00:17:09 on a freebsd machine you do need to bother with email, at least for local purposes 00:27:45 GoSox: mac is good. i am a long-time mac user as well. but recently apple has been making the os more bloated and shipped with unnecessary components 00:28:15 fbsd is the closest to macos in terms of lineage so it's going to be the replacement that's coming soon. 00:28:52 another reason is I don't have a good reception of the arm-based mac models 00:35:10 I like my m4 macbook 00:37:28 specialbomb: on arm machines if you are installing stuff the mirrors don't have support as good as on x86 00:37:42 compilation fails sometimes 00:39:14 I mean sure, but its best implementation we've had so far 00:39:36 you mean the arm models being the best? 00:41:06 in terms of compute, yes. they are really good. my macbook is as powerful as my desktop and uses at least a tenth of the power. I think thats impressive 00:41:19 my desktop is kinda shit tho :x 00:41:53 personal bias: arm should stay in the embedded world 00:43:04 might be that my brain feels a glitch when the arch of the hardware is different but running the same way 00:44:49 arm is perfectly capable. im not going to claim I know about processors deep inner workings and the major differences between proc architectures, but if the software works then it works 00:46:42 yeah 00:47:23 I have to run a bunch of very old stuff so compatibility is a big thing for me 00:48:50 so what if I want to run old x86 stuff on an m4? do I need to use some kind of emulator? specialbomb 00:55:07 macos includes then option to install rosetta, which is apples x86 emulation layer. it works pretty good 00:55:25 but I think they plan to abondon it some day 00:56:41 that's what they did with rosettav1 back in the ppc->x86 transition days, aye? 01:00:27 yar 01:13:51 ok perhaps I should go to some local apple store to find out 01:14:50 thx for the into btw specialbomb 01:18:14 they have to be some pretty old apps yeah? 01:19:19 yeah 01:19:36 still mad about them making all my steam games worthless 01:19:57 now they trying to get rid of tun/tap 01:20:26 they? 01:20:32 steam doesn't run on os x? 01:21:33 disabling 32-bit runtime support 01:22:00 portal 2 is gone 01:22:08 halo CE is gone 01:39:57 scottpedia couple of days ago I've setup a new gaming PC with Linux, and have to say everything (including the games that you just mentioned) are working like a charm. 01:40:12 actually, I was just playing Battlefield 2142. 01:40:23 antranigv: man I was talking about macos 01:40:36 of cource it runs great on Linux 01:40:44 scottpedia I know, I was just saying that, if you do realllly miss those game, there are other ways :D 01:40:54 but... I wish I could use FreeBSD for gaming as well 01:41:16 yeah np I can do that if time allows 01:41:30 was playing BF4 in a parallels VM 01:41:35 I mean I guess ideally we should just make sure that latest proton runs on FreeBSD natively without Linux compat layer maybe? 01:42:00 144p <=25fps max 01:42:24 I mean I was just getting 280FPS on my system 01:42:43 proton? 01:43:31 yes. 01:43:45 in ultra settings. if I set to mid I get... 320? 01:44:12 what's with bf2142 though? I heard it's not as good as previous bfs. 01:44:43 like no chat in multiplayer? 01:45:00 I think you mean BF2042. it was terrible-ish. BF2142 is a classic game from 2006 and its awesome 01:45:25 altho I'm getting 280FPS in Battlefront II (the new one, from 2017) 01:45:39 okay i see you talking about the old one 01:45:56 bf4 has a map from that as well. hanger something I don't remember. 01:47:27 I'm also getting like so many FPS in Star Wars: The Old Republic that I can't even count :P no really, the CPU is a bottleneck at that point instead of the GPU because we can push 300+FPS 01:47:46 your hardware must be great 01:47:49 ideally, someone at Valve should just build Steam on FreeBSD and release it, at least once a year 01:48:22 RTX 3070, nothing impressive by today's standards, but the CPU is pretty good i9-11something 01:48:40 that's awesome 01:48:54 haven't assembled any machine in many years 01:49:11 last time it was still in the 20~ era 01:49:34 omg me too! last I assembled was in 2009 (right before I moved to laptops) 01:49:49 then 2 months ago I stole... um... got a PC 01:50:01 almost broken but everything was fixable, mostly PSU issues and cabling problems 01:50:18 "got a PC" for free you mean? 01:50:22 and spent a day fixing it to make it a home NAS (upgradable to 12 disks) 01:51:07 and then I found this RTX3070 PC again with bad PSU and broken internals, so I fixed that too and loved it even more! 01:51:30 yeah for free :D thank you USAID for shutting down, HUNDREDS OF PCS ARE LEFT WITHOUT ANY OWNERS HAHAHAHA 01:51:56 the project manager was like "hey our project shut down wanna get the PCs? we have no use for them" 01:52:38 so you working there before it shut down? 01:52:59 ah no, I just helped them setup the network when they were starting up couple of years ago 01:53:18 what kind of stuff they working on to have that specs 01:53:31 corporate computers generally don't have that 01:53:33 so the GPU machine was specifically used by the designer 01:53:40 graphics art and stuff 01:54:19 good for you man 01:54:20 and the NAS machine (which I'm making it a NAS by adding an HBA and a good case) has a good CPU because it belonged to an accountant who had very large excel files 01:54:58 most people had the 11th gen i7 or i7b models but because Windows sucks they still have 32GB of RAM anyway 01:55:14 i guess they erased the drives before giving em away? 01:55:19 you'd think 01:55:23 but... no 01:55:31 wat? 01:56:18 passport info, private data, docs, contracts, all came with it. probably worth more than the 3070 :DDD 01:56:40 i'd be surprised if they don't use full-disk encryption on em 01:57:01 they... don't 01:57:18 they must have left in a hurry 01:57:29 alas most companies are not competent at this side of the world (eastern europe, caucasus, middle east) 01:58:12 I thought you in the US. so it's a local USAID then. 01:58:44 nono, most of the work done by USAID is outside of the US 02:00:00 okay thx for sharing man. gotta go so enjoy your new toy. 02:00:00 the last project this NGO was doing was funding artists to make comics for kids about online safety, cyber hygiene and... I think how to use computer with your kids for parents? something like that. it was useful! 02:00:04 danke! 02:41:08 welp fuck 15.0 installer, I am going to try 14.3 02:46:38 polarian what's wrong? 02:49:19 antranigv: scroll up, but tl;dr network install 15.0 is broken 02:49:41 polarian sorry I missed it. what's the error? 02:49:57 antranigv: dns failures, bsdinstall keeps deleting /etc/resolv.conf 02:50:05 after configuring IPv6-only networking 02:50:08 (static) 02:50:17 that's very funny :-)) 02:50:19 I tried for hours to get bsdinstall to pull the port set 02:50:24 sorry the distribution sets 02:50:28 nothing I tried worked... 02:50:40 so I tried offline install, only to find its now pkgbase only to install offline 02:51:01 you can try pressing install, then doing ctrl-z, going to tty2, reconfigure resolv.conf, come back, and do `fg` 02:51:23 or... make a custom version of rm which does not rm /etc/resolv.conf 02:51:25 so I manually installed the distribution sets, and configured the system, but I fucked it up as I am not experienced at it, so I have went back to 14.3 02:51:26 and put it in path 02:51:41 I can always freebsd-update or my prefered method of installkernel/installworld 02:51:48 polarian if its a new system, why not move to pkgbase? 02:51:56 antranigv: because I hate pkgbase 02:52:07 my systems will never be pkgbasified 02:52:10 polarian I did too at first, but now I'm getting better at it. 02:52:19 its not about "getting better" 02:52:32 I think its design concept is wrong, I disagree with what it stands for, and I like my complete base 02:53:24 if pkgbase in the end becomes mandatory (cant even compile base from source without pkgbase) then I will likely leave freebsd entirely 02:54:14 I think that would be very complicated to achieve. first of all, its not ready, second of all, from a vendor perspective, it would not make much sense. 02:54:33 (talking as an ex-vendor myself) 02:54:51 well thats what im hoping 02:55:02 one of the main reason I am a BSD user is I like my complete base 02:55:14 maybe FreeBSD-update will get deprecated, but I think installwork/installkernel will be with us for 20 more years. 02:55:23 now freebsd has linuxified it, I am horrified 02:55:39 freebsd-rustdate was the solution imo (I hate rust, but the implementation is fast) 02:55:40 well... there's always OpenBSD... 02:56:01 OpenBSD is yet to fix the whole corrupt OS on hard shutdown 02:56:13 yeah, FreeBSD-rustdate is one these cases where using Rust makes sense (altho it could've been Go for all I care, or Ada, or whatever) 02:56:25 antranigv: any native language would have worked 02:56:30 rustdate from what I heard takes 40 seconds 02:56:43 polarian which leaves you with... illumos, if you want a proper filesystem 02:56:46 faster than someone on a slow internet connection can download the ports 02:56:52 wait... I think NetBSD has ZFS too. 02:56:55 yes it does 02:57:27 but in any case, maybe the freebsd-rustdate guy(s) might continue supporting delta updates? 02:57:51 or maybe if enough noise is made by 16.0 they might not deprecate freebsd-update and keep it as a "legacy" feature 02:58:28 that's something to talk with re@. I understand that pkgbase has nicer things, but overall I still prefer having the option of using delta updates. 02:58:50 like... we still support rc.local :P 02:58:59 well to my knowledge pkgbase was all about faster updates 02:59:11 a native impl of delta updates fixed the slow updates 02:59:32 I know pkgbase makes it easier to strip down the base OS, but if you are stripping out base components, you likely already know how to compile from src 02:59:37 well for me it solved multiple problems, the most important one being `pkg install FreeBSD-set-jail` 02:59:47 polarian also true 03:00:59 so I dont particularly see the point of it, those who need to strip down freebsd can already do so, those who need faster updates can use freebsd-rustdate, the only thing pkgbase does is increase the amount of data you need to download from the internet, which sure internet is abundant these days, but some peoples devices are faster than their shitty xDSL internet in the middle of the countryside 03:01:01 in some remote location. 03:01:36 I actually have a customer location like that. 03:01:46 we had to use... offline upgrades! 03:03:31 see im not the only one who thinks this is a bad idea to standardise on pkgbase then :p 03:03:53 antranigv: src tree isnt many lines of code, compiling from source on modern hardware takes what? 30-60 mins? 03:04:04 then you can update all freebsd devices on the network quickly 03:05:12 polarian I built the src today, without the clang toolchain it takes me 25 minutes. 03:05:35 it usually takes me 7 hours :p 03:05:38 Ivy Bridge 03:05:49 and that's not even my beefy machine. the beefy machine (256 cores, 2TB ram) takes less than that. 03:05:51 also my nickname for ivy (freebsd dev) 03:06:49 seems like 14.3 is installing just fine. 03:06:59 Lexi? 03:07:03 yeah 03:07:07 I nicknamed them ivy bridge lol 03:07:20 antranigv: also do bare in mind pkgbase has money thrown at it 03:07:47 so I am not surprised its being pushed this hard, when theres financial backing for it 03:07:53 I should contact her (I just learned that Lexi is a girl name) about the changes I need to do in pkgbase flua script. it also broke noninteractive for me. 03:08:19 the weird thing about pkgbase is, at FreeBSD devsummit, there was still people reporting system breakages 03:08:27 then a few months later, 15.0 drops with pkgbase as the recommended method 03:09:06 well there's some value in pushing broken things, it makes bugs being found earlier. but in my 10 years of using FreeBSD this might be the only major change that I even noticed. 03:10:14 IIRC, at .am (Armenia's TLD) we still do make buildworld/buildkernel and installkerne/installworld over NFS. 03:11:24 antranigv: based! 03:11:34 I am wondering if you could sshfs it instead 03:11:46 map /usr/src and /usr/obj using sshfs, and then removing nfs as an attack vector 03:12:51 good question, I'll ask. 03:13:14 this is also a good case for them to move to pkgbase, because they don't have any custom build flags anyway 03:13:50 talking about building 03:13:58 theres a new patch today, gotta start compiling that 03:14:04 regarding the financials: who is interested in pkgbase being complete? 03:14:10 I dont use blacklistd but hey ho doesnt hurt to patch it 03:14:17 antranigv: modirum afaik 03:16:20 I hope the investment pays off. I think they have a pretty large-ish fleet. 03:16:37 yes, and thick fibre, they invested into it afaik to increase update speed 03:23:14 polarian feels like a conspiracy theorist o_O 03:23:56 all I learned last month is that at some point in time conspiracy theorist are never wrong... just early. 03:24:24 some conspiracy theories are early rather than wrong 03:24:31 but also -social 03:25:39 I need to make a bot, where if a message does not have a technical term (pkg, jail, dataset, file) then it should automatically reply `"but also -social" --SarahMalik` 03:27:41 no, that's an alarm best sounded by a human-equivalent. 03:28:48 should just filter the keyword pkgbase and assume its me moaning about it :p 03:33:55 hello critters 03:38:49 specialbomb so how special are you? are you like C4 but without the safety problems? or just Nuclear? 03:42:59 antranigv: probably depends on the day 03:58:33 antranigv: just an old screenname I made when I was like 15 or something 03:58:35 I go by quen 08:22:52 lol antranigv 08:54:45 well, bummer, I wanted to try out the latest 6.10 DRM drivers, but it appears for now you have to run CURRENT to get the required LinuxKPI support 08:55:13 not sure if there are plans to MFC those changes into 15-STABLE anytime soon 08:57:10 was planning on moving to 15 since I wanted to test out the newest drivers but I guess there isn't as much of a push for me now 08:58:13 I already know the 6.6 drivers are at least as busted as the 6.1 ones on my machine, since I tested it a while back, and reportedly the 6.9 driver package that recently got released is broken as well 09:10:53 upgrading the wireless card on my laptop, after discovering that iwlwifi apparently needs an 802.11ax card in order to make use of 11ac, and I suppose I might need to go to 15 in order to get iwlwifi working since it seems to be pretty hit or miss 09:11:52 got an AX200 for under 10USD shipped which I jumped for before even trying to figure out which chipset is the least problematic with iwlwifi 09:16:28 and when I move to 15, I guess I will confirm that the 6.9 DRM drivers are broken on my system, then set up a 16 boot environment to test out the 6.10 drivers, if the latter works then I'll bisect the commit history and see if it's a fix I can backport to 6.6 or whatever 09:23:28 hey do you guys have any thoughts one way or the other on GhostBSD? for people who really do not thrive in CLI-only environments? From what I understand, its just FreeBSD with a GUI preinstalled and ready to go? 09:27:52 my suspicion is that FreeBSD is not the right OS for people who need a GUI preinstalled. just go with Linux, you're likely going to have a better time 09:28:41 I guess the benefit of GhostBSD is for people who just don't want to go through the effort of setting all of that up, even though they're capable of doing so 09:30:40 but if you struggle to get from a basic FreeBSD install to a setup with a DE or WM, imo that doesn't bode well for your long-term use of FreeBSD even if you have someone do those initial steps for you 09:39:44 GoSox: well haven't tried that sorry 09:40:13 but it looks kind of good. there ain't many desktop distros derived from freebsd 09:41:05 best way is to install a desktop environment yourself 09:43:02 GoSox GhostBSD also uses -STABLE, afaik, instead of -RELEASE, but I might be wrong. 09:43:33 in either case, the team behind GhostBSD is competent, so feel free to try it out. I personally am still angry that iXsystems shut down the TrueOS project. 09:43:35 what does that mean, what is stable? 09:44:32 GoSox FreeBSD has 3 branches, -CURRENT which is the development branch (aka HEAD), -STABLE which has a stable ABI (not to be confused with stable releases), and -RELEASE which is the release every 9-ish months. 09:44:50 i see 09:49:27 oh now that i think of it, last time i tried ghostbsd, i had a problem where it would only boot up the fisrt time after install, then if i rebooted, it wouldn’t start up properly 09:49:45 eh i guess ill just stick with freebsd and try to find a UI i like 09:49:50 and hope for the best 09:52:22 GoSox pkg install windowmaker 09:54:59 a job for tomorrow 09:55:27 this mac mini has two drives so i just installed macos on the hdd, that should make messing with freebsd on it’s SSD a lot easier 09:56:12 so last time I had freebsd going with a GUI - and i have no idea which GUI it was, it had basic file mamagement and applications, but system settings were very limited. I couldn’t find any way to see/change network settings via GUI 10:02:33 GoSox good luck! 11:22:38 any devs that would like to work on my startup? 11:23:08 the unix workstation business/consumer/military grade device, a lockbox computer 11:23:33 so far i'm working on a logo 11:25:05 i need to register a trademark, i got some good ideas 11:25:35 no response, i don't think there gonna be anything out of it ;/ 11:38:23 I think you maybe should ask once you have done more than "started working on a logo".. like a clear detailed concept. 11:42:37 ibs: good thought 11:42:44 i will start working on it 11:42:56 but lunch time now 12:27:11 Im trying ti play around with jails.. but think whats best practice for network-setup using bridge0 and dhcp or set static-ip and using loopback? 12:31:00 ibs: uploading 12:37:27 * ibs chuckles 12:39:55 ibs: https://wskyx.github.io/lockbox/ 12:41:14 it's a short, rough concept 12:44:56 any thoughts 12:47:36 nwe: what do you want to do with it? you could just share the network with the host if you want or build a vnet jail and do whatever (like setting up a vpn on the host and give the interface to the jail, so it can only comunicate via the vpn) 12:49:53 wsky: Sounds like just about any FreeBSD workstation, except for the propriety parts. Good luck with you endevours. :-) 12:50:58 well it is supposed to have few new features developed and be sold as an integrated device :s 12:55:06 it is supposed to come with a promise of loyality s: 12:59:43 ibs: also, i don't mind if you leave a comment under the article :s 12:59:46 nimaje: I will testing it out run som webserver and varnish, but Im not sure using dhcpd and jails or what I should use :P 13:04:19 reads like you don't care about separating the network from the host, so I would start without vnet and just share the network with the host 13:05:42 nimaje: not at the moment atleast :) now it´s more to learn more about it :) 13:16:14 anyone else wants to give his opinion on the concept? 13:24:04 hm, you would need open-source hardware for that "never spy on you" part, not sure you get that with reasonable performance suitable for web browsing 13:28:23 the hardware can be developed in collaboration with other corporate entities 13:28:53 and the whole device isn't aiming to be open source 13:29:45 and how do you expect people to trust the "never spy on you" promise? 13:30:10 because the company is also a knighthood giving an oath to the user 13:30:39 you make your own hardware, period. 13:32:55 the hardware is already there, the job is to select it, audit and assemble 13:34:26 i think a proper hardware audit is good enough 13:34:39 and much cheaper then going with custom hardware 13:41:59 eh this is hopeless 14:58:09 Re: are there any companies that do freebsd virtual servers? 14:58:30 OVH has FreeBSD too: https://0x0.st/PAYq.png 16:50:53 Hrm. I keep seeing duplicate (or near-duplicate) packages when I search. 16:51:57 Like "pkg search aerc" returns https://gluecode.net/temp/aerc.txt 17:06:24 do you have the pkg repo defined twice? 18:44:43 rtprio: I shouldn't, but how would I confirm it? My local etc is defined like this: https://gluecode.net/temp/pkg-repos.txt 18:45:44 wavefunction: what about the /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf 18:47:05 https://gluecode.net/temp/pkg-freebsd.txt 18:47:13 aha. That must be it. 18:48:03 But wait, this is ports and freebsd-base, while the other is freebsd pacakges 18:49:07 Ah. URLs match. That's it. Thanks rtprio 18:49:13 between 14/15 pkgbase they renamed the ports repo iirc 18:50:47 Well, it's fixed now :-) Much appreciated. 20:14:14 it seems that it is no use to try Wayland on this hardware 20:14:26 better just to stick with X 20:34:25 why is that? 21:56:32 can anyone here point me in the direction of possibly writing a PR for an AMD CPPC (Collaborative Processor Performance Control) cpufreq driver? 21:57:02 hmmm I meant publishing.. because I have one running here 23:35:25 so buildworld took 76 mins on a ryzen 5 1600, 32GB ECC mem and 2x1TB RAID 0 SSDs 23:35:36 much faster than the 6.5 hours on my laptop :p 23:42:47 yep 23:47:24 I have smartd monitoring drives I specify via identifiers like /dev/da1 in smartd.conf. On reboots of the system though the drives change identifiers. smartd doesn't allow monitoring by gpt labels. How can I keep smartd working instead of breaking everytime the identifiers change?