprised its being pushed this hard, when theres financial backing for it

I should contact her (I just learned that Lexi is a girl name) about the changes I need to do in pkgbase flua script. it also broke noninteractive for me.

the weird thing about pkgbase is, at FreeBSD devsummit, there was still people reporting system breakages

then a few months later, 15.0 drops with pkgbase as the recommended method

well there's some value in pushing broken things, it makes bugs being found earlier. but in my 10 years of using FreeBSD this might be the only major change that I even noticed.

IIRC, at .am (Armenia's TLD) we still do make buildworld/buildkernel and installkerne/installworld over NFS.

antranigv: based!

I am wondering if you could sshfs it instead

map /usr/src and /usr/obj using sshfs, and then removing nfs as an attack vector

good question, I'll ask.

this is also a good case for them to move to pkgbase, because they don't have any custom build flags anyway

talking about building

theres a new patch today, gotta start compiling that

regarding the financials: who is interested in pkgbase being complete?

I dont use blacklistd but hey ho doesnt hurt to patch it

antranigv: modirum afaik

I hope the investment pays off. I think they have a pretty large-ish fleet.

yes, and thick fibre, they invested into it afaik to increase update speed

polarian feels like a conspiracy theorist o_O

all I learned last month is that at some point in time conspiracy theorist are never wrong... just early.

some conspiracy theories are early rather than wrong

but also -social

I need to make a bot, where if a message does not have a technical term (pkg, jail, dataset, file) then it should automatically reply `"but also -social" --SarahMalik`

no, that's an alarm best sounded by a human-equivalent.

should just filter the keyword pkgbase and assume its me moaning about it :p

hello critters

specialbomb so how special are you? are you like C4 but without the safety problems? or just Nuclear?

antranigv: probably depends on the day

antranigv: just an old screenname I made when I was like 15 or something

I go by quen

lol antranigv

well, bummer, I wanted to try out the latest 6.10 DRM drivers, but it appears for now you have to run CURRENT to get the required LinuxKPI support

not sure if there are plans to MFC those changes into 15-STABLE anytime soon

was planning on moving to 15 since I wanted to test out the newest drivers but I guess there isn't as much of a push for me now

I already know the 6.6 drivers are at least as busted as the 6.1 ones on my machine, since I tested it a while back, and reportedly the 6.9 driver package that recently got released is broken as well

upgrading the wireless card on my laptop, after discovering that iwlwifi apparently needs an 802.11ax card in order to make use of 11ac, and I suppose I might need to go to 15 in order to get iwlwifi working since it seems to be pretty hit or miss

got an AX200 for under 10USD shipped which I jumped for before even trying to figure out which chipset is the least problematic with iwlwifi

and when I move to 15, I guess I will confirm that the 6.9 DRM drivers are broken on my system, then set up a 16 boot environment to test out the 6.10 drivers, if the latter works then I'll bisect the commit history and see if it's a fix I can backport to 6.6 or whatever

hey do you guys have any thoughts one way or the other on GhostBSD? for people who really do not thrive in CLI-only environments? From what I understand, its just FreeBSD with a GUI preinstalled and ready to go?

my suspicion is that FreeBSD is not the right OS for people who need a GUI preinstalled. just go with Linux, you're likely going to have a better time

I guess the benefit of GhostBSD is for people who just don't want to go through the effort of setting all of that up, even though they're capable of doing so

but if you struggle to get from a basic FreeBSD install to a setup with a DE or WM, imo that doesn't bode well for your long-term use of FreeBSD even if you have someone do those initial steps for you

GoSox: well haven't tried that sorry

but it looks kind of good. there ain't many desktop distros derived from freebsd

best way is to install a desktop environment yourself

GoSox GhostBSD also uses -STABLE, afaik, instead of -RELEASE, but I might be wrong.

in either case, the team behind GhostBSD is competent, so feel free to try it out. I personally am still angry that iXsystems shut down the TrueOS project.

what does that mean, what is stable?

GoSox FreeBSD has 3 branches, -CURRENT which is the development branch (aka HEAD), -STABLE which has a stable ABI (not to be confused with stable releases), and -RELEASE which is the release every 9-ish months.

i see

oh now that i think of it, last time i tried ghostbsd, i had a problem where it would only boot up the fisrt time after install, then if i rebooted, it wouldn’t start up properly

eh i guess ill just stick with freebsd and try to find a UI i like

and hope for the best

GoSox pkg install windowmaker

a job for tomorrow

this mac mini has two drives so i just installed macos on the hdd, that should make messing with freebsd on it’s SSD a lot easier

so last time I had freebsd going with a GUI - and i have no idea which GUI it was, it had basic file mamagement and applications, but system settings were very limited. I couldn’t find any way to see/change network settings via GUI

GoSox good luck!

any devs that would like to work on my startup?

the unix workstation business/consumer/military grade device, a lockbox computer

so far i'm working on a logo

i need to register a trademark, i got some good ideas

no response, i don't think there gonna be anything out of it ;/

I think you maybe should ask once you have done more than "started working on a logo".. like a clear detailed concept.

ibs: good thought

i will start working on it

but lunch time now

Im trying ti play around with jails.. but think whats best practice for network-setup using bridge0 and dhcp or set static-ip and using loopback?

ibs: uploading

ibs: wskyx.github.io/lockbox

it's a short, rough concept

any thoughts

nwe: what do you want to do with it? you could just share the network with the host if you want or build a vnet jail and do whatever (like setting up a vpn on the host and give the interface to the jail, so it can only comunicate via the vpn)

wsky: Sounds like just about any FreeBSD workstation, except for the propriety parts. Good luck with you endevours. :-)

well it is supposed to have few new features developed and be sold as an integrated device :s

it is supposed to come with a promise of loyality s:

ibs: also, i don't mind if you leave a comment under the article :s

nimaje: I will testing it out run som webserver and varnish, but Im not sure using dhcpd and jails or what I should use :P

reads like you don't care about separating the network from the host, so I would start without vnet and just share the network with the host

nimaje: not at the moment atleast :) now it´s more to learn more about it :)

anyone else wants to give his opinion on the concept?

hm, you would need open-source hardware for that "never spy on you" part, not sure you get that with reasonable performance suitable for web browsing

the hardware can be developed in collaboration with other corporate entities

and the whole device isn't aiming to be open source

and how do you expect people to trust the "never spy on you" promise?

because the company is also a knighthood giving an oath to the user

you make your own hardware, period.

the hardware is already there, the job is to select it, audit and assemble

i think a proper hardware audit is good enough

and much cheaper then going with custom hardware

eh this is hopeless

Re: <GoSox> are there any companies that do freebsd virtual servers?

OVH has FreeBSD too: 0x0.st/PAYq.png

Hrm. I keep seeing duplicate (or near-duplicate) packages when I search.

Like "pkg search aerc" returns gluecode.net/temp/aerc.txt

do you have the pkg repo defined twice?

rtprio: I shouldn't, but how would I confirm it? My local etc is defined like this: gluecode.net/temp/pkg-repos.txt

wavefunction: what about the /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf

aha. That must be it.

But wait, this is ports and freebsd-base, while the other is freebsd pacakges

Ah. URLs match. That's it. Thanks rtprio

between 14/15 pkgbase they renamed the ports repo iirc

<facepalm> Well, it's fixed now :-) Much appreciated.

it seems that it is no use to try Wayland on this hardware

better just to stick with X

why is that?

can anyone here point me in the direction of possibly writing a PR for an AMD CPPC (Collaborative Processor Performance Control) cpufreq driver?

hmmm I meant publishing.. because I have one running here

so buildworld took 76 mins on a ryzen 5 1600, 32GB ECC mem and 2x1TB RAID 0 SSDs

much faster than the 6.5 hours on my laptop :p

yep

I have smartd monitoring drives I specify via identifiers like /dev/da1 in smartd.conf. On reboots of the system though the drives change identifiers. smartd doesn't allow monitoring by gpt labels. How can I keep smartd working instead of breaking everytime the identifiers change?