sup all

rwp: crw------- 1 hjf tty 0x149 Oct 9 21:19 /dev/tty

rwp: tty outputs /dev/cuaU3

with su i can become root

but as root i can't sudo, hah

though, su - gives an error: r999l999H6neresizewin: timeout reading from terminal

I still think it is related to the sharing of the tty and therefore the tty is not owned by root at that time.

From an hjf login can you "sudo -i" to become root? That should work, assuming you have sudo configured for hjf.

nope that doesn't work

off-topic, but fbsd: github.com/KlaraSystems/sync-be

i add second disk in freebsd, i can't operate that disk such as create file etc because no permission, how to grant common user to operate that disk, paste.centos.org/view/0d8a895c

as root , it can operate second disk

xxy: well, by default it will have no permissions. do you want any user to be able to write?

bleh, so I finally made the switch to drm-61-kmod on 14-STABLE, and it's evidently not usable on my ThinkPad T495 with its AMD APU

screen just goes blank during boot

tm512: did you add anything to kld_list in /etc/rc.conf or /boot/loader.conf?

would I have to? I'm switching over to it from a working drm-510-kmod setup

no, just asking if you have

I never had to modify those files when swapping between 510 and 515 while I was troubleshooting issues

hjf: right , if no permission , why it can't operate with common user (non-root-user),

unfortunately, at least as of 6mo ago, 515 was busted, randomly kernel panicked within like 2-3 hours of booting the system

it sounded like 510 is being dropped from 14-STABLE though

I see a flash of messages being printed out regarding amdgpu but it's too quick for me to read anything. I'll see if I can't ssh in and get a dmesg

fbd0: not attached to vt(4) console; another device has precedence (err=17)

that might be why I'm not getting any video

dch: paste.centos.org/view/83327cba

dch: do you notice my first paste page , paste.centos.org/view/0d8a895c, the first disk is zfs , second is ufs

dch: i have another issue , i installed OS (freebsd +ubunut) several times in two disk separately, then in BIOS boot options, there have many boot options , like UEFI OS /UEFI 0S (hardName name), i can't modify boot order or disable invalid boot option from start bios, how to fix it

xxy: where is the disk mounted? you can always chmod 777 /mount/point if that's what you really want... otherwise you can create directories as root and assign them to users (chown username /mount/point)

hjf: it mount in /newdisk

jauntyd, Regarding Klara's sync-be... Wouldn't it be nice if when people wrote programs that they included a one line description of what it did at the top? Followed by a very short paragraph describing what it did in a little more detail? I see it is a shell script and the license takes up until line 27. But there is little clue as to the *intention* of the script. Meh.

rwp: i agree, but from what i've seen in the last, oh....10 years, people don't put headers on programs like they used to. or comment for that matter

i used to learn a lot from the programmer's comments which in turn helped me learn how to code. i guess people just search stack_____ now :/

can i also mention apps are much heavier now? :(

jauntyd: which is the natural way of things

the searching?

No, the software-getting-heavier. Try looking at 1970s s/370 code. Back then, every instruction counted. Still does, in a way, since you're paying per CP cycle. :°)

ah, you know better than me i'd say

courier-mta.org/cone/bk01-toc.html this default color scheme is fabulous

in the app not the docs

how to install kernel sources after freebsd OS installing completely

xxy1: I just download and extract the tar, not sure if that is the proper way

vedranm: is it "github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src"?, and where should the src be placed? are there specific requirement?

I just extracted the tar when I had to do that

iirc I looked at the install script and figured out where it got the tarball from

vedranm: where did you download tar ?

the src.txz for your release from download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases

rwp: nimaje: I resolved my yesterday's troubles with no automounting of ZFS datasets. Turns out I lacked zfs_enable="YES" in /etc/rc.conf - it's written in various places in docs, but not in wiki.freebsd.org/RootOnZFS/GPTZFSBoot

rwp: that is on me, I have some notes somewhere but I need to de-customer-ify them first

xxy: too early for me, otherwise LGTM. We should see something of note in Xorg.0.log next up.

xxy1: yes you can download your missing tarballs from download.freebsd.org/releases/amd64/14.1-RELEASE and `tar xzpf src.txz -C /` this is all the installer does anyway

is there a list of device drivers that need to be worked on?

any ideas why my login manager is booting to a black screen?

slim gives me a login then black screen

lightdm goes directly to black screen

startx starts normally

jayway: is there anything of importance in /var/log/messages?

i needed to enable dbus in rc.conf

good then

i am installing openbox and is not covered in handbook so missed that step

yes...everything seems working normally now

good to hear, enjoy

ty :)

when updating a 13.4-RELEASE to a 14.1-RELEASE using freebsd-update on a system running UFS, does the bootloader get updated automagically?

hello all, is it OK to ask here about file systems support on freebsd?

I would hope so, yes

I'm going to set up a freebsd server for research, home file system, etc, and would like to have an external HDD with the big data (movies, etc)

which file system would be the most appropiate?

I have btfrs at the moment, but as far as I can tell it's not very well supported on freebsd

I would default to zfs

i've considered exfat, but it seems to require FUSE, which I'd rather not use because performance reasons

i agree with nimaje. ZFS is very well supported on FreeBSD

hehe like my opinion matters :)

the idea is to be able to plug it to another computer if necessary

is ZFS remotely usable on windows?

Krusher: openzfs is supported on freebsd, linux, macos and (i think) windows. considering it's btrfs now, which is linux only, i assume you don't have any boxes other than linux, and linux + openzfs work well together (i have 40TB of stuff on it)

oh I though Linux didn't work very well with ZFS

at the moment I've got windows, linux and mac boxes at home

but it isn't a problem if macos can't read that particular drive

Krusher: there are some nits with OpenZFS on Linux that come about as a result of it being a third-party kernel module, and it also runs up against some of the weirdness of Linux' virtual memory subsystem (which causes ARC to be limited to 50% of total system memory by default).

main issue with linux and zfs is if you're trying to do root on zfs, but since it's an external drive that won't really be a problem

apart from that it works fine

I see, thank you very much for the insight

well, assuming you don't run the latest kernel. if you do, it has all the issues of an external kmod as debdrup said

And OpenZFS using the internal KPI in Linux means they're subject to the same amount of fluctuation that FreeBSD has to deal with, when importing things from Linux.

Linus says to never break userspace, but internal KPI can change as much as it needs to, and fuck any downstream consumers, I guess?

apart from ZFS, what other file systems are possible on freebsd without FUSE?

I mean, I get that they can't keep the KPI completely stable, but some of the changes seem like change for the sake of change.

I see EXT# is a possibility, albeit without journaling

Krusher: msdosfs (for EFI), EXT2-4 (journaling can be provided by gjournal(8), iirc), and UFS.

Oh, and perhaps more importantly, NFS.

And not just NFS; NFSv4.2 (including NFS over TLS, which nothing else can do as of last I checked).

And that ties back into ZFS, because OpenZFS on Linux can't do NFSv4 ACLs, _at all_.

I'm considering EXT4 because I feel a bit overwhelmt by ZFS

So you're not going to be sharing permissions between Samba and NFS if you run a multi-OS environment.

Krusher: why? UFS is better.

never considered UFS, I'll have to read about it

UFS (and FFS) has been in development since the 80s.

csrg/original-bsd d4b8d8d237bc9 here's the very first commit to UFS

cgit.freebsd.org/src/commit/sys/ufs/ufs?id=2ed053cde5 and here's the newest commit, showing it's still being actively maintained

I have to admit i'm a bit scared of all this

UFS seems problematic under windows, though

I have to assess how much problematic compared to ext or others

Krusher: it's no different to when you moved to linux. every kernel has its own filesystems. linux has ext2-4, btrfs, bcachefs, xfs, ... freebsd has ufs and zfs as the two primary in-tree filesystems. they can't possibly have the exact same code for the filesystems because they are different kernels, just like windows and mac don't have those filesystems and instead use their own. ultimately, from a user

and here's a real fun thing: cgit.freebsd.org/src/commit/sys/ufs/ufs?id=35a301555b is a commit from Kirk McKusick, who started working on UFS back in 1982: csrg/original-bsd f33622a83f9

perspective using something like zfs won't even be noticable. you can just ignore all of its features and just use it as you would ext4. of course, the features are there if you want them

that's over 40 years of actively working on the same part of an opensource project - which i don't think a whole lot of people can claim

about ZFS, if I decide use it on the external HDD, will be able to unmount and detach it?

because it seems all the disks in the system are part of a pool or something like that

sorry, I'm not still very savvy of it

Krusher: there isn't really ANY filesystem that can be used across a wide swath of OS - and OpenZFS comes closest to being the one that does it natively (since things like EXT need Windows-specific ports not maintained by the folks who handle EXT in Linux)

OpenZFS hasn't yet merged support for the Windows port either, and I don't truly know the state of it.

If you want to transfer data between systems, NFS or Samba is really the only way.

I understand

It's been that way forever, and it's likely going to stay that way.

well there's a lot to think of

but I really appreciate your input and your kindness

If OpenZFS accepts the Windows port, assuming it ever gets finished, that could potentially solve the issue - but that's going to be a LONG while, because there's a lot of work to finish the Windows port, and there's only one person working on it.

exfat on usb

exfat is encumbered, though

ahh

I'd rather not to use FUSE because the performance, though

Krusher: how do you do these things today? since your external HDD is on btrfs which as far as i'm aware is only supported on linux

If you're transferring onto spinning rust, FUSE isn't going to slow you down noticably on a modern computer.

there's some support on windows: github.com/maharmstone/btrfs

although, to be honest, I haven't tested it yet

.oO(spinning rust, because angular momentum is more secure)

so far I've transfered files via SSH and samba

Also, I haven't read the backlog, so maybe it's explained there.. But asking BTRFS questions on #freebsd ? Seems... misguided :P

spinning rust means a mechanical hard disk drive? :D

debdrup sorry if it wasn't the best place, I'm a bit clueless

Krusher: personally i wouldn't really trust this to be compatible with the linux implementation, especially with this kind of disclaimer: You use this software at your own risk. I take no responsibility for any damage it may do to your filesystem. It ought to be suitable for day-to-day use, but make sure you take backups anyway.

ober: tell that to gyroscopic precession when you pull out a rack of 90 running spinning rust devices arranged in the wrong configuration...

don't they have ext2 drivers in windows now with wsl et al?

WSL is weird.

Krusher: ssh/rsync/samba/nfs are your best bets today with btrfs, and it likely won't change with ZFS (but you'll have compatibility with linux and mac at least)

ober: wsl2 runs under hyperv

it runs a full linux kernel

I see

I think I'll try with ZFS

WSL1 is a syscall translation layer (ala that found in FreeBSD, which is where Microsoft got the idea), WSL2 is a hypervisor (as dstolfa says), but it uses 9pfs, to my knowledge.

It does use 9pfs, yes

Krusher: yes, "spinning rust" refers to harddisks.

good one :D

For my macOS clients I use Netatalk (sometimes slow), but the main tool to keep everything in sync is NextCloud

netatalk is being dropped in macOS, too

it's samba or nfs all the way

Samba seems to be a kludge . NFS is an option.

I use samba for convenience, and ssh when I need some performance

I have to confess I'm biased towards NFS too.

Yes, rsync via ssh is a great option.

sshfs can be pretty fast in some cases. except where the single cpu comes into play.

Being able to expose it on the web (nullmounted into a jail), on a single TCP port using AES-GCM encryption? That's pretty fucking cool.

nullmounted read-only*

NFS over WAN is a real possibility nowadays.

rclone.exe might have some ways through fuse to mount a remote system

Windows has NFS support (though shamefully, not NFSv4 on the non-Enterprise versions).

unsure if that's any better than nfs/smb though tbh

Userspace mounting via rclone always seemed dubious to me.

yeah layers on layers

fusefs, for as much as I don't like it, is at least a better option since it's standardized

ouch I just realised PLEX has dropped support for hardware transcoding on intel :(

debdrup: isnt the whole KTLS thing meant to securely facilitate nfs over wan?

f451: you can do nfs over tls without ktls, ktls is for hardware tls offload to network cards that support that (i believe written by netflix for their http vod servers)

at least that was my understanding, i thought nfs tls only depends on crypto(4)

aha i didnt know that

guess ill have a read of 'man ktls' if its there ;)

it is but the history section only says when, not why (initially)

ivy: just read the man page :D

it doesn't have to be used in ifconfig mode though

presumably oter nics can use it in other modes

'is for' doesn't mean you can't use it in another way, but if the kernel still has to do the crypto in software you don't gain as much as when that is offloaded to your network card

TCP_TLS_MODE_SW

oh interesting, apparently rpc.tlsclntd(8) does use ktls

think it's in generic too

i wonder if that means you get nic tls offload for free, that would be nice

(ktls)

i cant pretent i have more than a very basic grasp of it. was thinking about using it

can one expect X11 to work for freebsd under bhyve?

i'd give it 50/50. you might have better luck with xrdp

using bvcp

vncserver it is

i was never able to run anything in bhyve

linux ran for a while until 12.0 i think? then it broke

ober: the vnc built in bhyve is ... better suited to temporary access

k. no luck outside of bvcp to get graphics working. e.g. netbsd

user error no doubt

rtprio: or in practice, 'Windows'. since i think everything else support serial console. (except possibly the RHEL installer, but that has its own VNC implementation)

ivy: actually windows server also supports serial console

but the vnc feels kinda laggy when i use it

EMS yeah, but does it for installing? maybe on netinstall, not sure if that enter the GUI part of setup

don't recall; only had one windows box on bhyve and then my license expired and haven't used it in forever

we have about 10 windows server vms here in hyper-v that i really want to move to bhyve but i fear it's going to be a headache

convert the disks and try them; i did that with one of the hyperv images that microsoft provides and it booted fine

guess i should enable the EMS first :-)

rtprio: did you use virtio disks or the hardware emulation?

my (limited) experience in moving windows between systems is that it's the system disk device driver that tends to be a pain as it won't boot at all without it

virtio

and you didn't need to install the virtio drivers first? that's interesting

the image i used may have already had them

yeah, i wonder if they include that in the OS now

so i had quite a few issues with a serial port. and they went away after i rebooted my server, lol

Hi!, in an Hyper-V VM, I'm getting: WARNING: R/W mount denied. Filesystem is not clean - run fsck.

mount: /dev/da1s1: Operation not permitted.

fsck -f /dev/da1s1 ?

fsck: fsck_ext2fs for /dev/da1s1

try fsck_ext2fs then?

are you sure it's a linux disk?

no!, this should be an root zfs disk!

Something is misconfigured then.

yes, this is the only customer who uses HyperV and I get support requests every week. I hate it.

So, I don't know, but here is what I think I might know. Windows system, running Hyper-V, is misconfigured to boot a ZFS image but is instead trying to boot it as a Linux ext4 disk, and so fails and prints that message. But it should be booting the FreeBSD loader instead. Not. So something wrong there.

Because ZFS does not have an external fsck and nothing in the system would say that a ZFS file system is dirty and needs an fsck. Ergo I conclude it is not booting the FreeBSD loader.

where is it getting the non-zfs root from then?

hrm, you've got... msdos partitions (da1s1) not gparts (da1p1)

i can't say i've ever had a root zfs with the former

or perhaps the da0 isn't completely zfs ? can you paste some zpool status and other relevant bits

I cannot login to the hyperv now...

this is a fun terminal to use but man i wish i can have a hard status line

limits of the tech of the day

i remember the wyse i used back then had one

rwp: you know what else doesn't work? ctrl-a x in gnu screen. should lock the screen and ask for a password, but it just hangs

All of those things all all ioctl() calls on /dev/tty and/or `tty` and so make sense that all of them work when they all work and all fail when they all fail.

rwp: yeah i really have no idea. other than chmod 777 /dev/tty i have no clue what it could be

I use the IPMI SOL serial console quite frequently. I use the VM serial console quite frequently. I haven't seen the problem you describe outside of the "su" issue I noted.

I have not actually had a hardware serial port connected to my FreeBSD systems. Though I routinely have a serial console on my Devuan Banana Pi WiFi and on other Linux kernel systems.

Meaning that you are doing something I have not done and may be hitting a problem specifically with that hardware serial driver.

i also tried reverting /etc/ttys back to a more generic state. std.19200, vt100

but still, nothing

i also tried logging in as a different user

The problem is that I am supposed to be doing other real work right now and you are causing me to want to find a DB-9 to DB-25 serial cable and to connect up one of my terminals to a FreeBSD machine here so I can try reproducing. It's been a while since these were powered on and it would be good to check out this "modern" Wyse terminal.

i'm not saying you should

but you know, kids today won't get to experience sitting in front of the glow of a CRT if we don't keep them running for posterity

I've used the serial port on APU2 and APU3.

also, i just tried a different serial port. the ch340 based one, and it has the same problem

I beat my head on the wall a ton before I realised I need the null connector.

Yes. DTE to DTE needs a null modem cable. Cables are DTE-DCE by default.