voy4g3r2: Advent of code for me was arrogant teens telling me how great they were and how shit I was (unfortunately still a teen at 19 :( )

this was back when I was 14/15

So I never really understood what AOC is for... other than toxicity

dch: does it current parallel if possible? eg: Say I have 2 codebases... I want them both compiled, two workers can compile one each, but then I want them linked, only one worker can then do this...

AOC is a series of coding exercises, it has nothing to do with alleged community toxicity apart from encouraging light rivalry

sounds like you need to find better friends and take it less seriously

duncan: light rivalry + teenager == bullying :)

and they weren't my friends in the first place... I don't have friends :)

(well not in person that is)

omg, grow up

hey hey that's just my AoC experience...

its why I stopped coding... not AoC specifically but the constant toxicity among developers... sysadmin folks were so much more friendly so I naturally felt more accepted messing with BSD :)

older developers for the most part are helpful and supportive... young ones are not fun...

considering older developers tell jokes about young people (under 25) and flame wars on ML/IRC/whatever... I assume this is a known trend

there was one made at EuroBSDCon 2024 for example.

Maybe AOC would be a good way for me to pick up C again... I abandoned it... wow... its almost been 4 years ago now... feels like just yesterday

the 14.2 betas/rc have been funny about bringing up a fresh/all options listed and unconfigured copy of rc.conf. not sure whats up with that.. I have to delete it all and paste my copy into it in order to have my configurations... ther's no merge /differences being showed..

It took me one day after 15.0-CURRENT started building packages for me to realize just how long it's been since I've used C/C++. I didn't think I'd be this rusty, buy good grief! With the LLVM 19 changes I am strugglin'!

the cool kids use rust now

aoc is a nice way to pick up a new language. like say, Elixir

i don't need aoc to learn a new language

sure but isn't there that element of shared experience? of everyone working on the same problem and then comparing your work with other people's work? the camaraderie and social feeling?

I've never used AoC before, but the idea doesn't sound bad. Provided the experience polarian had isn't the standard.

bricked my system again updating. maybe I start updating from source for a while.

mrelcee: What are you using to upgrade?

Err... Update.

freebsd-update

shoulda said upgrading

mrelcee: What are you upgrading from and to? (Sorry if you've already mentioned this. My buffer doesn't go that far back at the moment.)

Oh, wait. I see you're going to 14.2. Is that from 14.1 or from 13.x?

14.1-p6 to first 14.2-Beta2/3 and then RC1 tonight. I'll be damned if I try release next.

via freebsd-update anyway

Hrm. I'll run some tests after snapshots (just in case.)

But, I wouldn't be surprised if freebsd-update had a few issues. I *BELIEVE* freebsd-update is being deprecated in favor or pkgBase?

pretty vanilla freebsd zfs on root install

So, maybe there's more focus on that. You could always give that a shot if you wanna really beat yourself up. :)

Where do you think the issues are happening? Just during the config merge or with the base itself?

What are you seeing when you boot?

after it downloads the files, it brings up edits to rc.conf. it presents a vanilla rc.conf file as if I am supposed to verify changes.. i presume the one shipped with 14.2.

I went ahead deleted it all and pasted in a copy of my working copy\

Seems reasonable as long as the paste goes accordingly.

If you don't paste the /etc/rc.conf, does it work with the default rc.conf?

in my postmortem it is there exacly as is my 14.1-p6 boot env

Where does it seem to be bricking, exactly? Is it panicking during boot or is something just preventing it booting properly/normally due to a setting somewhere?

lots of errors get tossed processing rc.conf. end up booted stuck at single user, press enter for /bin/sh

If you enter single-user mode and edit /etc/rc.conf to the bare minimum, does it boot normally?

Can you paste your /etc/rc.conf and/or maybe a screenshot of the boot errors?

yeah I get root in single user.

Okay. And if you edit /etc/rc.conf in single-user mode to just simple defaults and then exit single-user mode, does it continue to boot?

no

What are the errors when you exit single-user mode after rc.conf is empty(-ish)?

i get a login prompt. it says pam error for any account I try logging into. root or user

Hrm. This kinda sounds like a pwd_mkdb didn't happen or something?

I suspect nothing much after my saving rc.conf happened

Well, the rc.conf merge/save would be during a currently logged in session. The login after a reboot would depend on the pwd database.

this system has been around a long time now. OS has been transplanted between 3 systems going back to 10.x. always updated via freebsd-update. the biggest change to get it working has been the ethernet device name in rc.conf.

If you log into single-user mode, what happens if you run "/usr/sbin/pwd_mkdb -p /etc/master.passwd" and then exit and try to log in again?

very vanilla as far as setup. zfs pool (zroot, storage pool). nfs server, samba server, vm-bhyve. kleep a couple user accounts for running cli tools there and managing the machine.

I cant answer that now. I used beadm to revert iot to the pre-14.2 install state and have it running again

Oh, good! Smart to have a roll-back plan.

If you can log/record your exact steps when you attempt to upgrade again (and it fails,) that would be helpful for filing a PR if this is reproducible.

I'll try to upgrade one of my 14.1-p6 systems tomorrow using freebsd-update when I get the chance.

not sure I am going to have the patience to try again for a whil. I have a year after 14.2 releases..

and yeah I really dont regret having beadm

might be interesting to try pkgbase if that is working now

One stupid question: can I use the DVD ISO image to do an old legacy MBR installation?

asarch: Do you want to be able to read DVD-IMAGE in a host running old MBR installation - or you want to install freebsd MBR using DVD image?

rtprio: yeah the rust guys are the ones who shat on me and eventually made me not want to touch programming again :P

I am rather partial to C, I just like the language, I think its cool

rust supporters shit on people for using C

I deduced that I couldn't ever be happy because people would never respect my choice of using C, and I don't like writing rust, so I thought fuck programming and went into sysadmin more :P

which is why I attended EuroBSDCon this year, and why I am even in the BSD circles, BSD people were kind and welcoming and I was happier :)

Anyways I guess I will give aoc a go this year... try to forget the painful past :P

If I already have the MBR FreeBSD partition, how could I create the disklabel partitions (eg: /, swap, /usr/home, etc)?: imgur.com/a/c65oSvk

ek: don't use me as the standard for everything, I hope for most peoples sake that my experiences are mine alone.

asarch: this might help: wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/disksetup.html#_the_old_standard_mbr

Thank you, thank you very much! :-)

polarian: Rust developers are like the vegans of programming; they shit on everyone who uses anything other than Rust.

remiliascarlet: amen to that!

that happens with webdev, every few years everyone jumps on the latest new thing and shits on people who just code, in native languages. Then a few more years go by and people realize teh bloat ruins everything, and the process repeats endlessly

Seen this happening in real time during the Ruby on Rails craze.

hah that one dissapeared extra fast

And then saw this again during the Node.js craze.

it was all the rage and then you never heard about it again

ugh node.js, aka the worst of both worlds

jquery

To be honest, its not that I hate rust, or people who write rust, but I have bigger issues in life than arguing about what programming language I prefer to write in... and I felt like I was wasting my time programming, hence I dropped it in favour for sysadmin... but obviously my interest in hardware, and low level means I need programming again, and the current debate has reemerged, and its

jquery had more value than most

gotten worse... rust now runs on embedded hardware "decently", rustaceans now say there is no excuse not to use rust for EVERYTHING

but still, it odesn't take much to just learn javascript once you can code in jquery, and just write straight code and skip the 100KB library

web has wasm, backend cli has clap, there is a decent gtk library I heard for rust, and then now it runs on embedded too

The reason why I hate Rust is because of their community's overal attitude.

remiliascarlet: Rust was literally adopted by the web people...

they have the same attitude

"one language to rule them all"

it was javascript, then it was typescript, and now it is rust

And also how they use Cargo for literally everything they want to do.

static linking is a big issue imo

it doesn't fit into the traditional way of distributing software

I dabbled in Linux packaging and the biggest pain in the arse is when compilers static link...

one monolithic binary...

The polar opposite of that is in Go, because in Go you're encouraged to write your own shit using the standard libraries alone.

Rust on the other hand, just load in 3rd party dependencies for literally everything. Same with Node.js.

remiliascarlet: I remember someone saying "rust was not written to replace C, but to replace C++, it was written by mozilla developers who were disillusioned with C++, while go was written by C devs to simply development"

You can write good enough go code which performs well enough for the job faster than you can write decent C

Static linking is actually very useful, since all you need is that 1 binary. Whether libraries break or not, get updated or not, get deleted or not, it doesn't affect the static binary.

C/Go have the same way of thinking though, if you need a feature, you write more code. Rust/C++ has the idea of if you need a feature you implement it into the language

Go was also created because of how long it took to compile C++ code.

a very long time ago, about 21 years ago give or take, I realized that to make the kind of web sites i wanted to make, I was going to have to learn a server side scripting language. So I looked in to my options, and narrowed it down to two:

PHP, and apple WebObjects

thank fucking god I went with PHP

I've seen Go evolve quite a bit. Go 1.22 introduced so many changes to the routing stack, it rendered Gorilla and the other routing dependencies obsolete.

static binaries are a pain in the arse... firstly if a dependency needs updating you need to recompile it, then if a dependency (such as rustls, tls library for rust) is used by many programs it is duplicated over and over and over again... likely different versions of the same library, so say if rustls has a cve, upstream must bump the version lock, and if not some programs might be vulnerable,

some might not... its a fucking headache. Not to mention that static libs dont work in the shared address space afaik, which means that each rustls static link would be loaded into memory separately, instead of shared across processes... more memory use.

GoSox: 21 years ago I thought PHP was the only option for server side scripting, and went with that.

I know loader errors are annoying, and when you have ABI changes, which makes updating dynamic libs difficult

remiliascarlet well there was always perl

lol

but I would still reach for dynamic linking over static linking for ports

You need to recompile a dynamic binary whenever the dynamic library gets updated rather.

Static binaries don't, since the library's code is included into the binary.

remiliascarlet: no, not unless the ABI changes... however I know Linux distros recompile anyways to ensure there is no ABI incompatibility

just to be safe

Only OpenBSD changes ABI's.

but if the ABI remains th same, a library can be dropped in and loaded like normally without recompiling

a linker links symbols, not codeblocks

as long as the linked symbols are the same within two library versions, it should be loaded just fine./

The reason why binaries break in Arch so often is exactly because libraries get updated, and Arch maintainers forgot to recompile and re-redistribute the binary depending on it.

disclaimer: I am not a low level developer, but I have discussed this with low level developers so I am regurtitating what I took from their knowledge, apologies if there is misconceptions

Unless you installed from AUR of course, because than it's your job to recompile.

remiliascarlet: Arch Linux is a shit show

before I hopped shit to BSD I was part of the Arch Linux community

I am renown for causing trouble :P

I got rather pissed off a lot by packagers disregard for quality, following "KISS" more than standards

the biggest thing which pissed me off most is if something was difficult to package it would be dumped into /opt

with insecure permissions

it worked, why change it?

the [core] repository was always kept to a high standard the [extra] repository mostly to a high standard, with some exceptions of things being left out of date for ages, or things being left broken, but the AUR is a shitshow...

I've been using Unix-like systems for decades, and I still don't get the point of the /opt directory.

Why not just dump it into the paths where all the stuff belongs?

its a landfill directory

its where you dump system-wide shit you couldn't be bothered to install properly

I know that Google really seems to love /opt.

i have used /root/...

They dump the Android Studio, Go, and most other things into /opt by default.

but that's not the point here i guess

remiliascarlet: like google (and Linux) give a fuck about the Unix way of doing things anyways

they piss all over conventions and standards

is there any way to have a poudriere repo "pass through" for certain ports? e.g., if i wanted to setup a local repo following "latest" and config/compile most things, but for big things like firefox have the package pulled from the official latest packages?

polarian: well, /opt is pretty much standard in unix world, solaris documents it as "Root of a subtree for add-on application packages"

I'm struggling to figure out how to use Zfs pull and setting up users with permissions on both servers to do it.

I see a lot of old guides suggesting rsync and theoretical articles discussing ZFS but nothing in terms of this is how you send over snapshots to a different machine via ssh and securely not using ssh keys without passwords on root

very tightly held secret

Is there something I can install from packages to make a FreeBSD box a UPnP client?

When I google on the topic, I keep finding hits mentioning miniupnpd, but that's for a UPnP gateway.

upnp client.. like to open nat ports on your router automatically?

I just installed a fresh FBSD on a machine and kicked of a scrub. It tells me that it repaired >5M – can that happen? I suspect it indicates that the HDDs are dying already

or simply preparing the drive?

how old were the drives? smartctl them to know for sure

Oclair, what do you mean?

rtprio, fresh stuff from 2007 8-) will look into smartmon..

there should be no inconsistancy requiring scrub on a freshly pressed `zpool create`

silly question...is php 7.4 still available in ports for 14.1 ?

I doubt php74 is still available

ok, my drives have 25000 usage hours already, lol

Maybe ZFS has higher standards and wants to map out questionable blocks than the FreeBSD install formating util

and one is dying. But that's good news – an opportunity to practice pool portation and data recovery in real life

clearly zfs is working as intended with 25000 hours on that medium

I wonder this is still kept in the pkgs then: freshports.org/www/owncloud

it says it requires php80+ but owncloud only works on php 7.4

why not just remove it then ?

Owncloud release 10.14.0 February 26, 2024

kinda risky

Whats wrong with Nextcloud?

so owncloud releases stuff in 2024 for php 7.4 which has been discontinued for 2 years ?

this is next level sillyness

thats a top pinned topic in their community forums dated 2022

yep, with Docker

that doesn't even matter though..the problem is why is there an owncloud pkg in FreeBSD

when that's completely dysfunctional

request the port be removed due to incompatible dependencies

thats an apolitical way to do it

Nextcloud is very well supported

In fact it was just recently Nextcloud which complained I needed to upgrade php to 8.2 from 8.1

Does anyone have experience using Syncoid on freebsd? github.com/jimsalterjrs/sanoid

jemius: next time, apply some ideas from here: reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/q…o_you_use_for_new_hdd_burnintesting

jemius: or, reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/qtbte3/comment/hkjxx8a

that is

Any ideas how to know disk uptime in zfs pool ? Basically I need to know when given disk was inserted and how much io has been performed

ketas, I mean, smarttools usually is the tool of choice, but my results appear surprisingly useless. I read that as "everything alright", but zpool reports repairs paste.debian.net/1337746

jemius: it reallocates sectors and has them pending, it's fail

checkpoint: i would record when i insert.

checkpoint: i am not so good at io performance for disks though

twss?

:p

zpool iostat -v gives some stats, but it is same for all three disks in my pool (mirror), yet disks were inserted with significant difference in time. Basically I need to figure out which of the disks to replace first. :)

remiliascarlet: home brew folks too

remiliascarlet: they like opt

i recommend keeping disk database

so solve that problem

when was x installed y z

yuripv: can you quote any spec for /opt standard?

ketas, what does "pending sector" mean?

jemius: it can't read or write it

unsure which

that's a big problem already

so does the firmware then typically skip those sectors?

well it retries and put data elsewhere

puts

typically if hdd has issues with sectors, something is failing

hm. But pending sector is listed as category "Old_age", not "Pre-fail". I think I'm too dumb to interpret smarttools correctly

ketas, I was not that smart at the time of pool creation. :) Anyway, disk uptime would solve my problem, is it possible to know when given disk was inserted in the pool ?

history

if it's still in jg

it

zpool historu -il

y

jemius: it already reallocated 26, now 1 is not working apparently

while zfs reports errors

there's read and checksum error

bad

disk might not catch error too

ketas, hmm.. yes, I can see 'online' events listed in zfs history. that's at least something I can rely on, thanks.

ah, doesn't matter that much, I mostly set up the machine for the lolz. But I'll search in the basement for another old drive and replace the breaking one :]

basement drives

:p

you could run above tests

then you could replace disks with tested ones

and test removed ones

that'll give you plenty of online disk replacement tasks

record results and now it's all nice

what for? It's broken already. No need to know how broken, except for curiosity

curiosity is good reason too

this is how cat died

not good :p

checkpoint: history is not forever, you could save it if needed

or not if you only needed that date

ketas: how much history is saved ?

ketas: is there any param to set history buffer size ?

i haven't checked

i didn't find iirc

"The log is implemented as a ring buffer. The minimum size is 128 KB. The maximum size is 32 MB.", from here docs.oracle.com/cd/E19253-01/819-5461/githh/index.html

how do I replace a broken hard drive?

is this complete? Can't imagine, I assume one has to format the drive and stuff

*the new drive

hmm

looks half way

I think further down is the relevant section

basically gpart it

could take ideas from existing disks

and installer scripts are also there

i wrote some helper scripts for that

which do that

of course it assumes you have used it before...

i think some commands are missing in zfs manual

because they are in some other hmm part

adding disks?

partionining and so on

hence it has no exact commands to create table etc

from quick look it isn't there

it focuses mostly on zfs

I know gpart and stuff. Just am not sure about how to feed the new drive into ZFS

zpool replace mypool ada1p3 ada2p3

zpool replace gives 10 results on that page

Seems to require both old and new dev to be online

replacing failed and working drives

well you can replace failed one of course

for boot drives, make sure they actually boot :)

that reminder is there nicely

it won't autoresize by default if you put larger disk in

if you do and resize, pool is permanently large

i think this is still off for anti footshooting

you can use md for playing

small 128m "disks", replace as much as you wish

if you want to test that

Apparently just doing `zpool replace ada0p3 ada1` without partitioning anything works

does

now you can't boot

tho

or you can until remaining disk works and is first

i partition my data disks too

first, size can differ

like in bytes

you also have to remember that this is zfs disk

and booting won't work

if you want to boot off those disks that is

I mean, it's two disks. Would be nice if both are bootable, as before. RAID-2

Oclair, to your question regarding rsnc over ssh, the rsync protocol seems to be the native protocol of the rsync program, not the ssh protocol. Have you tried to do what you want using the rsync protocol?

raid 2?

oh there is raid 2 actually

raid level numbers are weird actually

Oclair: did you get your zfs sync stuff sorted? I would generally either use github.com/bellhyve/zelta or syncoid

and use ssh with private/public keys

gaussianblue: rsync has ssh protocol capabilities.. I use it almost every day

gaussianblue: now if its "compiled" in the default binary in the ports/pkg version.. that I cannot say

( I use i =t primarily between linux boxes atm)

s/i =t/it/

hmm

thanks gaussianblue and dch, I eventually discovered syncoid github.com/jimsalterjrs/sanoid it seems to do what I need from what I can tell

i use rsync instead of zfe send|recv

dch I will check out github.com/bellhyve/zelta as well thank you!

but it has drawbacks

It's a little frustrating because this is all included in FreeBSD but I am starting to understand that there needs to be a management tool running the show

apparently i had so much trouble with different datasets that...

now, of course now datasets can't recovered

I have had success with Rsync previously but I am seeking the native zfs functionality because frankly ZFS does things I am in awe of

and one should use snapshots :p

yes I already user beadm and periodic snapshots and those have saved my hide time and time again, but now I want to see if I can archive the snapshots remotely and also replicate the server

*use

apparently recv has issues

i'm unsure how to fix them

Zfs now has that functionality native and the development is getting more and more reliable

gaussianblue: to be pedantic, there's the rsync daemon protocol (rsync://) and the rsync-over-{r,s}sh protocol; not just one 'rsync protocol', though there is some overlap in how the two operate

like what was way to not get tnem mounted on remote machine

the daemon protocol is somewhat horrid and probably shouldn't be used

who usea rsh?

it's convenient if you want to run some ftp dropbox-like thing, though

and rsyncd

in 2024

well, I know of at least one use of rsyncd that's somewhat legit

but it's an internal thing, no expectation of security

public data?

we use it for making /usr/src and /usr/ports and packages available within a cluster

well, I know of at least two uses of rsyncd that's somewhat legit

:-p

can we do 3

maybe dedicated network would justify plaintext

nfs and so on

iscsi

but imagine getting src/ports compromised?

that would be such shitshow

yeah, ideally you have some other mechanism to authenticate the results for a case like that

the first one I'm thinking of is more like a directly-attached device, file transfer of debug stuff

perhaps distfiles would not need it

as ports has sums for it

right, but you still need something to ensure the distinfo weren't tampered with

tho what if ports at fbsd get compromised?

:p

that's not much of a "line" security issue tho

anymore

I just restored a partition table with gpt to my new drive. Worked. But do I need to do something in addition so that the SWAP partition is usable for the system?

jemius: you could/should gpt label it

it has it

but iirc it's not used by label

you could just edit fstab too

where the new disk is

hm, seems `gpart bootcode -b /boot/pmbr -p /boot/gptzfsboot -i 1 ada1` is not sufficient. I get a "ZFS: inconsistent nvlist contents" at boot, followed by "Can't find /boot/zfsloader" and other errors

jemius: swap? that's usually ada*p2

anyone upgraded to 14.2 ?

HER: I haven't done an upgrade... but I am running it though atm....

Tenkawa: you're upgrading to 14.2 from what release ?

checkpoint: not me.. HER ... I installed it from scratch

Tenkawa: ah, ok.. just want to hear success stories upgrading from 13.x

Yeah I bypassed 13

hey i found a problem, anyone right now if you are running firefox head over to github.com ONLY the landing page causes this, your memory will fill and firefox will run out of memoty, and also burn your cpu

checkpoint: from 14.1 to 14.2

want to know if anything will break

its been reproduced on linux by someone else too

I had been doing dev on 15 so I had to reload anyway

polarian: burn the cpu ? brick it ?

HER: exaggeration, it will max one of your cores :P

polarian: real bad spinlock eh?

polarian: nope, seems fine here

HER: platform, browser version please

maybe they fixed it already

freebsd 14.1-RELEASE-p4 firefox 133.0 (amd64)

interesting, 133.0_1,2 for me

polarian: I confirm, landing page of Github consumes 5GB RAM, 13.3-RELEASE-p1, Firefox 128.3.1esr (64-bit)

also HER you are missing security patches, you should run freebsd-update

yikes

-p6 is the latest patchset for 14.1-RELEASE

Microsoft is gonna be sacking people tonight :P

github reports no issues

polarian: seems nobody been to their landing page for years :)

checkpoint: your esr version for firefox is quite outdated too, prob should update (latest version is in the port tree)

also yeah I already confirmed its only the landing page, been messing about with it a little bit :P

polarian: I will... soon as the need arises ;)

you mean, as soon as you are pwned?

xD

hmm... it now consumes 4.5GM only with firefox 128.5.0esr (64-bit), no CPU burnout, that's the progress!

s/GM/GB/

jemius: observe sample from here: ketas.si.pri.ee/misc/zfs-disk-init.sh

ketas, will take a look tomorrow, thx. For today I'll rage-quit I think :)

haahah

the confusion is all HER fault!

nice nick tho

i created that because who needs repeated manual tasks

no efi there tho

angry grunts in basements

what's quite confusing is why the life installer doesn't seem to configure a RAID-2 so that both drives are bootable. That's quite useless, what is someone then to do if the boot drive fails

jemius: are you looking for hardware raid-2? or you meant raid-z?

cybercrypto, no hardware raid. Just a machine with two drives and selecting the ZFS install mode "mirror"

noone does actual raid2 anymore

I am poor.

poor poor boy

but he's a learnie

:)

anyways, even a RAID-10 has to have some solution for the bootloader drive failing

raid 1+0?

wait installer didn't configure both mirror disks as boot?

because last time i tried it did

and i bet it still does

it creates identical setup

note that mirror install also supports different size hdds

just only sized for smallest disk

this machine got 160g+80g at first

apparently i had no other proper machines anymore for tests

jemius: I am asking because you wrote raid-2.

jemius: you want two disks to be redundant or mirrored? I am quite sure you can setup either way.

I can only tell you that I end up with a mirrored ZFS but one of the two doesn't boot

new one? :)

yes. But re-installed

that gpart command is ok btw

but it needs some part table

wait you had it?

unsure what went wrong there then

but yeah, two-disk mirror is somehow called raid1

ketas: Sure thing. I dont care if no one does raid-2 (if you say so). I was replying to a raid-2 question and trying to clarify. Quite simple.

i want to make that thing :p

I have to demo yosys synthesis for students at local university. They have only windoze machines at the lab, so I need to boot from somewhere else.

if you take usb3 drive

fast i guess

200m read?

200mb/s

writes can be the problem. anyway, I'm going to try it soon.

checkpoint: I believe if you have at least USB 2.0 to boot from, your system will run reasonably acceptable. I have a usb-drive 2.0 (complete freebsd install) I use eventually on the go (x11/fvwm)

anybody runs wayland with alderlake intel gpu ?

cybercrypto: ok, thanks.

do you need writes tho?

but even they work

ketos: I'll be compiling (synthesizing) some demos, can do it to tmpfs though

sounds fun demo

yeah, I'm popularizing FOSS synthesis tools :)

Hi, how difficult or easy is to take an horpan package and maintain it? is there any onboarding/tutorial/documentation in terms on how to: a) contribute your own package -i.e. you have written a small tool and you want to create a package and propose it as part of the ports- b) take care of an horphan package

s/horpan/orphan/

what package ?