00:02:20 bystander: hey, there are flames pooring out of the windows on your house 00:02:23 home owner: well if you expect me to do anything about it, you'll need to lodge a formal request for me to look into it 00:03:42 Wrong analogy, methinks. 00:04:07 By the way, I have had good experience with that bug tracker: a problem I reported was fixed after 1.5 years or so. 00:04:49 if you give that page a read, you can see that the project has serious resource and governance problems. to the point where i'm questioning if the operating system is even safe to run anymore 00:04:57 Tinhead bot seems to have lost it's marbles in #freebsd-bugs 00:07:11 i love freebsd and have used it for decades, but if the project cannot address or at least respond to these issues, i'll have to seriously consider moving to a more mature/supported os like debian 00:07:22 mjp, if it is your won article -- great. You could initiate a productive discussion of it on the mailing lists, more suitable to lengthy discourse than IRC. (my personal opinion) 00:07:43 mjp, there are other BSDs, as well. 00:09:08 i'm a user/sysadmin with a full time job and a family, i don't have time to contribure to the project 00:09:20 talking a high and mighty game about governance issues makes you sound like a strasserite 00:10:23 i think if the project is not able or willing to take security seriously, state it and make everyone aware, don't pretend otherwise 00:11:40 mjp, reporting a problem is a tiny fraction of effort of having it fixed. 00:13:36 i dont think anyone would disagree with that 00:14:14 you might be right, but you are at this juncture a disruptive presence 00:14:26 i dont see the project even acknowledging long standing problems, let alone having a plan to address them 00:14:44 wake up calls usually are disruptive 00:14:49 that is the point? 00:15:36 linking master→main under «political commits» really does stand you out as a fascist. please just leave. 00:15:57 bystander: hey, there are flames pooring out of the windows on your house. home owner: you are at this juncture a disruptive presence 00:16:00 ok 00:16:31 analogy incorrect 00:17:36 if you're going to switch to a different OS because of this - switch 00:17:48 it's that simple. if you don't want to visit the house you think is burning, don't visit the house 00:17:55 building stuff as root doesn't seem great 00:18:05 i will probably apply some of their recommendations, at least 00:18:43 i like the house, i have lived here for decades, i dont want to leave 00:19:21 mjp: Then the solution is to constructively contribute. End of story. 00:19:26 i also have a landlord advising me "well if you dont like burning to death, just leave!" 00:20:08 i don't think if fair to blame users of the OS for not fixing its shortcomings, its perfectly valid to just be a user and not contribute 00:20:36 mjp, no contribution -- no complaint. 00:21:02 is that an offical rule of the freebsd project? 00:21:06 i also like it, i can't yet evaluate the difficulty of each proposed change here but running any WAN-facing freebsd i probably should put it on to-do... 00:21:15 or some BOFH quip from the 90s? 00:21:52 mjp, I think it is common sense. And of course, reporting bugs in the tracker counts as a contribution. 00:22:22 do we have literally an moderator on deck right now 00:23:07 i will agree some of the listed things are not really "bugs" per se 00:23:12 if you read the article. many problems have been reported to the project, and ignored? how would creating a bug report for an ignore bug report help? 00:23:40 like, if you have configured swap not to be encrypted, and it's not encrypted, that is correct behavior for the setting 00:23:51 also you have included your X account name at the top of this page of yours. in 2026. that puts you in the lunduke set 00:24:00 i'm not attacking the people or the project, but I think an honest conversation and response is warranted 00:24:20 encrypted swap is what i would consider one of the lesser problems raised here 00:24:21 mjp, a bug report /will/ help, because it will stay open and sore the eyes of the developers. 00:24:23 (this is a recommendation i will probably take) 00:25:12 yeah, was first example, not necessarily most important. i just mean reporting as bugs seems wrong for some of them, so I wouldn't know where it would be considered constructive to raise the issue etc etc 00:26:03 i don't see how making developers have even more sore eyes than they already do would help them when they are already overwhelmed and overworked 00:27:07 now i'm a bit confused, what are you advocating if not for the issues to be fixed? 00:27:19 mewt, report /any/ problem to the bug tracker. Mine was not a bug, either: . 00:27:31 interesting, ok 00:28:20 mewt: basically telling us to stop using freeBSD while advertising his (he's a he. i just know it. no woman writes a web like that and is also openly christian.) website with linux hardening tips to us. 00:29:08 * LXGHTNXNG sets a stopwatch 00:30:03 hmm 00:30:54 most of the article touches on more than "bugs" suitable for reporting in a tracker, they touch on the stated priorities and goals of the project vs actual reality on the ground, it needs high level evaluation and intevention 00:31:32 LXGHTNXNG: if you are talking about me, you are making some very bad assumptions and are not good at trying to doxx people 00:31:42 I'm not interested in doxing you. 00:32:06 I don't even use X btw, so not sure who's X acct you are talking about? 00:32:44 We're assuming that you wrote the article because you passed it us without any indication that you got it from somewhere else. 00:32:59 the author is not mjp i don't think, the author is a name i've seen around as an arch maintainer before 00:33:17 blakkheim iirc 00:33:19 yes 00:33:41 for some reason there's some negative emotional valence stored against tha name in my memory banks but I can't know what it is 00:33:56 okay. mjp you're forgiven, but all of my comments apply to blakkheim 00:34:51 consider the source before you send things 00:34:55 that's all I will say. 00:35:32 i think my comments on the Xitter profile are off topic, i do find it a bit off-putting. i'm willing to entertain the recommendations given anyways 00:36:00 LXGHTNXNG: you (no one else, not 'we') made wrong assumptions. I have not done anything wrong, i dont need your forgiveness. maybe ease up on the ad hominems though? 00:37:08 unforgiven then. and ignored 00:43:14 mjp, try the mailing lists with those higher-level concerns. 00:47:47 I just realised today that the article was first published over 3 years ago 00:49:40 I doubt lots all of the problems mentioned in it are fixed now. 00:50:07 Oh, hm. blakkheim used to be a regular in here, and was a FreeBSD person, but it was years ago. Anyway, most of the things in that article can be taken as hints for how to configure things. I think there are things in there worthy of being formal bugs, but it'll take some research. Not everything he says there is valid. 00:50:31 IIRC, he was, among other things, the first audio engineer for BSD Now.