00:01:30 <s2r> I fixed it temporarily by adding an entry in hosts to pkg0.nyi.freeebsd.org IP for pkg.freebsd.org
00:50:44 <spork_css_> Just wanted to check, it's not possible to ktrace from a host to a jail with jexec, right? Especially if the jail is a much older release...
01:47:33 <kerneldove> so i pkg install squid, no problem. but pkg -r <jail root> install squid and it errors "install: nknown group squid" for /var/squid, /var/squid/cache, etc
01:47:45 <kerneldove> does pkg -r have bug or? 14.4
01:54:00 <spork_css_> what about "pkg -j yourjail install squid"
01:54:14 <spork_css_> I don't think just changing the root is going to make it aware of in-jail users.
01:54:50 <spork_css_> see the "pkg" manpage and the "-j" option.
01:56:10 <kerneldove> lemme try
02:03:42 <kerneldove> fuck
02:03:47 <kerneldove> spork_css_ did you not see me say 14.4?
02:03:52 <kerneldove> -j is 15 only
02:05:24 <spork_css_> yeah, I just feel like it's been in there forever. I tested on an old 13.x host, so.... no idea.
02:05:36 <spork_css_> all I know is from my reading of the manpage,
02:05:40 <spork_css_> -r would not work
02:05:46 <kerneldove> https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=pkg&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+14.4-RELEASE&format=html
02:05:49 <kerneldove> -j isn't in there
02:06:20 <yakubin> pkg supports -j since forever.
02:06:21 <spork_css_> again, can't comment on that
02:06:26 <spork_css_> WFM
02:06:51 <spork_css_> just type "man pkg" and then "/" and then "-j".
02:11:01 <spork_css_> https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=pkg&apropos=0&sektion=8&manpath=FreeBSD+14.4-RELEASE+and+Ports&format=html
02:11:13 <mason> kerneldove: Run "pkg" and see what it offers for options.
02:12:34 <kerneldove> hm from command line pkg shows -j is an option. dunno what's up with man page site then
02:12:57 <mason> Man page on an installed 14.4 system will also show the option.
02:13:41 <mason> kerneldove: Oh, you selected section... 0? It's in section 8.
02:14:26 <kerneldove> when i run sudo pkg install cowsay, works. when i run sudo pkg -j myjail install cowsay, it gives permission denied and fails with error updating repositories. why?
02:14:33 <kerneldove> i just used whatever was default selected
02:15:12 <mason> kerneldove: I tend to chroot in instead, as jails can have some funny limitations. I've never dug in. I just pivot to something fairly simple that works.
02:17:04 <kerneldove> it must be trying to run the pkg from within the jail, and it's hitting the firewall
02:17:22 <kerneldove> that's a dumb way of running because not all jails have public network
02:17:27 <kerneldove> that's why i was using pkg -r
02:17:40 <kerneldove> but so then pkg -r fails with other reasons, ffs what a cluster
02:17:55 <mason> Yeah, everything's a bunch of tradeoffs. :/
02:18:24 <kerneldove> well how the f have jails not matured to where you can properly install packages in them from the host system?
02:18:37 <kerneldove> 20 year old tech that has these basic gaps in lifecycle? embarassing tbh
02:18:55 <mason> kerneldove: Dunno. I chroot in. Works reliably.
02:19:06 <kerneldove> what's that look like?
02:19:18 <mason> Shut the jail down, chroot in, install packages.
02:19:47 <mason> It's probably inelegant, but I'll take inelegant if it's boring and incident-free.
02:20:28 <mason> As I've noted previously, I'm sliding towards ever-simpler lately.
02:24:20 <kerneldove> ya especially with so much sht half baked here
02:24:55 <mason> Oh, I wouldn't say that. FreeBSD is very reliable in a number of ways that other systems can't touch.
02:25:28 <kerneldove> no offense but don't care what you'd say or not. the issue i just ran into proves what i said
02:26:21 <spork_css_> OK, well for starters, if you want the manpage for the system you're currently on, you run "man" on that system and you will have the correct manpage.
02:27:26 <spork_css_> It's much less work to type "man pkg" than to go to a browser and google it.
02:27:55 <spork_css_> and many commands will just spit out a bunch of options if run with no options. This isn't poor OS design, this is just how unix is.
02:29:02 <spork_css_> maybe the "-c" option will work for your setup, not sure. But trying to use a system (pkg) that relies on the internet to fetch packages on something without internet is a choice and an edge case, IMO.
02:29:20 <kerneldove> spork_css_ cool so how to install pkgs into a jail that doesn't have networking? because -r and -j ain't it
02:29:40 <kerneldove> should be able to install pkg into a jail from host system
02:29:40 <spork_css_> no idea, I've never had a need to do it.
02:29:51 <kerneldove> so every jail you use has inet?
02:29:53 <mason> kerneldove: Setting up NAT for them so they can reach out isn't a terrible idea.
02:29:56 <spork_css_> yes
02:30:04 <kerneldove> lol nice security model bro
02:30:23 <spork_css_> do you want help or do you want to yell at people that aren't getting paid to do this?
02:30:34 <kerneldove> yell? emotional much?
02:30:47 <mason> It's a reasonable characterization.
02:30:56 <spork_css_> OK, insult people, how's that?
02:32:54 <spork_css_> (and insulting people because you can't figure something out is kind of... emotional?)
02:33:34 <kerneldove> stop obsessing
02:33:51 <spork_css_> ?
02:34:45 <mason> kerneldove: It sounds like a reasonable time to take a break. You're not making yourself happier. Maybe write up a bug with details of the failures you see with pkg -j and/or pkg -r when you come back, so something productive comes out of it.
02:35:53 <Reinhilde> `less` has a poorly-discoverable interface
02:39:45 <mason> Reinhilde: If you try --help it's pretty good, but -h could be more helpful.
02:45:35 <spork_css_> decent manpage as well (and thankfully unlike most linux distros, typing "more" doesn't give you an ancient "more")
02:49:15 <spork_css_> sad state of affairs here, one of my old junker PCs just freezes midway through the BIOS device iteration when a bootable USB key is in there that it doesn't like (which includes all FreeBSD memstick images)...
02:49:51 <spork_css_> no BIOS updates, some hints in old forums that maybe gparted can whack it into shape, but it does have an optical drive...
02:50:04 <spork_css_> so, behold this jank:  https://i.imgur.com/sKCfxEv.jpeg
02:52:07 <mason> I have one of those, that needs two plugs to get enough power to burn.
02:52:45 <spork_css_> yeah, honestly kind of shocked that current macos a) recognized it as a burner b) still has code to burn discs
03:04:30 <kerneldove> -c and -j both fail trying to install pkg to a jail that doesn't have inet
03:05:02 <kerneldove> and -r leaks shit across the jail boundary into the host and installs fail (squid)
03:05:05 <kerneldove> junk
03:05:54 <mason> kerneldove: Wait, if these don't have Internet access, how are you supplying packages?
03:06:21 <kerneldove> host has inet, jails don't
03:07:41 <mason> Mm. All the tools assume you have internet access. I'd probably set up an on-disk repository, maybe one that you nullmount in, and set up your repo config as needed to accomodate that.
03:08:04 <mason> Like, set up the config per-jail, so the jail expects packages in a particular directory.
03:08:14 <mason> That can be a read-only mount from the host.
03:08:38 <mason> The pkg tools expect networking.
03:08:51 <mason> That shot past me in the earlier discussion.
03:10:53 <mason> Use pkg fetch on the host to get the things. I haven't done this particular variation, so I'm not sure what pkg wants on the repo side.
03:11:17 <mason> You're going to need to treat these as being air-gapped in various ways.
03:12:24 <mason> Frankly I'd set up NAT so they can reach out. There's not a ton you can do on a system with no networking nowadays, so it's unusual to have something with no network.
03:12:50 <mns> kerneldove: how have you setup your jails? I have jails but do not have pkg setup inside of the jails.  I use 'pkg -r' every day on a 14.4R system everyday, no issues.
03:14:01 <nesta> :o
03:14:16 <mns> kerneldove:  for j in /usr/local/jails/containers/*; do  printf "\nUpgrading jail: ${j##*/}\n=========================\n"; pkg -r ${j} update && pkg -r ${j} upgrade; done
03:14:24 <mns> I run that every day
03:14:26 <mns> no issues.
03:15:40 <spork_css_> depends on what you're installing - in kerneldove's case, he's installing squid, and that needs to add a user.
03:15:57 <kerneldove> mns try installing squid to a jail with pkg -r and tell me if it gives error "install: unknown group squid"?
03:16:03 <kerneldove> ya
03:16:05 <spork_css_> I suspect that fails because it's not chrooted into the jail
03:16:28 <mns> spork_css_: I install lighttpd, and that needs a user as well, as I recall.
03:16:48 <mns> kerneldove: let me try that and see what happens
03:17:20 <spork_css_> mns: "-r" just sets an alternate root, "-j" and "-c" both chroot into the jail.
03:17:49 <spork_css_> If your jail had the lighty user in there before doing the upgrades, I'd guess that might work? I don't know.
03:18:20 <spork_css_> I don't have a single jail that doesn't at least have internet access via NAT
03:19:01 <spork_css_> anyhow, off to walk a dog, good luck, all
03:19:05 <mason> o/
03:19:37 <mns> spork_css_,  kerneldove:  I was able to install squid using the command that kerneldove provided, no issue.  It went ahead and created the squid user inside my jail.
03:19:52 <kerneldove> wtf
03:20:03 <kerneldove> does jail have internet? using pkg -r from host?
03:20:55 <kerneldove> what freebsd version?
03:20:56 <mns> kerneldove: doing it from host:   sudo pkg -r /usr/local/jails/containers/lighty install squid
03:21:02 <mns> kerneldove: 14.4
03:21:07 <kerneldove> hm same as me
03:21:27 <kerneldove> and your extracting squid line wasn't followed by any install: unknown group squid stuff?
03:21:38 <mns> nope
03:21:42 <kerneldove> host running zfs?
03:22:24 <mns> yup
03:22:28 <kerneldove> not sure if it'd matter but is it a thick jail with its own base?
03:22:50 <mns> kerneldove: I am running a thinjail but I don't think that should matter in this scenario
03:23:16 <mns> how do you have your jail setup?  which directory are you pointing to?
03:23:48 <kerneldove> i'm running the pkg -r /jail/jails/myjail/ install squid during bsdinstall, not after the post-install reboot, not sure if that matters
03:24:37 <kerneldove> jail fs was created with zfs reate -o mountpoint=/jail zroot/jail
03:25:08 <kerneldove> and ln -s /mnt/jail /jail before that
03:25:26 <mns> what's under /jail/jails/myjail,  is it usr/, etc/, dev/, etc. ?
03:25:34 <kerneldove> yep
03:26:19 <mns> it might be because of bsdinstall, but I can't think of a reason why.
03:27:32 <mns> I have networking in the jail, but I do not have pkg setup inside the jail.  Everything in terms of package management gets done from the host.
03:27:50 <mns> kerneldove: when you run your pkg command, did it also say that perl would be installed?
03:28:12 <kerneldove> yep
03:29:42 <mns> What's the error you get?
03:31:14 <kerneldove> got a working pastie site i can use?
03:31:57 <mason> bpaste.net works
03:32:23 <kerneldove> https://paste.debian.net/hidden/adb30944
03:33:35 <mns> let me check mine again
03:35:19 <mns> never mind,  I got the same messages as you did.  I was checking if the user got created inside the jail, which it did.
03:35:51 <mns> I didn't look at the messages from pkg properly as it prints out a bunch of messages after the install
03:35:55 <kerneldove> ok now we're getting somewhere. so don't you think freebsd should have a way to install pkgs into a jail without the jail itself needing to do the networking?
03:41:17 <mns> I don't think its' the networking in this case.  The package got installed, just that the post-install setup doesn't get done properly. /var/squid and the other directories get created, but when the ownership is supposed to be given, the post-install script is using the host's /etc/passwd instead of the one rooted at /jail/jails/myjail.  I think a bug report would be good to fix it.
03:42:00 <kerneldove> that wasn't my point. my point was that there's no way to propertly install pkgs to a jail, from host
03:43:16 <kerneldove> (without the jail having internet, which is an unnecessary security hole)
03:43:45 <mason> kerneldove: Did you see where I mentioned null mounting a repository in from the host?
03:47:54 <mns> kerneldove: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/1a7155e6
03:48:18 <mns> Use -c instead of -r
03:49:32 <kerneldove> mns tried -c, doesn't work. fails with transient dns resolution error or smth
03:50:00 <kerneldove> mason no but that's a dirty hack
03:50:58 <mason> kerneldove: You're talking about security, but you've evidently never run airgapped systems.
03:51:02 <mns> kerneldove: look at my output, I got no such errors,  the directories all have the right permissions and ownership, the user gets created,  all inside the jail, but done from the host.
03:52:03 <kerneldove> i'll try again but i know it didn't work for me
03:52:09 <mns> kerneldove: I deleted the previous install of the package in the jail, removed both squid and perl, and then did a fresh install from the host.