00:38:38 i did a pretty basic install of a freebsd vm in a freebsd guest. when i start it up, it says route: message indicates error: file exists, add host 127.0.0.1: gateway lo0 fib 0: route already in table, route: message indicates error: file exists, add host ::1: gateway lo0 fib 0: route alraedy in table. why am i getting that? i didn't even configure 00:38:39 any network settings 00:38:50 14.4 fwiw 00:55:57 just did a stock freebsd install, same errors on startup. wtf why does a clean 14.4 install error on startup 00:58:32 Looks like it's trying to add a route that already exists. 01:00:42 mason, Did you make progress understanding the missing sshd-auth new file? I am hitting it now with one bare metal system. Starting sshd. /usr/libexec/sshd-auth does not exist or is not executable /etc/rc.d/sshd: WARNING: failed to start sshd 01:00:52 ya but why does a stock 14.4 install ship with errors output right to the startup msg? 01:18:36 It looks more like warnings than an error. Just wondering if you configure a network interface and hostname, does the symptom subside? 01:21:57 no still happens. and it says error 01:23:00 kerneldove, Can you share the error you are seeing? And say the full 14.4 version? 01:24:34 when i start it up, it says route: message indicates error: file exists, add host 127.0.0.1: gateway lo0 fib 0: route already in table, route: message indicates error: file exists, add host ::1: gateway lo0 fib 0: route alraedy in table 01:25:18 I was rather hoping for a pastebin with the full page of errors... :-( 01:27:09 For example here is one from one of my systems that I am upgrading: https://bpa.st/IUKQ 01:33:49 man that's weird 01:39:41 i'll get a repro together 01:44:00 For some reason upgrades to 14.4-RELEASE-p6 are sometimes not installing /usr/libexec/sshd-auth and then sshd can't start. 01:44:22 I just reverted to a previous Boot Environment. Everything worked there. I upgraded. Error reproduced. 01:44:45 However other systems upgraded okay and did include sshd-auth. Weird. 01:59:56 kerneldove: Yeah, understood that it said error. Just the sitaution itself appeard more like it was meant to be a warning. 01:59:59 https://reviews.freebsd.org/D57470 02:05:20 what pastie site should i use? 02:10:05 https://paste.debian.net/hidden/290215d3 that's a super minimal scripted bsdinstall for 14.4 just trying to get zfs in place and default everything else, but when running it toward the end it gives the error debug window but doesn't say what the error is? 02:21:10 does it put it in a file? 02:21:15 that you can then grab? 02:21:34 what path would it be at? 02:22:06 i dunno actually! 02:22:27 can you try it yourself and see locally what i'm describing? 02:22:41 i made it as simple as possible, it should work 02:23:07 oh i dont have any 14.4 images on hand 02:23:35 what's supposed to happen is at end of successful scripted install, it automatically reboots. but this error window shows when either there's an error, or when your installerconfig runs a command that generates output. but don't know what would be doing that ins uch a simple installerconfig 02:52:35 rwp: No, I haven't had a chance to look. I've only seen it the once so far. I've never looked at freebsd-update innards, but somehow the detail that a new file is required for sshd is missed in some cases. 03:11:29 nayone had any issues upgrading mysql80 to mysql84? just a drop-in replacement? 03:12:21 f451: Always take full back-ups before you try. That said, I'm more of a PostgreSQL person. But I still take full back-ups just in case. The time I don't take them will be the time I needed them. 03:12:49 oh yeah, i got htose ;) 03:12:53 good good 03:12:55 also tarsnap 03:13:54 f451: FWIW, they have what might be a useful page here: https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/8.4/en/upgrading-from-previous-series.html 03:14:08 hteres other stuff too like this server is on 13.5 so like *everything* has to be backed up 03:14:23 mason: thanks 03:14:24 It's worth looking at the equivalent docs for 8.1, 8,2, and 8.3 as well. I'm betting it's pain-free, but can't hurt to look. 03:14:45 a little light reading ;) 03:15:04 also have drupal to think about and it's on 10.1.x 03:15:45 f451: I hope it all goes smoothly for you. 03:15:50 and it's 0415 here lol im going to bed 03:15:55 o/ 03:15:55 ty :D 03:16:00 \o 05:43:53 f451, I would consider switching from mysql to mariadb. It's the better development track. I would do an sql backup dump. Remove mysql. Upgrade the system. Install mariadb. Load the database. That has worked for me. 05:58:55 https://bpa.st/STQQ 05:59:15 what is .SUNCTF_ctf section? 05:59:35 .SUNW_ctf 06:01:12 or rather why I started to get this during boot. 06:06:28 No idea. I am having other problems with the most recent 14.4-RELEASE-p6. sshd-auth missing. Me feels that this release may have been rushed. 06:40:30 I have this feeling with the entire 14.4 upgrade 06:43:21 I have a system that has upgraded but with a missing required sshd-auth twice now. Seems reproducible. Each time I fell back to a previous Boot Environment. 06:44:05 I am trying an experiment now where I emptied out /var/db/freebsd-update leaving it an empty directory forcing a complete new download of the update files. Testing to see if that fixes the upgrade problem or not. 06:44:33 I've been running jails for many many years now, and upgrades never were any problem, and now I have to switch off hardware checksums to reach them... makes no sense 06:44:36 Because many other systems upgraded without this problem. So maybe it was a failed corrupted download? Don't know. Trying this experiment. 06:45:18 Oh I saw that chksum bug go by in the bug tracker, someone else referenced it. 06:47:15 during the years I made some modifications on for instance pam, but it never gave me any problems, till now, where my cron wouldn't run anymore. no mention of cron nor pam in the release notes 06:47:45 This one I think? https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=295057 06:53:01 Dan Langille, not the least, also committed one: 295986 06:54:24 In my case there's no NAT involved. 06:55:18 I've read somewhere else that ipfilter might be involved in this issue 06:56:15 ipfw, I mean 07:05:33 kinda crazy that there are these probs with 14.4. you'd think being so many patches into so many minor versions it'd be the most stable release ever 07:10:18 joemie, I think that chksum issue was tied to ipfw. So pf users are not seeing the problem. I think. I use pf and haven't seen that problem anyway. 07:11:13 kerneldove40, Does seem like something was rushed this release. 07:11:46 My experiment still failed. "Starting sshd. /usr/libexec/sshd-auth does not exist or is not executable /etc/rc.d/sshd: WARNING: failed to start sshd" 07:13:43 Strange that this upgraded just fine on a dozen other systems. Mason also has seen this problem. I have one system with the problem. What makes it different? No idea. 07:14:12 Too late for me to debug this further tonight. I'm rolling it back and going to sleep on it. Good night all! 07:14:27 sleep well 08:35:55 what would you guys say is the one filesystem that would work the best between freebsd and netbsd 08:36:07 read/writes OK without it being "risky" 08:36:21 im getting the impression its ext2fs even though both have UFS 08:41:29 from asking netbsd, it seems like its ext2fs 08:53:01 "BUMSRAKETE is a YUUUGE kernel bug in FreeBSD. Probably the biggest. Tremendous, really." https://bumsrake.de/ 09:27:50 Hi, why there is quarterly and release_x packages in https://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:13:amd64/ ? When would pkg install use release_x and when it will use quarterly? 09:36:34 release is allways the newest versions, quarterly only gets updates when it's imported or after 3 month 09:37:05 it's a bit like linux roling release vs stable like distros 09:38:27 pkg install poudriere 09:40:46 satanist: when it is imported? 09:41:05 I did not understand that 09:42:51 sorry important 09:44:59 how do you select one or the other, and if you are using RELEASE you say that the packages are constantly updated? (until EOL I guess?) 09:45:47 you can select the repo in /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf 09:46:27 url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/quarterly", 09:46:46 so here I am using quarterly, if I would want to use release I would put there release_5 ? 09:46:59 no just release 09:48:33 but when I observe, for instance the dates for packagesite.pkg in FreeBSD 14, inside quarterly the date is 2026-Jun-09, but inside release_4 is 2026-Feb-15. So it seems like it is actually quarterly the one being updated 09:48:37 url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/quarterly", 09:48:45 https://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:14:amd64/release_4/ 09:48:59 https://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:14:amd64/quarterly/ 09:49:07 you can see the dates for packagesite.pkg in both folders 09:51:36 ah sorry, I mixed up latest with release, I have no clue what the release_* repos are 09:56:23 I am trying to find in the documentation what is packagesite.pkg in release_x but I can not find anything 09:56:35 the latest vs quarterly seems clear 10:04:46 sort of new to bsd admin, still confused about ports and packages. i thought pkg(8) was for binary packages and ports are a different thing, yet the pkg repository is FreeBSD-ports? is there something i'm missing? 10:07:54 i've also found the handbook has a command that will wipe your existing /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf when it probably shouldn't and i'm not sure how the handbook is edited 10:09:55 it is a bit confusing IMHO, I have been using FreeBSD for like 7 years or so and now I am trying to finally understand in full the mechanism and different branches/repos 10:10:50 to my knowledge, pkg's are the binary distribution of the ports, and ports are just the ports to FreeBSD of third party software 10:11:05 okay that makes a bit more sense if it is the case 10:11:06 the base system is downloaded elsewhere 10:11:24 you can also compile from the ports (I have never done that, I always use pkg) 10:11:40 i know that pkg now does the base system in 15.0 which is nice coming from a linux user pov 10:11:59 I have no system in 15 yet 10:13:20 I am trying to freeze the last released version of 13 to use in internal jails, I am downloading all packages and setting up my local repo, so you will be able to use it both today and in 10 years (this is only good for internal systems) 10:13:22 yea compiling from ports has also been a bit confusing (haven't done it yet, just the concept). from what i've read online i should use ports XOR pkgs and not mix them? 10:14:18 I have never dealt with compiling ports, but it makes sense that you can not use pkg for that particular port at least if using the sources? 10:14:35 not a question, just an educated guess 10:15:34 luckily my use case is just a couple of servers which are running linux guests via bhyve. i am also a fan of running the latest and greatest for security patching so it was a shock to know quarterly is the default on FreeBSD (unless security patches are backported?) 10:16:20 yeah i presume you can't install the same package via pkg and ports. maybe i was getting confused when reading because i thought people were saying to not mix use of pkg and ports at all... 10:17:29 I think quarterly DOES include important security updates 10:18:13 thats what i assumed 10:18:21 I have many systems running in jails and all are internal, security is no concern, so to me it is better for those system to have a static snapshot that I can use today and in 10 years if needed 10:18:47 a live exposed system is a different matter 10:19:04 fair enough, these machines are supposed to be internal but since they're within a network i don't control i'm pretty much forced to assume they aren't 10:20:26 the only thing meant to be exposed are the guests. even then, with recent linux lpe and container escape stuff i don't trust the separation between the guest and the host. 10:21:44 if by exposed you mean it can be freely accessed from the internet I would ensure the host system is updated no matter what, in my case everything is internal and I trust the environment 10:24:21 yeah the guests are, hosts aren't freely accessible. they're all in their own vlan but i don't control the network policies and getting them changed is a bit of a slow process 10:25:04 well if the guest are exposed to the internet the host is indirectly is, I guess bhyve isolates it well but who knows, I would not risk it 10:25:40 to my knowledge the case there is to have it in quarterly and update it regularly, and you will have to keep upgrading releases and majors 10:26:11 that is why I am aiming to freeze a version for internal stuff, you do not have to update anything, but for that you need an internal pkg repository 10:26:27 yeah that's my mindset with it all anyways, assume everything is compromised and harden things to limit damage accordingly 10:27:10 i'm yet to see how pkg upgrading the base works. i guess i'll see when 15.1 is ready 10:43:22 I only use packages, except if I want something special: for instance I use postfix, but the package doesn't contain the cyrus-sasl part (at least, last time I checked), and I compile it from ports. To prevent pkg to meddle with it, I lock it after compiling. 10:47:23 joemie: okay that sounds about right then. i think i just got confused when searching online 10:52:19 FreeBSD actually advises against mixing packages and ports, but sometimes there's no other way (unless you use 100% ports) 10:59:13 yea 11:53:50 petercs: poudriere-devel mixes packages when it pre-fetches binaries from pkg.f.o 11:55:29 it compares shlibs and things like that though 11:56:15 easy to make a mess if it's manually done and not in cleanroom like poudriere 12:16:32 rwp maybe the devs resent maintaining 14 for so long and they're focused on 15 and kinda being sloppy? 13:29:22 hey i just noticed pkg.conf format is different now, when did it change? 13:55:24 kerneldove: ? pkg.conf has been UCL for a long time 13:55:59 i've been using my own custom file, guess i never caught the upgrade! 13:56:06 awesome that ucl is getting used more and more 14:02:31 kevans do you also like that ucl is getting used more and more in base? 14:05:07 yes 14:05:16 ucl is good 14:11:02 nice 14:13:00 anyone use the helix text editor? all of a sudden it now panics anytime i try to open a file. fresh install 14:24:13 panic? not messing around is it 14:24:38 no, piece of junk imagine panicking on opening a file 14:28:19 seems to be written in rust, can you run it with RUST_BACKTRACE=full in the environment and share the backtrace? 14:28:43 ya sec 14:31:59 sorry it's taking forever i was in the middle of compiling latest hx code 14:36:26 termbin.com doesn'twork anymore? 14:40:45 kerneldove: yes I use it daily on fbsd and linux 14:41:26 amlor cat file | nc termbin.com 9999? 14:42:08 cat what file? 14:42:20 any text file 14:42:30 that's how i've used it for years but it's not returning a URL anymore 14:42:55 what does it have to do with helix? 14:43:10 ah I got it now 14:43:14 lol ya 14:43:30 you were talking about two things and I didn't specify which one 14:43:41 I meant helix, which works on updated freebsd 14:44:04 version 25.07.1, installed from pkg.freebsd.org 14:46:14 ok figured it out... 14:46:28 can't run hx from vm console myvm connection 14:46:33 guess it hates vt100? 14:48:59 lemme check 14:50:03 which shell are you using btw? 14:51:35 I ran it in sh from vm console and it is working. lags a bit when starting and has no colors, but doesn't crash 14:51:46 FYI: termbin.com has been stuck the past few days. Hopefully it will get fixed. But the paste process has not been working. 14:52:34 although $TERM variable has xterm in it for some reason 14:55:01 added export TERM=vt100 to .shrc and it still doesn't crash 14:55:29 amlor echo $SHELL => /usr/local/bin/bash 14:56:05 and you're using the default vm console vt100? 14:56:21 `TERM=vt100 hx` is sufficient 14:56:25 t test that, amlor 14:57:18 I did that too 14:57:26 bash doesn't crash it for me either 14:57:40 wtf 14:59:34 latest or quarterly pkg repo 14:59:43 not sure if it matters but what's your hx --version? 15:01:43 latest 15:01:48 version 25.07.1, as I mentioned above 15:04:19 ya dunno 15:04:32 i even updated 14.4 to latest patch and same crash 15:04:44 ah well whatever i'll just ssh in after using console to install 15:05:08 ty for helping me find a workaround guys 15:21:57 Question about "dump" command. Before few days, I've been asking somebody here why does he use the dump over let say rsync. I was curious whether there is some speciality about using "old" dump command. And I've been told here, that basically there is nothing special. Now I have discovered, that first, it is about 2x faster than rsync (on linux), 15:21:57 and more importantly: there is the "-L" flag, which is ment to be used on Live system. With -L, it will first create the UFS file system snapshot, and then it will backup this snapshot. So, guys... This isn't a small thing, isn't is? This could be an old and overlooked life system backup tool. Even tools like restic can't do snapshots. 15:25:27 kerneldove: ahh I missed that you have 14. I'm on 15 latest 15:26:19 rsync is slop now, so that may be one reason to use dump instead 15:27:17 OpenBSD has switched to OpenRsync. 15:27:51 JurassCZ: people use dump with restore, and rsync is not dump replacement 15:28:52 what happened to rsync? 15:29:18 Guys, I'm now confused, it looks like dump is only for UFS, and according to manual, with the -L flag it can do the UFS snapshots!!! i've never knew this is possible, I thought that snapshots can be done only via ZFS or LVM. Heck, hjow is it possible that such old command and old filesystem can do snapshots? I'm just surprised. 15:29:36 but zfs-send(8) can be considered dump(8) replacement 15:30:38 yes, dump is for UFS and zfs-send is for ZFS - the same purpose 15:32:08 Ok, and nobody is surprised by this? I've spent several mandays to investigate some general purpose backup method on Linux, and basically all the tools the Linux has like restic, rsync, dd, etc., nothing can do snapshots of the life system! And heck, the FreeBSD has such old dump command, which is able to do UFS snapshots. It's just ridiculous. 15:35:36 amlor what makes rsync slop now? 15:36:32 kerneldove: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/rip-rsync-ai-slop.102835/ 15:37:09 kerneldove: they started using claude in their commits. i /think/ the this is actually unrelated but happened at a similar time they started using claude, a load of regressions then ensued. 15:37:28 kerneldove: the main dev decided to let LLMs do anything with the code base, like rewrite the test suite into bad python https://neuromatch.social/@hailey⊙ho/116657392148745644 15:38:11 ok ya gotta switch to openrsync 15:38:16 i trust openbsd instincts 15:38:33 i think someone (potentially the author of rsync) wrote an article "proving" claude hasn't caused any more bugs via statistical tests, but i think that ignores the root of peoples' upsettance (if that is a word) 15:38:51 ya well he also runs a business (tarsnap) based on it 15:38:58 so he's biased 15:39:04 the noun form of upset is also upset 15:39:16 oh I didn't realize tarsnap was his 15:39:27 glad I didn't start using it 15:39:32 yep 15:39:42 also please don't post foreign post links private to your modondodon instance 15:39:49 use the menu and select copy the link to the post 15:39:59 ty for heads up on rsync becoming slop 15:40:07 modondodon lol 15:40:30 kerneldove: yeah that's exactly what i thought. apparently he had his wife (clearly no conflict of interest there!), who has some degree in stats from some university, review it. 15:40:44 ffs 15:40:46 Also statistics talk about numbers, not about the severity of bugs 15:40:56 "my mom sais that I did nothing wrong" basically 15:41:02 MelanieUrsidino: very true, brain is not braining today 15:41:26 lts: but what about bugs per 10 lines? isn't that a good measure? 15:41:31 weird move to use his wife as a shield for an obviously bad decision 15:41:38 (yes that's what they used in the post if i remember correctly) 15:41:39 mildly misogynistic tbh. 15:41:41 petercs: I prefer wtf/min 15:41:42 yep 15:41:48 that's what i was thinking melanie 15:41:52 unless she's financially independent of him, there's a conflict of interest there 15:43:24 and even then, ties of love even not strengthened by money can cause a COI 15:43:36 https://alexispurslane.github.io/rsync-analysis/ okay so i must make a correction, it does not look like tridge authored this post 15:43:39 ya for sure, he literally penetrates her 15:43:52 ostensibly 15:43:58 allegedly 15:44:11 i'm not sure who alexis purslane is in regards to rsync 15:44:43 Anecdata but Debian mirror maintainer complained about mirror sync problems this week and suspected it was related to rsync being updated to post-LLM version 15:44:57 s/Debian/a Debian/ 15:44:58 kerneldove, that was not appropriate nor relevant, thank you 15:45:30 +1 15:46:11 oh sorry i was just thinking if someone was entering me there'd be some intrinsic bias 15:46:13 np 15:46:31 wtf doesn't clicking on a post in a mastodon thread go to the original server for that post? 15:47:04 it depends on the frontend 15:47:11 and your settings in it 15:47:19 if you're logged int 15:47:29 regardless of authorship, it's kind of a weird way to argue about the introduction of LLM use to a big, widely-used project. also still weird to use your wife's degree as a way of saying "i'm right :)" 15:47:52 the web one, is there any native frontend to read random mastodon threads? 15:47:56 had no idea about OpenRsync though so i guess i'll swap to using that :) 15:48:04 good thing rsync isn't included in base 15:48:58 nimaje: i suspect there are many implementations. there are at least multiple android apps. 15:49:25 nimaje, no, not if you're on a mastodon account of your own 15:49:30 it opens via your server usually 15:49:41 there are linux clients too. tuba or something. don't remember the others 15:49:54 kerneldove, again, that's not it's not appropriate to talk about contributors to a FOSS project having or not having sex here 15:49:59 I prefer https://phanpy.social/ in a browser tab on desktop 15:50:07 s/that's not it's/it's/ 15:54:42 where's the bsdinstall source system hardening panel code? i wanna see what those hardening options correlate to 15:57:25 petercs: and any that on freebsd that is just for reading? Most I found require an account and/or are just the web implementation repacked with electron 15:58:10 you will have to somehow redirect all the possible domains there 15:58:34 I don't think it's possible 15:58:44 nimaje: not that i know of, sorry :/ i thought web instances would still show the post without login 15:59:42 kerneldove: i'm not sure but you can see some in your rc and sysctl configs on a machine configured with them iirc? maybe also /boot/loader.conf? if that helps 16:00:57 i found it 16:03:55 where was it? i tried to look for the bsdinstall source before but didn't find it with some quick searches 16:04:23 https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/blob/master/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts/hardening 16:06:13 petercs: they show the posts, but they require js and are shitty and as I just learned they don't go to the original server when I select a post for viewing 16:10:32 nimaje: hm, you might have luck with some CLI/TUI clients? they might require signing in or an access token or something though 16:12:51 nimaje: there's also this no-JS web client but i've not used it and it looks unmaintained https://forge.spoons.technology/theothertom/planiverse 16:17:55 hm, the demo instance is currently down, maybe I try it later on my own system 16:35:20 do the majority of people use `pkg` or the ports collection or a combination of both? I'm thinking about using the `pkg` collection since it's precompiled and I usually stick with defaults in software config options. 16:39:51 you can do both 16:40:16 i used to do 100% ports but now mostly packages unless i have some specific config option (which isn't very frequent anymore) 16:41:24 rtprio: ok, thanks I'll use pkg then 16:42:49 also, depending on your system and patience, i know i don't have the time to wait around 22 or so hours for rust to build 16:44:10 rtprio: I was also thinking about using pkg since I'm usually fine with most distro defaults and I'm guessing it will be the same w/ freebsd 17:12:26 td123, Start with pkgs at least. It's the easiest and will do everything you need. However two caveats. Graphics modules from pkgs are sometimes out of sync with the latest kernel. That's been improved recently but hit me again recently. 17:12:30 Some complicated pkgs fail to build initially and the maintainer needs another build run to get through it. Build daemons are always busy. 17:12:36 This doesn't affect people running the system over time but upon initial install firefox may still be waiting in the build queue sometimes. This is only a new install issue. 18:00:09 rwp: ok, thanks for the heads up about pkg 18:50:36 Is there a way to auto clean or auto drop snapshots? I want 5, when 6th is created drop the oldest? 18:51:14 yes there is, I use a script on one of my servers that keeps the 4 last snapshots 18:53:00 ...are you going to share? :-) 18:53:21 Well I know it could be scripted but... nothing builtin 18:54:08 or is it a user added attribute? Like a bolt on action? 19:06:57 Turns out when you let freebsd-update create snapshots over the span of 4 years things build up. 19:17:54 I use sanoid for periodically dropping snapshots, according to the ruleset applied to each dataset 19:18:31 for the freebsd-update snapshots, i delete those manually a couple/few times per year 19:35:59 It's worth using different patterns for snapshot names for backups, updates, etc. 19:36:10 Then you can mechanize deleting certain classes of snapshot. 19:36:20 at distinct schedules 19:36:30 s/at/on/ 19:39:37 JurassCZ: FreeBSD is a designed OS 19:40:02 mzar: Huh? 19:41:44 JurassCZ: - answering why dump(8) is able to dump live filesystem 19:42:01 THB I used dump with tapes, worked like a charm 19:42:14 I had to recover from them a couple of times 19:42:30 later switched to dump over ssh 19:42:44 Do you know since when the Dump and UFS supports the filesystem snapshots? Is this a new added feature, or it could be like this in 1995? 19:45:25 Damn that zfs rollback works like a sharm, even on live system. This is something a linux user will not get so easilly. I suppose in case of lost laptop, I could just install new FreeBSD with ZFS, trasnfer the backuped snapshot, and just do rollback to it. And it will give me the exact same "/" and my system will works. Never tried it yet. 19:45:54 But I suspect it will work. 19:47:22 :-O 19:51:30 JurassCZ: I have :D works great, just needs a boot partition/bootloader too 19:53:39 I will write article about it to root.cz soon, should I tell everybody how good FreeBSD is, or rather stay silent so nobody will know it so easily? :D 19:56:15 aha, dobrý večer :D 19:57:02 yes you should tell people how awesome it is, we're not greedy :D 19:57:09 interesting 19:57:37 I mean the enthusiasm 20:02:39 JurassCZ: if you want to search for the time of implelentation of -L option in dump(8) you should check the commit history 20:03:24 but IIRC I was using it since the beginning of using it, so probably in early 1990s 20:05:01 hm, how does ufs' snapshots work? file based COW? 20:05:26 as the tool came with at&t version 4, I would guess the first version came after the big rewrite? 20:44:07 I can tell you that there's no "-L" in FreeBSD 2.2.8 (I happen to be in that in a VM at the moment) 20:45:14 It is in 8.4, so somewhere between there. (boots up 4.11...) 20:45:52 not in 4.11 either 21:07:28 spork_css : 4.11 was so close version 5.0 https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=dump&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+5.0-RELEASE&format=html 21:30:42 nicotine (an interpretation of soulseek) does not run on xlibre ? (freebsd 15.0-RELEASE-p8) I don't know how exactly to understand the output https://pastebin.com/ydLuwJWc 21:36:11 solstis: i dont think that is the full log 21:36:29 wait 21:36:31 it just cuts off 21:37:01 well, it talks about a debugger :O 21:37:46 maybe just report the error as a bug, but with who :| 21:46:55 thx, will try that later 22:14:15 JurassCZ: when i found out you can just do stuff like `zfs send zroot/vms/example | ssh other-host zfs receive zroot/vms/example` with ZFS it kinda blew my mind. makes it so easy to just move a VM image or back it up to another ZFS host. i believe there's also a way to incrementally send snapshots too 22:28:15 petercs: I've been using zfs in production since 8.mumble when you had to do a lot of work to get it kind of stable. It was rough, but saved a ton of money on some standby db servers where we were able to get a combo hdd/ssd volume performing nearly as well wi/Postgres as on our ssd-only dbs. 22:29:48 And I have an old junk PC in my garage that has no UPS, runs a freebsd desktop, is on a power strip that tripped quite often and the way that thing always just came back after incredibly rude sudden shutdowns has me in awe. 22:29:52 petercs: sure, you can send incremental snapshots too 22:31:01 and these snapshots don't have to really refer to previous ones, but can refer to bookmarks (traces of nonexisten snapshots)