what is this? github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/tree/main/stand/kboot good for?

Title: freebsd-src/stand/kboot at main · freebsd/freebsd-src · GitHub

It's an implementation of an API found in Linux, iirc.

It makes a kind of sense given who's paying for the work if you consider what they might want (or, more likely have, since there's a delay between something being tested in production at Netflix and it going into the FreeBSD tree).

Unless they've been making big architectural changes that they've yet to talk about, their front-end is Linux on a butt provider while FreeBSD provides the data-intensive part of the CDN in the form of Open Connect Appliances.

All of this is public information, and they've been fairly vocal about all of it - the secret sauce of how they can handle about a third of the internets traffic at its peak is in the configuration.

The configuration and its associated institutional knowledge (and by extension the engineers that configured it).

That latter part will, I believe, turn out to be more significant - a fact that might be dawning on people who're trying to run a certain bird site.

s/run/ruin/ :-)

Well, yes.

It's not like infrastructure degrades instantly if the people with institutional knowledge disappear, but usually by the time it does it'll be too late to do anything about it.

And institutional knowledge isn't really something you can document your way out of, because much of it is knowing 1) what has been tried in the past and 2) just as importantly, if not more, how those attempts failed

debdrup: so history is the best documentation

hello

can I set a static dns server in some other way then adding it to resolv.conf ?

wg-down quick empties resolv.conf

and I have to readd manually

you cant. but you should check what to do about that wg-down to get dns servers back

hehe yeah thats probably a better idea, thanks

removing DNS = from wg.conf was only thing needed

exit

man.freebsd.org/install(1)#COMPATIBILITY "Historically install moved files by default. The default was changed to copy in FreeBSD 4.4." — okay, but how do i get the old behaviour?

Title: install(1)

looks like there's no way, so you have to delete the old one yourself

ngortheone: that's not what I said.

i'm having an issue with my server

all the 4 drives plugged to the controller are spamming dmesg with errors

and of the mirrors is stuck ain a resilvering loop

i would like to replace the disk controller but is it safe, provided the resilvering is going?

ISTR someone here saying resilvering is resumable across reboots, but don't take my word for it.

ZFS resilvers won't be affected by a reboot except that it'll add however long the reboot takes to finish the resilver.

Only thing that can cause problems during a resilver is if there's an URE and not enough data availability to fix the issue, or if there's catastrophic hardware failure.

ok, thanks

then i'll try to replace the controller

wouldn't it be really cool if Phab linked to bugzilla when someone opens a review with PR: pr-number ?

Title: ⚙ D38370 certctl(8): Remove untrusted certificates from TRUSTPATH

so i'm using some command line utiliuties that werte normally built for linux and it looks like pipes are not working correctly or there is something with the /bin/sh. is there some shell debugging i can use to see what is going on?

CCFL_Man: first line

#!/bin/sh -x

to echo all commands including values of variables

use `set -x` to activate this from some line on, and `set +x` to turn it off again.

And you could write to stderr without disturbing stdout (which is mainly used by the pipes) by `echo "my Vari is ${vari}" >&2` or `printf "something %s here\n" "${vari}" >&2` or `date >&2` etc.

Echoing to a log file via setting a log file `LOG=/tmp/my.log` and using things like `echo "my Vari ${vari}" >> ${LOG} in the script, while using some `tail -F /tmp/my.log` in another terminal (`-F` means: stay on file, not inode, and continue cat-ing it.) You can use `\n`-Keys to add empty lines in the tail-output for your convinience, and can

even write there (is not added to the log file)

and to copy a pipes output to a log file (maybe using `tail -F /tmp/my.log` again) something like

`mycommand  parameters | tee -a /tmp/my.log | secondcommand params` as tee(1) does copy to the file (`-a` for appending)

does that help?

do we support set -o pipefail ?

according to the manual page sh(1) yes :-) (I take it, you did mean that.). One could write some test to test it.

yes

sh -x vtcat -vvv @vlf44:1 -- -,f4 | vtwrite -L /mnt/nas/vlf44/log/vtwrite_32k.log -G 3600

sh: cannot open vtcat: No such file or directory

vtcat exists and can be called directly, but with that pipe, vtcat returns no error

CCFL_Man: full qualified path instead?

ahh

that still returns the usage help output of vtcat

now, that command string will work fine on linux systems, but i'm trying to debug why it won't run on freebsd

in Linux the sh is a bash called sh, in freeBSD it is a real sh. Might there be the problem?

is vtcat a shell script?

Kalten: Depends on the Linux. Debian, sh is dash, like FreeBSD's ash.

mason: good to know. I thought, all Linux distributions used bash in place of sh. Interesting...

no, vtcat is a compiled program. do you think i should contact the author?

perhaps it's not a freebsd or shell issue

The real sh was Stephen Bourne, and ash was, of course, written by Kenneth Almquist.

was written by*

I had to look up their first names :(

CCFL_Man: mbut you have compiled it for FreeBSD?

yes. i can use the other functions of the program without issue

`truss /path/vtcat -vvv @vlf44:1 -- -,f4 | /path/vtwrite -L /mnt/nas/vlf44/log/vtwrite_32k.log -G 3600` would tell you far more.

let me try that

buckle up ;-)

'truss, right?

truss(1) traces system calls. plenty of output—hence: buckle up :-)

sometime it helps

what is this vtcat and vtwrite thing?

if I remember correctly, it's VLF signal processing software

i have vague memories of messing around with it when I was an active HAM

Kalten: Is that packaged? If so others might have an easier time looking. If it's not, maybe pull out that vtcat invocation and run it alone, see if it has a usage message, etc.

Sorry, tabfail. CCFL_Man ^

debdrup: I meant that historical records can serve as a missing link, an addition to traditional documentation. As an answer to what was tried and how/why things failed. Sorry if my comment was a bit out of context :)

Kalten: that is good information. i think i'lk post it to the author

mason: it's not packaged, but i can use vtcat in other ways with a pipe, but with that spefic pipe and format output "-- -,f4", it fails on freebsd

debdrup: you used vlfrx-tools before? i use it all the time. have you done vlf study?

CCFL_Man: I was only messing around with it on a hobby level

mason: you are mistaken: CCFL_Man is the one using it, not I. ;-)

Kalten: Yeah, that's what I meant by tabfail.

ah! Did not read on prior to replying :-)

CCFL_Man: Why the sh -x out of curiosity? Can you just run it without that?

Kalten: No worries. :)

CCFL_Man: Also, if it's some funny shell behaviour, you can always try other shells. Like, pkg install bash and try /usr/local/bin/bash instead of sh

that was for debug output to see where it was failing

normally `--` means, that only filenames follow, no parameters. Normaly `-` stand in for stdout. Could the order of the parameters be a problem?

i have bash installed. using bash doesn't make a difference

maybe, but that was the order in the authors documentation which he runs it on linux

mason: He had asked for help how to debug sh, but it is not a shell script.

Oh, I see. I'd missed a bunch of scrollback.

CCFL_Man: by default it is tcsh as interactive user (and root) shell, not sh.

what do the parameters stand for?

You can also just run 'set -x' and 'set +x' to turn debugging on/off in sh (and bash)

-x mode will print how variables are being expanded.

Most often used in debugging shell scripts, I could see it being useful for debugging interactive shell settings as well.

CCFL_Man: I would write a shell script to wrapp your call anyway—it sometimes spares aou trouble with user settings in there shells. Far easier to handle that way, I think

Kalten: this is the script i wrote: bpa.st/2ICVC

Title: View paste 2ICVC

CrtxReavr: thanks. i put that in my notes

I would use /bin/sh on freeBSD. You might want to at least wait a bit after killing those programms: maybe in line 11 some `sleep 10` to be shure. Line 12: if there was no first parameter, the script would abort (at least in sh). better use `if [ ."$1" = ."start" -o ."$1" = "restart" ]; then`. line 39: should be `fi` not `f` I guess

Sorry: in line 12: forgot the `.` at ` = ."restart" ]; then`

Oh yes. . .

Kalten: no . before "restart" and '; then' after the closed bracket?

CCFL_Man: My line after the long one states . before "restart ;-) The `;` allows you to write the `then` in the same line as the `if` (I am just used to it). But the space after `[` and before `]` are necessary! Actually `[` is an alias for `test`, hence the manual page for `[` is the same as that for test(1)

one can spend quite some time to figure that space problem out :-(

Hello! As I wrote earlier in this chat, I've been reading the FreeBSD HandBook for several days now. At the moment I have a rather general question. Now the Gentoo Linux operating system is installed on my computer, I watch movies on my computer, listen to music, of course I visit the Internet (through the Firefox browser), I study the Emacs text editor (I want to keep my notes in it), I am interested in computer technologies if

possible and sometimes I play into games through the Steam game client installed through Flatpak. Can you please tell me what problems I might have if I install FreeBSD as the main operating system?

movies, music, firefox (including videos), emacs should work fine ...don't know about steam

Kit_Leopold: Probably no problems. Videochat can be a challenge maybe. If you have bluetooth peripherals, they can sometimes be problemtic. Exotic hardware (say, keyboard with uhids) can be exciting.

Oh, Steam. Steam is a perennial question.

Yesterday I started FreeBSD LiveCD on my computer, I was able to check the sound and my video card (AMD Rx 550) was detected in the system. But so far, I have not yet decided to install the system. I think we need to be better prepared.

la_mettrie: Thank you.

mason: Steam doesn't work well on FreeBSD?

Kit_Leopold: It seems challenging. I've only heard about it second-hand. My only gaming on FreeBSD is free software or Wine.

mason: Thanks for the answer.

Kit_Leopold: In short, anything that's actually free software should be a fairly safe bet.

With the exception of the Steam game client, the software on my computer is released under a free license. Thank you.

Kit_Leopold, there are some FreeBSD based pre-built desktop distributions. . . which might be good to start with.

Kit_Leopold, I have never tried steam, but I know that this port exists and is actively maintained: freshports.org/games/linux-steam-utils

Title: FreshPorts -- games/linux-steam-utils: Steam launcher for FreeBSD

Acutally, we may be down to only one: hellosystem.github.io/docs

Title: hello — helloSystem documentation

salvadore: Thanks for the link to the port, I'll definitely read it.

CrtxReavr: Thank you for the tip. I think it's best to be familiar with the underlying FreeBSD system for a better experience with the operating system.

There's an argument for that.

Kit_Leopold, this might also be very useful for you: github.com/shkhln/linuxulator-steam-utils/wiki/Compatibility

Title: Compatibility · shkhln/linuxulator-steam-utils Wiki · GitHub

it has been written by the port's maintainer

or at least edited

Sorry if I'm not clear, I'm using google translator.

My counter-point to that, however, is that I've maintained FreeBSD workstations over many years. . . using them for my professional "daily-driver."

And you can get 'em setup really nice, and doing what you like.

But. . . un-expected shit can break things.

And it can take some doing to get them right again. . . even if you're strong with FreeBSD, and the ports/package system.

A distro like helloSystem can insulate you from the majority of that, when you need a workstation/laptop to Just Work(tm).

If, after reading all the information about using the Steam game client, I decide that running Steam on a FreeBSD operating system is too complicated... I'll use a second Windows system and that's it.

You are very good people, thank you.

(Ha! Fooled them!)

TIL you can *set* the media type with ifconfig.

meena: this is how I usually test Gigbit ethernet :)

ngortheone: cool

well, anyway, i regret learning how to list infiniband devices… and if you're curious why, look up ibv_devices and how it's build

what is infiniband and why would a mere mortal need it? and where? (out of curiosity)

ngortheone: trying to refactor cloud-init network functions

infiniband is very very very low-latency networking, often used in either storage, or high-performance clusters.

so, even tho Ethernet can outperform Infiniband in speed these days, it's got nothing on it in terms of latency, and where that's important, infiniband is still often used.

TIL infiniband exists :)

I was watching Netflix's presentations about pushing 800 Gbps per core on a FreeBSD box, and the guy said that despite SCTP/QUICK and other things exist regular TCP has such an optimizied kernel impl. by now that it still outperforms new protocols.

I wonder if you can talk TCP over infiniband?

as I understand infiniband is the link-layer protocol, that requires different hardware (NICs and cables), right?

IPoIB, yes

and yes, different NICs, cables, switches

sometimes different nices :-)

nics, even

(there are nics that can do both if and eth)