so im trying to install bsd15 on a second hdd zfs. the other hdd has bsd14 zfs. both use geli. after the install on the second hdd, when the system boots, it asks for the password for the old system, then i hit enter x3 to skip it, then it asks for the pass for new system. i enter the pass

then bsd attempts to boot, however it then asks the password for the older system again

i miss it 3 times

then freebsd says: ERROR: cannot open /boot/lua/loader.lua: no such file or directory.

what is the problem ?

i tried to re-install the OS 3x on the second drive

hernan604: Why such a complicated setup?

Sounds like multiple rc/devd scripts are running which scan for geli/boot partitions, ergo you are prompted several times.

You could use a keyfile, I guess.

#j #openbsd

you saw nothing

Eh. BSD is a community onto itself. However if that was #j #linux you'd be an outcast.

Oh yeah, I gave up Linux... Greener pastures as they say

Appreciate the BSDs more, they have come a long way but using them still give a bit of nostalgia

I'm talking to you from an OpenBSD laptop that is using (Free|HardenedBSD) over HTTP for IRC

Cool

Looking to install OpenBSD on an old Laptop

**Desktop

coffee not cycling yet

It works great. My only complaint is that when I lose power, a reboot usually throws me into fsck, which proceeds fine, you get use to it, otherwise i love it

Yeah, there seems to be quirks with FreeBSD that I appreciate

Also, its great for desktop use. Firefox + Chromium are patched on top of unveil and pledge.

Just means something to tinker with which is a-ok

Gotcha

Chromium is probably the better option but I use firefox.

I'd like to get the backlighting on my laptop keyboard to work, that sounds like something worth doing

The most common known on OpenBSD is probably a thinkpad. Everything in mine works except WiFi and bluetooth (by design).

I go with librewolf because it comes packaged with ad-block already

No librewolf package on OpenBSD

Oh damn

ungoogled-chromium

good alternative, with extensions

I could go for that, used it before

Yeah, thinkpads seem to be the work horse of the laptop world...

Yeah theyre okay I guess. Probably better in the past. Mine is slowly falling apart.

Actually had a link saved of a cool company that makes laptops for unix, man, they look really nice

Framework probably?

'Framework 13 Pro'

There are a bunch of them; system76 and slimbook, for example. The latter are Chinese OEMs mobos, but I have a few and can mostly recommend them.

Based on second hand knowledge of a person I know who has a framework I would not recommend it

YMMV with firmware for a few of the peripherals with BSD.

Oh really? Damn

Seems to be very poor quality

The only modern approximation of thinkpads are panasonic toughbooks IME. They're expensive, though.

I guess that's just how computers are these days. When I used Mac, the keyboard would constantly break.

framework don't officially support freebsd, and iirc someone ran into some issues with their UEFI loader recently... the foundation is supposed to be working with them on improving it though

Thinkpads seem to be a solid choice, just wish they still had battery replacements

Tower PC + plus any cheap laptop.

Better off getting an old refurb thinkpad.

Modern thinkpads aren't so great.

I've been using code-server for the past year or so. It's amazing. It can turn a headless server into a dev environment.

Yeah, going to have 2 thinkpads soon... T480 T490

boru: yeah, scanning the price and they seem to be fairly pricey for what is offered hardware-wise...

IIRC, those are the last gen of the lenovo thinkpads before the quality fell off a cliff.

In my countries dying currency, anyways

Those models are legendary

Yeah, some people try to milk you on ebay for old thinkpads.

That's what I was told and they are cheap, cheap online

ibm milk

Yeah, and you can still get pin compatible CPUs, SODIMMs and batteries for them.

I refurbed a t450s recently

i have touch thinkpad in progress of checks

got it for fun

CPU from a guy in Russia, SODIMMs from a guy in Germany, large capacity battery from China.

Probably a racket. No other way to explain the loss of quality.

it would be nice if we had better support for apple's arm64 laptops... i think openbsd is better there

Are the apple arm64s aarch64? If so, the reference design should be good enough, no?

Oh really? I will have to look around... The only place that I could find was amazon for batteries and then the reviewers were saying "I spent x amount on a battery that only lasts 30 minutes"

I bought my battery on amazon. I get ~12h out of it.

I know depending on the battery you can freeze them to get more life out of them... Not the Lithium, don't do that with those

boru: the issue isn't the cpu but the other hardware (ssd, ethernet, and iirc there's something weird about how the pcie bridge works)

Cell quality is very variable.

ivy: ah.

boru: I will pull the trigger then, battery on my T490 is only about 3 hours

I'd recommend the fat battery with the extra cells if you can put up with the added weight/bulk.

Weight is no issue, will keep that in mind

Also: there was a Chinese guy in Switzerland who fabbed a modern mobo replacement for the T400 series. Not sure if he did another batch yet.

With wifi7, 10g ethernet, modern CPU socket, m2 and lots of ram.

HDMI out, as well.

Best of both worlds: modern hardware, indestructible thinkpad chassis.

Yep, that sounds like a good little gig, charge a premium for the hardcores

Wasn't that expensive, in fact.

And a fraction of a panasonic toughbook.

Shenzen is suppose to be electronic paradise

Even better

It is. Tokyo, also.

Maybe one day

Tokyo for consumer hardware and RF stuff especially.

Tokyo is probably outside my price bracket

I'd recommend it at least once in your lifetime.

For sure. Japan is amazing.

The Akihabara "Electric Town" is worth it alone.

4 ham radio shops within walking distance of each other.

Well, I'd go primarily to experience the culture.

Been getting a lot of travel videos in my algorithm about Japan... Seems like a great place in all honesty

It has practically no crime

It has bad parts, as well, much like everywhere.

Food seems pretty decent too, lots of mom and pop shops

Most of my algo is food

Depends who you ask. My main gripe is the food.

So restaurant visits with an old dude cooking up katsu

Sure, and there has been some mass-casuality events, but generally speaking it seems tranquil, peaceful and safe

Yeah, the people are great in Tokyo. They don't really like tourists in Kyoto or Osaka though.

Can't say I blame them.

But more on topic, I'd definitely recommend Akihabara if you're looking for high quality and cheap hardware.

Mario cart tourists esp

I should see if it's worth to import, thanks for the tip

Yeah, you certainly need to have social awareness there. Respect is very important.

Well, one bonus to visiting and buying there: you don't pay tax, and you might "miss" paying the tax at the airport on the way back.

don't pay tax?!

In your home country, I mean. Stuff there is already very cheap, but the added benefit of tax free makes it very appealing.

Yeah.

How's that possible

Wow

I picked up a high spec HF radio for less than a third of the price it costs here.

You don't have to pay tax as a tourist provided you can prove it's for export out of the country.

Thats weird

They might check you at the airport, but you just show your receipts.

You're supposed to pay import duty when you land in your home country, but these things happen.

In Brazil they have an import tax

It makes "desirable" products totally unaffordable

They do almost everywhere. Only a few small entities don't have import taxes.

I dunno, I'm from Ireland and we didn't have any kind of similar tax, the difference is hundreds of dollars

I'm also from Ireland. You're supposed to declare your duty free purchases at customs.

Wherein anything which isn't exempt, must have duty paid.

Right, but I mean, the tax implies to all imports. Even if you buy something on apple.com, when it arrives at customs, a huge custom tax is applied, it could be nearly equal to the price

But sometimes you forget to do that, or there's no one at customs. Oh dear, and all that.

IANAL: trust but verify.

Yeah, but buying online versus what you carry are also different things in Ireland. If you buy online, duty is included with the purchase if it's outside the EU, or will be billed to you buy the carrier etc.

Err, by the carrier, rather.

If it's fullfilled within the EU, no duty.

It's a blessing

I never even realized

Trumpian tax

TL;DR -- go to Japan and buy stuff and (definitely do not) break the law and avoid paying the import duty.

Tax is great. Everyone loves taxes. Pay your taxes!

You could also become a citizen of Vanuatu, and never pay tax on anything, including your income, ever again.

Yes, they are totally not theft and totally not taken by force

Independent dissident thought detected! Off to the re-education camp with you, citizen!

Or just become a billionaire.

Well, tax avoidance (as opposed to evading) is legal, but yes, you need to be a billionaire to make it worthwhile. Probably just easier to become a citzen of Vanuatu.

Middle eastern states historically did not have income tax too, nor VAT, or any of it

oh boy

I like this topic

IIRC, the local religions forbid it, but also include things like interest, and investment and so on.

So, mixed bag.

boru: if you agree with people giving up a portion of their income to help others, then please endorse charity, not an oppressive government expropriating your assets

the former is voluntary...

the latter is oppression

And Europe is by far the worst for such things, the reason you pay so much at the pump for your petrol is because half of it is duties

aka tax

I am not supporting anything here, fwiw. Just pointing out a few facts.

Tax deductions by giving to charity are not selfless.

They're specifically for tax avoidance.

donating to charity is never selfless

we help others because it makes us feel good

there is a selfish side to every action

I support FreeBSD, but I benefit from doing so too

But anyway, sorry to fling the channel off into the weeds there.

already done xD

#freebsd-social

I'm digging it, honestly... But -social would be the place

I'm in #freebsd-antisocial

lol

Found a japanese site with good refurbished prices

Even has some nice Dell Latitudes

Just bear in mind that you'll need to get another charger. Japan is 110V

Yeah, I figured that

It's pretty cool that we can build FreeBSD binaries and distribute them via GitHub actions.

People are still using GH?! Good lord.

For this, it is hard to beat it

oh right are people prepping for AsiaBSDCon?

or what?

There is one in North America somewhere soon too

Check it out github.com/vmactions

amencoda: yeah BSDCan

Dell Latitude 5300 256SSD 8gigs 113 dollars

Yes, I will be tuning into one of the two if I am around

Would be curious to watch at leas

Been looking at raspberrypi setups, they are pretty fascinating

powerful little units, can do quite a bit

vkarlsen: im trying to install freebsd on a second hdd, then configure it (maybe copy something from the first hdd if i missed), and then format the first/old hdd

but its not allowing me to boot into this new install

not sure why

i would disconnect the first drive until you're satisfied with the result

hernan604: check bios settings for drive priority

Well, was going to get out and do some hiking but with 60km winds I think it will be an inside day

"Great" to see the meme about FreeBSD people not using FreeBSD on their daily machines still holds phoronix.com/news/FreeBSD-On-Laptop-Driver

yeah... :(

lts: The FreeBSD Foundation is doing ongoing work on this, and I can't but believe that Deb's experiences will help drive some effort in various good directions.

Not to mention that there has already been much improvement. Using a FreeBSD 15.0 laptop as my daily driver here.

I cringe whenever someone appears and they want to start with FreeBSD on the laptop. It's a superior operating system for everything else. On the laptop it is still trying to get all of the nooks and crannies smoothed out.

It's getting closer and closer.

It's kind'a like when someone thinks, I want to look to cook. I will start making a 17 layer dessert cake for a state dinner as my very first thing I am going to try to do. Or anything else that you generally would consider to be top chef difficulty.

"everything else"

on my desktop it doesn't even work

it works better on my laptop, than on my desktop. I use linux on my laptop for the cell modem.

That's an example. I have zero computer systems with a cell modem. So for me I would never notice that driver being a problem.

Still, the one person I'd expect to daily drive FreeBSD would be someone who has been the FreeBSD Executive Director for 20 years. Imagine Linus Torvalds running Windows, or Theo de Raadt running FreeBSD

Agreed. It's not a good look.

Mobile hardware is just intrinsically different in that there are many special needs that don't exist on anything else.

Graphics drivers. Suspend-Resume. Suspend-Resume of the Graphics driver. Battery management. Cell modems. Cameras. Microphones. And a long list of other devices that are expected to work on mobile devices. None of that is needed on a rack server or even on a regular desktop like I am using right now (runing FreeBSD on my desktop).

desktops use suspend-resume also sometimes

Sure. Someone might do it. But I have never suspended a desktop of mine. Meanwhile I suspend-resume my laptop many times a day.

My desktop grew the ability and will to suspend all of a sudden. That's when I ripped KDE out with the roots.

My desktop also does not have a camera-microphone. If I need to video conference I use the laptop (or tablet). The rest of the time my laptop has tape firmly affixed over the camera.

Modern ryzens don't idle very gracefully so I prefer to suspend them for the night and when away from home

I have yet to get suspend-resume of either the Intel graphics or the Radeon graphics to resume for me. It wakes up. But the graphics is a black screen. I have never gotten that to work on a laptop yet. I tried on 12, 13, and 14. It's in my task list to try it on 15 because I hear things are better on 15 for this specifically.

this thinkpad does okay in the suspend/resume department

sorry, lenovo x1

I mostly only use Thinkpads because they mostly Just Work. The specific machine I had used was a Thinkpad x201. But recently I ebay'd a Thinkpad T480 specifically to dedicate to testing FreeBSD on the laptop. I have been lacking the time to dedicate to working on it though.

Can't help thinking perhaps FreeBSD would be much better on the laptop/desktop if the people behind FreeBSD would have run FreeBSD for the last 20 years

it's a self-feeding spiral

freebsd is too poor to desktop - freebsd desktoppers stop desktopping freebsd - freebsd gets worse to desktop

I disagree that it is ultimately important that every important OS must run on a laptop. Or must run on a tablet. Or must run on a phone. Those are ever more specialized.

FreeBSD is superior on backroom servers. Clearly that has been the sweet spot. I would not avoid running FreeBSD on a storage array for example just because it does not run on my laptop or tablet.

At this point I'm not 100% sure people behind FreeBSD run FreeBSD on servers either

It's it okay that FreeBSD is used on network servers and storage arrays and database servers all of the rest but not great on the laptop? Why must everything come down to how well it runs on a laptop?

Sorry. *Is it okay that...

flow-on effects from optimizing for laptops onto servers with similar architectures?

power consumption decrements for instance

Most of the people behind FreeBSD use it on servers. That's the main developer area.

Hi all, I am trying to install FreeBSD on a Chromebook that I installed Linux on years ago. It has Libreboot. When I try to boot, I get to the prompt saying: Mounting from ufs:/dev/ufs/FreeBSD_Install failed with error 19, then it goes to mountroot>

I haven't seen this error on the install ever and not sure how to proceed.

farhan: probably libreboot not presenting the device tree properly or FreeBSD not being able to read it. libreboo+ any os is a fairly specific use case

I hope you're wrong...

I had GalliumOS on it, but its no longer supported.

I hate to throw away hardware that works perfectly fine.

maybe...NetBSD will work? OpenBSD doesn't have bluetooth (IIRC)

try any OS you can, but expect fireworks

qt-webengine taking 21hrs so far -j20 lol

qt6 that is

a k3b dependency

Less heavyweight, browser?

no

bdvd writing suite

i didnt expect qt6-webengine to be a k3b dependency

qt6-webengine depends on chromium and that takes ages to build

Yeah, the chromium's are a biggie

so yes browser in that sense

I used ungoogled-chromium most of the time, and it takes me days for that build. My builder doesn't have a larger nubmer of cpu's though, and I'm not usually in a rush.

nor am i what im looking at is the wattage

wattage + duration

so far its cost (converted into USD) about $1.80 for that one package

cost of what?

electricity

oh wow

but think how much it would cost to buy the package on a CD

I second that. Oh wow!

Will Chromium fit on a CDROM size wise?

excluding chromium a build for my desktop takes about 4hrs maybe5 thats with electron39 too

this one thing has added 22hrs now and counting

i think it'd fit on a cd

apparently Chrome now includes a 4GB AI model, so it might not. although perhaps it downloads that in the background

it's academic though cos one has to build it frequently yo avoid vulns

yeah i dont run chromium based browsers

thats whats a tad galling about it lol

the build log shows it's 86% done so ill let it run

whats made it expensive isnt the elec used, it's the unit cost which has tripled over the last few years

might be more than tripled

It's the sunk cost fallacy! Haha!

It's been running for 22 hours. If that is really 85% then it should finish by 26 hours if it continues linearly. Seems a shame not to let it finish and know if the time prediction is linear or not.

itd be funny if it fails in pkg phase lol

ivy: if a thing depends on chromium, does it also get the ai model

f451: i have absolutely no idea - actually i don't know if Chromium even includes it, or it's a Chrome(TM) thing

its very very cheeky isnt it

like taking a leaf out of the cryptominers book