-
polarian
CrtxReavr: running for the rest of the day, had no issue
-
polarian
was likely a one off
-
cpet
polarian: CrtxReavr is alive ?
-
polarian
cpet: ??/
-
JetpackJackson
cpet: I appreciate you taking the time to try and build orca slicer BTW
-
JetpackJackson
Looking at prusa, and holy cow so many patches. In retrospect if im needing orca I could just put it on my Linux PC since the printer would presumably be at my house lol
-
cpet
JetpackJackson: okie dokie
-
hernan604
cpet: upgraded 2 days ago with 15-RELEASE
-
cpet
hernan604: how does it feel man ?
-
hernan604
cpet: like something from another world
-
hernan604
from another galaxy
-
hernan604
you must upgrade too so you can understand
-
CrtxReavr
cpet, nope.
-
Demosthenex
i've been really happy with freebsd-update for a while now, i haven't tried the new pkgbase stuff yet
-
llua
"new"
-
kenrap
Demosthenex: pkgbase is still experimental (and I triggered a still existing bug with it), so ymmv
-
kenrap
I would hold off a bit longer.
-
Demosthenex
yeah. thing is i'm quite confident about updates with boot environments ;]
-
Demosthenex
it'll get there eventually
-
ariadna
q
-
ariadna
My apologies, I thought I was on a different program
-
rtprio
kenrap: i also triggered a bug with it
-
DarkUranium
Does anyone have an opinion on refurbished HDDs for a NAS? I'm gonna need to upgrade space in it.
-
kenrap
rtprio: this one?
freebsd/pkg #2517
-
DarkUranium
To be clear, I'm running a 3× mirror zpool, which does give me more redundancy / failure-safety than usual.
-
kenrap
rtprio: Not with regards to sendmail but getting that SAT Solver error message.
-
DarkUranium
(also, my plan is to buy 3 different brands, e.g. Seagate + Toshiba + HGST/Hitachi/WD)
-
DarkUranium
Last I checked, I'd save about 100 EUR per disk, or 300 EUR total.
-
DarkUranium
(for ~16-18TB / disk)
-
zi
DarkUranium: probably depends on how much you are willing to spend, what your backup strategy looks like, what your tolerace for potential disruptions is, etc.
-
DarkUranium
Yeah. It's for personal stuff mostly, so there isn't much of a backup strategy (the server *is* primarily a backup server itself, so). Also means the budget is lower than usual, heh.
-
zi
i usually aim at the enterprise disks for the hope of higher reliability, but there's def a cost hit for that
-
DarkUranium
I think my current ones are low-RPM (so not enterprise in that sense), but high-reliability ones. They're sold as enterprise, but I think they're aimed specifically at backup servers and such, not so much "live" data (which nowadays is mostly the domain of SSDs anyhow)
-
DarkUranium
Buuuut it's been ... probably almost a decade since I bought them, so I don't recall the details anymore.
-
Demosthenex
DarkUranium: as long as you are using zraid or mirroring, sure. at home, it's easy to rebuild and replace one
-
DarkUranium
Yeah, I even got a (Supermicro) motherboard with hot-plug support, and one of those rack cases with hot-swappable disk mounts.
-
DarkUranium
So I can literally just pull it, replace the disk in the unit, and put it back.
-
DarkUranium
(and tell zfs to add it)
-
Demosthenex
yep. i would suggest putting your OS on a simple pair, and data on a zraid
-
DarkUranium
Demosthenex: but yeah, I'm using a 3× zfs mirror.
-
DarkUranium
My OS is not on a pair ATM, but then again, there's nothing of relevance *in* it.
-
DarkUranium
(it's on its own 128GB SSD)
-
Demosthenex
yeah, i'd get a pair of cheap used 128G ssds and do mirrored root
-
DarkUranium
Maybe, though 128GB SSDs are so cheap nowadays that "used" is a bit moot ^^
-
Demosthenex
with ZFS you can have some extra confidence if a disk fails, you can replace it.
-
Demosthenex
yeah, they are like 20 eur :P
-
Demosthenex
no point in buying new
-
DarkUranium
You mean *not* buying new?
-
DarkUranium
But yes, I've always used zfs for this, it's why I went with FreeNAS (at the time, then TrueNAS, then TrueNAS Core, and now abandoned ... I'll need to fix that at some point, but it's not a huge priority for me, because "if it works, don't fix it")
-
Demosthenex
i wouldn't buy any storage for homelab new
-
DarkUranium
Fair.
-
DarkUranium
(to be clear, I've plenty of experience managing FreeBSD servers, but a web UI is handy, mostly for the overview of system health and such)
-
cpet
CrtxReavr: ok
-
Demosthenex
DarkUranium: install netcd from pkg
-
DarkUranium
What *would* you recommend for a NAS nowadays, anyway? OS / software-wise? Ideally BSD-based (not necessarily FreeBSD, though I'd prefer that because it has the best ZFS support among the BSDs)
-
Demosthenex
freebsd 14 latest patch, 2 OS used/refurb SSDs (geom mirror swap, zfs root), and 4 x used HDD for zraid for data
-
Demosthenex
monitoring web frontend, netcd.
-
DarkUranium
4× for 4-way mirror, or do you mean parity-style (Z1 / RAID5-style)?
-
cpet
true nas even if it's linux now
-
DarkUranium
(well, Z2 I guess?)
-
cpet
if its 4 x chances are you made a z2
-
cpet
you can check it by doing zppol status
-
DarkUranium
I'm asking what Demosthenex is proposing.
-
DarkUranium
*I* am extra paranoid, so I went with a 3-way mirror ^^
-
cpet
raidz2-0 ONLINE
-
cpet
3 way mnirror ?
-
DarkUranium
Demosthenex: Hm, I can't find netcd in pkg/ports. The only netcd I found is IBM's netcd daemon (network caching daemon)
-
DarkUranium
cpet: yes.
-
cpet
normally mirrors are 2 drives
-
DarkUranium
3 disks with same data. Means it tolerates 2 drives failing with no dataloss.
-
Demosthenex
DarkUranium: i think zraid (3+1) is fine for a homelab. y
-
Demosthenex
you'll setup backups right?
-
DarkUranium
(I was worried about the somewhat-common issue of the remaining disk failing during intense reads because of resilvering)
-
Demosthenex
if you have no other backups, then mirror 2+2
-
Demosthenex
zfs doesn't do that
-
DarkUranium
Demosthenex: well, no, since it's a backup server itself, really.
-
Demosthenex
zfs only resilvers the blocks in active files
-
DarkUranium
Plus there's kind of too much data at this point to back it up -_-
-
Demosthenex
not every empty byte of disk space
-
cpet
you still need backups of those backups
-
Demosthenex
so if you have 50% usage, you may read 50% off a disk
-
DarkUranium
Sure, but the storage is mostly full.
-
Demosthenex
ah well that's different.
-
DarkUranium
cpet: technically, these *are* the backups of some other backups, so.
-
Demosthenex
i use zraid and i have zfs snapshots via zrepl, but i take a backup offsite of critical items with borg
-
DarkUranium
Anyway, to be honest, it's mostly budgetary. The lack of even more backups.
-
cpet
you need more backups
-
DarkUranium
Personal stuff server, after all.
-
Demosthenex
you described a cheap homelab
-
DarkUranium
Yeah.
-
DarkUranium
Demosthenex: anyway, uh, I cannot find this netcd =\
-
Demosthenex
sorry, its netdata
-
Demosthenex
its a python thing, with it's own webserver and graph collection. nearly zero config
-
DarkUranium
There are plenty of monitoring frontends I'm aware of (e.g. Prometheus), but.
-
Demosthenex
just install and open a browser to the port
-
Demosthenex
i like nagios and munin, but this is live and mostly all in one
-
DarkUranium
I use Prometheus to some extent for my servers, but since the home NAS is partially airgapped (behind NAT, firewalled, etc), I'd rather keep it isolated.
-
Demosthenex
netdata is pretty small, one port, runs on the box not a chain of agents
-
DarkUranium
Nice. I'll check it out, thanks.
-
Tykling
you can run prometheus locally on the NAS and have it remotewrite to your real prom, so you don't have to open any ports frm outside
-
Demosthenex
but anyway. 2x used ssds for OS (geli swap, zfs for OS), and 4 x used HDD for data (3+1 zraid or 2+2 mirror)
-
Demosthenex
freebsd 14 latest patchlevel ought to be fine
-
cpet
all the cool people run 15.0
-
DarkUranium
Tykling: I know, yeah.
-
Demosthenex
cpet: i'm boring, not cool.
-
Demosthenex
low maint, this isn't gentoo
-
DarkUranium
FWIW, I *have* considered getting an extra backup box that's even more gapped from this one. Something that (ideally) wouldn't even have internet access, just the ability to connect to this NAS to sync changes (via Syncoid, rdiff-backup, or whatever). Doesn't even need disk redundancy (the NAS has that).
-
Demosthenex
so, if i may.
-
DarkUranium
And I'd only backup the most important data; I've a ton that's less important (can technically be redownloaded, assuming upstream doesn't disappear).
-
DarkUranium
(which means less disk space needed)
-
Demosthenex
consider having one larger disk (no raid), and use it locally for borgbackup
-
Demosthenex
borg does compression and deduplication
-
cpet
i have a 800GB pool I will never use it but I had drives laying around so I used them
-
DarkUranium
The reason I was thinking of a separate system is my concern with power surges.
-
DarkUranium
A lightning strike could in theory fry all the disks.
-
Demosthenex
that's more DR, not local recovery.
-
DarkUranium
(my neighbour had a wall socket fly out of their wall, across the room ... the same lightning bolt gave me tinnitus for 1.5 days, as it struck ~25m from me while I was staring out the window)
-
Demosthenex
borgbase has a 4TB plan for like 200€/yr
-
DarkUranium
Aaah.
-
cpet
thats why UPS's are for
-
DarkUranium
Yeah, I just don't trust them 100%, is all.
-
DarkUranium
Maybe I'm too paranoid.
-
DarkUranium
Demosthenex: Actually, I did buy a server for that, but never got storage.
-
Demosthenex
just saying, i'd be more worried about fire from lightning
-
DarkUranium
(didn't get around to it yet)
-
Demosthenex
offsite backups.
-
cpet
hrm youre one of those heh
-
CrtxReavr
If you're looking for secure, remote back-up, that's also low cost:
tarsnap.com
-
DarkUranium
lol
-
Demosthenex
tarsnap is good too
-
Demosthenex
borgbase has been good to me
-
cpet
the fact of having my data being responsible of a 3rd party
-
Demosthenex
make a deal with a friend to exchange space :P
-
cpet
doesnt appeal to me
-
CrtxReavr
That's actually a side biz of Colin Percival, FreeBSD's Security Engineer Emeritus
-
cpet
CrtxReavr: you for a role
-
cpet
er you forgot a role
-
DarkUranium
Demosthenex: that too. Though I don't know of any friends with such amounts of space :(
-
Demosthenex
cpet: borg is fully encrypted. you don't have to trust the remote storage
-
DarkUranium
FWIW, I've been thinking of buyvm.net for my backups.
-
Demosthenex
make friends on irc.
-
cpet
what are friends ?
-
DarkUranium
I already got a slice-512 in preparation for it.
-
Demosthenex
cpet: exactly.
-
Demosthenex
DarkUranium: anyway point is, nothing wrong with most refurb HW for home projects. ZFS is better than raid with it's built in checksums, so even if you replace a disk you should be ok
-
DarkUranium
Demosthenex: to be clear, do you mean borgbackup.org the software, or borgbase.com the provider?
-
cpet
i used to buy refurbished drives
-
cpet
cheaper and had the same waranty as retail drives
-
DarkUranium
I mean, 100% ZFS. Also, never HW raid (because if the controller fails ...)
-
Demosthenex
borg is the software. borgmatic is a cron wrapper. borgbase is a offsite borg provider.
-
DarkUranium
Demosthenex: I know, my question is, which one are you recommending here.
-
DarkUranium
Not sure if you just mean the SW, or the provider.
-
Demosthenex
all 3
-
cpet
Demosthenex: is full of borg
-
cpet
heh
-
DarkUranium
Fair.
-
scottpedia
DarkUranium: HW raid is a scam
-
cpet
HW is perfectly fine
-
scottpedia
inflexibility, often low performance...
-
Demosthenex
scottpedia: HW raid is **great**, except in the low-mid market.
-
cpet
expensive but
-
Demosthenex
i luv petabyte of ferrari speed flash fiber channel arrays.
-
scottpedia
i don't trust the whatever controller doing that job
-
DarkUranium
TBH, in my case, it's mostly a combination of HW controller failure concerns, as well as more flexibility by using a zraid (I can then make the NAS work with literally any machine)
-
Demosthenex
but that's not "make ddue from home"
-
DarkUranium
(just move the disks over)
-
Demosthenex
yes, on the low end do not use HW raid.
-
Demosthenex
don't trust iscsi raid appliances
-
Demosthenex
fiber channel, real data center quality raid appliances, are amazing.
-
cpet
scottpedia: so you trust software instead of a piece of HW specifically designed to do it ?
-
DarkUranium
Demosthenex: FWIW, I do get a cheaper price at buyvm with the ability to run whatever (it's literally just a server + storage slabs) ... no redundancy for the attached block storage though, I *think*.
-
cpet
i had a 3ware card for about 8 years and it never failed once
-
scottpedia
cpet: yes. cause if it fails it means down time for replacements or fixes.
-
DarkUranium
But since it's a backup of a backup, I think "no redundancy" should be fine.
-
LxGHTNxNG
a lot of people do, and have mostly good reasons to
-
cpet
scottpedia: if you have one machine doing whatever it is your doing you failed already
-
DarkUranium
Well. Not everything needs a redundant server.
-
scottpedia
if not for saving money on the scale of things, i'd never choose HW raid.
-
cpet
yeap lets move it all to the cloud
-
Demosthenex
DarkUranium: yeah, borgbase was for borg. they have EU datacenters, so i was satisfied
-
DarkUranium
Yeah, very fair.
-
DarkUranium
I do like the idea of *not* using borgbase just because I like the flexibility of being able to switch target servers.
-
DarkUranium
(or even SW)
-
Demosthenex
my data compresses and dedups well. so i have 4TB and get all my NAS homedirs. things i can download again are exbluded.
-
DarkUranium
Mine doesn't, I think I did a test once.
-
Demosthenex
with borg, anything you can access over ssh works.
-
DarkUranium
It was something like 1.04 ratio or thereabouts.
-
Demosthenex
yep, some data does that.
-
DarkUranium
(a lot of it is already compressed, hence)
-
DarkUranium
(stuff like video archives or my photos --- many of which aren't compressed [I shoot RAW/DNG], but are still not easily losslessly compressed by non-dedicated algos, and deduplication is out of the question for those)
-
DarkUranium
s/DNG/NEF/ (brain fart)
-
DarkUranium
I just did a quick test on some random photos, I got compression ratios between 1.03 and 1.06 with bzip2 (I just had bzip2 on hand, gzip or lz4 is likely to be worse --- though maybe zstd would do a bit better)
-
mason
zstd seems like magic
-
DarkUranium
And video is already compressed anyway (typically h264 or h265)
-
Demosthenex
yeah, all of those compress poorly
-
Demosthenex
dedup can still help when you have multiple copies
-
DarkUranium
The "less important stuff" is stuff like my backup of all the GoG games I bought (juuuuust in case GoG goes belly-up) ... which is less important because I can redownload them at any time if the NAS fails.
-
DarkUranium
But those are also compressed in one manner or another.
-
DarkUranium
As in, already-compressed; the installer & their files.
-
cpet
if you can redownload it it's not important (TM)
-
DarkUranium
Yeah, it's just convenient to have it on the same disks, TBH.
-
DarkUranium
And no chance of error in where I put the stuff.
-
Demosthenex
yep. i would suggest when you make your zraid, you create a few first level data types
-
Demosthenex
zraid/STATIC and zraid/DATA making it easy to filter what to backup
-
DarkUranium
<Demosthenex> dedup can still help when you have multiple copies
-
DarkUranium
I don't, I did a comprehensive check a while back ^^
-
DarkUranium
(ran a script that did sha256 of everything)
-
Demosthenex
lucky you ;]
-
DarkUranium
Granted, it wasn't per-block, but photos et al are unlikely to have same blocks anyway.
-
cpet
anything that can be replaced is not important in my book even my dd214 can be either downloaded form the VA or fetched from other parties
-
cpet
photos is a hit and miss
-
DarkUranium
My *really* important stuff, I have on Seafile, and it's auto-synced with every single computer (albeit not server, except its host) that I have.
-
DarkUranium
And I keep at least, uh. 3-5 computers constantly online. Not counting ones that come online at least once a week or so, and sync then.
-
DarkUranium
Well, "constantly" being at least daily.
-
cpet
i trust a USB thumb drive more than most 3rd party backup services encrypted or not
-
DarkUranium
(if I'm not awake, I won't be creating new files anyhow)
-
DarkUranium
(unless I'm sleep-walk-programming?)
-
Demosthenex
usb thumb drives have died on me so many times.
-
DarkUranium
Demosthenex: I actually have that already. I didn't mention it because it was irrelevant, but I also have some much-less-important stuff on --- currently --- a non-reduncant storage.
-
cpet
as much as I like my pictures of my dogs they arent life threatning if I lose them
-
DarkUranium
TL;DR my old mirror was only 2× (2×2), and I migrated it to this 3×.
-
DarkUranium
After I was happy that 3× was fine (after about 6 months), I reused the old HDDs for the extra less-important storage.
-
DarkUranium
One of those 4 failed since, so that pool is degraded.
-
DarkUranium
Buuuut the data really isn't that important (TBH, I might have moved the GoG stuff to it, I know I was planning to)
-
DarkUranium
cpet: well, definitely true.
-
cpet
no data is really just inconvient if it happens
-
DarkUranium
Now I'm curious how much storage all my photos take, but I can't access my NAS right now, ironically.
-
DarkUranium
(the server is at my parents' place, and their ISP fucked up and *then* my dad fucked up with some router config, so now I'm temporarily locked out of it until I get home and sort it out xD)
-
cpet
kinda curous wqhen bold text was a thing
-
DarkUranium
I mean, it's still a thing, I'm just kinda lazy to use it.
-
DarkUranium
Bold is toggled via \x02 in IRC. Similar to how \x01 is used for CTCP ACTION and such.
-
cpet
*slappy*
-
cpet
yay
-
cpet
*slappy jippy jappy*
-
DarkUranium
For my client, it's ctrl+B.
-
DarkUranium
With your thingie, I just see asterisks.
-
DarkUranium
Demosthenex: just tried netdata, is there a way to get the full metrics without the use of their cloud?
-
cpet
someone used to use .oO for everything
-
cpet
that was annoying as well
-
Demosthenex
DarkUranium: i ignore all the cloud crap. just use the local stuff
-
Demosthenex
it's a decent all in one zero config local webui for monitoring.
-
Demosthenex
but i use nagios and munin
-
DarkUranium
Yeah, thing is, I get stuff like "Sign in to Netdata to use this function"
-
Demosthenex
then don't use that function
-
Demosthenex
you should have graphs for all major system items over time, and javascript navigation of them
-
DarkUranium
Yeah, Top and Logs aren't accessible. Just irks me, I guess.
-
Demosthenex
yeah, webuis irk me too.
-
cpet
i kind of like tui's and would be cool if they did something like that
-
DarkUranium
.... to be honest, that's not a bad idea. I might do that.
-
cpet
i mean all you really need to know if if your system is OK, your FS arent full and temps are in normal levels
-
Demosthenex
cpet: i would LOVE to see more tools usable over SSH. where did all the TUI CRUD forms builders for SQL go :P
-
cpet
you dont or i dont need a full blown webui for that
-
Demosthenex
yeah, thus nagios. it alerts me over xmpp
-
Demosthenex
i don't even open the ui
-
cpet
but then again I really dont need to monitor my system
-
cpet
i think the monitoring thing if its not enterprise its an attitude
-
cpet
either you like those conky stats or you dont
-
Demosthenex
i luv my little conky bar on my laptop!'
-
cpet
back when I used to run FreeBSD on a cyrix CPU with limited space, ram, and CPU i ran nagios
-
cpet
but now that most systems are i7 or above
-
cpet
i dont bother any more
-
cpet
some people tend to go ape when there CPU goes above 40C
-
cpet
with my liquid cooling setup I can buildworld with -j30 and it doesnt even move
-
Demosthenex
100% cpu usage is just good efficiency ;]
-
cpet
i dont need a graph showing it
-
cpet
oh look im running youtube my CPU is actually doing something
-
Demosthenex
so many idle cpus in the world
-
cpet
but like I said some people like them others dont
-
cpet
same with LEDs
-
cpet
i hate LEDs
-
Demosthenex
electape and wire cutters.
-
cpet
i hate them so much I take the fans apart remove the LEDs and put them back together
-
cpet
cause now you cant even fine normal fans
-
cpet
cause normally when you need a fan you need it now not in 1-3 business days
-
cpet
however ive seen that sometimes removing the LEDs causing issues with the PWM function of the fan
-
scoobybejesus_tl
From the release notes: "The FreeBSD and FreeBSD-kmods repositories defined in /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf have been renamed to FreeBSD-ports and FreeBSD-ports-kmods respectively. Users who override these in /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos will need to adjust their configuration to match the new names." Gonna have to remember that, though not sure I will jump
-
scoobybejesus_tl
on 15.0-R right away
-
cpet
scoobybejesus_tl: makes sense to change the names as FreeBSD for ports didint make sense when pkgbase is the new norm
-
cpet
i dont think thats a reason to bypass a update
-
lts-
Yeah I'm going to wait until .1
-
cpet
FreeBSD drink.unix.beer 15.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 15.0-RELEASE releng/15.0-7aedc8de6446 GENERIC amd64
-
cpet
works fine here
-
leah2
is someone familiar with x86 intel pmc? i'd like to support another cpu
-
isley
I updated to 15.0-R over the weekend on most of my stuff too.
-
cpet
leah2: more testing ?
-
leah2
well the counter i want seems to work, but i'm not sure if i broke something else :)
-
cpet
ok let me use some telekinesis and guess the optiosn you used, program, port options kernel version OS installed
-
cpet
hardware information
-
cpet
IP address and shell acount info
-
cpet
and my donation for a free coffee
-
leah2
i can provide many details, if you're interested
-
leah2
that's the patch i wrote
l2.re/JU7dj2 to run on intel N100
-
cpet
so you wrote that patch ?
-
cpet
i do not have a alderlake I have a Raptopr Lake
-
cpet
however if it compiles and works
-
cpet
i dont see why It wouldnt wokr for someone else which that rev
-
leah2
well you need a N100 or N150 to test it
-
leah2
i adjusted the libpmc now with new json files, i think it fits better now
-
DarkUranium
So, I've noticed some behaviour with daemon(8) that I'm not sure is intentional.
-
DarkUranium
Namely, if one uses -u / --user, it'll try to open the program *as* that user. So if I run daemon as root, root has access to /usr/local/sbin/foo but other users don't (as it typical), then `daemon -u foo_user /usr/local/sbin/foo` will fail.
-
scoobybejesus_tl
I have come across that and can't remember what i did to deal with it, or even which program I had the issue with
-
DarkUranium
I'm guessing it (`daemon(8)`) basically does `setuid() -> exec()`, and that open() fails.
-
DarkUranium
(the implied/specified-by-standard one in `exec()` family)
-
DarkUranium
I can't help but wonder if a `fd = open(...); setuid(); fexecve(fd, ...)` would work. But it does check for exec permission, so I'm not sure.
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DarkUranium
scoobybejesus_tl: FWIW, I made a small program that does exactly that (yes, it seems to work)
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DarkUranium
`int fd = open("/path/to/program", O_EXEC | O_CLEXEC); setgid(...); setuid(...); fexecve(fd, ...);`
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cpet
why pput code in ``
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DarkUranium
cpet: clarity
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nimaje
I normally put extra spaces around code, to seperate it from the surrounding text on irc
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o0x1eef
It's common in markdown and modern chats like discord but for IRC it's usually not used
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nimaje
I'm pretty sure markdown has it from irc and email, as when inline with other text, it is sometimes not clear where the surrounding text and the code starts/stops
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BarnabasDK
I am trying to switch from ezjails to jails on a bunch of services . one of them is a squeezebox server for what is now lyrion server. with spotty as as the connecting daemon to spotify. Seems the shift from ezjails to vanilla jails have changed somewhat what I need to do?
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BarnabasDK
the spotty daemon process needs avahi/bonjour facilities in order to work properly
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BarnabasDK
this seems to have been a part of my old jails config, not a part of my new
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BarnabasDK
have anyone got exp in this broadcast I/O from whithin a jail?
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BarnabasDK
what am I not seeing?
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BarnabasDK
it is mainly the authentication process that fails due to the difference between what ezjails did and vanilla jails
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BarnabasDK
maybe the correct question is - how to make avahi / bonjour work in a vanilla jail
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o0x1eef
Are you sure you want to move to vanilla jails, they are kind of a burden to maintain, especially if a thick jail. I recently migrated from vanilla jails to bastille. Much better experience.
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BarnabasDK
they are thin jails, but in effect this should be be a vnnet issue? .. maybe
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o0x1eef
Yes, sounds like it
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BarnabasDK
yes
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BarnabasDK
I think ez jail configured more than vanilla jails does towards this
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BarnabasDK
I am unsure really how far to go in the network setup to replicate ezjails with vanilla jails
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BarnabasDK
currently the diagnosis is just a timeout in the dependent services
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o0x1eef
All my jails have their own net stack, let me check
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BarnabasDK
the rest of the stack works, eg gui and etc. but the avahi / other broadcast stuff - not so much
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BarnabasDK
they used to in ezjail
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BarnabasDK
I can provide configs
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o0x1eef
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o0x1eef
bastille manages most of that for me
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BarnabasDK
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BarnabasDK
more info
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BarnabasDK
Basically it works - except for spotty login / since it uses avahi / bonjour - so other music sources are ok
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o0x1eef
You are missing the vnet configuration
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skered
I keep seeing 15.0-RELEASE in rss feeds yet is still upcoming. Is 15 is the end of post rc but pre release state? Just waiting for mirror updates?
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o0x1eef
At least you want 'vnet;' but really there's more config to port, including with ifconfig
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BarnabasDK
yes I realise that now
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BarnabasDK
I do not know how
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o0x1eef
My gist would be a good start, probably. Do you have a bridge?
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BarnabasDK
no bridge config - is that implicit in using the old ezjail system?
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BarnabasDK
maybe I did not realize that happened
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o0x1eef
I'm not sure how ezjail does it, but in my setup, I have bridge0 and each jail has its own interfaces (eg e0a, e0b, etc) that are added to the bridge for internet access.
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BarnabasDK
I just want local net access behind the fw
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BarnabasDK
like from the browser I seek to login with to the endpoint the oauth2 process forwards me to
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BarnabasDK
does that make sense?
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o0x1eef
Yeah. This is on your LAN, right? So maybe you want dhcpd to assign an IP for you?
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BarnabasDK
this is fixed IP
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o0x1eef
Okay, that's easier.
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BarnabasDK
never assign ips to servers via dhcp
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BarnabasDK
not even ipv6
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BarnabasDK
I think what happened with ezjails was a true vnet jail assignment. with broadcast and all
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o0x1eef
My LAN assigns IPs based on the ether/mac address. Your setup sounds simpler.
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BarnabasDK
and now with vanilla jails I need to somehow specify it
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BarnabasDK
yes mac addr is not considered
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BarnabasDK
I have a hw police guard on my net looking for intruders
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BarnabasDK
aka unknown macs
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BarnabasDK
they will never get an ip
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BarnabasDK
and the alert will sound
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o0x1eef
To start, you should add vnet; to your jail's config, and then start the jail, see what interfaces are available, iterate until you can assign an IP to the interface and reach other computers
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BarnabasDK
ok
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BarnabasDK
I have, unfortunately, grown accustomed to ezjails
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BarnabasDK
but given the state - I am trying to move on
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o0x1eef
I like bastille for this. Very good abstraction.
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BarnabasDK
I think I have to go bare bones - or I will just replace one problem with another?
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BarnabasDK
aka understand the core tools in FreeBSD
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o0x1eef
I started with vanilla jails, and while it was good to learn things the hard way, it's not really sustainable unless you write your own scripts to automate the process, and bastille does a better job of that than me
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voy4g3r2
BarnabasDK: here is an example of vnet jails
pastebin.com/sLwNBzMW
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BarnabasDK
ok
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BarnabasDK
voy4g3r2, reading
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voy4g3r2
follows the handbook and added some specific things, in particular the $id
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voy4g3r2
brings up epairs and adds to my bridge..
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BarnabasDK
this is not (yet) on zfs though
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BarnabasDK
it might be very quickly
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voy4g3r2
that is possible, you were asking about ip address and not using ezjails.. to have vnet
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voy4g3r2
you may need to tweak to your environment but the stuff at the bottom is the key
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BarnabasDK
yes this is not really about zfs
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BarnabasDK
just why I see a difference between what I did with ezjails and now vanilla jails
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voy4g3r2
i would focus on line 28 - 41
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BarnabasDK
voy4g3r2, check
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BarnabasDK
and the service does work, and start, it is the authentication part that fails
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BarnabasDK
(eg, I ran the daemons with the corect switches ouside of the jail to find out)
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BarnabasDK
so ezjail implicitly configured a bridge?
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o0x1eef
If you still have the config try start the jail and then run 'ifconfig'
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BarnabasDK
I am just trying to understand the differences
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BarnabasDK
yes but before that - I would like to learn what I am changing
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BarnabasDK
so I can verify
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o0x1eef
I mean, if you still have the ezjail config, you can start the jail the old way and then run ifconfig, you might see bridge0 and a couple of epair interfaces
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BarnabasDK
hmm
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BarnabasDK
I do not recall ever seing that on the jail, but also cannot say I ever looked for it
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o0x1eef
It's also visible on the host
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BarnabasDK
yes it should be
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BarnabasDK
I do not recall ever having setup a full bridge in order to run this in ezjails
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o0x1eef
It might be done behind the scenes. I have no experience with ezjail though.
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BarnabasDK
I have another jail host on my network running a mdns server, seems to work just fine - I do not understand why - also migrated from ezjails to just jails
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BarnabasDK
if this is aproblem
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BarnabasDK
a normal dns/mdns host
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BarnabasDK
this is a mystery to me
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BarnabasDK
it answers broadcast on 5353 like it is supposed to
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BarnabasDK
-
» BarnabasDK bitch - why does this have to be on mdns, why not just a http return url ..
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BarnabasDK
oauth would be fine
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BarnabasDK
I will try your suggestions and see
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o0x1eef
The configuration you shared still does not isolate the network stack, and regardless of the other details, that's an isolation probably worth having
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BarnabasDK
I think it may be necessary
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BarnabasDK
maybe an isolated stack is necessary for multicast?
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BarnabasDK
I am not that network savy
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o0x1eef
It is neccessary unless you want the host and jail to share the same IP
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BarnabasDK
which they do not - I think you just answered my q
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BarnabasDK
this may be the difference to ezjails where jails always have a unique IP?
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BarnabasDK
I don't know - it is sort of legacy anyways
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BarnabasDK
and I really do not want to use any more "wrappers"
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o0x1eef
It's controlled by: export jail_squeezebox_barnabas_dk_vnet_enable="YES"
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BarnabasDK
ah so it is a rc.conf thing?
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BarnabasDK
let me look
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o0x1eef
Nope it's a jail.conf(8) thing but ezjail exposes it like that
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o0x1eef
jail.conf(5) *
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BarnabasDK
ezjail only exists now in the form of its config files
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BarnabasDK
otherwise deinstalled
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BarnabasDK
for this purpose
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mason
BarnabasDK: If it's any use, I documented some of what I do for jails. It might be a bit out of date:
wiki.freebsd.org/MasonLoringBliss/JailsEpair
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BarnabasDK
will read
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mason
I'm moving towards traditional jails hanging off of a localhost lately.
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BarnabasDK
also I am trying to move to a lagg interface / vnet
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BarnabasDK
but that is more externally
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mason
I saw a nifty article showcasing Caddy fronting for various services that seemed neat.
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mason
BarnabasDK: vnet is wicked cool and I use it in-house so I can treat my jails the same way I do VMs - they're all using epairs on a bridge, and they pull from the generally-available dhcpd.
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mason
So the localhost stuff will be for servers out in the world.
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BarnabasDK
yeah it is the actual parallel to docker
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mason
Yep!
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BarnabasDK
I work with sw dev on docker / kubernetes
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rtprio
mason: there are things i like about caddy, yet some things i do not
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BarnabasDK
so I am not so confused about what I need, more how to achieve it
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BarnabasDK
(what she said ..)
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mason
rtprio: What are the downsides? I haven't deployed it yet. Just seems interesting. NAT in FreeBSD isn't as straightforward as NAT on Linux, and this would let me avoid it, but I'm still wide open to ideas.
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voy4g3r2
BarnabasDK: what i shared with you earlier.. is based off of mason's article
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BarnabasDK
but I am seeing that I have to understand bridge setups internally in order to switch
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BarnabasDK
yep, I will take a read
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BarnabasDK
thanks
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» voy4g3r2 is a fan of just try it and see what happens.. :)
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mason
^
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BarnabasDK
well this is just a home media setup thing, there is nothing important at stake here
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voy4g3r2
exactly
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BarnabasDK
the network config being just as complicated
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voy4g3r2
i should definitely put on my list.. to update the static ip routing table of my mikrotik to the list
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mason
Hey, third quarter status report is out.
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voy4g3r2
i have forgotten that a few times.. trying to ssh into the vnet jail and it goes unresolved host
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voy4g3r2
ohh time to go read.. because watching neo4j database load is like watching paint dry
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voy4g3r2
good luck BarnabasDK
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mason
Oh, weird, the report came out yesterday. Wonder where it hung up.
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mason
Oh, it didn't hang up. It just got buried in other stuff in my in-box. Never mind.
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mason
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BarnabasDK
except for the fact I would like to know how broadcasts work into jails in freebsd
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BarnabasDK
with avahi/mdns
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BarnabasDK
but you game me a lot of hints to try
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Macer
my smr resilver has 1 day and 16 hours to go :) i guess i should be thankful it hasn't removed it yet.
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scoobybejesus_tl
I wish my irc client would render text inside backticks as a slightly differently formatted mono font. would be rather helpful
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scoobybejesus_tl
adding support to bastille, specifically because I was in the same boat, and i didn't want to figure out what clever python was doing to manage the jail. w/ bastille, it's all shell scripts, meaning it is already doing what you'd be doing anyway, aside from certain opinionated things that usually don't matter and will already fit your usecase
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scoobybejesus_tl
also, I am someone who puts caddy in a jail (a thin loopback jail), and i have it proxy to other jails. pf redirects all incoming-to-host http/s traffic to the caddy jail (though the rdr rule has `to !<this_host>` which is a table from a macro of my host IPs and VNET jail IPs so their traffic doesn't get redirected too)