nvm my bad. bhyve ok!

lw: I assumed that

the licence page doesn't really say FreeBSDs view on copyleft... it makes it very clear they only accept BSD code within the core projects... but apart from that I dont see any "We disagree with GPL", unlike OpenBSD which started a war to eradicate GPL from its base system.

maybe I missed something?

well, i'd say a policy forbidding GPL code counts as disagreeing with the GPL :-) i don't know if there's a specific policy statement on that, but a lot of work has been done over the years to replace GPL base components with non-GPL ones

I guess its more implicit then... and I completely missed ot

it*

this is where things like libarchive and bsdgrep came from

doesn't this cause friction though?

not that i've noticed, i think people who use/develop freebsd recognise that not having copyleft code in base (except where unavoidable) is a benefit for users

Hop into a Linux channel and not supporting GPL is seen as a crime... and then hop into BSD and its the opppsite...

lw pkgbase will make that even better

is FreeBSD core GPL-free?

polarian: go to ask a linux channel about AGPL/GPLv3 and see what friction you get :-)

yikes...

they pretend v3 doesn't exist :P

polarian: yes, see src/gnu/

not very much though

I remember someone asking touvalds when he will adopt GPLv3 :P

so like OpenBSD, removing src/gnu is a long term.goal?

er, i mean, no it's not gpl free (i answered the opposite question, does it contain gpl code)

yes, i'm sure any patches to remove the remaining gpl code would be welcome

the tricky part is it has to not break existing users, which means you can't just take an existing non-GPL implementation and dump it in src

getting bsdgrep to work in all situations that ggrep did (especially re: performance regressions) is still ongoing work

what about the git situation... OpenBSD had their attempt at making OpenCVS (wtf even happened to OpenCVS?), does FreeBSD have a similar issue with VCS or is git simply standard and thus not worth replacing?

i don't know what core's stance on Git is but i assume since it's not actually in-tree it's fine -- you can create your own freebsd-based product and the fact that freebsd.org uses git doesn't affect you at all

lw: well dare include coreutils and Stallman will start calling it gnu/BSD :P

ah so eliminating GPL is more focused on the users than the developers...?

because the average FreeBSD user won't need git... (unless they are a developer)

yes, the idea is that you can take freebsd and create a proprietary product from it, which makes it more useful than if it had gpl code in. it's not (so much) as philosophical objection to the gpl, although i'm sure many bsd people dislike it

(i personally don't care about creating proprietary products from freebsd but i strongly dislike copyright in general so i would always prefer a more free license (BSD) over a less free one (GPL))

lw: there really needs to be some tool to fetch the git repo in base at some point. we had svnlite back in svn days and it made some things quite a bit easier to test. now when i break the ABI or run on unsupported architectures, i *have* to build git separately somewhere which is just annoying

dstolfa: pkg install FreeBSD-src FreeBSD-src-sys!

not everything uses pkgbase

ok, technically not a git repo though

(the average FreeBSD power-user will more likely use git than not though)

dstolfa: fetch the tarball for a commit?

polarian: 99% of the time i want the repository, not just the source

oh...

ask infra to export git.freebsd.org via NFS?

lw: via kerberos...? :)

make sure to have the full package

maybe autofs somewhere in there too

why NFS? why not ftp?

polarian: because if you mount via nfs you can actually use it as a source tree. but that wasn't really a serious suggestion

ah... right...

it would be interesting to see OpenBSD re-implementing git with a permissive license as an "OpenGit" project

i do think it's a bit odd that the src control system isn't in src itself

that was always the case with sccs, rcs, cvs

kenrap: it's called got and it was practically useless last time i tried it

lw: I do have to point out that FSF states GNU is freer than BSD, so it does solely depend on your individual viewpoint... I don't agree with them... just got to point out its relative

(although sccs was under a very non-free license, since lots of src was proprietary code back then)

kenrap: There is a library which is permissively licenced

Game of Trees, lovely name

I would like to see what the OpenBSD folks would do to a git rewrite

git is HUGE

I'm sure they would cut out anything they deem useless, or outdated

if someone was going to rewrite git, it would be worth considering alternatives (hg, darcs) at the same time, although i don't know how those are licensed

HG is GPL

opensolaris used hg and i hated it, but that was 20 years ago, i imagine it's improved

hg is simpler but AFAIK its slower and less storage efficient

just checked darcs is also GPL

oh well, back to SCCS then

it does seem like nix userspace is dominated by GPL

FSF has a good PR team

FSF makes open source devs seem insane

and copyleft is trendy

i'm trying to get a grafana plugin (github.com/quickwit-oss/quickwit-datasource) to build on freebsd. i got the Go part building with mage. JS part i can't figure out, how to get yarn install to run because node_modules/cypress: command failed. cypress/lib/tasks/state.js:51 errors 'Platform "freebsd" is not supported'. how can i get that

working pls pls?

lw: have you seen "escape to freedom" on gnu.org?

polarian: most people consider my political views insane so i wouldn't hold that against them. holding a contrary opinion rather than ceding to the popular position seems commendable by itself

OK I will rephrase it from "insane" to "extreme"

any grafana users?

you probably should ask in #freebsd-ports, polyex

its still annoying how reverse engineering of old hardware is all GPL'd... While Linux will run in almost anything... BSD lacks behind on compatibility... although FreeBSD seems to support quite a wide range of stuff... and attempts to borrow said implementations from Linux has led to threats of lawsuits... so I assume this is why BSD devs/users are disillusioned with GPL? because its been used against BSD?

so i ran into a weird FRR bug earlier: le-fay.org/tmp/30d/a7E1u3.txt - it thinks 10.255.0.10/30 is on wg1, but it's clearly not. anyone seen this before?

re

supposedly (from RMS' point of view) copyleft gives power to the users, but from my point of view permissive-ness gives power to the developer. So having copyleft hardware "gives power to the user" from the big corps.

kenrap: isn't that backwards? copyleft gives power to the developer (because it lets them control how people use their software), permissive gives power to the user (because they can use the software however they want)

lw: nope, because for example, if someone even links to a GPL licensed library, it "infects" the project to be GPL as well, regardless of license.

Can I prevent anyone else from selling copies of my software with copyleft?

AlaskanEmily: yes, although the GPL itself doesn't do that

a license that prohibits selling copies of the software would usually be considered not a free / open source license, even by the FSF

What other copyleft licenses would you suggest? Most of them end up coming down to permissive, but with more patent or legal stipulations.

i don't know of any license that does that off hand, although i imagine at least one must exist

(this used to be an issue for sites like cdrom.com because they couldn't sell CDs containing software that you're not allowed to sell... less of an issue nowadays i guess since people don't buy software on CD anymore)

So some semi-similar licenses might be the MPL and CDDL. Ultimately those end up meaning that individual files must be redistributed in kind, but any new code could be of any license, and you can mix them freely.

If you want to ensure that a piece of software stays open source, they don't really do that. They ensure that individual components must remain source-available and free to distribute.

permissive -> "sure, do what you want, but be sure to credit me", copyleft -> "if you make changes, then gimme gimme"

lw: actually I can see why you were thinking that way in terms of open source developers, but with changes being required to be open and practically sent back to upstream, it ultimately benefits the users of the software with more features, etc.

you often have the issue that you don't want the code that comes back, the Toybox maintainer ran into that when he was in charge of Busybox and actually spent years battling corporations to comply with the GPL

also, the GPL in particular can prevent others from embedding your project in other free software projects or even using it

You have to ask what your goal is. Copyleft doesn't automatically give developers what they want for their software.

Permissive won't necessarily either.

e.g. SoX has the best audio resampling algorithm in the free software world, but it's GPL'd, you can't use it in libopus which is BSD licensed because that would impose additional restrictions on libopus

You also couldn't use it, for instance, in a case where you needed to talk to hardware with a proprietary driver without jumping through tons of hoops (this is why many audio libraries are LGPL or MPL'ed, if they aren't just BSD/MIT/ISC licensed)

(Specifically in an embedded situation, or where you need to use a proprietary API)

Konversation kterminate

Konversation klosed

can anyone recommend a *small* application to do IP address management? i just want to easily track which IP addresses have been assigned where

for a small network, not SP/enterprise

lw: wouldn't your dhcp server give you that information?

lw: have you tried the dude?

Title: MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Software

if you are using that red awesome router, you shared a few weeks ago

mns: no, since many things don't use DHCP -- servers (static assignments), router link nets, anycast addresses, etc

voy4g3r2: i tried it and thought it was not very good :-)

although i have a spare RB4011 now, maybe i should have another go.

voy4g3r2: i replaced that mikrotik with a freebsd box because it's just... more useful.

hehe

i came to same conclucion

Title: Grafana: The open observability platform | Grafana Labs

i am NOT sure what can really be done iwth this

but i am toying with this because i swear something is going on, with some device on my network...

bcr did an amazing talk about it at bsdcan2019

concussious: grafana?

yes

voy4g3r2: grafana is good for monitoring (i use it with prometheus) but not really for IPAM... unless there's a plugin for that?

i hear those in combo, i only started "exploring" a few hours ago

but i know i need to monitor SNMP stuff

how.. it keeps coming to those two pieces of software

so grafana is just a frontend, it needs something else to collect the data. Prometheus or InfluxDB are both popular for that, i think Graphite also works

oh good to know.. i got sucked into the hype

but it probably does not answer your question

maybe there is a way to play with the ARP table?

as in.. query it from router and get ?

i could do that but it doesn't really need to be automated, just something better than a manually edited text file

there any way to tell 'go mod tidy' from a specific dir pls?

yeah, i started the whole static ip and dhcp mix.. probably will get to your problem..sooner than later

im so sorry, it was icinga

not sure i understand..

polyex: the go language?

ya

trying to get a grafana plugin built

sorry, can not help.. i have not touched that language plus much smarter programmers here than me..

polyex, my "hack" for creating Grafana plugsins, was to use the HTML panel and embed a page that did what I needed.

we can build them now

polyex: oh, i would just default to python/perl/html for what i can read

review log files... generate an output

there really should be a way to create a new vlan without having to reconfigure 5 different devices to pass it. (in fact i think there is, but nothing i use supports it...)

in my bsdinstall script i can run ls -la /tmp/jails/testjail/tmp and see a file in there, but after i cp -RpP /tmp/jails/testjail/ /usr/local/jails/testjail/, i ls -la /usr/local/jails/testjail/tmp and the file isn't in there?

ok i guess what's happening is when the jail starts, it clears /tmp heh

i guess that's because the jail host has clear tmp enabled in its rc

hm i wonder how to work around this

i keep forgetting that our jails aren't actually PID namespaces…

as in, they are enclosed, but not remapped from 1

voy4g3r2: would using the release notes make it possible to do the upgrade WITHOUT an KVM?

MiniontobyPI: most of my FreeBSD machines are VPSes, and I've almost never needed more than ssh to upgrade them

oke, thx

only my development VMs I fuck up badly enough to need it :P

I guess I can run `freebsd-update upgrade -r 13.3-RELEASE` to upgrade from 12.2?

Thx guys!

but wait

oh right, I have to run the install command again after reboot

Yay, it works

from 12.2? whew

high risk high reward

MiniontobyPI: all good?

MiniontobyPI, don't forget to upgrade the boot code.

s2r: how do I?

MiniontobyPI forums.freebsd.org/threads/update-o…a-gpt-scheme-x64-architecture.80163

Title: Update of the bootcodes for a GPT scheme (x64 architecture) | The FreeBSD Forums

if you are using gpt partitioning

I am using amd64 as architecture, and I don't know if I use gpt patitioning, since I do not have any specs of the machine

Oh I see tere is a command

Yeah, the first partion is Gpt

or wait

=> 40 52428720 vtbd0 GPT (25G)

40 111 vtbd0p1 freebsd-boot (56K)

151 52428609 vtbd0p2 freebsd-ufs (25G)

Btw guys: I am really new to freebsd, what is the rcctl or systemctl alternative that freebsd offers?

What do these do?

Manage services

like sshd or nsd

like `start sshd`, `stop sshd` and `restart sshd`

Is service(8) what you're looking for?

I think so

MiniontobyPI: another file that may be involved in that whole thing is /etc/rc.conf

Apologies in advance for over the top enthusiasm but HOW COOL that you get compression out of the box like you do on ZFS. I'm coming from a couple of decades of ext3/4 use and this is just incredible to see something like 30GB of text files get shruken down into almost nothing

Was just doing tests like $ yes > 1.txt

it is dependent on data and the compression algorithm used..

Right, these were intentionally kind of repetitive so I know the results were exaggerated but still SO cool and so different from what I'm used to

thanks guys

I'm trying to use diskinfo(8) to test adevice for ZFS SLOG use, but when invoking it with -wS I always get "Sync write error: Bad file descriptor"... what gives?

Doesn't matter if I use it against the raw nda device or after gpart create and gpart add

wait until Steeve learns about zfs dedup

Compression is probably more generally useful than dedup.

👆

hm get a problem in grafana.log. error downloading plugin manifest keys. how can i disable that? i have to request permission to open fw and i don't wanna bother with that

nvm

anyone used grafana provisioning to configure plugins using a file?

got it!!

polyex: What is this provisioning you are talking about? :)

some grafana shit to config a plugin with a file instead of clicking on UI