09:32:06 <amlor> windows vs mac? vs.
09:40:07 <kona> lets see, so far we have freebsd, visual studio, gentoo, windows, and mac in the arena. i'm partial to bsd but just don't make me use visual studio.
09:42:49 <bsdrobert> try code-server
09:43:06 <bsdrobert> works great with freebsd imo
15:39:28 <polarian> I think I might be the youngest one in this channel looking at the backlog :/
15:40:05 <bsdrobert> thanks for making me feel old
15:42:57 <polarian> lol
15:43:09 <polarian> (2005 btw!)
15:43:28 <polarian> I missed the golden age of unix
15:44:36 <bsdrobert> i was 15 years old when i first came to #freebsd and that was back on freenode. im now 40.
15:45:29 <polarian> yikes
15:45:33 <polarian> 25 years!!!
15:45:35 <polarian> nice!!
15:47:00 <bsdrobert> thx
15:48:18 <polarian> I can just about remember when freenode went *poof*
15:48:55 <bsdrobert> it was really great, once upon a time
15:50:59 <rtprio> i was on undernet #freebsd in... 1998 or so?
15:51:00 <rtprio> man
15:54:27 * polarian feels really young 
15:55:24 <bsdrobert> enjoy it!
15:56:02 <polarian> I dont :(
15:56:06 <polarian> being poor sucks :p
15:57:30 <bsdrobert> the rat race ain't much fun either.
15:58:07 <mns> Agreed, the rat race is not fun
16:04:47 <daemoneye> Working in tech sometimes is a ride on the struggle bus... There are days I am tempted to run off and live in a cabin in the middle of the woods
16:05:05 <bsdrobert> i'm where daemoneye is.
16:05:52 <bsdrobert> programming is fun, open source is fun, but the corporate tech industry is a pile of crap
16:06:00 <daemoneye> I think near the Hiawatha National Forest would be fun
16:06:16 <mns> bsdrobert: spot on.
16:06:18 <rtprio> daemoneye: i would love that
16:06:26 <rtprio> but without working in tech i couldn't afford to do it
16:06:54 <daemoneye> Yeah, that is how I feel about the sysadmin world... The administration side is great, helping people and seeing them become happy again is great. Dealing with Corporate tech needs work
16:08:23 <daemoneye> rtprio: having been there, the winters can get tough though
16:08:56 <rtprio> i also wish i had a wood stove
16:09:11 <daemoneye> Oh, yes! A wood stove is amazing!
16:22:26 <mns> All that age talk, I was in the corporate world during the Unix wars and AT&T lawsuit.  I predate Net/2 / 386BSD / FreeBSD.  I was so excited to download the tarballs using my 14.4Kbps dial-up modem lol
16:23:40 <mns> That thing kept downloading all night long ... the good old days
16:24:10 <rtprio> what about dd'ing dozens of floppies
16:24:54 <bsdrobert> i was blessed to have 4.4-RELEASE sent to me on CD by some american dude on IRC. I max'ed out at 1kb/s.
16:26:23 <daemoneye> I remember doing a linux install back in 2010 with a friend on a 1995 laptop... Intial install was over floppy, then we managed to find a payphone at our local community college and was able to apply updates over the payphone connection.
16:26:42 <bsdrobert> those were the days
16:27:42 <daemoneye> Oh yeah. I would love to get back into that kind of thing of getting older hardware running again.
16:28:19 <daemoneye> Back when I was doing software development before becoming a sysadmin, my biggest source of enjoyment was in how to make code as small and efficent as possible.
16:29:38 <bsdrobert> why not devops? best of both worlds
16:30:49 <daemoneye> I might, especially if I can be a part of a movement to bring back small and efficent code. With the cost of hardware going up due to AI data centers, I think being able to do more with less is a move that should happen.
16:33:34 <mns> daemoneye: you would think that, but corporate cares more about quick turn arounds rather than proper solutions.
16:34:20 <daemoneye> That they do and to quote Bender from Futurama: "Dang the expense!"
16:39:37 <bsdrobert> you need find a non-slop company and thats hard nowadays
16:40:16 <daemoneye> It really is. Perhaps a non-profit that does open source stuff.
16:40:27 <daemoneye> And those are rare to find.
16:40:51 <bsdrobert> yup
16:41:01 <rtprio> impossible to avoid forever
16:41:43 <bsdrobert> there's levels to it. some companies are literally just slop factories nowadays. AI-assisted and slop are not the same for me.
16:43:08 <bsdrobert> plus people who dont really understand or appreciate the craft are usually the ones pushing the buttons.
16:43:09 <rtprio> tis true
16:43:49 <daemoneye> Yeah. I remember working on some open source projects about a decade ago and it is sad to see how much slop there is these days
16:47:53 <daemoneye> Alright, I should get some lunch in me.
16:48:03 <bsdrobert> bon apetit
16:48:09 <daemoneye> Thanks!
21:16:56 <karolyi> daemoneye: I'm right there (innawoods living). got my offgrid solar and starlink, especially useful since we're about to have power outages in hungary. also, I've started out with FreeBSD 6.2
21:17:16 <karolyi> brb doing 15.1-RELEASE-p2 update
21:18:24 <karolyi> fuck corporate IT stuff
21:25:31 <karolyi> <tada.wav>
21:29:06 <dkeav> i think i started with 4.8
21:29:10 <dkeav> :/
21:29:23 <dkeav> time for an ibuprofen...
21:29:49 <rtprio> 3.3 or 3.4, lol
21:30:03 <dkeav> what were the dinosaurs like?
22:03:58 <rtprio> that 3 -> 4 upgrade was rough
22:04:10 <rtprio> mostly because i didn't read /usr/src/UPDATING
22:05:00 <Reinhilde> power outages, karolyi ? what's up? public safety power shutoffs?
22:05:57 <dkeav> we're supposed to read UPDATING?
22:06:22 <dkeav> thats like saying we're supposed to read the included instructional pamphlet, pfffft straight to the trash
22:06:49 <rtprio> yep
22:10:28 <Reinhilde> ah, the Donau's gone dry https://dailynewshungary.com/historic-heatwave-drought-paks-npp-industry/
22:26:57 <karolyi> Reinhilde: yeap
22:27:14 <karolyi> supposedly the power plant will be stopped
22:27:45 <karolyi> kein Atomkraftwerk für Ungarn
23:53:07 <daemoneye> karolyi: Ohh, very nice!