I would of thought my WIFI card on a skylake laptop would work out of the box that was made in 2016 on Freebsd 14.0

but nope think again

Who's excited for the event tomorrow with Steve Bourne?

Who's excited for the event tomorrow with Steve Bourne? what event?

@brian|lfs - see nycbug.org - has some notes about tomorrow's meeting, and they do usually stream these unless they run into some kind of technical issue

cool where do they post the stream links at this site looks very dated?

nevermind I'm blind I see where it is

polarian: wireguard is not really a vpn, just an encrypted tunnel with authentication. very nice until you need to actually route packets.

When I installed 15.0 I selected package based install, is there a link to a good way to compile and install your own kernel without building the whole system?

crb: the most basic steps would be something like; cp /usr/src/sys/amd/conf/GENERIC /usr/src/sys/amd/conf/MYKERNEL ; vi /usr/src/sys/amd/conf/MYKERNEL ; cd /usr/src ; make buildkernel KERNCONF=MYKERNEL ; make installkernel KERNCONF=MYKERNEL - this is a good starting point for reading more docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/kernelconfig

That works well for not package based installs but I don't think it's right for packbased installs

oh my bad

idk what you mean by 'package based' tbh

when you do an install, starting with 15.0 the system can either be installed as it would be traditionally: the installer just untars a bunch of tarballs for base and etc and usr etcetera OR you can ask for the system to be installed from pacakges. I don't know the granularity but for instance, ls, sh, cat, sort .... are all individual packages

This allows you to pick and choose what things you want installed. If it's a stripped down DNS system maybe you don't install any mail handler, you don't install sort

ah I see. well building your own kernel should still be fine with that

crb: unfortunatly we don't currently have a way to build only a subset of the package repo

[*] modulo build options that remove things; you need a buildworld + buildkernel with an option set that matches what you want to use for update-packages

kevans_: its so common to build your own kernel, I wish this was mentioned at install time as a downside. I'm not mad, I understand it's a free project I appreciate the efforts

oh this is news to me. I will have to do some reading :)

i'm not sure i'm convinced that the current setup is the final form, but I don't really know of any initiatives offhand to try to push the boundaries into allowing a build of, e.g., a world-only or kernel-only repo

kevans_: yep and I guess you don't really need me to point out the short comings. I'm sure you all know

crb: knowing that there's other demand is always a useful data point

hmm.. so you don't have a way to build a subset of the package repo... but there are minimal podman builds, right? it seems like there might be related tooling

scoobybejesus: no, the podman images are generated by building everything but only installing a subset of packages

ah, i see, thank you

several people have asked for a way to only build the kernel package, it's somewhat difficult because of how the packages are built, but i'd like to do it at some point

hi to all. Assuming that I wish to install a database inside a jail, I assume that this "space" will have the same space of FreeBSD machine, right? or not?

puf: if you mean disk space, it depends where you put the jail and what filesystems you mount inside it (if any). you could dedicate an entire disk to a jail if you wanted

puf: define "space"

ivy: interesting.. bdrewery I am just a noob trying to understand the concepts

also in a broad physical sense can anyone define "space"?

and why is the sky blue

that one can be answered

sure, any container use "space" in the main hard drive of the server..

space is what you buy at a space bar

puf: jails create namespaces, separate places, for disk, process, network. The minimum is separate process namespace. A separate disk space is like a chroot with what is needed in it

ivy: You worked on the 802.1q vlan bridge features, right?

FatalNIX: yes

I just wanted to thank you for getting that going. Ever since I moved to 15, I've migrated away from SR-IOV segmentation of VLANs and moved everything on my hypervisors to vlan filtering. It works spectacularly. Thank you!

+1 I'm moving to that this week

bdrewery: how about memory usage? or CPU usage? only uses what is needed?

puf: it defaults to full resource access

puf: rctl can be used to limit memory in the jail, and cpu, but cpuset is better for the jail cpu use if you want to limit that

puf: something like github.com/BastilleBSD/bastille makes managing jails much simpler

FatalNIX: good to hear :-) i've been disappointed by how long it's taking popular jail/vm managers to support it, but i've heard from a few people who are using it anyway

a lot of us roll our own jail handling

Yeah, I've read that it's still on the stack of todo lists or requests for various tools. I've moved almost every single one of my services to jails away from VMs though, and some of my services are just routed with L3 and don't need VLANs...

so if I wish to use many jails, "they will fight" for resources, if I don't define the limits.

checking

I have yet to find a problem with a bunch of jails but I also have 40 threads and 304GB of RAM on my server to play with too...

Maybe I just haven't hit the ceiling yet.

puf: yea, rctl helps with that

as part of that work i removed both cases where packet forwarding in bridge requires traversing the entire member list, so it *should* be fairly scalable now. but you should set member_ifaddrs=0 to get both fixes

(it's still slower than it should be... it just scales better, while stil being quite slow)

the fib code is still kind of bad though :-/

well, same as multiple processes would, so as you run it, it doesn't really matter if its directly on the host or in a jail

ivy: Oh so it's just not me? I mistakenly complained the other day that fibs can't be tied to interfaces and found out I was wrong. So now, I just wish I could name them. It would be really cool if I could have BGP VPN / EVPN too... Without having to use a bunch of FRR instances...

oh, i mean the bridge fib, not the IP stack fib

Ah

RIBs, FIBS, and FIBS, oh my!

it stores each host address in a hash table, but it doesn't hash the vlan id, so if you have the same mac address (e.g., a router) on hundreds of vlans, it can turn into a pathological list walk

That sounds terrible considering if you are making SVIs they normally would have the same MAC.

(Something that always bothered me about SVI implementations)

well, if it's specifically the host address it's fine since that's handled before the fib lookup

but if you were bridging a bunch of VMs/jails on a host to an L3 switch and the switch is routing all the vlans, it could come up

So, I start a new FreeBSD installation, and here some doubts: "Selected System Components" options.. what are needed and why? Can you explain? there is a extra software .. what is that?

Like, I need the kernel debug symbols?

You can always install them later.

I don't really know what they do..

Debugging symbols are like tags and handles in the code designed so that you can run a debugger with them. It is useful for stepping execution flow and getting current program state etc.

If you aren't debugging FreeBSD as a developer then you don't need them.

No dev skills with me.. and the "extra software" ?

I will say that there isn't much there so by installing everything you are also not necessarily adding a bunch of disk space usage either.

puf: if you're talking about "optional", that's everything that's part of the system which isn't required for the system to work. that includes jails, iscsi, VMs (bhyve), etc etc. with pkgbase you can easily install that afterwards if you want to

Oh cool! well then I follow the recommendations.. is listing all packages that is fetching from internet.. nice!

more doubts: do you recommend using ports to install software or using pkg for that?

what you get from pkg is just precompiled ports, so it's basically the same thing. for a new user i would recommend using pkg rather than building yourself

pkg and if you want to change options, then use something like synth or poudriere to build isolated from the host system

nimaje: that confuses me: "build isolated from the hosts system", is like, we can build packages that will be globally accessible but they are not part of the system.. is that what you mean?

you wouldn't want want a partially updated system, so synth and poudriere first build packages inside a jail and build a package repo from that, additionally you don't polute the host system with build dependencies

ok, it looks like somwhere in time I can try to look to that if needed. I trying FreeBSD only to test Jails and learn a bit about them, because I wish to host some services in separated machines (jails) .. everything else I will just ignore.. mainly those advanced topics

puf: The idea is to keep your system as clean as possible. Building something isolated makes it not only easier to troubleshoot your system, but also your build system if something goes wrong.

Also, just learning plain jails is definitly worth it, but now I use bastille for managing jails I'm actually using.

sure, that was the recommendation that someone gave me few minutes ago.. I will test it for sure.. maintaining the traditional jails looks "scary", but I was willing to try.. having a dedicated tool to simplify the job.. is always welcome.

I did straight jails for some time. Honestly, I thought setting up bastille to be just as hard as setting up jails. The advantage came later once bastille was setup. It made setting up new jails easier.

i wish i could remember the bastille line i used to create my first jail

since now i need another one

for a thick jail its straight fwd, something like: 'cd /usr/src && DESTDIR=/tmp/jail make installworld && jail -c -m path=/tmp/jail -n test'. thats the essence of it, then you can configure params. I didnt test this, rough estimation.

zfs send tank/var/jail/base@stable | mbuffer | zfs receive tank/var/jail/somethingnew is my favourite way to stand up new jails, or at least seed their storage.

more questions.. in case of exposing this machine to the world, I should setup security recommendations before starting to setup jails right? While it make sense to me, I found an article that talks about the security levels, and I feel like maybe I should setup jails first and then apply security level to the main machine..

securelevels are of fairly dubious utility... to make them provide more than a false sense of security you need to make a lot of changes to the system

the article is from freebsdsoftware.org .. they list a big list of changes .. I was about to follow their recommenmdations

the link is this one: freebsdsoftware.org/blog/hardening-freebsd-server

importent bit from that page "Not affiliated with The FreeBSD Project.", but no idea who is behind it

does affiliation is important? I mean, by reading that article you can accept / validate or not, what is there..

but ok, I will follow first the handbook which talks about some topics that, that article don't

so usb stick, fat32lba partition type, with msdosfs (fat32), created on FreeBSD, works fine, move it to a OpenBSD device, load it up with some audio files, plug it into freebsd, 2 files show up in the filesystem but cant be read. Plug it into android, no issues, plug it into Linux no issues.

I have never seen this happen before

so I am clueless how to fix it

this usb stick was fucking formatted on freebsd... and then after another OS dumps data on it, now it cant be read!?!?!

oh I know why

nvm it makes sense

the two songs which freebsd cant see is because they contain special characters

it seems freebsd ignores them, and thus the files dont exist

\302 \200 \220 \231 are the codes

linux can handle them just fine

so can OpenBSD apparently, so er... FreeBSD is the only one?

don't exist?

with msdosfs?

not even PROGRA~1.mp3 ?

rtprio: ??

See if you can mount it as fat instead of vfat

its due to the codes above within the filename

vkarlsen: it is mounted as fat

If it is really true fat, the filenames should be max ABCDEFGH.ABC

hmmm

Also, can you get around it by globbing?

then it probably is vfat, but the mount_msdosfs handles the fat detention

as long as its not exfat (requires fuse)

and I dont see a way to alter this in mount_msdosfs(8)

Is one of your shells able to complete the filenames?

vkarlsen: hmmm

actually you're rigth the issue is likely the shell

I use st which cant render anything other than ASCII iirc

but the terminal emulator not being able to render it should in theory not stop the shell...

I guess theres one way to try

use the terminal and not a terminal emulator

What kind of exotic music are you listening to? :)

Or trying to listen to, I suppose

vkarlsen: its a rip, but it seems some of the song titles on the cd have weird characters in them

I already sanatised them when I realised its the symbols

and now it works just fine

btu I am curious if it was st which was the problem

but*

Honestly sounding like the terminal emulator being buggy. What were you using?

VVelox: st like I said above

oh wait no, it wouldnt be st

because I run st on the linux machine too

and that worked fine on linux

hello. I just created a Finnish-language channel at ##freebsd-fi for any potential freebsd-users in Finland

just for your information. let's see if there are any in our linux-oriented wonderland

I am feeling all proud of myself because I installed a new SSD into my server without breaking it. New to FreeBSD, uncertain still what to do at times, but hey, success.

joepublic: Congrats!

LapsangS: I am Finnish-American! Unfortunately, I don't speak Finnish/Suomi. :(