i may be throwing a random question out here, does anyone know any good source (beyond man) page to figure out how to pipe redirected output to another program? for example this: whatis $RESULTS 2>> /dev/null >> good_output.txt

i am trying to "capture" the >> and move it to awk before i send it to the file

beyond man? seems specific to whatever shell you're using

scoobybejesus: it is in a /bin/sh script

i may just leave it as a perl script, it working.. how it is.. not sure but it is

voy4g3r2: whats wrong with perl ?

appending to /dev/null eh?

2>/dev/null | awk >> file

works

in sh

$ cd $HOME ; ls -la | awk '{print $1}' > output ; less output

he wanted to append

i think

if not, don't use >>

perl is fine too

perl is more than fine

i often start with shell, then move to perl if it's complex or just doesn't work there

Hello, everyone

hi

do you have any reccomendations for linux distributions that are similar to freebsd? i currently use gentoo linux and wish to use freebsd, but i can't because the games i play don't run well and i have had trouble getting sufficient wifi speeds with freebsd's wifi drivers. distos i've heard about so far are void linux, crux, slackware, alpine, and kiss linux. if you've tried any of these distros, what are your thoguhts about them and how do

they compare to gentoo?

unrealapex not so much of linux is truly like freebsd, but if I had to pick one, it'd be crux

but crux is source only and not very friendly for it

i hear you have to compile your own kernel. is that true?

fedora is pretty solid

i use fedora kde

the installer iso ships a premade config but yes, you have to compile the kernel. it comes with built pkgs for things up to xorg but once installed any updates much be compiled (including kernels)

is fedora diy?

what channel am i in

#freebsd

that might be a hassle.

it's not diy, it just works :)

#linux

:p

haha

i've tried to compile my own a few times but i'd never boot into a working kernel :/

i would always miss compiling some driver for my laptop

just get a steamdeck and move on with your life

next question

make menuconfig

yes

make menuconfig is a blessing

r0ni: so crux doesn't have a preconfigured kernel with distro patche like gentoo does?

makr: what makes fedora a good freebsd equilvalent?

the iso boots so there is a kernel and it ships with a modular config but it's not the default. you can always use any config from any distor that works with your hardware

i should have stated my goals with my os: simplicity, flexibility, and minimalism.

i see

unrealapex: it's well designed, well put-together, stable but with up-to-date packages, with minimal changes to packages from upstream

what's the install process like?

how does dnf compare to portage on gentoo?

haven't tried portage. dnf is great, it's really straightforward to use and the subcommands are easy to understand

what init system does fedora use?

systemd

D:

haha

i'll add an additional requirement to my search: sensible init system :)

how about, most bsd like init system :D

makr: i was going to reconsider debian until i remembered debian uses systemd

the problem with linux is that it will be difficult to find a distro without systemd that still gives all the other benefits

could you clarify what benefits you mean?

because systemd is mainstream, and all the mainstream distros use it, and those tend to be the most well-tested

that's a good point

apart from the philosophical difference, the systemd cli is very straightforward and service files are really easy to write

openrc makes writing init scripts really easy, they're just shell scripts

> 10. Minix - The simpelest embedded microkernal OS possible

20. Plan9 - Only use if you are a full autismo.

30. Oasis - statically compiled, simple, source-based linux.

40. OpenBSD - Very clean codebase, very simple, very secure.

50. KISS - Kiss linux is new, decently well known, and ungodly simple.

60. Alpine - A very popular just-works musl/busybox linux.

70. Sabotage - Manual bootstrapped ultraminimal source-based static linux.

80. Glaucus - Brand new bleeding-edge linux built round musl libc and toybox.

90. Gentoo - The most popular distro here, source based, can be made suckless.

yeah if you have something nice like rc.subr in freebsd, regular init is just as pleasant

and a lot simpler to grok

have you heard about slackware?

here's my sorted list of distros to look at: bpa.st/CTFA

void and alpine are the ones that i have been interested in in that list

haven't tried either yet though

i wanted to try slackware for something but it didn't run in QEMU for me

i hear void linux is good.

imo you really need something with updated kernel and packages

for me at least, that's the top priority, so i don't have to fight old bugs

void or alpine seem to be the most well maintained.

this website is helpful for knowing that btw - repology.org

slackware is best using the current dev branch

makr: thanks

unrealapex you may be interested in chimera linux. freebsd userland, musl-based linux distro

unrealapex: np :)

crux has the most up to date packages, after that is slackware

r0ni: i've heard of chimera. have you tried it?

in #freebsd today, which linux distro is the best :p

which freebsd-like linux distro is the best :p

telinit 0

:O

wouldn't linux distros be indistinguishable from each other standing in bsd territory?

unrealapex yes, its a nice system, but it's different

ketas: maybe the only true way to experience freebsd is to... **gasp** install freebsd :D

johnjaye: the kernel would. i'm looking for a distro with a bsd userland, ports?, and great documentation.

one thing slack and crux have in common? poor documentation

run linux vm :å

:p

well linux and windows have place

osx etc

debdrup: Well kinda -ish. it works perfectly with linuxes and OpenBSD.

> <ketas> run linux vm :å

someone on reddit suggested the other way around

unrealapex: um... macos has a bsd userland...

lol

ketas: the only reason i stick with gentoo/[insert somewhat bsd-like os] is because freebsd lacks recent wifi drivers for my computer and because most games that run on linux don't on freebsd

r0ni: D:

chimera might be the closest thing i've got to freebsd on linux

johnjaye: might as well mention playstation eh

:)

adrian chadd works on that again

wifi

but yeah

that's true"

!

wifi is poor

johnjaye: macos isn't a bad choice but trying it a few times, i was discouraged by its computer illerate design

i understand the lack of recent wifi drivers though. freebsd is primarly for servers correct?

i just found that we have stupid amount of old wifi drivers

esp usb

yeah

from some random maintainer log, i read that new wifi driver progress has been slow because newer wifi standards are more complex and the maintainers want to write a good driver.

it's not like hw makers help either

but hey, mellanox has them for fbsd

but those are server wired nics

ketas: well it is late and i'm sleepy

you can also buy a usb wifi thing maybe?

that's really a shame. i should research for more bsd friendly hardawre

does bsd support those?

johnjaye: would they work regardless of bsd driver support?

i'm not sure how to evaluate drivers in bsd actually.

i don't recall the handbook mentioning it

can't say many usb ones work

the motherboard i'm going to purchase has a wifi dongle

johnjaye: know i can find more info about usb wifi dongles?

a wifi dongle is exactly what i've been trying to find information about

someone had bt sound working tho

i was surprised

wifi dongles generally appear to be plug and play

not sure if this applies to *bsd yet

it's half way hw vendor business decision and half way lack of manpower

why it's in sorry state

D:

does freebsd have any wifi 7 drivers availible?

a motherboard i've going to buy has a realtek wifi 7 card: Realtek® Wi-Fi 7 RTL8922AE

god knows when 11be comes

11n works in SOME hw

realtek is a weird thing too

i guess i need to accept using chimera linux :(

it's everywhere

you brought up virtualization earlier and i think that'd be a good route too if i really wanted to.

how's virtualization on bsd?

i'm using qemu, kvm, and virt-manager on linux

bhyve exists

i love the freebsd wiki <3

i run qemus

slowly

so performance isn't near native as it is on linux for running linux and other *nix operating systems?

virtualbox ran fine tho

when i used it

> <ketas> slowly

how slow are we talking?

depends i guess

well i have slow 32bit arm vm

maybe you don't need it

hell knows what goes wrong there

i'll be running linux and windows wms

i bet vb still works fine?

that was native speed or so

i'll keep that in mind.

damn wiki.freebsd.org/bhyve/Windows'

damn wiki.freebsd.org/bhyve/Windows

ehm

why damn?

that was something else

it looks like you need a kernel module to get near native performance forums.freebsd.org/threads/virtualbox-vs-qemu.44732

damn hw here doesn't support needed virtualization functions

i think

yeah

how's gaming with steam on bsd?

i tried to get linuxulator working but wasn't successful.

have to ask someone else i guess

i had fbsd laptop but sadly it broke

as expected, ani-cheat support is non-existant on bsd

trying to get new one working eh

if i can get a windows game to run on linux with wine, it'd work on freebsd right?

i hope it works :p

i'm not sure what wine does there

i was able to play genshin impact through wine on linux

ketas: what do you mean?

i've used wine but not for games

same thing for games

some games' anti-cheat might disallow this

hasn't been the case for genshin for a few months

before irssi i tried to run mirc in wine in x vnc

worked hah

but proper bs

lol

i think gaming on freebsd might be a no-go for me

i've been playing "the finals" recently and it uses easy-anticheat which i don't think works on bsd

yeah, unless os games maybe

i've tried those a bit

nvidia has binary gpu drivers for fbsd btw

funnily

unsure for which gpus

are they any good?

supposedly

i should get some things working again

easy anticheat doesn't work :/

but support is sucky

wifi, gpu, oh well

if you choose hw, it will work

and prepared for low endness :p

oh it's all sad

my dreams of daily driving freebsd will come true someday 😢

until then, i might as well give chimera linux a try

thanks for the help ketas

:)

thank god flash went away btw

r0ni: thanks for reminding me about chimera, it looks much more promising than when i initially heard about it

that was also fun to try to get working

adobe flash?

yeah

there are still some open source implementations of flash around

sure

depends what daily driver does, it might do fbsd but any new is tricky

sad eh

very sad :(

for me that means working on writing shell scripts and some gaming. bsd is awesome for the former and i really came to appreciate its userland. the reason i stopped using bsd was because of wifi drivers like i mentioned earlier. most websites today are bloated garbage which takes forever to load at a few megabytes per second.

Anyone running on freebsd on Intel LGA1851/z890M?

If yes, what works and what doesn't?

I don't have anything on that new of a platform

I got myself some new hardware, so far running linux. But wanting to check how is support coming for BSD.

my adventure would be to just write FreeBSD-Current to a USB Stick and see if it boots. if it does get a shell and run some commands to try to see if your hardware is detected and going

stormshadow: think that checks out?

SponiX: Yep, on it now!

Thanks!

If you would, let me know here if it boots and functions. I'm curious

SponiX: It boots successfully, and most of the hardware is detected, except for the Wi-Fi and Ethernet, which was somewhat expected.

stormshadow: which type of hardware/machine? (I logged on and first thing I saw was the boots successfully line)

Tenkawa: Intel LGA1851/z890M/Arrow Lake

Interesting.. which hardware does yours not see?

I'm working on arm64 and I've been fixing parts there...

BTW I ran - FreeBSD-15.0-CURRENT-amd64-20241212

I need to "update" my x86.. its quite a few years old

(the hardware I mean)

For me, it didn't detect the Wifi and Ethernet devices

Do you have a wifi usb or eth dongle you can use?

Neither. :(

if you can get an updated src on there and buildworld/kernel you might find some drivers

darn

Thats what I'm using on my RPI5 here

Have current from yesterday on it using that trick heh

Tenkawa: that iso I linked him to is a -CURRENT build from only a few days ago (the 12th). So no need to really build from source

stormshadow: you can order a "Linux Compatible" USB NIC off of Amazon for about $20 though that will likely work. Or you can also get an AX210 Intel wifi chip and put that in the board if yours is the m.2 socket wifi chip type

SponiX: he does at the commit ratio I've been seeing

That will cost about $20 on Amazon also

Tenkawa: fair enough. I'm new to FreeBSD anyway, so will take your word for it

SponiX: I'm checking that board now

If you could use one of those devices to git pull the current src - It might help out doing a build I guess ;)

I gotta tke my wife to work, will be back in like 10 minutes

stormshadow: nice board

oh.. its uefi too.. thats going to be "fun"

stormshadow: this "is" the Asus MB right?

Yeah the hardware is very new.

hi

Yeah very neat looking board though

Tenkawa: ASUS Prime, rightly guessed

I like those antenna connectors

lol

Wifi on linux runs fine without them.

XD

BTW these are the wifi and eth devices

Bus 003 Device 006: ID 13d3:3602 IMC Networks Wireless_Device

84:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8125 2.5GbE Controller (rev 0c)

Are they not supported?

I was just about to ask if you had a lsusb equiv

IMC doubtful

ahh... ok there's a workaround needed for "that" r8125

check out that article

Its for that board

Going, through it now.

sweet

my platform is nearly a decade old

both of my rigs actually

QQ though... I'm very new to BSD, and it might sound a bit critical. BSD is credited as the inventors of the networking stack. Then why is networking support so lagging here?

makes for very well supported hardware though

stormshadow: heheh that would be a "long" story just in itself

stormshadow: the tcp/ip stack itself is solid and robust, you hare having issues with specific new hardware drivers

I think FreeBSD's perceived issues with networking is a driver issue. That is on the hardware vendor.

Linux has gained a lot of commercial vendor type support in recent years too. On top of having a LOT of corporate sponsored development from folks like IBM/Red-Hat, Google, Microsoft and MORE

delta0: I think "all" OS's suffer from vendor issues

Well, Microsoft always gets day 1 vendor support for their hardware

SponiX: Linux has an advantage but its still in focused areas

Linux is getting better, and everything else is left up to folks in their basements LOL

RISC-V for example is still getting neglected from vendors a lot

(There's of course not near as much in it for them there)

Yeah, they go where the money is. At least anything US based - YAY Capitalism ;)

Indeed

It's important to just read the Hardware Compatibility List and run pick hardware a few years supported.

delta0: unless you wanna be involved in the driver tinkering of the new hotness stuff ;)

SponiX: which is what "I" do...

Tenkawa: nice to meet you by the way. And I think it is very cool that you do that

I'm more towards the delta0 logic on this one. I buy hardware 2nd hand off eBay most of the time, or get it handed down from my kids Gaming Computers

nice to meet you as well.. Yeah I do Linux/BSD devel as a hobby now... I spent 30 years doing devel/admin for a career so I figure it makes a fun hobby now :

:)

Tenkawa: I just got a bit involved with the KDE Desktop team, they are doing all the work, and I'm hosting my machine a a build box for jhale

Tenkawa: I spent 20+ years doing IT for the Army. Most all of it attempting to make Mirosoft function LOL

Haahaa.... yeah... I just put the MS stuff out of my memory

Did get some Solaris and Linux in there at times, but not as often as I would have liked

I can't code for shit, so I try to test stuff and file good bug reports when possible

git/github are still kind of a mystery to me though. So, when time permits I am going to try to get more familiar with them

Yep, Solaris, HP-UX, SCO, NCR MP-RAS, SVR4

I went through a lot of them

(I worked for AT&T/NCR/Lucent so that exposed me to a lot)

Tenkawa: I've been doing Linux as my primary home OS since about 1995. And really only touched FreeBSD a bit when working at an ISP during college. I two boxes setup as our DNS servers

Tenkawa: repsonse times went from 4 full real seconds on NT 4.0 to 0.05 MS on FreeBSD

haha

Needless to say, our hundreds (yes only hundreds) of customers liked the results

Tenkawa: you missed AIX ?

My first dns server was an ISP I ran in a small town on a small set of Linux boxes

no no.. AIX was later

I was doing that before I finished..

Nice

Tenkawa: I know we just met, but I have a strange request. Do you think you could build qbittorrent on the 64-bit Haiku Beta 5? ;)

I did that on Power5 machines... never got anyneweer ones

s/anyneweer/any newer/

Not sure my poor x86 wouldn't melt down to build that lol

you should see the "condition" of my one x86 is in

Tenkawa: well I could host the Haiku session in a virt-manager vm and have you ssh into that ;)

I think building a qemu/jail vm on one of my pi's would do it faster lol

faster than your x86, or faster than my hosted vm?

touche... I would lose to hosted

I could allocate around 16 Brodwell cores to it and 64GB of Ram ;)

could install the whole Haiku OS into a ramdisk LOL

my stuff is a decade old, but I go overkill on damn near everything

heh

Gotta go afk for a few hours... be back later....

cool

You need a qb binary?

I need to crash out for a few hours myself. been up since like 02:30

delta0: there is one in the 32-bit gcc Haiku package repo. Just not the 64-bit

delta0: I've not even booted Haiku on either of my rigs to know if it has enough support to be a bare metal install. Just a thought experiment

I would virtualize it, just to save time if I was so curious.

I already have it in a vm, works well there

Build it there?

yeah, that is the plan for qbittorrent. I just don't have the know how at this point

I mean, I've built from source on Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris and others... Guess I could just start reading up on that

I've not "ported" anything though. and it seems the 32-bit version is done with gcc, and the 64-bit system packages are not. not sure what libc and cc they use actually

Ideally though, I would like to host the Haiku torrents on Haiku itself

unrealapex: chimera is Linux + musl + FreeBSD userland

how does that equation even work

linux + bsd??

johnjaye: well, you see debian/kfreebsd? well in duncan's case that would be freebsd/klinux :P

Ltning: alright, starting to land some things: cgit.freebsd.org/src/log/sys/arm64/apple

johnjaye: some people just have a need to use the most exotic thing they can find.

We have a year to sort out whether we can sneak some rust into the kernel so that we can use some of this other contributors' work, and we have a couple more drivers to land in C

no need to imagine, debian/kfreebsd was a real thing, and chimera Linux is real as well

(but debian/kfreebsd is no longer extant)

w00t kevans_

Back...

Its a shame kFreeBSD fell by the wayside

heheh

is it though?

wiki.freebsd.org/PkgBase This is seriously cool

i should try that

that solves a lot of issues

tracking all the files

and ability to only include certain items

you don't need to track all the files?

is that so?

rtprio: well you do?

need to track them

well you don't *need* to

i don't know why you would be

CrtxReavr: i'd like to see that

phd coming up

:p

I've started moving more @FreshPorts subversion repos into GitHub - the website code has been there for years. The backend code is next. Some of that is now online. If you want to help convert something, see FreshPorts/periodics #3 for the first conversion.

rtprio: well only other way to not track is to use ObsoleteFiles.inc type system where you track 25174 files back to 2000-01-*

:p

git is maybe good, but why the hub, why is like everything there

the hub?

the github? everything isn't there, it's just a mirror

rtprio, bpa.st/FUKQ

bpa.st/KMKQ <== you meay need to tweak the shabang.

rtprio: well many do use it as primary

you may as well do whatever you want

bootloader too old please upgrade. must have missed this in the upgrade to 14.2 odd

Ober: I saw the same thing.

no worries, if you can boot then upgrade, if you already upgraded, but still see this message, then it's a bug

How should one check if the bootloader is too old ?

sudo efibootmgr -v

efibootmgr: efi_get_variable: Bad address