morning

morning koobs

thumbs: how are you ?

koobs: been up for 48 hours ish

ergh

why

because I have to fix other folks mistakes

*hugops*

hope youre getting at least $quadrupletime

I technically had a 10 minutes power nap

(I still feel terrible)

even that can help

but, likely less productive staying up, than sleeping

after 16~ hours brain is dead

services down or less severity?

oh, multiple services down

ergh

noone to tapout?

nah, no one cares to learn this hardware to fix it

erigh

anyway, going to crash in about 1-2 hours

enjoy mate

will FreeBSD UNIX 13.1 fit on a DVD or I need DVD-dl? (if you don't call it UNIX, that's fine, but as a college/university freshman, official latest stable release documentation still said so)

quite a lot less than a dvd

well ls says 4.6GB for the DVD, and my DVDs say 4.7... occasionally I've had stuff that close that because of the format, didn't actually fit

only if you want to needlessly download a bunch of packages you won't use

compare to the size of memstick.img

i have that but am asking about the DVD ISO

i don't see why they'd make a dvd image that couldn't not fit on a dvd

you don't need the extra packages, you can just use -disc1.iso.. or bootonly for that matter

because there's DVD-dl (8.5GB); I'm only asking about the DVD ISO

seems my FreeBSD 13 is on DVD-dl but I haven't made another 13.1 one yet (but want to make a rewritable one)

what dvd-dl? download.freebsd.org/releases/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/13.1

Title: Index of /releases/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/13.1/

you could have had it burned by already. aren't burnable media less than a buck each?

yee old 8cent 3.5" floppy cost you $2 bucks chuck!

Using USB seems a lot less wasteful nowadays, since they can be re-used many times.

i have done a floppy disc install of freebsd before; i wouldn't recommend it

In fact... darwin: a netbooted install would be even less resource-intensive.

mason: like, i haven't burned a cd or dvd for like 10 yaers

I burned one a year or two ago for a foolish SuperMicro firmware update.

Ah, he left, just when I'd found the pxeboot section of the handbook.

pxe how primitive, why not ipxe

Title: Index of /

rennj: It seems dangerously modern. I'm still used to arp/rarp/tftp

no doubt

it is moderm

it is modern

Title: boot.rackspace.com/freebsd.ipxe at master · rackerlabs/boot.rackspace.com · GitHub

old

freshports.org/net/ipxe hmm thats modern

Title: FreshPorts -- net/ipxe: Open source network boot firmware

Last Update: 2022-09-07 21:58:51

solaris jumpstart server ftw..course you had to have it on like local lan segment..

rarp/arp past router most likely

all i want it to know how to power on 72U rack and bring up 72boxen with as minimal headache as possible, maas.io foobar

Title: MAAS | Metal as a Service

tidalscale.com even better and supposedly they use freebsd/bhyve

Title: TidalScale – Data Center Reliability, Availability, and Serviceability (RAS)

Title: Software definer wants you to befriend the 'BFC', do a bit of 'reverse virtualization' • The Register

Instead of running multiple virtual machines in a single physical server it creates a single virtual machine made up from multiple physical servers and their resources linked with a 10GbitE network.

hmm 0 down...

yahoo.com/now/tidalscale-announces-…ity-software-defined-130000723.html sexy

Title: TidalScale Announces Availability of Software-Defined Server Technology in AWS Marketplace

mason: you're very welcome

hi all

very funny, it's already the third "zfs replication" tool that I'm evaluating which doesn't guaranteed atomicity across snapshots

a restore of a PostgreSQL installation could be even more "funny" if WAL are stored on a separate dataset (:

anyone try tidalscale.com/?

rennj where you find out tidalscale uses fbsd/bhyve?

Title: TidalScale and inverted server virtualization – Blocks and Files

but i recall reading it years ago

perhaps was in youtube video

ever use it? it actually work?

polyex: they claim to have some big customers, so, who knows?? maybe!?

pricing is secret so it must work !!

love when pricing is secret

polyex, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSSI not a new concept

Title: OpenSSI - Wikipedia

back to those sweet tandem nonstop systems

wow based on linux

shoulda used freebsd

it was ported to linux

was on unixware/sco

and hp killed it most likely..cause it seems dead

FT systems are *hard*. And expensive because of that. I used to work on one, some while back (not Tandem)

that was mine

and a couple of predecessors

" When SCO stopped selling NonStop Clusters, the former Locus team, now working for Compaq (which had acquired Tandem in the interim), ported the NonStop Clusters code to Linux and released it as open source." that's a lot of complicated words in one sentence

I've got a Freebsd 12.3 stable system with an i3-8100 using onboard video. It has both a full sized display port (DP) and HDMI ports for video display. On other OSes such as Linux HDMI works fine but on Freebsd only DP displays. I get a no signal when I attempt to use HDMI on Freebsd 12.3 until I switch to a DP cable and a temporary monitor. Is there some what to get HDMI working?

I meant, is there some way I can get the HDMI display working? Sadly the monitor I need doesn't have a display port input and finding a DP to HDMI cable that actually works if challenging...

jgh what's FT?

Delemas: if you're using Xorg, you can try arandr (GUI for xrandr)

I so can't type today... That should have been is challenging. No I'm talking about the basic text console not displaying. X is N/A.

Delemas: a verified good DP-to-HDMI adaptor is the Dell thing, supports 4K@60 too iirc dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-adapter-di…i-20-4k/apd/492-bbxu/pc-accessories

Title: Dell Adapter - DisplayPort to HDMI 2.0 (4K) | Dell USA

I have one

polyex: Fault-Tolerant. Bits of hardware can break, but the system carries on running... and can accept replacements

ty

hmm well that's one solution if I can't solve the software issue. Is there no way to coax Freebsd to use HDMI for text console?

am afraid I have never dealt with this myself, so hopefully someone more knowledgeable will respond

text console as VGA text? it is set up by BIOS.

so, if the BIOS setup does not help...

tsoome_: I have not seen a BIOS that would let you choose onboard video output between HDMI and DP so far, usually the GPU determines where to send video

and it seems BIOS output goes to the right output

unless Delemas forgot to mention that there is no signal over HDMI even in BIOS

That's a good point. I haven't tried the BIOS with HDMI recently. I will double check the next time I can bring the system down, likely this evening. I know text consoles in Linux worked on HDMI. I moved from a Linux VM host running a freedbsd VM to directly running it on the hardware hence the current difficulties.

I'm fairly confident the BIOS works over HDMI but let's check to be sure...

windows and linux now bringing rust in. will freebsd fall even more behind?

polyex, what do you mean 'fall even more behind'? The reason I left Linux is that it started introducing Rust and shit

Adopting fads isn't necessarily the same thing as moving forward.

popular == fad? lol

rust is objectively a better lang that makes better software

polyex, I disagree.

im starting to learn it now and it's obvious

I got a big list of reasons

main 2?

Use it for a few years and see if it's still obvious.

polyex, then it's obvious you know nothing about programming/hacking lol

polyex, there is no main 2

k so gimme a couple

is there some pastebin? I don't want to get kicked in my hole for "spamming"

cat file.txt | nc termbin.com 9999

Anyway, being able to generate better software isn't a shoe-in for anything. If it was we'd all be writing in Lisp and Erlang.

PredatorONormies?

Old DP to HDMI cable I had ended up working. Thanks for the help.

things like 'oom-killer' and 'systemd' make me think that linux is falling behind.

what is going on? how you're all doing?

ya me too but you dont have to run those

polyex,

when fbsd decided to ignore desktop and be a "server OS" i knew it was bad. that was true. learning rust, im telling you rn, freebsd will be left behind again and this time terminally. freebsd finally dead? no, but effectively yes. it's already fringe

Not being popular != being dead

I'm a gentoo linux user and am curios about FreeBSD myself

If anything is popular - it's actually shit. That's unfortunately how many things work in life

and remember most people are volenteers, they're going to work on what thy want to work on

Because many people don't give enough shit to investigate - so they are given shit software and other shit

they wouldn't know a difference because they don't caer

Does anyone know how to get the rtw89 wifi driver to work on FreeBSD?

Tikosh: it's not in a released version of freebsd, yet

You should switch to current and hope for the best

Title: WiFi/Rtw89 - FreeBSD Wiki

Yeah - I think I regret not using current.. I'm on the fucking OpenZFS FILESYSTEM

(not sure if that is bulletproof)

PredatorONormies: i've used current for years; why do you regret not being on current? do you have a realtek wifi card too?

Nope

I'm guessing updates

I miss my Arch GNU/Linux era

on OpenZFS

A pain worth the glory

what updates are you trying to receive?

is there a way for a FreeBSD novice to get involved, even thought he is a gnu/linux simp?

rtprio, good quesiton - I wouldn't know

By the way do ports get updated on current?

I'd like if one could update ports

And then compile again

ports are always updated if you just track them via git

PredatorONormies: no ports are updated continously.

Tikosh: you would need to run current and enable the driver in the build.

steew, 0.o but I don't see a git repostiory in /usr/ports

only a .gitgnore

The FreeBSD Ports Collection is maintained in several branches, which

differ mostly by versions of software provided: the head branch contains

all the latest changes, while the quarterly branches only provide

critical fixes. The head branch can be installed or updated from the

Subversion repository located at:

svn.FreeBSD.org/ports/head

Title: ports - Revision 569609: /head

This?

PredatorONormies: you would need to remove it and fetch it fresh; forums.freebsd.org/threads/guide-us…orts-source-and-documentation.79721

Title: [Guide] Using Git to manage ports, source and documentation. | The FreeBSD Forums

if you enabled the ports checkbox in the installer gui then they are just tracked with portsnap

you should remove that directory and git clone the ports tree there

could one use svn instead of Git, like the manual is recommending (I guess)?

as far as Im concerned, svn has been deprecated in favour of git

no, don't use subversion; wiki.freebsd.org/Ports/GitQuickStart

Title: Ports/GitQuickStart - FreeBSD Wiki

Lol really?

Git is bloated hell

and subversion is not very good

One needs to go to Git school to learn it

not if you install git-tiny

there's also `gitup`

meh

are ports like similar to git? and that support on all latest BSDs?

Anyways - thanks

ports are text files that tell the system how to build packages

oh! like similar to like gentoo then

and ports are only for freebsd; other bsds have their own schemes

okay

I currently run Gentoo and curious about FreeBSD

i just downloaded 13.1

Buy another computer

XD

hahahahahahah yea

What? That's what I do

Computers are easy

I run a L14 thinkpad

for testing

Lol IME

Yeah, I also used to run gentoo, migrated to freebsd and started building everything from ports (with Synth). I got tired and now i just use binaries

I want to compile shit myself more (but dont?)

Because I believe that's how computers are supposed to work

PredatorONormies: you do you, man

0 binaries

Okay

steew, okay. is there a wiki that points to ports? i'm curious

Title: The FreeBSD Project

PredatorONormies, Try it out. I konw gentoo is fun.

Somewhere on there I think

alright

Tikosh, Yeah - I heard

Title: Chapter 4. Installing Applications: Packages and Ports | FreeBSD Documentation Portal

I guess I don't feel comfortable about it yet..-

I'll do admit. I run a binary of firefox on my gentoo build

I got used to comfort again (bad)

I could delete Firefox right now

PredatorONormies, It's good to pick your battles

It's tempting

Yeah

I gotta xmonad.hs file that i can wgetpaste to share. wanna see it?

I think you should redirect this to #freebsd-social or start a direct message

understood

i moved from gentoo to freebsd. my systemd free low maintenance dream has come true.

zfs on gentoo was dodgy and fragile as hell

so tyty freebsd =]

:)

> <Demosthenex> zfs on gentoo was dodgy and fragile as hell < I did it on Arch GNU/Linux - half the documentation didn't work

Either that or I was seriously demented XD

Demosthenex, i bet. I do admit I run systemd on my gentoo build, 'cause i want to use DisplayLink

I was SURE that the docs got changed like a day after I successfully got it installed (but without encryption)

Wtf is DisplayLink?

i was booting root on zfs on gentoo, so i could do portage updates in snapshots. was a shitstorm. i had pages of notes on updating, and it consistently broke. now i "bectl -a $date ; bectl chroot $date ; freebsd update ; bectl activate $date ; reboot"

PredatorONormies, it is a driver that enables multi-monitors through usb

no idea why systemd would be required for usb monitors

i used to run 3

bectl?

Demosthenex, me either

boot environment controller

lol

USB monitors? whoah

it's zfs root management

Demosthenex, lol I never used anything alike it

and it's all built-in as a first class feature in freebsd.

The utmost I used was/is sanoid for snapshot management

PredatorONormies, well, I use a plugable usb dock that connect to usb type c

IT IS WHAT

heck, i setup my laptop on a 1tb hdd w/ zfs, and once i was happy, i threw it in another computer booted from usb, and the zfs sent my whole drive to my laptop with the SSD installed. seamless migration

PredatorONormies: I still use Subversion. It's fine. Most of the software we use today was developed using Subversion or Git.

i can zfs send my whole laptop, OS and data, to my fileserver. if i have to restore my drive, i boot usb, and zfs recv. restored

Demosthenex, i got a 2tb nvme ssd with 32 gb of ram 'cause i'm crazy

running on a ryzen 3 pro cpu

all those threads are great for gentoo

so, compile for days instead of weeks?

freebsd binaries for core OS is perfect.

no, just hours

Demosthenex, to install a new system takes me 4 hours

even most pkgs i don't bother with compiling, and i love that /usr/local is for all the addons.

Demosthenex, yea. I use a firefox binary on mines

when i moved from gentoo to freebsd, i had fewer issues than last time i distro hopped from ubuntu to gentoo.

> <Demosthenex> heck, i setup my laptop on a 1tb hdd w/ zfs, and once i was happy, i threw it in another computer booted from usb, and the zfs sent my whole drive to my laptop with the SSD installed. seamless migration < You're shitting me

it was nearly seamless.

So basically a drive clone?

PredatorONormies: yep

o.o

noice

I guess

not sure

it even kept all my 15 minute/hourly/daily snapshots

That might come in-handy,but not for me, I guess

To get my gentoo build to compile package faster, I put in a line on my make.conf with EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPS= -j8 -l8

using all 8 threads

but setting that up, you need some good amount of ram

just in case

1G of RAM is enough

2G of RAM plenty

4GB asta lavista

8GB too much

16GB you're wasting money

PredatorONormies, i run 32gb 'cause I'm crazy

32GB you're wasting hardware

yes, you are

I got so much RAM I don't know what do with it

I got so much CPU I don't know what do with it

I got so much GPU I don't know what do with it

Lol sorry for spam

PredatorONormies, thats okay, just build your OS from source

of course, you don't need 32 gb of ram to build from source

I kind-of want to

But also - I'd rather do other things

PredatorONormies, you do you man

i understand

Nice chat

PredatorONormies, absouletly! glad to chat with you guys and dudettes

:)

> dudettes < YO STEALING MA JOKU!

How does one prefer their cornflakes? with, or without the sugar

wait, that is a user!?!?!?!

i meant ladies and gents

i mean you all

I am no gentleman

i'm happy i have yet to find a good reason to compile any part of core freebsd.

Nor a lady

the only pkg i compile is emacs, to disable -gtk

i shouldn't have to compile from scratch to have a minimal secure os.

Demosthenex, it's always a good reason to compile your software if you can .. and you learn stuff, maybe

Demosthenex, you run qt?

lol

Tikosh: no. emacs has a bug where it crashes with x11 forwarding in gtk. so i revert to the base x11 toolkit (lucid?)

Demosthenex, oh. okay. i did not knew that. when I do use emacs, i run Doom.

Domm emacs, for clarification

not the game

PredatorONormies: i've done linux from scratch, i coded something like portage before i found gentoo, i ran gentoo for a decade, i have experience on all major linux distros, and i now run freebsd for my daily driver.

so i know all about hand compiling. thats why i avoid it.

Nice

Demosthenex, okay. I never used LFS and closest I got is gentoo

Oh XD

I do not

of course, LFS does NOT compart to gentoo

I guess to each their own, but I like the idea of not trusting the binary :/

LFS is for gigachads

PredatorONormies, yea

I am the fitest gentoo user out there. I healthy 600 pounds and daily walks of 2 minutes a day

LFS?

LFS means Linux from scratch

oh

but in all seriousness. I do need to lose allot of weight

BFS is for wtfchads

xD

hahahahahahha

BSD from scratch

nixe

nece

nice.

if LFS users are Gigachads, then Bfs users are seraphins

get it?

nixi

seraphines?

Not really

what are those

seraphims are a type of angel

or i gues, daemon

look up seraphims

o.o

daemon

lol

good joke

hahahaha thanks

gotta go have code

seraphims are scary looking

so, consider using the #freebsd-social channel for idle chatter ;]

o.o

Yeah

but if you have freebsd questions from a gentoo perspective, ask away

got you.

like i said, i converted and it's been fantastic.

alright. wish me luck install FreeBSD!

thanks so much for the help!

anyone know who runs forums.freebsd.org? i can't access it from my home IP, but can from elsewhere. it seems like i'm blocked for some reason

wcarson: forum-admins@ cf. freebsd.org/administration/#t-forum-admins

Title: FreeBSD Project Administration and Management | The FreeBSD Project

ah cool, thank you. e-mail sent

good evening quick question is there a mingw-w64 package for freebsd ?

doesn't appear so

can someone explain to me what the difference is between hwaddr and ether?

there's no mention of hwaddr in ifconfig(8)

MAC address

both, there's no difference

Not that it matters, im resigned to just use bhyve now, but anyone know why this happens?

dclau: I got some ifconfig pastes that have both

If the interface uses the factory-set MAC, only ether. Otherwise, both. docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/…networking/#_configuration_examples example 3 is my laptop, and ifconfig re0 has "ether b8:ee:65:5b:32:59" and "hwaddr 28:d2:44:85:f2:03" lines.

Title: Chapter 32. Advanced Networking | FreeBSD Documentation Portal

V_PauAmma_V: i reckon the interface is reachable on both, but which one does the interface communicate with, by default?

With falover mode, first in the list. So re0 ethernet here.

s/falover/failover/

V_PauAmma_V: sorry, i was talking about mac addresses (hwaddr vs ether)

I think only ether then? Not sure.

aye.

how can i tell if an interface is "physical" (including virtio in this definition)

it seems to be the one that doesn't belong to any groups.

has hw addr, media type saying something sensible, and has no groups: is physical ✅

i gotta restart local_unbound pretty often to get dns resolution working again. how can i debug it?

polyex: caching issue, or something else? what logging have you enabled to figure it out?

what would a caching issue look like? what logging options do i have?

Guess not