00:13:20 Semi fixed by deleting drive structure and recreate it using my winxp vm 00:13:33 1 million years later: Steam running, working on running a game :D 00:13:59 but long format not working.. only quick 00:17:46 it's a vm right? 00:21:24 https://pastebin.ca/7cnWYS9eRY 00:21:38 cant build security/p5-Crypt-URandom 00:21:52 no clue why the url is forbidden 00:21:58 anyone else can reproduce? 00:25:14 `oops I meant to put this into -ports 00:25:34 how_dare_you.gif 00:27:44 rdr: yes 00:28:15 what's the deal with this vm then? you want to recover some files or... just "wipe" the virtual drive? 00:33:41 what? I just mounted the hard drive in it 00:34:22 then used windows disk manger for ntfs formating 00:35:14 oh i'm not sure what you're trying to do sorry 00:39:09 What is the proper way to make sure $PATH is sane for a RC script? Because apparently /usr/local/bin is not in the path by default. 00:42:06 yep, it's gone, 00:42:42 VVelox: like any script, `export PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin` near the top 00:43:13 Giving up on ntfs 00:43:35 no idea why you might have been putting up with it in the first place 00:43:43 it's not a great filesystem when you could use ZFS 00:43:55 nearly anything is better the ntfs 00:45:30 rtprio: yeah, not fond of having to resort to that given it can exist in multiple paths 00:45:54 honestly frustrating that it is 2026 and that is not in the default path despite 00:46:30 if you're the one writing the script, and it could exist in multiple places, then just use the full path 00:46:59 VVelox: i suspect you look at any script in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/ it's going to have a very similar line to the one i just pasted 00:49:59 rtprio: zfs on 500gb which I need every byte in it!? 00:55:52 ok 00:56:05 or you could get a drive from after 2005 01:12:34 "mkntfs completed successfully. Have a nice day." best sentence saw for days :D 01:13:43 Just needed to use dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/da0 bs=1M count=10 after gpart destory 01:14:20 and leave few mb free when partitions 01:14:52 also NTFS_USE_UBLIO=0 01:49:28 Anybody using 15.1 with an Intel Axxx? 02:20:19 Macer: I'm not actively using the wifi at the moment, but I have an AX201 in the NUC on my desk. Firmware installs fine with fwget and sysctl net.wlan.devices shows iwlwifi0. 02:21:32 i've been daily driving an ax210 since before 15.0 came out, if that counts 02:24:43 Sorry I was talking about an Intel arc axxx 02:24:51 The gpu. 03:40:58 mosaid, I know we joke about dd being the disk destroyer but drives shouldn't actually be destroyed by use of dd on them, just the contents of the drives. It's really a drive content destroyer. You just need to write a new partition table and partition the drive again. 03:46:02 dd has saved me more drive fix time than probably any other tool out there. 03:47:45 I use dd quite a bit. It is a good utility. Maps low level system things to the command line. Nothing else is as general purpose. 03:48:57 Slowly over time the things I want are now being incorporated into other tools. pv for example now has a flag pv --direct-io which is new which allows me to use it when before I would have had to use dd iflag=fullblock oflag=sync,direct 03:49:16 Just for one example. 03:51:00 Sure. 03:51:14 But, pv isn't in base. 03:51:27 dd is like vi. Always there. 03:51:38 Once you know it, you're in good hands and don't need anything else. 04:22:51 True, it is not in base. On any system I am working interactively though it is rare for it to be a base only system. I'll have installed something from ports/pkgs. 05:46:07 spam 06:24:56 how do I find out what is trying to run freebsd-update every day at 03:00 ? Since I've swithed to pkgbase, this is no longer needed and it keeps sending me email from Cron, but there is no cron entry I can find for it 06:26:17 duh! never mind. I forgot about /etc/crontab 06:27:54 horray 07:16:47 polarian: yes, you need to set up the console at the boot prompt with set tty com0 then stty com0 115200 07:17:40 (#bhyve is always the better place to ping me for such things) 09:45:45 fellas... has anyone in here issued the 'freebsd-update rollback' command? 11:54:31 vortexx: yeah already remembered, but thx for the response :) 15:00:12 hello. i have an old T530 laptop with kde/plasma6 which is working well and i updated it from 15.0 to 15.1 using freebsd-update this morning. after the update, when starting kde, mouse and keyboard input no longer work...i can't even switch tty using ctrl+alt+2 anymore 15:00:50 i ssh to the laptop and did pkg upgrade -f but that didn't fix it. only way i can get it working, is if i select kernel.old and boot back in to 15.1-REL 15:01:10 sorry, i meant to say i updated it from 15.1-REL to 15.1-p1 15:02:08 i also tried external usb keyboard/mouse on 15.1-p1 and those do not work either. it's like the whole input subsystem just stopped responding on 15.1-p1 15:03:50 i have another laptop, an x280 also with plasma/kde6 which uses pkg-base, and i updated this one to 15.1-p1 a few days ago and it's been working fine. it's only the T530 that's having this issue. i see there was a lot of security fixes in 15.1-p1, i'm not sure which one would impact input 15:03:54 any thoughts? 15:05:01 polarian: yw 15:14:36 https://www.phoronix.com/news/FreeBSD-16-Goes-GPL-Free 15:49:43 YESSSSSSS 15:49:46 FINALLY 15:49:48 GPL IS GONE! 15:49:59 I will celebrate by sending this to a Linux friend of mine who loves AGPLv3!! 16:01:43 ok, seems like the input issue is related to wayland somehow. plasma6 with x11 session, input is working...but when using wayland session, it's not working 16:02:08 in 15.1-p1 16:33:07 CorvetteZR1: you start kde from the command line? 16:57:22 well then 16:57:35 i guess at some point i should probably swap to and learn how to use pkgbase :/ 16:57:45 <3 freebsd-update 4ever 17:33:06 * CrtxReavr likes src updates. 17:34:13 I haven't looked into it yet, so therefor I ask here instead. Is it supported to convert to pkgbase? 17:44:00 CrtxReavr: I've been updating from src as well. Built once and installed on multple devices. 17:47:02 rtprio, yes 17:48:13 i use this command: /usr/local/bin/ck-launch-session /usr/local/lib/libexec/plasma-dbus-run-session-if-needed /usr/local/bin/startplasma-wayland 17:49:17 when i try to load plasma-wayland session with sddm, it crashes back to sddm login. if i log into plasma-x11 from sddm, it works fine. that's a seperate issue that's been happening to me since 15.0, the input thing started happening today after the update to 15.1-p1 17:52:37 and the sddm thing happens on the x280 too (which does not have the input problem) 18:06:40 What's so great about the loss of the GPL? Doesn't really benefit anyone except corporations. 18:07:34 Or anyone else using FBSD as the base of their projects. 18:07:51 How does the GPL stop them doing that? 18:09:35 If you want to close-source your project, you cannot? 18:10:07 It's not something I'm a fan of, but it is a thing. 18:10:11 And who does that benefit? Primarily corporations. 18:11:10 Well, sure. O,r any small developer trying to build something special to them that they can sell and support to make a living. 18:11:48 The thing is, corproations dont give a damn about the small developer. They'll drive over them in a second. 18:12:06 Corporations have already wiped out the GPL licensed stuff. The only benefit they have now is that they no longer have to maintain their own code to replace the previously GPL-licensed software (which they will since it's already in place.) 18:12:48 bsdrobert: Of course they will. 18:14:10 I think corporations should pay for open source software. They make millions and even billions off the back of people who do it for free and earn nothing, then give nothing back. It's not a fair system. So I don't rejoice at this news at all. 18:16:24 bsdrobert: I think you have a slight misunderstanding of the way fully open-sourced software works in this case. Many companies *DO* give back if they find the software/OS useful enough. That's usually what funds a majority of the project(s). 18:16:44 No that's not true. I speak from personal experience. 18:17:02 If FBSD is completely open for corporations, it makes it more desirable for them to use and pass along as their own product. In return, they fund the development of said product so they can continue to make money. 18:17:35 It might work that way for freebsd, but for the small developer it does. They take it run, make money, and not so much as a thanks. 18:18:28 Yes, there are plenty of businesses that will take advantage of this. But, most successful-ish companies will contribute back. Whether it be code, funding, marketing, etc... 18:19:06 bsdrobert: That happens to everyone. That's why every corporation is in copyright court every day of the year. 18:19:52 Well, this is why I switched to BSL. I give a waiver for small businesses, personal use, non-profits, charities, things like that, but if youre making millions, you gotta pay. That's where I found my peace. 18:20:14 Don't get me wrong. I understand your concern (or lack thereof) of the GPL deletion. But, it's really a "six in one hand, half a dozen in the other" situation. 18:20:59 bsdrobert: And that's fine! It's exactly why multiple licenses exist. :) 18:21:15 Indeed 18:21:42 Are you using FBSD as the base of your product you're charging money for? 18:21:57 ... from the millionaires? 18:22:30 If not, well, now you can. 18:22:52 True, that's a good point. 18:23:20 It is *FREE* BSD, after all. 18:24:24 For FreeBSD it makes sense, for any small time developer, I'd recommend protecting yourself against exploitation. 18:27:57 If you're trying to make money, yes. If you're just contributing to the open-source community, there's no need for protection. 18:28:31 But, again, it's all dealer's choice and what you choose is fine. 18:28:34 This is an age-old debate, but it might be better had in #freebsd-social. 18:28:55 mason: Very true! 18:29:12 I'm not in #*-social, though. So, I'll just stop here. :) 18:29:48 I do have something FBSD-related to ask the channel, though... 18:29:48 Ah, I already commented in there. It's not bad lately. 18:30:58 Regarding what people are using for system/network monitoring, does anyone have recommendations for something that's either FBSD-specific or at least works well with FBSD? 18:31:23 ek: Any of the usual things should work. Nagios is popular. 18:32:08 I've tried Nagios (works fine, but lacks history/graphs), Monit (didn't work too well), Icinga2 (a disaster), Zabbix (looks nice but is wildly bloated and very difficult to configure). 18:32:59 Prometheus and Grafana (currently using) seem to work well, but also seem a little bloated and resource hungry. 18:33:40 Nothing terrible. But, once you get into Telegraph, Redis, Graphite, etc.. and have to store all kinds of random stuff for N days/years, it seems to really get slow. 18:34:22 mason: Yeah. I'm also still using Nagios in the background. I actually really liked Nagios with pnp and/or nagiosgraph back in the day. But, those died with PHP7 it looks like. 18:34:58 Hrm, I'd never used either but the notion of history and graphs is nice. I've only ever used it in the "what's red on the board" sense. 18:35:12 I got to like LogicMontor but that's commercial. 18:40:54 uptime kuma for telling me if stuff is borked, victora logs for logging, will deploy victoria metrics when I have time. i still have a very custom collectd + riemann setup. 18:41:44 got a kernel panic, at the db> prompt does `dump` not do a minidump by default? 18:42:03 it looks like its trying to dump all the RAM, and that won't fit in the configured swap on this system 19:27:57 dch: how far off are you? you probably want dumpon_flags="-Z" 19:28:29 (zstd, though there's also -z for gzip if that's your cup of tea) 20:17:49 kevans: thanks, I think I set that last time, lets reboot and see if I get anything 20:18:02 if not I will set up a netdump server 21:40:28 @mason / @rwp - just a late thank you for the amd/nvidia info above, very helpful - I do want to try to get into some gaming that's newer than like PS1 era stuff eventually, and I like the idea of SteamOS for that so I want to put a *little* (is that even possible now, lol?) money into a decent used card, but a lot of games I'm eyeing still are quite old. 21:44:16 @rwp - also that tip about understanding IPv6 and what the devs were thinking ("Power to the Client!") is really helpful. I find I can figure things out much better when I know the headspace ppl who built it were in at the time. 21:47:17 I learned enough IPv6 to get a block for one of my jobs, setup BGP with multiple transit providers, get it going for some DSL(!) customers and others, but then we had like zero people clamoring for it, couldn't get it at home without a tunnel, and forgot so, so much. 22:16:28 spork_css: Steam is always a challenge on FreeBSD. pertho might have some notes to share. 22:17:14 whatever PC desktop I throw together is going to be multi-boot, so I was hoping to just do SteamOS... 22:18:54 spork_css: i spent pretty much all of yesterday trying to get linux-steam working :) 22:19:30 SteamOS is basically an immutable Arch distro, which is what i'm using with KDE Linux 22:20:19 as for FreeBSD and linux-steam, i got it working after much work with Gemini, but then i accidentally hit "hibernate" and now my FreeBSD drive is unbootable :D 22:20:55 spork_css: Alright, dual boot would solve the issue. 22:23:50 Also, rdr - thanks. You've saved me some time trying. :P 22:30:20 yeah mason it's possible to get it working, but Gemini literally gave up on making Sonic Mania (one game i tested) have palatable audio (esp. music) 22:30:59 it was actually quite funny because i said "NO LINUXISM" when i started the AI chat thing, and it started spitting out Linuxisms then apologized for "hallucinating" 22:31:48 I wouldn't trust a chatbot as far as I could throw it for any of this. 22:35:48 Gemini is notorious for halluncinations, and halluncinations can be reducted by connecting the LLM to trusted sources. 22:44:00 I like how they use the benign term "hallucination" for when their product fails. 22:44:20 i was suprised it admitted that it did that 22:44:27 like, used the term 22:45:57 It was programmed 22:48:04 right, it's just usually used as a derogatory term for AI mistakes 22:52:13 My FreeBSD system crashed with a segfault... "no, FreeBSD hallucinated and thought it had access to memory it didn't" 22:53:30 lol :D 23:14:40 halluncinations generally occur when the answer is not known or in its training data, you can greatly reduce this problem by connecting the llm to external sources that dont rely on its training data, or supplement it. so no i dont think the product is failing. the solution is to avoid relying on training data alone. 23:21:34 lol lmao 23:24:08 This is just a fact. You can connect an LLM to the freebsd handbook and and man pages, and have it _only_ source answers from those sources. Then the chance of a halluncination is reduced by orders of magnitude. Not impossible, but highly unlikely. 23:25:42 the term "hallucination", like many other weird tech/AI-isms is more meant to make the failure sound better than it is and to perpetuate the myth that the LLMs "think" and are vaguely sentient. 23:26:04 which is kind of essential to the overall marketing blitz/haze/propaganda 23:26:26 So if you point it to factual data, it won't fail to provide factual responses. Got it. 23:27:19 Yes, and you can write your own system prompt, which the LLM will generally abide by. What you see on chatgpt.com or whatever is just LLMs for the masses. You can specialize them, and theyre much more useful. 23:27:40 ai sucks. I don't use it. 23:27:45 bsdrobert: The trick is all the destructive, immoral training prior to your feeding in the handbook. 23:27:56 Sorry, "ai". 23:29:05 Well, at least understanding how they work a little bit is useful to know. Theyre programmable tools. You can extend them, with code (tool calls). You can define the rules (system prompt). 23:30:02 mason: yep, "The FreeBSD handbook made reference to the term 'master'. This is white supremecy term is offensive to PoC and minority groups. I've hallucinated the new term 'primary' so no feel-feels have been hurt" 23:30:40 There's an LLM for that type too. It's called Grok. 23:33:16 Grok goes woke sometimes and I love that, but also feel a little bad for the staff that has to deal with it. 23:33:54 luser: We were on the same page until the racist tourettes. :/ 23:34:06 Call me master 23:38:04 mason: yes, there is a moral argument to be made about that but mostly around copyright and pollution. However, you can train your own model too, and it can be done in accordance with your ethics. 23:40:18 That's where SLM (small language models) are becoming popular, and theyre generally hyper-focused on a certain task or area. 23:40:29 bsdrobert: From scratch? Because no one does that. My understanding is that... well. I'll actually finish this in -social. 23:40:50 yes, lets go there 23:43:36 master by itself to refer to something at the top hierarchically with regards to tech isn't an issue IMO. the problem is that it was used with the term "slave" in regards to drives--which is an unnecessary association with historically horrible connotations 23:45:26 i'm surprised connectors haven't undergone a change in naming conventions. refering to connectors as eithe male or female and describing how many times those connectors can be connected before wear and tear results in failure as "mating cycle" 23:50:15 lol. bsdrobert is "ai" 23:51:05 this seems a #freebsd-social discussion 23:52:54 you are how your name is spoken. 23:53:47 How many cycles did that take you? 23:54:50 try find a better use of your time than being a troll on irc. 23:56:53 Take it so -social. 23:56:58 s/so/to 23:59:33 you forgot to terminate your regular expression too. clearly AI halluncinating.