00:22:57 hi everyone ! 00:30:06 could someone help me understand why when I try to pkg install certain things it tries to uninstall all of my hyprland pkgs? 00:30:38 hm 00:30:55 now you have me curious if mine will pull the same thing 00:30:58 let's see :) 00:31:00 today I tried to install vlc and libreoffice and it tried this 00:32:02 pkg: sqlite error while executing grmbl in file update.c:154: NOT NULL constraint failed: packages.path 00:32:07 oh... well.. how about that 00:32:07 vlc and/or its dependencies conflicts with hyprland and/or its dependencies, should be "simple" as that 00:32:44 well last time i was able to resolve this by specifying those hyprland pkgs in pkg install ... 00:32:49 and it didn't try to remove them 00:33:44 i've had chains of pkg uninstalls from installing e.g. php packages 00:37:09 maybe it's the hyprland-qutils 00:37:12 oh. i guess it's only quarterly 00:37:20 so changing to latest you don't see it 00:37:35 yeah i changed to the latest 00:37:53 there's a bit of irony to that :) 00:38:43 yeah i had issues yesterday with kitty 00:39:22 well.. i mean.. i'm just saying that the quartly repo is kind of designated as the stable repo.. but then again that applies more to packages than pkg itself 00:40:01 yeah i don't know what the qualifications are for "stable" 00:40:08 quarterly seems just arbitrary tbh 00:40:31 not really. it seems like a standard practice to have a 'tested and true' repo 00:40:41 quarterly is just a snapshot of latest at a particular time, then it only receives security fixes and notable bug fixes 00:41:00 that's what i mean. it doesn't imply stability by being a time cutoff 00:41:27 i guess that would depend on how quickly pkgs are pushed to latest 00:41:32 and bugs are found 00:41:33 no, it's more stable because it doesn't receive any major updates, so things are less likely to break than in latest 00:41:40 that doesn't necessarily mean nothing breaks though 00:43:02 it should be entirely possible to have a local AI box manage all these builds and testings and designate things stable based on outcomes of the patching and testing 00:43:49 as long as it's not gemini it should work i mean 00:43:51 lol 00:45:51 ok, i solved my pkg conflict the same way as before. i'm not sure why pkg thinks i don't want these pkgs. 01:01:05 i've been away from ricing computers for so long that i forgot how useful tmux is when you're doing this sort of stuff 01:08:55 I live in tmux these days. Saves me a lot of hassle bouncing between computers and shelling everywhere 01:09:23 works well when you have an old tiny screen thinkpad too 01:24:58 pkg-lock(8) might help too: pkg lock is used to lock packages against reinstallation, modification or deletion. 01:25:11 oh ok, thank you 01:29:44 I have used it in the past to prevent upgrades of weechat that I compiled from ports with custom options 01:35:29 i'm not sure if the trouble of learning hyprland is worth it 01:35:48 my memory just isn't what it used to be. I think i've googled how to open a terminal like 3 times now ffs 01:39:14 intalled qubes os yesterday on a lenova desktop box 01:39:19 i need to bring in all my old shell and vim config files. i still haven't gotten to that. i just reinstalled freebsd after having gone nearly a decade of not using it. 01:39:49 qubes is wonderful. i had that on an old ibm rack computer a long time ago. 01:40:09 its my first time 01:40:29 proxmox though... 01:40:40 if you have the cores and memory it just makes all kinds of sense 01:41:01 I have to go trought documentation which is very well made 01:41:07 anyway just sharing 01:41:09 that always helps 01:43:15 so i have freebsd on my laptop and qubes on my desktop to play with 02:21:41 ivy: posted a patch to 292232; I will test it ~tomorrow, probably, unless you have time before that 02:22:25 kevans: thanks, i'll see if i can test it later 02:22:59 *nod* sounds good 02:24:02 probably needs more to makek the failure mode better than 'nothing happens', but i'll take the 'make it functional for now' 02:24:34 as long as you can install the system and boot it that is enough for now :-) i'm still not sure if we want to add kernel= to loader.conf in bsdinstall 02:27:19 well, i don't know if i had commented anything contradictory on this, but in tonight's opinion we should if it's not 'kernel' 02:27:41 there are very good reasons to turn off kernels_autodetect, it'd be better for loader.conf to be at least somewhat functional without it 02:28:25 i don't think anyone was really opposed to it, it's just a bit of a departure from how we used to do things, but it's probably unavoidable especially if we want to start shipping multiple kernels on the media (debug/nodebug) 02:30:10 once upon a time i might've argued that it wasn't necessary because kernels_autodetect is supposed to do the right thing 02:32:27 trying to run linux-sublime-text, but getting error "Unable to load libcurl.so" 02:32:27 How to fix? 02:57:57 Chip1972: you need to instal that library (for linux, not for freebsd) in /compat/linux/lib (or similar directory) 02:58:16 kevans: tested the patch, all working 03:03:24 beastie: how to instal that library? 03:11:26 hmmm.... don't know.... i'm not expert on linux distribution that comes with freebsd. 03:11:55 a lot of common linux libraries are provided as ports, i don't know if curl is one of them 03:12:00 try to search a package named linux-curl or simiar. 03:12:17 if "linux-sublime-text" is a port, it should probably already depend on that though, so that would be a bug 03:13:55 there are two such packages: linux-c7-curl (centos) and linux-rl-curl (rocky linux) 03:15:03 ivy: you are right, but the package owner should make the package to request the dependency, that simply doesn't happen automatically. 03:17:25 Chip1972: for the next time, i've just done pkg search 'linux.*curl' and got both packages 03:19:01 I found, and they already installed 03:24:35 probably you need to do an ldconfig (the linux one) to rebuild the shared libraries database. Try to find if the library is actually in some place under /compat/linux 03:25:49 yay! pkg mess is fixed. 03:33:36 found libcurl.so.4 03:44:11 where was it found? 03:45:21 probably you need to run the linux ldconfig tool to add that directory in the scan. Probably it's not finding it because it doesn't find the library in the database. 03:47:37 found libcurl.so.4 in /lib and /lib64 03:47:42 IMHO linux and freebsd have different versions of ldconfig, to build the libraries database, as the freebsd requires the directories to search for libraries in the command line, while linux follows a different approach (there's a configuration file that states which directories to search) you should search for a ld.so.conf or ld-so.conf file in the linux 03:48:36 i don't actually know if that's included in the freebsd start-up (probably the package installs in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/something) 03:50:01 I just following the tutorial from freebsd site 03:50:28 my /compat/linux/etc/ld.so.conf just has an include of ld.so.conf.d/* but that directory is empty. 03:50:30 O will try run Alpine in chroot 03:51:54 Chip1972: I'm telling you this because linux is linux and this feature, despite being very similar, is not exactly equal. I started using freebsd some ten years ago, but I started using linux in 1994, so i know better how this happens on linux. 03:52:02 that will not help. 03:52:24 I dont know what is ldconfig 03:52:42 running chroot will not make ld-so.so (or whatever the name is) to find and load libcurl.so 03:53:25 ldconfig is the tool that builds the database of shared objects installed in the system to be able to find quickly a shared library. 03:53:44 but man ldconfig will explain that better than me. 03:55:02 the system libraries are not searched by a PATH like strategy, but are indexed (due to the number of installed libraries and the repetitive of the process) in a file that needs to be built at startup. 03:58:30 well... I works with electronics, studied physics, and now studing biochemistry... 03:58:30 computer is a tool who demands too much effort to do things properly 04:05:39 since zfs arc will kinda expand to use whatever free mem there is, then shrink as other things actually need it, how do you guys find out the actual free mem of a system? free meaning that which can be freed up and made available to things that need it 04:06:05 the mem line of top has a "inact" field, how would i get that from the command line? 04:11:09 beastie: how to run ldconfig on /compat/linux? 04:12:40 kerneldove_: vm.stats.vm.v_inactive_count, it's in units of pages so multiply by page size (4KB on most systems) 04:13:03 is there a sysctl to get the page size so i can make it dynamic in my code? 04:13:26 ah yea 04:13:33 vm.stats.vm.v_page_size, nice! 04:13:39 tyvm! 04:15:44 ivy am i right in that inactive mem is basically free in that other things can use it without causing the system to crash or swap or other progs to terminate from OOM? 04:36:14 ah yes that's right, confirmed by allan jude himself https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/137254 04:43:25 Have any of you used OPNsense on 15? 04:51:42 where does systat -ifstat get its "load average" figure from? 04:58:45 kerneldove_, sysctl vm.loadavg 04:59:49 why is that displayed in the output for network stuff? (-ifstat) isn't vm for mem? 05:02:22 kerneldove_, The answer to that is in the man page for it. "The upper window depicts the current system load average. The information displayed in the lower window may vary, depending on user commands." 05:10:18 ahh ty! so system load average refers to the vm load average. for some reason i always though system load referred to cpu usage but it's actually vm subsystem 05:13:13 so it seems my server is fine until it hits about 29 load average, then it starts dropping network throughput pretty substantially 05:13:31 is that normal? 05:16:17 load average is the number of processes currently running + the number of processes waiting to run 05:19:11 load average is a quasi moving window average (to 1m, 5m and 15m) of the number of processes in the R state (this is, ready to run) in the system. 05:19:46 what do you mean by 'vm' ??? 05:20:57 well if load avg isn't specific to vm, why is it under the vm mib in sysctl? 05:21:18 vm means virtual memory no? 05:21:42 it's not system load, the system load depends on many factors, in this case is the number of total threads in state ready to get the cpu.... if you have three cores, and you get a load average of 7 you can infer that the number of threads ready to run per core is about two 05:21:58 vm meaning virtual memory means nothing to load average. 05:22:24 beastie: i think kerneldove_ is asking why the sysctl mib is vm.loadavg when it's not really clearly part of the VM subsystem 05:22:37 yep 05:22:50 a process needs only one page of code segment, one of stack and one of data segment to be able to run in a virtual paged memory system. 05:23:20 It's probably just a historical artifact. It needed to go somewhere and really could go anywhere. 05:23:27 probably it's not part of the virtual memory space... not. 05:23:46 kerneldove_: fwiw, i think the answer is that vm is broadly "the part of the kernel that deals with processes", so a lot of stuff gets lumped there 05:23:48 you talk in riddles beastie, it's really not useful fwiw 05:23:59 huh weird, ty ivy and rwp 05:23:59 loadaverage is a term coined from the program uptime (which should neither do the load average calculation) 05:24:42 kerneldove_: I don't understand what you mean with riddles, let me translate to my language. 05:25:46 no, I try to be precise in my answers. I've mathematical background, sorry if it disturbs you. 05:26:05 i try to help, not to annoy. 05:26:05 'lol' 05:32:36 is 16G a good swap size for a server? 05:32:53 i try to keep swap unused but i think it's good to have for safety? 05:38:36 kerneldove_, The amount of swap needed depends upon what you are doing. What's your server serving? Probably it does not need that much. But with disk sizes in the multiple terabytes using 15 gig of it for swap is not otherwise noticed so okay. 05:39:06 tons of web serving basically 05:39:18 ya like i said i try to balance workloads so swap is never even used 05:39:23 you need enough swap to store a kernel crash dump, which depends on how much memory your kernel typically uses, but a couple of GB is usually fine 05:39:30 For that then you probably don't /need/ 16GB but it won't hurt anything. 05:39:37 128gb physical ram 05:39:51 Sounds good. Go with it. It's fine. 05:40:02 why do i need to store a kernel crash dump? 05:40:50 If and only if you run into kernel crash problems then the kernel crash dump can be used to debug it. If you have never had a kernel crash and don't expect to in the future then this is just an unused but available feature. 05:41:34 i notice default debian installs only have 1gb of swap and those are used as servers all the time 05:41:43 and also debian is way more eager to swap than freebsd is 05:42:43 It is good to have at least a little swap. It allows the kernel to free up memory that is never going to be used again and use that memory for other things. Memory is valuable. But then you have 128G of it so... 05:42:54 with Linux you can set "swapiness" and it makes it more or less prone to swap things 05:44:04 Know I'm going to get judged for saying this. But, I do some swap on my systems to keep them running if they run out of regular ram instead of just crashing 05:44:13 And both of my systems have 128G also 05:44:23 how much swap you set? 05:44:43 Also don't confuse having swapped out some pages that are never used with swap thrashing due to not having enough memory to support the resident set size of a process. Two different cases. 05:45:33 kerneldove_: I have 24GB of swap on this machine, and likely similar on the other -- It is literally what Alma Linux just did for me when I told it "automatic partitioning" lol 05:45:42 wow 05:45:50 how much of that do you see used at most? 05:46:30 Looks like 8G right now https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/hI7PGkDN/image.png 05:46:51 what's your load avg? 05:47:27 Depends if my FreeBSD vms are being used to build things :) 05:48:50 I have most of my cores, and half of my ram dedicated to them 05:49:15 nice 05:49:31 bet you're glad you got 128gb before ram prices went up 5x lol 05:49:34 I've ran without swap before too. But that was on my machine that had 256G in it :P 05:49:41 A friend posted this image recently and I think it is worthy to share. 128 cores all busy doing builds. https://htop.dev/images/1 05:49:47 28.png 05:49:48 https://htop.dev/images/128.png 05:49:48 ya i have some systems with no swap too 05:50:34 wow 05:50:39 90 load avg damn 05:52:37 kerneldove_: What are your system specs, and what do you normally use it for? 05:53:02 mostly ryzen 9 3900x 128gb ram 2tb nvme, servers 05:53:27 kerneldove_: the reason you want to store a kernel crash dump is because a kernel panic can be harder to debug if you don't have the dump 05:53:27 what do you serve up with the "servers" ? 05:53:39 web pages and stuff 05:53:49 ivy ok ty 05:54:29 What web server(s) do you use? 05:54:50 I've fallen in love with the simplicity of Caddy 05:56:04 ya i use caddy too 05:56:09 used to use nginx 05:57:06 i guess i'll use 16gb swap for the new server configs and just start scaling down workload if i detect 25% of it or more is used 05:57:53 Yeah, I did nginx prior also. But with Caddy I do a couple static web pages, and a files listing to load my User Manuals -- and as a reverse proxy for Plex, Jellyfin, and a pastebin 05:58:26 i liked how it auto set up lets encrypt, but i really hate caddy's logging config 05:58:33 for what little I do, Caddy does it all easier than anything else 09:08:47 pkg repos were broken for several hours but is now working again 09:42:01 bad 10:06:10 i just set up a few new freebsd servers at a hosting company. i set them all up the same exact way with scripted bsdinstall. i can now ssh into the 3 servers from my freebsd computer, but when i try to ssh in from my debian computer i can only connect to 2 of the 3 10:06:32 the 1 i can't connect to says connection refused. i tried disabling pf on the server but error was the same connection refused 10:06:39 any clues? 10:08:18 first time i've run into this kinda problem 10:10:50 ok nvm heh 10:22:44 Do tell, what caused that to happen? 10:32:00 kerneldove_: try to ssh to one of the servers that accepts and then jumphost to the one that refuses connection. /var/log/auth.log will probably give you an explanation 10:32:34 i put the wrong fucking ip in /etc/hosts heh. somehow i put a 6 for a 9. some kinda vertical dyslexia? 12:49:09 wait, I think we _can_ boot off a temporary root fs. Huh 12:49:54 in other news despite labelling the pi as "stop playing with this" I have nevertheless loaded uboot.bin onto it using rpiboot, then ymodem'd loader.efi over the serial port and got _that_ running 12:50:06 so now I have a raspberry pi booted that far without an SD card in it 12:50:45 I think a bigger uboot build would allow me to yeet the efi loader over the USB connection at far greater speeds 13:22:49 somehow I never learned of rpiboot so far... 14:38:32 pretty neat, actually. It's quite handy for tinkering with bootup stuff without constantly pulling the SD card 14:39:09 now the real question is how to get some kinda image into memory that u-boot can read, such that it can be tickled into booting freebsd entirely into an md 14:39:15 that'd be pretty cool 14:53:54 sometimes I forget you can do uboot on a Pi at all... 14:54:48 of course uboot does 1,372 things I don't know about. I played around with it on a RISC-V board where you could build first-stage bootloader from uboot, and that was at the level even of things like DRAM training, which handed off to OpenSBI, which then handed off back to another uboot stage 15:24:48 A freshly built go binary that's semi-min in design file(1) output is "for FreeBSD 12.3" is this FreeBSD's way of saying this should run on 12.3+? 15:25:09 I see other that are 14.3 (the host) but are linked to a bit more (vs the above). 15:26:09 Is that go that making it backwards compatible or is that a FreeBSD thing? Looking at all other bin/sbins it seems everything is for 14.3 15:57:57 I looked at two go binaries here, and one says 12.3 while the other says 15.0 15:58:52 The first one I built from ports, the other I built with poudriere 16:14:16 if file(1) says 12.3, it should run on both; however, you may need the compat12x-xxx package 16:47:26 I can say for mine it's not needed. 16:47:56 Best I can tell the ELF header desctipion is populated with 123000? 16:48:14 That at least answers why file says that 16:58:56 Hello! Has anyone managed to configure the aerc email client to be used in combination with protonmail? (Using hydroxide as protonmail replacement, since the official one isn't suppported on FreeBSD yet/hasn't a port yet) 17:10:59 lockna I use it with thunderbird 17:11:19 And hydroxide is probably better than the bloat that is the official client, anyway 18:21:59 looks like certificate of events.eurobsdcon.org is expired. 18:35:13 Running the pkgbasify.lua script now 18:44:33 aaand it worked. 19:29:37 I hope you updated to 15.0 before running it 19:35:06 lts: Yep, running 15 for a while now 19:58:48 wavefunction: how long does it take ? 20:35:51 mzar: About 15 mins with all the installs, 20:36:05 Err, 10 mins * 20:36:17 thanks 20:36:25 I have a relatively nice fiber internet connection tho. 20:36:49 Downloaded something like ~313 packages 21:29:42 has anybody compiled ungoogled-chromium locally? 22:35:25 very nice little tutorial on how to create a minimal bootable FreeBSD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc8Z-XX1TS4 22:54:44 can you increase the performance of a freebsd server much by customizing the kernel and compiling on the hardware it'll run on? or is it negligible? 23:03:24 performance? not really. maybe free up a small amount of memory 23:03:57 my custom kernel was i want to say half the size compared to the .. 28MB generic kernel 23:39:05 kerneldove_: you can increase performance significantly by adjusting some sysctl variables, I tink it's covered in Handbook Chapter 12: https://www.freebsdhandbook.com/config/ 23:57:42 ooooh, neat video! I had no idea it could get _that_ minimal 23:58:29 having discovered today that we do have hte benefit of something like an init ramdisk I do want to give that a go at some point – perhaps building a system that's juuuuust enough for logging in and loading a decryption key for zfs or geli, perhaps