05:16:54 shbrngdo: i have compiled my updates since i started using FreeBSD, the only time I use poudriere are for port build and even so small edits don't need a full blown poudriere setup as the internal ports testing is enough 05:18:25 and I will probably continue to do it even more now, I have a build script that bsically just says Compiling kernel: done Compiling world: Done would you like to install the kernel and world [yY/nN] ehich can be bypassed by adding a .dontbitch heh 05:18:39 cause I really dont need to see all the build magic 06:04:26 vkarlsen - here were a couple of machines like that, had to toggle a boot address then load the tape and hit the button. things like that 06:05:09 The PDP-11/34 had a better system though. Data General Eclipse needed the toggle 06:05:24 the PDP was a simple system 06:06:24 ack - 11/34 had a ROM-based loader and a keypad where you could examine RAM. OInly toyed with it, usually just type in command on console to boot it 06:08:17 my freebsd system runs like a champ once you add in X it crashes every 2 days 06:08:53 video driver probably. some nvidia xfree86 style drivers leak like sieves 06:09:11 NV will not fix for older hardware probably 06:09:26 they shouild open source the old stuff 06:10:09 my AMD works like a champ 06:10:17 my i915 intel device does not 06:11:07 ouh - I have never had trouble with intel vid - maybe use VESA see if that fixes it or look for bad HW 06:11:33 this is a 2025 CPU 06:11:36 i expect issues 06:11:48 the device has a manu date of 11:30:2025 heh 06:12:39 ok driver not up-to-date then. someone's gonna want your crash dumps 06:13:18 its up to date based on the latest drm from ports 06:13:47 the only interesting thing is the driver wants tigerlake firmare when the CPU is alderlake 06:13:57 so I may test it and remove the tigerlake stuff 06:14:21 now I dont know wtf the guc and tuc stuff is but 06:14:32 i dont think alderlake should want tigerlake tuc/guc stuff 06:14:37 well I'd guess drivers are gonna be up to a year behind bleeding edge - is it a closed BLOB or all source? 06:14:55 intel doesnt have blobs lik nvidia 06:15:17 kinda wish I went with the ryzen as i have never had issues with amdgpu 06:15:31 my desktop has ran with uptime of 90+ days with X running with no issues 06:16:28 ok so can be troubleshot. Linux driver compare miht malsop reveal something [probably have shared code between them]. Is it Xorg or that newer fork - they use differing ABI's, just szayin' 06:16:29 but this is a gen 14 CPU so i dont expect it to run "yet" 06:16:50 i havent used wayland with it yet 06:17:03 I wouldn't bother. 06:17:18 dont think we have a choice 06:17:19 * shbrngdo holds nose at mention of the 'W' word 06:17:59 think the gfx world is Linux based or else we would still be using our own drivers vs ported linuxkpi stuffs 06:18:10 Xorg has a fork now, just may not be in ports. I'll resist W like I have systemd, pulse audio, and anything "Poettering" on Linux 06:18:41 cracking sounds kill pule sound works fine (TM) 06:18:44 heh 06:19:20 Xlibre - https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/10/xlibre_new_xorg_fork/ 06:20:05 yeah saw that 06:20:08 thats not in ports 06:20:16 and I dont think it would fix my intel issue 06:20:18 If NV and AMD cannot keep their drivers up to date with X I'll stick with hardware that CAN. 06:20:24 the issues lies with drm\* not X itself 06:21:00 My work relies on use of the 'DISPLAY' variable 06:21:07 latest is 6.9 while the latest kernel is 6.18 06:21:19 so it lagging a lot :P 06:22:00 but i dont expect a gen 14 CPU to be 100% useful 06:22:14 Xlibre has a different ABI so the drivers need to be recompiled BUT should work with minimal adjustments... probably 06:23:17 most linux distro default to Wayland as thats the norm 06:23:51 I deliberately exclude that option. W drives me to religious warfare heh 06:24:49 like using Devuan for Linux boxnen and VMs. There was an attempt to have DreeBSD on Debian a while back though. Wish it would have happened! 06:24:50 I wasnt happy when freebsd decided to remove drm and make it a port 06:25:30 as thats just makes it harder for average joe to un X and a desktop 06:25:44 something I like about openbsd 06:26:17 well... drm is a "slap on" when you look at how X evolved... but lots of things are ports-only now, including bind and perl (and gcc) 06:26:49 whats the pint in gcc when you have clang ? 06:27:13 a .000001% speed increase doesn't sppeal to me 06:27:23 15 warns you that the psm driver is depracated - supposed to use that other thing now [but xorg-server is not hauling it in as an auto dependency - oops] 06:27:47 i have a USB mouse 06:27:53 so thats not a problem 06:27:59 and shouldnt be for most people 06:28:13 it uses USB mice also - supposed to help with hot-plugging if yiou also use a tablet 06:29:39 yeap im sure that would piss off the people who still use a 90's era PC 06:30:06 i have a recent MSI mother baord with a PS/2 dual port 06:30:12 evdev - that's the one - replaces functionality of moused and psm 06:30:15 not sure why though 06:30:51 bios says I have a com port as well 06:30:57 PS2 still needed for older KVMs and a lot of people [prefer PS2 KB performance, like ganers 06:31:09 but not sure how to actually use it if there is no DB9 port 06:31:46 my dual-port boards do not sdeem to work with my KVM switch though. I probably need to rrplace it. That means running cavles... bleah 06:32:45 I bought a splitter cable, mouse+KB female to singlwe 'dual port' male 06:33:08 i had a blackbox KVM 06:33:14 works except with the KVM, so I end up using PS/2 to USB 06:33:16 however the IPKVM are exp as hell 06:34:25 most people like to use the most recent stuff i am more of "if it works leave it alone" 06:34:32 so i still run plasmas with x11 06:34:37 I found a cheap 8-port online with cables, just need to get it. Next year. but is HDMI not VGA so may have to adapt one machine that does not have HDMI [it's not that old, had winders 10 on it, but not 11 compat] 06:34:38 * cpet likes to use KDE 06:34:40 :( 06:35:27 also it only has USB but that means 2 easier-to-deasl-with cables to 8 machines (not 4). Netter. 06:35:28 my be another test to try and see if xfce4 runs better 06:36:15 plasma = dpsce heater ha ha ha 06:36:24 space heater 06:36:42 i stopped liking gnome after version 3 06:37:11 and I was a fan of E and even manage to create a mailing list and group for it 06:37:22 but they release so many releases that it makes it hard to keep up 06:37:39 oh another thing I noticed, seems sendmail might be on its eay out, allegedly being replaced with dragonfly mail (go fig). My imap setup still needs updating to newest sendmail, gonna work on that next. 06:37:55 thats been a thing for a long time 06:38:03 we dont need a full blown mail MTA 06:38:20 shit the only reason for that is to have crontab be sent to us 06:38:46 when we can get rid of it by adding all that to a log file 06:39:45 mate is a lot like 2, and cinnamon uses gtk 3 but also similar. Personally, as long as I can nuke 'Adwaita' from high orbit I'm fine with any gnome-like environment that does not force too wide of spacing between things (like gnome 3 panel) 06:40:35 ive grown to like my 2 options 06:40:45 xfce4 for low end HW KDE for higher end 06:41:06 anything named after a breakfast meal doesnt appeal to me 06:41:43 I liked KDE until it got all MS Metro "2D FLATTY" especially window decorations. 'TraditionalOK' is what I typically use. 06:42:05 i like it cause its the most complete WM 06:42:16 i instal it and I have the most basic shit installed 06:42:27 while most others i need to customize 06:42:39 the fact that it looks or resembles windows means nothing to me 06:43:15 it was like MS, Google, Gnome, KDE, and everyone else who'd never worled in console-only mode suddenly "felt" like the display ought to look like a 4 inch phone screen... with hideous color combos that blind you and too much white space 06:44:23 its an irritation that no amount of hydrocortisone can stop... the 2D FLATTY vs 3D Skeuomorphic. 06:45:03 thats some deep shit man 06:45:04 hah 06:45:59 fortunately in the OSS world we support thingass like TraditionalOK and so on. I have not had time but want to re-write a webkit-based browser that uses an early-2000's looking menu+yab system instead of hamburger menu 06:46:09 thats like going to FTX with only the bare minimal essentials 06:46:42 i wish netsurf was still a thing 06:47:27 Komqueror used to be nice. I thought it did a great job of doin the minimum 06:47:33 if it runs the web and bare minimal youtube support 06:47:34 im in 06:48:06 shitbook, instashit, and all that other crap i dont care about 06:48:10 youtube likes kto break older browsers. I don't know why the target has to remain moving like that... 06:48:11 but i need my youtubes ;/ 06:48:46 I hang out on X and use grok a lot. Grok saved me a few hours getting my system up in a VM 06:49:08 the AI shit from that asshat musk ? 06:49:10 its knowledge of FreeBSD and Linux rival the ents 06:49:35 sometimes it's wrong but so far it leads me in the right general direction 06:49:46 google does that for me 06:49:50 despite the hate here 06:50:05 let me ask on IRC and wait a day when I can search google 06:50:21 google is too slow. too much tasil chassing on clickorama 'circular links' 06:50:43 yes google is slow if you are on a 56k modem 06:51:30 I'd actually tell someone who's being too much of a n00b [not researching] to post on grok.com and save the output. write your own manual to RTFM, heh 06:51:54 back in the early 90's thats all you got when you asked 06:51:56 RTFM 06:52:05 it's not bandwidth slow - it's "getting to the answer" sllow 06:52:08 shbrngdo: you need help with X RTFM 06:52:23 shbrngdo: you need help compiling freebsd RTFM 06:52:37 now you say that people get upset 06:52:42 or call you handicapped 06:52:43 heh 06:52:57 heh, not that bad I hope, or IRC channels like this stiop being relevant 06:53:14 librechat stop being relvalnent when you have topic whores 06:53:30 asking you to goto #freebsd #x11 #help #$@ 06:53:43 in theory being old and foggy vision and using a cane would qualify 06:54:20 i have a 1100 page VA medical file 06:54:26 i think that qualifies more 06:54:27 heh 06:54:36 seriously though lemme give you a gok I did... 06:55:24 i think we are the only ones here drinking beer 06:55:32 there is no other person that has as shity tpying as me 06:55:36 * cpet looks at shbrngdo 06:55:39 :p 06:55:47 this - solved a specific problem with rsync in vbox - https://x.com/i/grok/share/N2ECsTrJH5F1hrEaWwJB4ogjd 06:56:21 isnt that that AI shit? 06:57:57 i spent a day trying to block as many bots i could 06:58:06 next day I had the same shit but different IP's 06:58:10 gave up 06:58:36 now i just add in a regex with a block to my web server and it give 500 responces back 07:00:27 yeah, but I use a fun trick with these things. 1) create a guest-level user, 2 allow ssh from the login I use with Xorg, 3) set up a shell script that invokes the browser in the context of that user using DISPLAY (yet another reason not to use W), and then it logs in to a different user, runs the invasive web page, and maybe dumps history on the way out, all in the context of guest user 07:01:23 I do that for slack, X, and web sites where I must enable script. noscript for everything else 07:01:36 i just dont use that crap 07:01:55 its been what 3 years and X is still named as X formerlly twitter ? 07:02:06 no choice for me - need slack for work, and bill paying needs script 07:02:47 never used slack 07:03:03 i remeber when I was still in and they wanted me to use that secure messaging shit and I refused 07:03:18 which made my squad leader to manayly send me SMS messages 07:03:19 heh 07:03:48 but anyway the value here is that you have a history of all of your grok analyses. I clean it out once in a while, keep relevnt ones. Sometimes saves hours of brain-numbing circle-clicking 07:04:03 i dont want a history of anything I say 07:04:34 yeag true grok.com does not save it if you use anonymously 07:04:35 this is why I pretty much refuse any sign ups from any services that isnt deemed necesary 07:05:11 ack - same here - and the corollary, always go through privacy settings and disable all of it 07:05:22 i really wish that more sites used or offered yubikey auth 07:05:33 and I like that the VA id.me does 07:06:03 and from a sandboxed login, which in FBSD and Linuc you can clone as different login home directories easily enough. 07:06:38 VA - and Social Security and Medicare too. 07:06:52 yeah used to be just there ow auth 07:07:14 which I forgot my 32 char password and I had to get a letter sent with a new pass key 07:07:21 then they added id.me 07:07:23 never had to do it 07:07:33 too much identy theft. At least there's no captchas, or if there were I forgot [now that I saved their cookies] 07:08:05 i havent had that much scams from the VA 07:08:07 oh yeah is id.me the same asd the gummint ID site? One login or somethibng 07:08:19 login.gov is another 07:08:27 you need that to access usejobs.gov 07:08:39 that's the one. I had to sign up through that, then it's doen. 07:09:19 have not dealt with VA but technically is an option if I ever needed it. Unlikely now. 07:09:35 i goto the VA atleast once a week 07:09:56 hopefully you are getting proper med care there. 07:10:27 as long as its not mental health related the VA isnt bad 07:10:52 i was bitten by a dog at the park and went ot the VA and was taken care of paid nothing 07:11:16 the issue is mental health that shit is so fucked it aint funny 07:12:03 I'm in a Navy town (San Diego), could probably do that if I ever needed to. 07:12:25 im in a seabee town Gulfport/MS 07:12:29 evening. 07:12:41 i live about 15 mins to the Navy base and about 20 to Keesler 07:12:59 ack - Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most 07:13:48 lost mind 07:14:01 heh after 11PM Now. surprise. I still gotta fix sendmail on the new server 07:14:25 i started using opensmtd for years now 07:14:50 getting email to work is 1 line 07:14:58 getting smtps auth is 2 lines 07:15:04 anyway if I wee coaching someone on a difficult probelem I'd probably type it into gerok, then paste a link to the answer 07:15:06 an getting dovecot and imap is about 6 lines 07:15:36 cpet: sounds like Perl 07:15:38 nothing against sendmail 07:15:49 but m4 is not fun to play with 07:15:57 I'm using cyrus. Reasons, mopst f them to keep me familiar with enterprise-like solutions 07:16:17 most of my time ive used exim 07:16:23 i do not like psotfix 07:16:51 my ISP forwards to my server, ehich then receives it (sendmail), then routes to cyrus, which also has secure MAP my old tablet can use when out of home-office. 07:17:14 these days with as much hassle it is to setup you own mail server 07:17:17 i dont bother any more 07:17:31 i just use proton 07:17:48 I've toyed with exim , that's about it [being the (old?) goto nailer for Debian derivatives for a long time] 07:17:52 you have to deal with DKIM, SPF, DMARC 07:18:03 and whatever crap big blue decieds to add in later 07:18:17 shbrngdo: you cant be that old 07:18:41 SPF is the important one, not too hard. ISP has instructions even for proplr who manage their own domains 07:18:50 people I mean 07:19:03 cpet: none of those are really a problem. it's the rabid anti-spam measures that waste a ton of time 07:19:28 it is if your IPs are classified of residential IPs 07:19:48 then all that doesnt matter as it all aut send to spam 07:19:51 I wouldn't mind the old RBL blacklists but I guess things move around too rapidly so nobody supports those 07:20:05 and proton does a decent job 07:20:37 i could setup a mail server on a VPS 07:20:45 but thats over kill 07:21:00 not long ago, I had to once again deal with some retard blacklister who decided to blacklist IP ranges based on AS links. in practice they had blacklisted an entire fucking A-class of IPs in one swoop. 07:21:36 you would think that having a biz line and a /29 you would be exempted 07:21:38 but nope 07:21:43 I'm hosting 4 email domains on my (home) server with postfix, backed by postgresql, with dkim, spf and dmarc, really simple 07:21:44 yeah nope 07:22:05 i condem doing any DB with email 07:22:13 if its not a enteprise with 5000 emails 07:22:20 fuck f ill setup a DB with my email systen 07:22:38 well domain handling for official web site is s rent-a-vm from opalstack, then FBSD with a /28 block from AT&T [which just got a bit more expensive last month] 07:22:52 fuck ATT 07:22:55 is all i can ay hah 07:23:05 i have sparklight 07:23:15 and I have yet to have any issues after 3+ years 07:23:28 ATT was breahed i think a few years ago and I wish it utter death 07:23:37 not only thst there infrature is utter shit 07:24:23 the ISP has mostly unlimited SMTP outgoing so I send everything through that, then SPF reecords on DNS includde it. 07:24:33 cpet, 100+ aliases 07:24:58 I guess it's a /29 block - 4 or 5 uisable addresses 07:25:27 * shbrngdo needs to leverage that somehow 07:26:13 running only an inbound MX server is very simple and painless, but outgoing SMTP is a nightmare these days 07:26:50 i like to setup email the old school way as in you login and tye in mail i dont care about imap and all that 07:26:53 true, easier to just forward it and make sure SPF stays up to date 07:27:10 hoever when your ISP has you whole block as residential and email auto sends to spam 07:27:20 there reay is no point is setting it up 07:27:32 SPF eliminates a lot of that need 07:27:33 simple things like moving the server to another location, IP address changes? well, you're not getting a single mail through to any microsoft managed address for the next few days to few weeks because they default to assumption that IP change = server hacked 07:27:47 most ISPs publish SPF you can include 07:28:07 ack - and instructions to make it easier for noobs 07:28:11 it doesn't also make diddly squat difference if you have SPF, DKIM, MARC etc all configured precisely correctly 07:28:16 now I have been paying for proton for years now and it include 3 hosted domains 07:28:21 so i just use that 07:29:11 one fairly large german mail domain refuses to take in any mail that comes from a server which' PTR record doesn't match A record + helo 07:29:39 oh ok - yeah that's opften simple. opalstack is lower level, but it uses a reasonable web interface and hosts linux vm's and dedicated for [I assume] reasonable pricwes. 07:29:54 i use contabo 07:30:11 i dont use any us based services as there resource to price ratio is utter shit 07:30:41 Koston - yeash they need to fix that - the HELO I mean. I don't blame the ISP in Germany 07:31:05 this is why I stpped doing my own email 07:31:27 spam should be done by the end user not the server 07:31:52 if you dont like spammer guy spamming you use procmail to kill it 07:32:10 it's still fun to play around with. I actually set up a system to snd mail through a local business connection some time ag - mailing daily spreadsheets to a customer. perl script and shell. 07:32:44 thats a direct connection to the same client 07:32:48 wont cause any issues 07:32:49 it's running on a Raspberry Pi behiond a firewall appliance at a customer's office. 07:32:54 sending email to microsoft or gmail 07:33:03 well they expect all that shit configured 07:33:13 and "properly" 07:33:20 it can be tricky. Fortunately Perl modules are up to date on that 07:33:48 the issue lies when you use gov stuff 07:34:00 I haven't yet dealt with OOTP though. 07:34:05 i have sent emails to the VA and it never getting sent due to filters and such 07:34:25 er, TOTP 07:34:52 cpet - yeah that is irritating. 07:35:04 cpet: favourite from few years ago, gmail stopped accepting mail after switching outbound smtp to a new IP. which was also hosted in GCP. best the gmail support could say was "fix your outgoing server" (which was perfect all along) and then mused "maybe it's some spam prevention but we can't tell you any more about it" 07:35:16 but to be fair looking at my history the idiots at the VA have called me and emailed me using the wrong contact info on more occations i can count 07:36:46 the only google service I use is youtube 07:37:02 after 11:30 - I should work on sendmail [was procrastinating]. later. my server is nesrly up, mail is the last step I think other than HD swap + test/re-config 07:37:34 mail is easy with sendmail on freebsd 07:37:36 cpet: google has become cancer 07:37:41 just read the Makefile 07:38:11 despite peope hate toward sendmail sendmail is still a powerful mail server 07:38:42 Koston: yeap nice to see thay had the same fate as MS did in the early 90 as a monopoly 07:39:05 cpet: my thoughts exactly 07:39:50 Koston: howeber I cant ay anything bad about bill gates as he has donated probaly more of his wealth than any other tech person 07:41:58 how many could've? 07:42:18 a few actually donae others dont 07:42:50 now donations are tax write ups 07:42:57 so theres a good and a bad to everything 07:43:19 can't operate a business in the US anyway without annually donating to some or other charity 07:43:20 same goes for secueity 07:43:55 as fare as I know there is no limit to that 07:44:04 so a company can donate a buck and still be valid 07:45:15 but people dont realize most donations are tax write ups 07:47:17 they double as that, but much more important reason is the american culture expecting businesses to donate to charity 07:47:50 somehow, you can run the most hawkish underhanded business known to man but as long as you make annual donations you're good 07:48:38 similar thing to giving tip for waiters in restaurants. you can refuse to tip, but that's generally a terrible idea 07:49:03 i tip if you trest me well 07:49:10 if not i dont bother 07:49:15 if that makes me an ass well 07:49:19 im an ass then :P 07:49:40 I tip or don't depending almost entirely where I'm at 07:49:57 in finland? almost never tip. in thailand? always tip. 07:51:08 there was a restaurant in GA that had a message on the menu we auto add a 15% tip 07:51:20 i dont like american beer so I asked for a guiness 07:51:37 anyone knows that pouring guiness takes a bout 5 minutes and it pours bottom up 07:51:47 i got mine in less than a 1 with 90% foam 07:51:52 i asked for a new one 07:52:06 i was charge for two i said im not paying for foeam 07:52:10 er foam 07:52:33 bill came i disputed they took it off 07:52:44 what pissed me off was the auto 15% tip 07:53:07 i paid and then I charged it back at my bank as shity service and not what i asked for 07:53:19 afer about 2 months i got my money back 07:53:49 i miss the no-tip culture 07:54:06 as yes the person who called me a jackass for trying to help him 07:54:08 hello 07:54:20 i apologize 07:54:56 there still is a no tip culture 07:55:02 you just have to fight for it a bit 07:55:33 and if you have a amex card that shit is gold 07:55:54 i meant in places like france 07:56:00 as they have a procedure that if you dont receive the service you asked for you get a refund for it 07:56:02 bill comes, pay, leave 07:56:26 well the US is garbage compares to most if not all .eu 07:56:27 heh 07:56:45 it is :| 07:57:03 and if you look at the politics 07:57:07 well :( 07:59:50 seems like my issue was resolved with bastille 07:59:56 this is nice 10:25:23 with a freshly installed freebsd 15.0 to upgrade/patch is it still freebsd-update that should be use or is it pkg update/upgrade? I guess freebsd-update will be removed in newer releases? or? 10:33:34 nwe: freebsd-update will be removed in 16.0 as it is now (effectively) deprecated 10:33:51 16.0 will be released in 2 years, 15.x will continue about a year after than 10:33:53 that* 10:34:00 so you will have approx 3 years before mandatory pkgbase 10:34:34 as for how to update a freshly installed 15.0, it depends whether you choose pkgbase or not in the installer, if you did then you use pkg, if you didn't then you use freebsd-update 10:34:52 freebsd-update will not run if it detects pkgbase as it will destroy your system 10:34:55 (or so I heard) 10:36:12 iirc you can check pkgbase by grep -i freebsd-base /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf 11:19:18 speaking of pkgbase how does that cope with __FreeBSD_version? 11:21:24 Can __FreeBSD_version affect more than one package? If so does that mean that they always get updated atomically? 11:52:50 polarian: on this newly re-installed I choose pkgbase, but Im not really follow when upgrading with pkg is it like pkg upgrade -r ? 11:55:06 polarian: I have it in FreeBSD.conf... https://pastebin.com/ijTbFiQx but why is it no enabled when I during installation choose "PKGBASE" (new way) :) 12:21:01 nwe: afaik pkg upgrade will do it 12:21:17 or you have use -r flag to specify the repository of FreeBSD-base 12:21:29 its like on Linux 12:22:06 nwe: unsure, if you uncomment it I dont think there would be any harm 12:23:36 polarian: okey so pkg upgrade will replace both freebsd-update fetch /upgrade? 12:25:20 freebsd-update is completely redundant and wont work on a pkgbase system 12:25:25 as its delta updates 12:31:40 so later on its only pkg update for both package and "base" system ? 12:32:45 Maybe the question already has been asked, but how does this work when upgrading from 14.3? Do you also get the choice, or does this require lots of (manual) work afterwards? 12:54:45 nwe: yes 12:55:03 there is discussions on whether there should be separation but right now afaik 12:55:06 they will be updated togerther 12:55:43 Afterglow: you update as usual, using freebsd-update, and then you use pkgbasify which is a script to convert from delta to package 12:55:55 then for now on you will use pkg upgrade instead of freebsd-update 12:56:22 thanks polarian, clear answer 12:57:29 https://github.com/FreeBSDFoundation/pkgbasify 12:57:48 that has all the corresponding information you might nee d 12:59:03 Afterglow: as for installation bsdinstall will ask you within 15.x whether you would like pkgbase or delta updates 12:59:23 this will be removed in 16.0 12:59:33 although someone said recently that theres plans to make this reversible? 12:59:50 I have also heard talk about an inverse script (depkgbasify) to convert back to a distribution set system... 13:00:06 ^^^ this would be useful for those who want to update from srdc 13:00:08 src* 13:01:05 First line of the github page: "Both the pkgbasify tool and pkgbase itself are experimental"... I'll wait a bit then. Thx for the info though 13:18:08 Afterglow: its meant to be stable in 15.0 :0 13:18:10 :) 13:18:12 or so I heard 13:37:12 polarian: a stupid question, do you still use freebsd-update or pkg upgrade -r etc? sound like the easiest way it to re-install the computer then run a convert-script.. 13:37:43 nwe: I update from src as I hate pkgbase :) 13:38:00 but if I wasn't I would still use freebsd-update, its slow but it works 13:38:06 polarian: with make buildworld/kernel installkernel/world? 13:38:06 and also there is freebsd-rustdate in ports 13:38:11 nwe: yeah 13:38:50 I check you checked out stable/15 first :) or are you living on the edge and running CURRENT? 13:41:03 whats that freebsd-rustdate? 13:43:20 an implementation of freebsd-update in rust, as that is faster then the sh monster freebsd-update 13:58:46 i wonder if i should rewrite it in c 13:59:17 why would you throw away memory safety? 13:59:49 polarian: feels that it´s easier with the old way then :) in /usr/src 14:04:45 nimaje1, Rustland is a cult 14:27:32 cyric: works for me now. 14:29:43 there are more memory safe languages, lua would be an option if you want something in the base system, but ports have others like pascal, java, python, … 14:30:27 Rust is just a quite nice language, so I can understand that people want to use it. 14:34:14 I love how you'll find some app you want written in Rust. . . the README.md on the git repo says to use the 'cargo install ' "package manager." 14:34:33 It creates a ~/.cargo/bin/foo file. . 14:35:04 Then you go to #rust and ask if there's a way to specify the destination and they first thing they tell you is "It's not a package manager!" 14:36:00 dvl: you mean pkg update? just checked, works for me as well 14:36:33 cyric: I refered to: ] Ugh, is it just me? pkg: Failed to fetch https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/FreeBSD:15:amd64/quarterly/meta.conf: Unknown error 14:36:50 dvl: so it didn't work for you as well back then? 14:37:13 cyric: I didn't try when you said. I was AFK then. 14:37:44 dvl: ah ok, wonder what the issue was (local or not) 14:38:04 cyric: All I tried was `fetch URL` 14:38:57 CrtxReavr: You can use --root for that. 14:39:07 nwe: I am on origin/releng/15.0 14:39:16 aka RELEASE 14:39:25 I'm pretty sure cargo stands for cargo-culting and is meant as a warning that you shouldn't use it, no idea if there is a good build system for rust, but using rustc directly in a Makefile works ok-ish 14:39:35 nimaje1: cause rust is shit 14:39:46 MelMalik: +1 14:40:23 erk, I could also just manually create /usr/opt/bin/, add it to the system path, and toss it in there. 14:41:19 CrtxReavr: I meant cargo install --root /usr/opt/bin will do that for you, but yeah there is more than one way to do it. 14:42:26 erk, you realize cargo(1) makes no mention of that switch. 14:43:42 CrtxReavr: Yeah a bit odd, it is listed as one of the first things on `cargo help install` 14:53:57 https://termbin.com/ykda 14:56:10 LOL, termbin is apprently blocked here, I guess it was used to host malware or something. 14:57:06 https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=cargo-install 14:58:57 Imo the 5 point list in that man page is quite clear. 15:31:36 After upgrading to 15.0-RELEASE I get the following: WARNING: sysctl vfs.zfs.min_auto_ashift is deprecated. Use vfs.zfs.vdev.min_auto_ashift instead. 15:33:04 Also as a jail spins up I see a note that bge0 is deprecated 15:37:27 mariuss: You're probably setting that in /etc/sysctl.conf. I know I was. 15:38:26 vkarlsen: indeed. Thanks for the hint! 17:11:17 polarian: okey, I think I will do the old way rebuild rebuild kernel and world.. all the tools confusing me, freebsd-update/freebsd-version and pkg etc :D 17:21:04 polarian: polarian 17:23:23 nwe: up to you 17:23:28 freebsd-update is simples 17:23:46 freebsd-update -r 15.0-RELEASE upgrade 17:23:49 reboot 17:24:05 freebsd-update install 17:24:08 reboot 17:24:10 done 17:24:59 and if you are pkgbasified then pkg upgrade 17:26:23 (uncomment FreeBSD-base from /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf if it exists) 17:35:16 polarian: hehe yeah :) I tink I will go with /usr/src :). 17:40:43 nwe: im a little reluctant to use pkgbase yet so src for me as well 17:42:49 cpet :) 18:03:01 lol 18:03:12 if in doubt, build from src :p 18:09:05 polarian: you can also build your own packages for pkgbase after successful build 18:13:29 mzar: yeahhh no. 18:13:33 f*ck pkgbase 18:14:36 :-/ 18:14:39 why? 18:15:51 I have already aired my views on pkgbase literally everywhere, pointless me redoing it for the 50th 18:15:53 time* 18:15:58 plus I might get banned if I dont shhhhh :p 18:17:52 I will give it a try, at some point 18:24:15 Do thumb drives not have smart? 18:26:33 polarian: :p 18:27:42 Macer: they have 18:27:47 which problem did they try to solved when chaning from freebsd-update/fetch to use pkgbase ? 18:29:52 now it´s feels more confusing which tool we should use :P depending the first installation method you did :P and also use a lua-script to convert to pkgbase.. what I like with openbsd is their sysupgrade and syspatch really smooth :P 18:32:11 Macer: actually these USB sticks don't have it, at a glance I read it wrong 18:33:28 Yeah. Mine don’t seem to work. 18:33:46 I guess the ones with smart are actually SSDs with a usb interface. 18:33:57 Like a corsair gtx 18:34:22 No trim support either it seems. 18:42:48 nwe: speed 18:42:54 freebsd-update is slow 18:43:03 and binary patching is always going to be slow 18:43:34 binary patching has the benefit of small sizes, but in the mdoern day when bandwidth is more abundant downloading a gigabyte of packages to update is a non-issue for most 18:43:50 I completely disagree with it though 18:44:57 freebsd-update does binary patching? I thought it was a rip and replace with patching text? 18:45:11 yes, when you compare to make install{kernel,world} then frustrated is crawling 18:45:47 s/frustrated/freebsd-update 18:56:19 skered: afaik its binary patching 18:56:55 I haven't read all the src so I am not 100% how it works 19:15:39 0/36 19:19:42 polarian: I guess so. bspatch. 19:20:53 haha 19:20:55 bullshit patch 19:20:57 hahaha 19:21:03 and bullshit diff 19:21:05 hahahaa 19:21:32 im sorry... I dont know why I found it so funny 20:49:16 polarian, it's not necessarily bad, just its community is a cult 20:49:40 MelMalik: I dislike the lang :p 20:49:45 not just because its community is a bunch of toxic teenagers 20:49:53 usually soydev webdevs anyways 20:50:13 I think its a language which tries to do everything, and does nothing well 20:50:22 its low level, but then its not, its high level but then it snot 20:50:41 its memory safe, but then its not as you need to use unsafe for low level 20:51:50 there's better ways to express «soydev» w/o falling to toxic rightist stereotypes 21:01:45 for a neutral descriptor of the typical meaning, you might try «framework-using web dev»; a pejorative might be «framework addict». 22:07:37 has anyone experience the open termainl failed: not a terminal error when they perform a tmux a on a remote server? 22:08:04 i am currently trying to connect to my server, which has running tmux sessions, and when i try to do a tmux a i get an error open terminal failed: not a terminal.. never saw this before.. 22:08:35 yeah, your client and server versions are mismatched. it was in the changelog, and the pkg message. 22:09:11 uhh 22:09:14 i am still on 14.3 22:09:17 that is very odd 22:09:37 version of tmux, not freebsd. 22:10:03 errr, that is what i get for not paying attention 22:10:11 i do not recall but if you say, i will run with it :) 22:13:37 check 'pkg info -D tmux' on that host. 22:13:40 voy4g3r2, Are you connecting to it over ssh and forgot to include the -t option? 22:29:28 the terminal error is a red herring. the problem is very likely the update 22:30:39 Although I appreciate the high reliability of FreeBSD and the ability to achieve high uptime sometimes it is still a good idea to reboot the system. 22:38:03 or you could just wait that nothing important is running anymore and then pkill tmux and go from there 22:54:32 rwp: i tried that option and did not work 22:54:45 ridcully: it looks like that will have to be the way.. even though i got some stuff 22:54:56 we shall see if my python code can handle the abrupt stoppage.. which it should 22:56:46 well it is all fixed and even killed the wrong tmux in the process :) 22:56:47 thank you 22:57:36 and look at that my python program detected the down LLM embedding model and restarted flawlessly 22:57:39 sweet! 23:22:45 https://ibb.co/album/z8Qzf9 <-- i made a philly. theoretically. 23:59:39 how to make ada0 bootable?