MelMalik: uh, it might be possible to put a bootloader on a different disk, but just make a backup and reinstall

the problem is no longer live; i put the bootloader on the same disk as the pool and all became well

great

veg: just unmount the "top" filesystem in the hierarchy, zfs will do the rest

my general suggestion is to do all fs mounting outside the jail, in exec.created and exec.release steps in jail.conf

Demosthenex: you could consider a zfs dataset and force `sync: disabled` `atime:off` which will allow zfs to bundle even async writes into transaction groups, *by lying about fsync to the applications*

its a signficant change from data loss aspect if you lose power / crash the server

Demosthenex an alternative is to use a ZIL which passes the small sync writes directly to a dedicated SSD, which can then be bundled up later into async writes to the main zpool

servethehome.com/what-is-the-zfs-zil-slog-and-what-makes-a-good-one for example seems a reasonable explanation

Demosthenex: so a dedicated ZIL is the "correct" option, and sync:disabled is the cheap/risky option

dch: sync:disabled sounds similar to what i'm doing today

Demosthenex: the only other thing I can think of, is to have a longer txn time, but IIRC that would impact the whole server

s/txn/txg/

yeah, i'd prefer it only impact the one filesystem

sounds like sync disabled just ignores the app calling sync, turning sync io into async io. not sure that'd cache more to ram

if zfs is trying to dump to disk frequently. i'm only trying to do it once every 15 min

and i need to coordinate it so i get a good snapshot. i can lose 15 min, but i need a consistent snapshot

Demosthenex: you mentioned that your workload trashes SSDs, this is typically related to write amplification (wrong logical sector size as seen by FS, vs physical size on device)

and/or many many small allocations, which is what sync (or a ZIL) helps more with

but if you need more stuff cached, then either add RAM, or add a nvme read cache device (L2ARC)

zfs will write to disk at least every 5s by default, this is the transaction group (txg)

but delaying that out to 15 *minutes* seems extremely counterproductive

plaese let me report that I have now fully working laptop without INET (legacy IP) support

the wireless connection is working fine

this laptop is immune to all legacy IP attacks

only INET6? funny

dch: so to be fair, it's just minecraft. ;] but it's a known write spammer. i don't know the specific IO characteristics, but i've lost ssds that way in the past. i tend to host the game in a ramdisk, then i use a cron job to rsync down to disk for a consistent copy

the idea of delaying writes and such is the opposite of my professional experience where every write counts, data cannot be lost, databases write with fsync mandatory, etc :P

mvanbaak: we will disable INET at some point, the same way IPX got disabled in the past

mzar: \o/ how do you get to e.g. github?

do you have some nat64 or something similar on a gateway?

the current game is now over 20GB ramdisk, and so i'm looking at alternatives. that's why i was thinking a COW buffer. but maybe zfs sync=disabled, and a longer txg delay may work

btw I get ~ 200Mb/s on the new if_iwx driver now, which is awesome

nice

Demosthenex: there's a zfs histogram thing somewhere, shows you size of writes

Demosthenex: gist.skunkwerks.at/dch/62d6c56f40cf4338a2d3027c5d3301ff

aah bonus, its not even zfs specific, so you can see what sort of i/o pattern is used from minecraft (change the process name from firefox ofc)

dch: Is there a way you can limit that to local files? If I understand correctly network read/write will also show up there.

hm, the vfs layer should have probes for write to, that should only be writes to filesystems then, but no idea how it is named

erk: my dtrace skills are pretty limited, but this would be a nice addition. I don't yet know how we'd filter on that, syscall:: is the wrong layer, we'd need vfs or similar

maybe fbt::VOP_WRITE_AP: ?

oh, and you can inspect fds[arg0].fi_fs in the syscall probe maybe, not sure how portable that is brendangregg.com/DTrace/DTrace_Chapter_5_File_Systems.pdf

I really need to sit down and learn dtrace one of these days. not knowing it is holding me back

dch: unfortunately iostat and other tools don't work on tmpfs

dch: I have nat64 to connect to github

will iwm(4) get 802.11ac support ?

mzar: with clat?

nimaje: yes

mzar: I would assume all the new stuff goes into if_iwx(4) and if_iwlwifi(4)

but check the manpage for the latter at least, it reports which devices are supported and it goes quite a way back already

iwx manpage is still wip I think

dch: thans for the clue, I had to switch from iwm to iwlwifi

dch: that gist, what's a .d? what's making your graph?

hmm is there a IRC channel for pf/networking for freebsd, my messages just get lost to the backlog :/

Demosthenex: a dtrace script as you can see from the shbang and dtrace has many nice features like quantize()

nimaje: sorry must have missed the shebang. awesome

polarian: you can check the channel list, but that's the nature of irc. people who care scroll back a reasonable amount and read ;]

or you keep bumping your messages and annoy the absolute fuck out of people

I could use the ML but asking stupid firewalling questions on there will be cemented into history

anyone with a search engine can read your fuck ups :p

I guess thats not the worse thing, unless you make a complete show of yourself

issue is claws-mail is broken since the Q2 port snapshot, so I was going to try alpine like I have wanted to for ages, but I cant seem to set the user-id for the email and therefore cant use ML right now :/

bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=285900 possibly due to this :/

polarian: there is #pf on this network

tykling: that is mainly focused at openbsd no?

oo 8 people!

it doesn't say :) I use it on freebsd

how many people do you need to answer a question

polarian: you could also ask in discord

tykling: 1 other, provided they aren't a zombie account :P

I was surprised there was even 8 people in the channel

[tj]: I rather not fix the problem than install Discord :P

it is nice that some people have a choice about the tools they get to use

polarian: so... you want free support, you want to dictate the medium where it happens, and 8 people is not enough for you to even try to ask your question. Do you think maybe your expectations need some adjustment here?

tykling: If that medium involves compromising security, freedom and privacy then yes, I rather not solve the problem :)

and I was going to ask my question in #pf it takes a bit to type and I was on a different workspace not using my IRC client, do I need to instantly post to #pf? please do not make assumptions that I do not deem 8 people good enough

alright, well good luck with it

I have cursed ideas in my skull

Question! I am ssh'ing to do Dev on a device that is frequently rebooting (kernel crashes)

I'm wondering if there is an alternative to vs code that has similar functionality that I could use/

by "similar functionality", I just mean text editing and a terminal.

why are you trying to dev on a crashy machine?

I'm doing kernel work for FreeBSD.

farhan: do work locally and rsync it over

rsync -zvah local-dir user@remote:/path/to/dir

omit the -v if you don't want verbose

farhan: ssh+vi? vs code can be quite belligerent

I currently am doing that but vim breaks upon every reboot

vim problems?

if your system is crashing while just editing text, it is likely time to start inspecting hardware

so to be clear, its crashing due to my kernel driver that I'm working on.

No vim problems, I just dislike having to re-open my terminal and vim location every time.

Would be nice to just hit "reconnect" and its in the same location.

your options are either using something like vscode and installing the vscode remote under a linuxulator since ms doesn't ship one for freebsd, or using an editor on your local machine and then rsyncing/sshfs/whatever

otherwise you'll just have to deal with the fact that the box running your editor is in fact crashing

I use the anvil editor and it has ssh interface built in so it just connect when you load or save something, works for me.

farhan: I have a FreeBSD vm setting idle right now that you could make use of. If that would actually help any

Idle setting? I do not follow?

sitting idle, not doing anything

"sitting" yeah -- sorry

Meaning, I do not understand how that would be of assistance.

It may not

I just thought it might :P