00:14:01 <geckoware> has anyone had good luck with using freedns's free domains for IRC bouncers btw?
00:15:14 <geckoware> nvm
04:35:10 <dukester> noob here. How different is fbsd from nbsd and obsd? Significantly or minimally?
04:55:25 <cpet> dukester: very
04:55:52 <cpet> the nice thing is pretty much all BSD share code with each other
04:56:03 <cpet> we use nmake from netbsg and a lot of drivers from openbsd
04:56:43 <angry_vincent> it is bmake, maybe?
04:56:45 <cpet> oenbsd doesnt use non free licenses and blobs so youll never have zfs in openbsd, you have it in netbsd but its still rather broken
04:57:54 <cpet> however openbsd may take forever to get things going but ocne it does it's pretty rock solid
05:05:56 <dukester> Thanks for the brief overview!
06:44:18 <nimaje> angry_vincent, cpet: it is normally called bmake, as in bsdmake, nmake is from microsoft and is a bit diffrent from posix make
07:05:18 <angry_vincent> right
08:28:29 <Farooq[lp]> How do I reinstall ALL packages on the machine?
08:28:57 <Farooq[lp]> I thought it's "pkg upgrade -f" but it isn't
08:36:52 <Farooq[lp]> okay got it
08:37:04 <Farooq[lp]> The pkg db has been corrupted and thinks no package is installed...
09:12:39 <Farooq[lp]> another question, does FreeBSD with UFS use RAM as cache for Disk?
09:12:49 <Farooq[lp]> Like Linux does
09:56:08 <accelerat0r> Farooq[lp]: yes
09:56:16 <Farooq[lp]> accelerat0r, ty
09:58:16 <accelerat0r> Farooq[lp]: they are not " technically equivalent"  tho
09:58:33 <Farooq[lp]> accelerat0r, where can I read about the technical details?
10:01:21 <accelerat0r> Farooq[lp]:  maybe thats barried in some weird docs but I remmebered reading somethin about that in that book from marshall kirk a whileeeeee ago
10:01:34 <Farooq[lp]> hmm
10:01:36 <Farooq[lp]> okie dokie
10:02:22 <accelerat0r> Farooq[lp]: da design and implementation  of the fbsd OS if Im not mistaken
10:04:14 <Farooq[lp]> maybe read 4.4BSD book :P
10:07:55 <psycorama> as stated: "The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operationg System" (second Edition) Section 7.4 Buffer Management (page 347 onward), seem like a good start. (ISBN-13: 978-0-321-96897-5 )
10:10:26 <accelerat0r> psycorama:  that's insanely accurated to say !  I cannot even remember exactly where!  but sure there is something related
10:11:44 <psycorama> i just used the occasion to (for once) use my copy.
10:17:33 <nimaje> I don't think there is any modern OS, that doesn't have some disk cache in RAM, as free RAM is just wasted, so you want to use about everything that isn't currently used for something else for caches
11:29:37 <Jor> heya, anyone know how to get rid of linuxlator?
11:31:04 <Jor> cant remove /compat/linux/ due to device busy errors.
11:54:50 <angry_vincent> find what is using it
11:57:05 <angry_vincent> there is fstat and also procstat
11:58:36 <dukester>  /clear
12:00:21 <Jor> nvm, that was just the skeletons left by mounted compat devices. Umounting them got rid of em
12:03:35 <Jor> now which kernel modules that are not conveniently named "lin*" are linux dependencies, too?
12:03:46 <Jor> i dont want to reboot just now
13:02:01 <geckoware> hey so, i saw in the FreeBSD journal that i should use ZFS even if i'm on a single disk and take advantage of its self-healing capabilities (as seen here https://freebsdfoundation.org/our-work/journal/browser-based-edition/laptop-desktop/we-get-letters-7/), why? is ZFS way better in its self-healing capabilities than UFS?
13:03:14 <Farooq[lp]> dunno much about ZFS. But there are tons more capabilities than just self healing
13:03:58 <Reinhilde> ZFS doesn't have significantly better self-healing, but it doesn't require fsck'ing at boot to be consistent after a hard shutdown
13:04:31 <tsoome> copies=2 on single disk;)
13:05:16 <kevans_> even without copies=2, BEs are such a solid win
13:07:05 <geckoware> reinhilde: what's the advantage of that?
13:07:52 <geckoware> kevans_: what's a BE?
13:08:20 <kevans_> boot environment
13:08:57 <kevans_> i'd say see bectl(8) but the manpage is probably actually shit at explaining from the perspective of someone unfamiliarr
13:09:22 <Farooq[lp]> How can I find out which program is responsible to add an IPv6 address to me lo0?
13:09:49 <Farooq[lp]> fe80::1 gets assigned to lo0 which is the IPv6 gateway in this network
13:09:56 <Farooq[lp]> and then IPv6 stops working
13:10:24 <Farooq[lp]> Also another IPv6 addr I don't want gets assigned to the primary ethernet, which is vtnet0 on this machine
13:10:51 <Reinhilde> fe80::1 should be localhost, it shouldn't be the network's gateway
13:10:52 <nimaje> each block on zfs is checksummed, so zfs can detect on read if some file got corrupted on disk, without copies it can't heal that, but at least you detect corruption early
13:11:39 <Farooq[lp]> Reinhilde, hmmmm?
13:11:54 <Farooq[lp]> wow
13:11:56 <Farooq[lp]> how can it be?
13:13:03 <Farooq[lp]> nope. on this provider, fe80::1 is the IPv6 gateway
13:13:07 <Farooq[lp]> What do I tell them?
13:13:10 <Reinhilde> hm
13:13:11 <nimaje> pretty sure fe80::1 is the link-local gateway, so lo0 having fe80::1 is normal, but you shouldn't have default routed via fe80::1%lo0, but whatever is your main interface
13:13:12 <geckoware> kevans_: can confirm, "Boot envionments allow system changes to be tested safely, as they are selectable directly from the boot loader" says nothing, but the FreeBSD wikii did lead me to https://vermaden.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/nluug-zfs-boot-environments-reloaded-2018-11-15.pdf which starts with "zfs BE is a bootable clone/snapshot of the working system"
13:13:14 <Reinhilde> i'm looking into that for you
13:13:34 <Farooq[lp]> Reinhilde, tell me how do you look so I will do it meself next time :)
13:13:44 <Farooq[lp]> lemme search the RFCs
13:13:50 <Reinhilde> that is exactly what i'm doing actually
13:14:01 <Reinhilde> i am trying to find a source for my claim in the RFCs, because I may have lied
13:14:40 <Farooq[lp]> :)))
13:14:43 <Farooq[lp]> liar
13:14:44 <Farooq[lp]> LIAR
13:14:46 <Farooq[lp]> :P
13:14:59 <nimaje> does  netstat -rWn  really show  default fe80::1%lo0 […] lo0   for you?
13:15:50 <Reinhilde> ah, fe80::1 is actually supposed to be an admin assigned token according to the modified EUI64 scheme in question...
13:15:56 <Reinhilde> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc4291/#section-2.5.1
13:16:32 <Reinhilde> only 0::1 itself s actually necessarily loopback.
13:17:43 <geckoware> i can see somewhat why a bunch of nerds i know use ZFS
13:17:49 <geckoware> it sounds interesting
13:18:44 <Farooq[lp]> In RFC6874: "such as sending to link-local
13:18:45 <Farooq[lp]>    addresses under prefix fe80::/10"
13:19:38 <kevans> geckoware: that's really good feedback, thanks
13:21:42 <geckoware> and it seems that i  can manage a bunch of jails easier by using the snapshots features, which is good, i like low maintenance
13:22:24 <Farooq[lp]> any pastebin?
13:22:37 <Farooq[lp]> I need to send a paragraph from RFC4007
13:23:25 <geckoware> my plans are to use a FreeBSD thing into a router/web server/email/homelab thing, something which i'd feel more at ease if i separated them in jails
13:23:32 <Reinhilde> https://paste.debian.net/
13:23:35 <geckoware> if i separated the different services*
13:23:39 <Farooq[lp]> as far as I've understood, having two fe80::1 is fine if their scopes are well defined
13:23:42 <Reinhilde> my usual reco when someone needs a pastebin
13:23:53 <Reinhilde> but: for RFCs you can cite section and subsections
13:24:01 <Reinhilde> like i did with that rfc-editor.org link
13:24:10 <Farooq[lp]> Reinhilde, right. RFC4007, section 6
13:24:27 <Reinhilde> and then?
13:24:31 <Reinhilde> ah
13:24:34 <Farooq[lp]> First paragraph
13:24:40 <Reinhilde> right
13:24:42 <Reinhilde> so uh
13:24:53 <Farooq[lp]> So it should work even though fe80::1 is assigned to lo0
13:25:06 <Farooq[lp]> FreeBSD should differ between fe80::1%lo0 and the other one
13:25:30 <Reinhilde> does your provider run anything listening on fe80::1%yourLinkToThem that you could hit to find out if you are even connected to their thing
13:25:39 <nimaje> yeah, as already said, fe80:: is link local, so recheck netstat if default really goes via lo0 for you
13:25:56 <Reinhilde> wait... is your ethernet or wifi (or pppoe) to your provider set accept_rtadv ?
13:26:02 <Reinhilde> assuming they use router advertisements
13:26:41 <Farooq[lp]> https://termbin.com/i6fqa netstat says default goes through fe80::1%vtnet0
13:26:48 * kevans ponders how he can rewrite the first two sentences of bectl(8)'s DESCRIPTION
13:26:59 <Farooq[lp]> Reinhilde, it's a VPS. I've configured it statically
13:27:03 <Reinhilde> ah so it's a VM
13:27:07 <Farooq[lp]> yup
13:27:22 <Reinhilde> VPS providers are famously poorly managed
13:27:31 <Reinhilde> just, all of them
13:27:41 <Farooq[lp]> there is another thing
13:28:02 <Reinhilde> so... does pinging fe80::1%vtnet0 return anythng
13:28:34 <Farooq[lp]> wait a moment
13:29:02 <nimaje> yeah, that netstat seems fine, assuming vtnet0 is upstream internet for that VM
13:29:56 <Farooq[lp]> it is. IPv4 works
13:30:10 <geckoware> kevans_: https://wiki.freebsd.org/BootEnvironment also tells me how i can set it up, but not necessarily why i'd use it
13:36:47 <kevans> shit, i wrote that one, to
13:36:49 <kevans> too
13:39:14 <kevans> ok, maybe we'll write a better introduction for the wiki page, then we can see about the bectl(8) intro
13:39:44 <Farooq[lp]> okay. after a reboot, "ping6 google.com" works as does "ping6 fe80::1%vtnet0"
13:39:56 <Farooq[lp]> but it always stops working after ~10 minutes
13:40:18 <Farooq[lp]> let's see if this will happen now, too
13:40:20 <geckoware> wait you changed nick from kevans_ lol oops
13:43:47 <Reinhilde> ... it's my understanding that route -6 show works on freebsd
13:48:37 <geckoware> wait hold on, regdomain FCC3 and APAC = DFS for some freqs? WTF
13:49:47 <Farooq[lp]> Reinhilde, nope
13:49:53 <Farooq[lp]> FreeBSD's route hasn't got show
13:50:05 <Farooq[lp]> oh sorry
13:50:07 <Farooq[lp]> it has got show
13:50:12 <Farooq[lp]> but it doesn't show the routing table
13:50:23 <Farooq[lp]> it shows routing for a specific target
13:51:03 <Farooq[lp]> 13m uptime and still working
13:55:53 <Reinhilde> i use it when i only care about a specific target
14:00:15 <Farooq[lp]> 22m uptime and still working
14:00:22 <Farooq[lp]> how did the problem get solved? :/
14:30:03 <Farooq[lp]> okay now it has stopped working. netstat still looks fine
14:30:24 <Farooq[lp]> https://termbin.com/ujoa
14:30:56 <Farooq[lp]> ping6 to fe80::1%vtnet0 still works
14:31:30 <Farooq[lp]> route -6 shows the same as gateway
14:32:48 <nimaje> traceroute?
14:34:23 <Farooq[lp]> you mean traceroute6?
14:34:32 <Farooq[lp]> doing that now
14:37:01 <Farooq[lp]> nothing till hop 11
14:45:20 <Farooq[lp]> nothing till hop 41
14:45:21 <Farooq[lp]> ...
14:45:30 <Farooq[lp]> what's next? I guess post it on the mailing list?
20:00:23 <Farooq[lp]> okay I have posted me problem on freebsd-net mailing list
20:00:23 <Farooq[lp]> https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-net/2026-September/009504.html
20:20:18 <kevans> Farooq[lp]: ah, might be good to switch to plaintext mail for mailing lists, if you can
20:21:04 <kevans> that's kinda painful to read via the archives
20:26:05 <nxjoseph> indeed, unless you have built-in html decoder :D
21:01:10 <skered> Could be worse.  Maybe there's a pure json emailer out there.
21:11:00 <geckoware> ... email client that only handles 6 bit ASCII
21:31:47 <dukester_> My laptop has 2 HDD: (a)internal=>Linux (b)external/USB. I want to install fbsd on (b) from a USB stick. The disk partition section defaults to HDD (a). How do I tell install to use (b).
21:52:39 <dukester_> alternate_nick dukester_
22:00:54 <rtprio> dukester_: so pick to install on (likely) da0
22:01:06 <nxjoseph> i wonder if installer hides USB drives
22:03:24 <dukester_> rtprio: how?
22:04:37 <dukester_> nxjoseph: that might be so! I guess I need to manually chop up the drive then.
22:05:03 <nxjoseph> might be, if you have never given a chance to choose a disk and it just defaults to ada0
22:05:41 <dukester_> nxjoseph: that's what it did! and that drive is my internal Libux drive
22:06:43 <nxjoseph> I see.
22:07:09 <dukester_> nxjoseph: tell the boys to NOT hide any drives and give the choice where to install. :)
22:08:11 <nxjoseph> do you boot from that usb drive? it shouldn't let you see the drive you're booted off of
22:08:54 <nxjoseph> just a guess, i don't know how installer behaves
22:08:58 <dukester_> nxjoseph: I get into BIOS and select the drive I want to boot from.
22:09:43 <nxjoseph> I mean, you flashed FreeBSD iso to the usb drive, right?
22:09:54 <nxjoseph> and you want to install freebsd onto that drive
22:10:14 <nxjoseph> that might not be possible for safety
22:10:53 <dukester_> nxjoseph: but right now I'm installing FROM: a USB stick TO: external USB HDD
22:11:08 <nxjoseph> oh i see
22:12:53 <dukester_> I'll just partition manually and copy the fbsd recommended partitions
22:13:42 <dukester_> i hope that it's in the handbook somewhere though
22:16:02 <nxjoseph> im afraid it doesn't, just for guided installer. there's alternative sources though
22:18:18 <dukester_> nxjoseph: I wa afraid of that!
22:20:17 <nxjoseph> can you confirm that external HDD is detected by FreeBSD?
22:23:33 <dukester_> I did. Can't now-I'm in Linux. I dropped selected to partition manually, chose the correct drive but got stuck on how to chop it up.
22:24:01 <dukester_> The manual partitioning does see the USB drive
22:26:40 <nxjoseph> hmm, interesting, it's hard for me to imagine over no graphic, sorry