03:21:03 i may be throwing a random question out here, does anyone know any good source (beyond man) page to figure out how to pipe redirected output to another program? for example this: whatis $RESULTS 2>> /dev/null >> good_output.txt 03:21:24 i am trying to "capture" the >> and move it to awk before i send it to the file 03:30:03 beyond man? seems specific to whatever shell you're using 04:09:46 scoobybejesus: it is in a /bin/sh script 04:10:05 i may just leave it as a perl script, it working.. how it is.. not sure but it is 04:25:01 voy4g3r2: whats wrong with perl ? 04:27:23 appending to /dev/null eh? 04:28:35 2>/dev/null | awk >> file 04:28:40 works 04:28:51 in sh 04:29:18 $ cd $HOME ; ls -la | awk '{print $1}' > output ; less output 04:29:42 he wanted to append 04:29:58 i think 04:30:23 if not, don't use >> 04:30:59 perl is fine too 04:31:07 perl is more than fine 04:32:10 i often start with shell, then move to perl if it's complex or just doesn't work there 04:47:46 Hello, everyone 05:21:57 hi 05:52:24 do you have any reccomendations for linux distributions that are similar to freebsd? i currently use gentoo linux and wish to use freebsd, but i can't because the games i play don't run well and i have had trouble getting sufficient wifi speeds with freebsd's wifi drivers. distos i've heard about so far are void linux, crux, slackware, alpine, and kiss linux. if you've tried any of these distros, what are your thoguhts about them and how do 05:52:24 they compare to gentoo? 05:57:16 unrealapex not so much of linux is truly like freebsd, but if I had to pick one, it'd be crux 05:57:49 but crux is source only and not very friendly for it 05:58:44 i hear you have to compile your own kernel. is that true? 05:58:59 fedora is pretty solid 05:59:09 i use fedora kde 05:59:56 the installer iso ships a premade config but yes, you have to compile the kernel. it comes with built pkgs for things up to xorg but once installed any updates much be compiled (including kernels) 06:00:03 is fedora diy? 06:00:18 what channel am i in 06:00:21 #freebsd 06:00:30 that might be a hassle. 06:00:32 it's not diy, it just works :) 06:00:38 #linux 06:00:40 :p 06:00:45 haha 06:00:51 i've tried to compile my own a few times but i'd never boot into a working kernel :/ 06:01:08 i would always miss compiling some driver for my laptop 06:01:10 just get a steamdeck and move on with your life 06:01:13 next question 06:01:19 make menuconfig 06:01:23 yes 06:01:35 make menuconfig is a blessing 06:02:13 r0ni: so crux doesn't have a preconfigured kernel with distro patche like gentoo does? 06:03:08 makr: what makes fedora a good freebsd equilvalent? 06:03:10 the iso boots so there is a kernel and it ships with a modular config but it's not the default. you can always use any config from any distor that works with your hardware 06:04:29 i should have stated my goals with my os: simplicity, flexibility, and minimalism. 06:04:56 i see 06:05:00 unrealapex: it's well designed, well put-together, stable but with up-to-date packages, with minimal changes to packages from upstream 06:05:03 what's the install process like? 06:05:28 how does dnf compare to portage on gentoo? 06:06:25 haven't tried portage. dnf is great, it's really straightforward to use and the subcommands are easy to understand 06:07:05 what init system does fedora use? 06:07:26 systemd 06:07:32 D: 06:07:48 haha 06:08:08 i'll add an additional requirement to my search: sensible init system :) 06:08:28 how about, most bsd like init system :D 06:08:49 makr: i was going to reconsider debian until i remembered debian uses systemd 06:10:00 the problem with linux is that it will be difficult to find a distro without systemd that still gives all the other benefits 06:10:50 could you clarify what benefits you mean? 06:11:29 because systemd is mainstream, and all the mainstream distros use it, and those tend to be the most well-tested 06:11:44 that's a good point 06:11:52 apart from the philosophical difference, the systemd cli is very straightforward and service files are really easy to write 06:13:00 openrc makes writing init scripts really easy, they're just shell scripts 06:13:23 > 10. Minix - The simpelest embedded microkernal OS possible 06:13:24 20. Plan9 - Only use if you are a full autismo. 06:13:24 30. Oasis - statically compiled, simple, source-based linux. 06:13:24 40. OpenBSD - Very clean codebase, very simple, very secure. 06:13:24 50. KISS - Kiss linux is new, decently well known, and ungodly simple. 06:13:24 60. Alpine - A very popular just-works musl/busybox linux. 06:13:24 70. Sabotage - Manual bootstrapped ultraminimal source-based static linux. 06:13:25 80. Glaucus - Brand new bleeding-edge linux built round musl libc and toybox. 06:13:25 90. Gentoo - The most popular distro here, source based, can be made suckless. 06:13:32 https://github.com/173duprot/harm-less 06:14:05 yeah if you have something nice like rc.subr in freebsd, regular init is just as pleasant 06:14:17 and a lot simpler to grok 06:15:19 have you heard about slackware? 06:16:26 here's my sorted list of distros to look at: https://bpa.st/CTFA 06:18:02 void and alpine are the ones that i have been interested in in that list 06:18:07 haven't tried either yet though 06:18:29 i wanted to try slackware for something but it didn't run in QEMU for me 06:19:06 i hear void linux is good. 06:20:03 imo you really need something with updated kernel and packages 06:20:34 for me at least, that's the top priority, so i don't have to fight old bugs 06:20:52 void or alpine seem to be the most well maintained. 06:21:03 this website is helpful for knowing that btw - https://repology.org 06:23:10 slackware is best using the current dev branch 06:23:18 makr: thanks 06:24:09 unrealapex you may be interested in chimera linux. freebsd userland, musl-based linux distro 06:24:17 unrealapex: np :) 06:27:21 crux has the most up to date packages, after that is slackware 06:28:25 r0ni: i've heard of chimera. have you tried it? 06:33:31 in #freebsd today, which linux distro is the best :p 06:34:59 which freebsd-like linux distro is the best :p 06:37:05 telinit 0 06:38:17 :O 06:38:19 wouldn't linux distros be indistinguishable from each other standing in bsd territory? 06:38:34 unrealapex yes, its a nice system, but it's different 06:39:27 ketas: maybe the only true way to experience freebsd is to... **gasp** install freebsd :D 06:40:57 johnjaye: the kernel would. i'm looking for a distro with a bsd userland, ports?, and great documentation. 06:41:26 one thing slack and crux have in common? poor documentation 06:41:39 run linux vm :å 06:41:41 :p 06:42:05 well linux and windows have place 06:42:10 osx etc 06:42:42 debdrup: Well kinda -ish. it works perfectly with linuxes and OpenBSD. 06:42:48 > run linux vm :å 06:42:55 someone on reddit suggested the other way around 06:42:57 unrealapex: um... macos has a bsd userland... 06:43:08 lol 06:44:18 ketas: the only reason i stick with gentoo/[insert somewhat bsd-like os] is because freebsd lacks recent wifi drivers for my computer and because most games that run on linux don't on freebsd 06:44:31 r0ni: D: 06:45:02 chimera might be the closest thing i've got to freebsd on linux 06:45:39 johnjaye: might as well mention playstation eh 06:45:59 :) 06:46:43 adrian chadd works on that again 06:46:44 wifi 06:46:48 but yeah 06:47:08 that's true" 06:47:10 ! 06:47:27 wifi is poor 06:47:32 johnjaye: macos isn't a bad choice but trying it a few times, i was discouraged by its computer illerate design 06:47:55 i understand the lack of recent wifi drivers though. freebsd is primarly for servers correct? 06:48:28 i just found that we have stupid amount of old wifi drivers 06:48:41 esp usb 06:48:54 yeah 06:49:12 from some random maintainer log, i read that new wifi driver progress has been slow because newer wifi standards are more complex and the maintainers want to write a good driver. 06:49:13 it's not like hw makers help either 06:49:34 but hey, mellanox has them for fbsd 06:49:45 but those are server wired nics 06:49:50 ketas: well it is late and i'm sleepy 06:50:04 you can also buy a usb wifi thing maybe? 06:50:09 that's really a shame. i should research for more bsd friendly hardawre 06:50:10 does bsd support those? 06:50:26 johnjaye: would they work regardless of bsd driver support? 06:50:51 i'm not sure how to evaluate drivers in bsd actually. 06:50:58 i don't recall the handbook mentioning it 06:50:59 can't say many usb ones work 06:51:01 the motherboard i'm going to purchase has a wifi dongle 06:51:15 johnjaye: know i can find more info about usb wifi dongles? 06:51:43 a wifi dongle is exactly what i've been trying to find information about 06:51:57 someone had bt sound working tho 06:52:09 i was surprised 06:52:30 wifi dongles generally appear to be plug and play 06:52:38 not sure if this applies to *bsd yet 06:53:19 it's half way hw vendor business decision and half way lack of manpower 06:53:28 why it's in sorry state 06:53:29 D: 06:54:04 does freebsd have any wifi 7 drivers availible? 06:54:53 a motherboard i've going to buy has a realtek wifi 7 card: Realtek® Wi-Fi 7 RTL8922AE 06:55:03 https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X870-GAMING-X-WIFI7/sp#sp 06:55:07 god knows when 11be comes 06:55:16 11n works in SOME hw 06:56:37 realtek is a weird thing too 06:56:55 i guess i need to accept using chimera linux :( 06:56:55 it's everywhere 06:57:18 you brought up virtualization earlier and i think that'd be a good route too if i really wanted to. 06:57:32 how's virtualization on bsd? 06:57:55 i'm using qemu, kvm, and virt-manager on linux 06:58:04 bhyve exists 06:58:40 https://wiki.freebsd.org/qemu 06:58:49 i love the freebsd wiki <3 06:59:00 i run qemus 06:59:03 slowly 06:59:31 so performance isn't near native as it is on linux for running linux and other *nix operating systems? 07:00:03 virtualbox ran fine tho 07:00:16 when i used it 07:00:33 > slowly 07:00:39 how slow are we talking? 07:00:42 depends i guess 07:01:01 well i have slow 32bit arm vm 07:01:10 maybe you don't need it 07:01:24 hell knows what goes wrong there 07:01:38 i'll be running linux and windows wms 07:02:03 i bet vb still works fine? 07:02:21 that was native speed or so 07:02:54 i'll keep that in mind. 07:03:47 damn https://wiki.freebsd.org/bhyve/Windows' 07:03:49 damn https://wiki.freebsd.org/bhyve/Windows 07:03:56 ehm 07:03:59 why damn? 07:04:11 that was something else 07:04:47 it looks like you need a kernel module to get near native performance https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/virtualbox-vs-qemu.44732/ 07:04:51 damn hw here doesn't support needed virtualization functions 07:04:56 i think 07:05:06 yeah 07:05:40 how's gaming with steam on bsd? 07:05:57 i tried to get linuxulator working but wasn't successful. 07:06:08 have to ask someone else i guess 07:06:55 i had fbsd laptop but sadly it broke 07:07:10 as expected, ani-cheat support is non-existant on bsd 07:07:13 trying to get new one working eh 07:07:33 if i can get a windows game to run on linux with wine, it'd work on freebsd right? 07:07:51 i hope it works :p 07:08:08 i'm not sure what wine does there 07:08:09 i was able to play genshin impact through wine on linux 07:08:21 ketas: what do you mean? 07:08:39 i've used wine but not for games 07:08:56 same thing for games 07:09:10 some games' anti-cheat might disallow this 07:09:24 hasn't been the case for genshin for a few months 07:09:26 before irssi i tried to run mirc in wine in x vnc 07:09:31 worked hah 07:09:37 but proper bs 07:09:55 lol 07:10:23 i think gaming on freebsd might be a no-go for me 07:10:48 i've been playing "the finals" recently and it uses easy-anticheat which i don't think works on bsd 07:10:49 yeah, unless os games maybe 07:11:06 i've tried those a bit 07:12:02 nvidia has binary gpu drivers for fbsd btw 07:12:04 funnily 07:12:19 unsure for which gpus 07:12:28 are they any good? 07:13:31 supposedly 07:13:46 i should get some things working again 07:14:08 easy anticheat doesn't work :/ 07:14:13 but support is sucky 07:14:20 wifi, gpu, oh well 07:15:28 if you choose hw, it will work 07:15:41 and prepared for low endness :p 07:15:49 oh it's all sad 07:17:20 my dreams of daily driving freebsd will come true someday 😢 07:18:01 until then, i might as well give chimera linux a try 07:18:25 thanks for the help ketas 07:18:31 :) 07:19:03 thank god flash went away btw 07:19:22 r0ni: thanks for reminding me about chimera, it looks much more promising than when i initially heard about it 07:19:27 that was also fun to try to get working 07:19:33 adobe flash? 07:19:37 yeah 07:19:51 there are still some open source implementations of flash around 07:19:59 sure 07:19:59 https://ruffle.rs/ 07:21:03 depends what daily driver does, it might do fbsd but any new is tricky 07:21:11 sad eh 07:24:37 very sad :( 07:26:07 for me that means working on writing shell scripts and some gaming. bsd is awesome for the former and i really came to appreciate its userland. the reason i stopped using bsd was because of wifi drivers like i mentioned earlier. most websites today are bloated garbage which takes forever to load at a few megabytes per second. 11:50:55 Anyone running on freebsd on Intel LGA1851/z890M? 11:51:11 If yes, what works and what doesn't? 11:51:27 I don't have anything on that new of a platform 11:52:58 I got myself some new hardware, so far running linux. But wanting to check how is support coming for BSD. 12:00:23 my adventure would be to just write FreeBSD-Current to a USB Stick and see if it boots. if it does get a shell and run some commands to try to see if your hardware is detected and going 12:02:09 stormshadow: think that checks out? 12:02:42 SponiX: Yep, on it now! 12:03:18 https://download.freebsd.org/snapshots/ISO-IMAGES/15.0/FreeBSD-15.0-CURRENT-amd64-20241212-af66ffbf69e4-274168-disc1.iso 12:04:17 Thanks! 12:09:22 If you would, let me know here if it boots and functions. I'm curious 12:37:35 SponiX: It boots successfully, and most of the hardware is detected, except for the Wi-Fi and Ethernet, which was somewhat expected. 12:45:01 stormshadow: which type of hardware/machine? (I logged on and first thing I saw was the boots successfully line) 12:45:35 Tenkawa: Intel LGA1851/z890M/Arrow Lake 12:45:55 Interesting.. which hardware does yours not see? 12:46:23 I'm working on arm64 and I've been fixing parts there... 12:46:56 BTW I ran - FreeBSD-15.0-CURRENT-amd64-20241212 12:47:06 I need to "update" my x86.. its quite a few years old 12:47:21 (the hardware I mean) 12:47:53 For me, it didn't detect the Wifi and Ethernet devices 12:48:10 Do you have a wifi usb or eth dongle you can use? 12:48:43 Neither. :( 12:48:49 if you can get an updated src on there and buildworld/kernel you might find some drivers 12:48:51 darn 12:49:08 Thats what I'm using on my RPI5 here 12:49:50 Have current from yesterday on it using that trick heh 12:49:57 Tenkawa: that iso I linked him to is a -CURRENT build from only a few days ago (the 12th). So no need to really build from source 12:50:51 stormshadow: you can order a "Linux Compatible" USB NIC off of Amazon for about $20 though that will likely work. Or you can also get an AX210 Intel wifi chip and put that in the board if yours is the m.2 socket wifi chip type 12:50:55 SponiX: he does at the commit ratio I've been seeing 12:51:00 That will cost about $20 on Amazon also 12:51:24 Tenkawa: fair enough. I'm new to FreeBSD anyway, so will take your word for it 12:51:45 SponiX: I'm checking that board now 12:51:48 If you could use one of those devices to git pull the current src - It might help out doing a build I guess ;) 12:52:07 I gotta tke my wife to work, will be back in like 10 minutes 12:53:35 stormshadow: nice board 12:54:25 oh.. its uefi too.. thats going to be "fun" 12:55:02 stormshadow: this "is" the Asus MB right? 12:55:14 Yeah the hardware is very new. 12:55:19 hi 12:55:30 Yeah very neat looking board though 12:55:30 Tenkawa: ASUS Prime, rightly guessed 12:55:43 I like those antenna connectors 12:55:50 lol 12:56:09 Wifi on linux runs fine without them. 12:56:13 XD 12:56:33 BTW these are the wifi and eth devices 12:56:34 Bus 003 Device 006: ID 13d3:3602 IMC Networks Wireless_Device 12:56:35 84:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8125 2.5GbE Controller (rev 0c) 12:56:45 Are they not supported? 12:56:56 I was just about to ask if you had a lsusb equiv 12:57:15 IMC doubtful 12:58:58 ahh... ok there's a workaround needed for "that" r8125 12:59:28 https://www.micski.dk/2024/12/06/realtek-rtl8125-network-interface-driver-for-freebsd/ 12:59:37 check out that article 13:00:02 Its for that board 13:01:27 Going, through it now. 13:02:32 sweet 13:02:45 my platform is nearly a decade old 13:02:54 both of my rigs actually 13:03:16 QQ though... I'm very new to BSD, and it might sound a bit critical. BSD is credited as the inventors of the networking stack. Then why is networking support so lagging here? 13:03:26 makes for very well supported hardware though 13:04:05 stormshadow: heheh that would be a "long" story just in itself 13:04:10 stormshadow: the tcp/ip stack itself is solid and robust, you hare having issues with specific new hardware drivers 13:05:12 I think FreeBSD's perceived issues with networking is a driver issue. That is on the hardware vendor. 13:05:45 Linux has gained a lot of commercial vendor type support in recent years too. On top of having a LOT of corporate sponsored development from folks like IBM/Red-Hat, Google, Microsoft and MORE 13:06:05 delta0: I think "all" OS's suffer from vendor issues 13:06:24 Well, Microsoft always gets day 1 vendor support for their hardware 13:06:37 SponiX: Linux has an advantage but its still in focused areas 13:06:50 Linux is getting better, and everything else is left up to folks in their basements LOL 13:07:00 RISC-V for example is still getting neglected from vendors a lot 13:07:41 (There's of course not near as much in it for them there) 13:08:15 Yeah, they go where the money is. At least anything US based - YAY Capitalism ;) 13:08:34 Indeed 13:10:21 It's important to just read the Hardware Compatibility List and run pick hardware a few years supported. 13:12:08 delta0: unless you wanna be involved in the driver tinkering of the new hotness stuff ;) 13:12:27 SponiX: which is what "I" do... 13:12:55 Tenkawa: nice to meet you by the way. And I think it is very cool that you do that 13:13:29 I'm more towards the delta0 logic on this one. I buy hardware 2nd hand off eBay most of the time, or get it handed down from my kids Gaming Computers 13:14:09 nice to meet you as well.. Yeah I do Linux/BSD devel as a hobby now... I spent 30 years doing devel/admin for a career so I figure it makes a fun hobby now : 13:14:11 :) 13:14:14 Tenkawa: I just got a bit involved with the KDE Desktop team, they are doing all the work, and I'm hosting my machine a a build box for jhale 13:14:52 Tenkawa: I spent 20+ years doing IT for the Army. Most all of it attempting to make Mirosoft function LOL 13:15:14 Haahaa.... yeah... I just put the MS stuff out of my memory 13:15:15 Did get some Solaris and Linux in there at times, but not as often as I would have liked 13:15:48 I can't code for shit, so I try to test stuff and file good bug reports when possible 13:16:36 git/github are still kind of a mystery to me though. So, when time permits I am going to try to get more familiar with them 13:17:01 Yep, Solaris, HP-UX, SCO, NCR MP-RAS, SVR4 13:17:08 I went through a lot of them 13:17:33 (I worked for AT&T/NCR/Lucent so that exposed me to a lot) 13:17:41 Tenkawa: I've been doing Linux as my primary home OS since about 1995. And really only touched FreeBSD a bit when working at an ISP during college. I two boxes setup as our DNS servers 13:18:15 Tenkawa: repsonse times went from 4 full real seconds on NT 4.0 to 0.05 MS on FreeBSD 13:18:25 haha 13:18:33 Needless to say, our hundreds (yes only hundreds) of customers liked the results 13:19:04 Tenkawa: you missed AIX ? 13:19:06 My first dns server was an ISP I ran in a small town on a small set of Linux boxes 13:19:13 no no.. AIX was later 13:19:38 I was doing that before I finished.. 13:19:47 Nice 13:20:33 Tenkawa: I know we just met, but I have a strange request. Do you think you could build qbittorrent on the 64-bit Haiku Beta 5? ;) 13:20:38 I did that on Power5 machines... never got anyneweer ones 13:20:56 s/anyneweer/any newer/ 13:21:58 Not sure my poor x86 wouldn't melt down to build that lol 13:22:30 you should see the "condition" of my one x86 is in 13:22:46 Tenkawa: well I could host the Haiku session in a virt-manager vm and have you ssh into that ;) 13:23:21 I think building a qemu/jail vm on one of my pi's would do it faster lol 13:23:57 faster than your x86, or faster than my hosted vm? 13:24:18 touche... I would lose to hosted 13:24:33 I could allocate around 16 Brodwell cores to it and 64GB of Ram ;) 13:25:07 could install the whole Haiku OS into a ramdisk LOL 13:25:45 my stuff is a decade old, but I go overkill on damn near everything 13:25:50 heh 13:26:10 Gotta go afk for a few hours... be back later.... 13:26:20 cool 13:26:28 You need a qb binary? 13:26:33 I need to crash out for a few hours myself. been up since like 02:30 13:27:09 delta0: there is one in the 32-bit gcc Haiku package repo. Just not the 64-bit 13:33:14 delta0: I've not even booted Haiku on either of my rigs to know if it has enough support to be a bare metal install. Just a thought experiment 13:33:46 I would virtualize it, just to save time if I was so curious. 13:34:02 I already have it in a vm, works well there 13:34:35 Build it there? 13:35:02 yeah, that is the plan for qbittorrent. I just don't have the know how at this point 13:35:27 I mean, I've built from source on Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris and others... Guess I could just start reading up on that 13:36:12 I've not "ported" anything though. and it seems the 32-bit version is done with gcc, and the 64-bit system packages are not. not sure what libc and cc they use actually 13:36:40 Ideally though, I would like to host the Haiku torrents on Haiku itself 14:37:48 unrealapex: chimera is Linux + musl + FreeBSD userland 14:43:50 how does that equation even work 14:43:55 linux + bsd?? 14:50:15 johnjaye: well, you see debian/kfreebsd? well in duncan's case that would be freebsd/klinux :P 14:50:42 Ltning: alright, starting to land some things: https://cgit.freebsd.org/src/log/sys/arm64/apple 14:51:20 johnjaye: some people just have a need to use the most exotic thing they can find. 14:51:26 We have a year to sort out whether we can sneak some rust into the kernel so that we can use some of this other contributors' work, and we have a couple more drivers to land in C 14:52:53 no need to imagine, debian/kfreebsd was a real thing, and chimera Linux is real as well 14:53:06 (but debian/kfreebsd is no longer extant) 15:11:50 w00t kevans_ 16:32:32 Back... 16:33:41 Its a shame kFreeBSD fell by the wayside 16:33:50 heheh 16:53:13 is it though? 17:00:56 https://wiki.freebsd.org/PkgBase This is seriously cool 17:29:58 i should try that 17:30:19 that solves a lot of issues 17:30:32 tracking all the files 17:31:05 and ability to only include certain items 17:43:53 you don't need to track all the files? 18:02:39 * CrtxReavr is amused that he wrote a python script that's faster than sha256(1). 18:05:10 is that so? 18:05:15 rtprio: well you do? 18:05:19 need to track them 18:05:33 well you don't *need* to 18:05:49 i don't know why you would be 18:06:05 CrtxReavr: i'd like to see that 18:06:36 phd coming up 18:06:39 :p 18:14:40 I've started moving more @FreshPorts subversion repos into GitHub - the website code has been there for years. The backend code is next. Some of that is now online. If you want to help convert something, see https://github.com/FreshPorts/periodics/issues/3 for the first conversion. 18:17:45 rtprio: well only other way to not track is to use ObsoleteFiles.inc type system where you track 25174 files back to 2000-01-* 18:17:48 :p 18:21:40 git is maybe good, but why the hub, why is like everything there 18:22:28 the hub? 18:22:39 the github? everything isn't there, it's just a mirror 18:29:04 rtprio, https://bpa.st/FUKQ 18:30:52 https://bpa.st/KMKQ <== you meay need to tweak the shabang. 18:34:23 rtprio: well many do use it as primary 18:34:41 you may as well do whatever you want 21:36:26