00:11:10 are official FreeBSD 15 torrents coming or should I just get them from FOSSTorrents? 00:12:37 darwin: i'm not sure we've ever had official torrents? iirc one developer maintains them as a side project, or at least did in the past 00:21:24 ok; thanks 00:30:36 Oh, he left. There's https://wiki.freebsd.org/Torrents 01:10:13 Woohoo updated my media server to 15 and pkgbasified it too 01:10:16 Still works 01:12:04 mason: yeah, that's what i was thinking of 01:55:00 once upon a time we did 01:55:05 have torrents 01:55:38 now i personally dont understand how downloading a torrent is any faster than downloading freebsd iso at 119MB/s 01:59:35 but i guess it helps in serving it 02:04:48 I prefer torrents cause my network can be bad sometimes 02:09:09 doesnt that starlink go down when it rains ? 02:09:30 when I had viasat it did 02:09:40 our rural satellite-to-tower Internet can go down in heavy precipitation 02:09:46 but thats higher orbit sats while starlink uses lower 02:10:06 i'm at 2600 Club! 02:10:10 only provider we had in the barracks 02:10:16 and it sucked 02:10:32 i used to buy my 2600 magazine 02:10:42 are you your computer's pet because it attained artificial intelligence? 02:10:44 i stopped 02:11:33 actually cpet is first letter of my first name first 3 letters of my last name 02:18:11 i endorsed 2600 Club once--without explaining what it is--in UNIX/*BSD and/or GNU/Linux channels and got criticised. I'm not saying you HAVE to attend your local club, but it may be the only such they know what your OS is and some use it 02:20:39 installed FreeBSD UNIX & Slackware GNU/Linux on my new (second-hand) ThinkPad 20SA... but seems the GRUB2 from 2022 is too old to boot FreeBSD 14.3? 02:20:50 i.e., I use Slackware to boot everything 02:21:11 heh FreeBSD UNIX 02:21:21 i read something changed with filesystem journalling since then I may need to do a more manual filesystem setup 02:21:25 UNIX-Like* 02:21:45 that's what it was called in official documentation when I was in college. It's a 'genetic UNIX' (according to the definition on Wikipedia) 02:22:22 even if all official UNIX code is gone now, it's just replaced/replicated by free versions that do same 02:22:46 this saddens me 02:23:01 * cpet looks at ek 02:24:16 anyway, what about the filesystem thing--I have to manually setup the old type of journalling before or after I do newfs? 02:24:24 the only way UNIX can be called UNIX is if certified by the open group 02:24:38 and so fare its AIX HP-UX Solaris and Mac OS 02:25:46 Mac OS is certified POSIX UNIX now? 02:25:54 has been for a very long time 02:25:54 I did not know that. 02:26:00 let me google 02:26:26 darwin: You shouldn't need to do anything for the (FBSD) bootloader to work. Not sure what you would have to do with Slack. 02:27:16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification 02:27:29 cause you know wikipedia is a good source of info 02:27:38 yeah, that works, I guess, but I want to use GRUB2... which there hasn't been updated (for stable OS) since 2022 02:27:52 Doesn't surprise me. They have the money to pay to be certified as compliant. 02:27:56 ek: slackware is old 02:28:17 and i dont know what the deal with in regards to releases 02:28:31 current is acive but the dewd releases a new release once every blue moon 02:29:19 I would think a GRUB2 loader would handle FBSD's stuff just fine. Unless there's "fancy" stuff missing for UEFI or something? 02:29:29 i always like using the elilo loader 02:30:16 but I have gotten used to 1 HD per OS 02:30:20 rather dual booting 02:30:37 i don't know that it's UEFI... might be 02:30:50 elilo is UEFI aware lilo is not 02:31:04 yeah, it's not using UEFI 02:31:08 however you dont get the cool logo when you use elilo 02:31:52 whats your cnfig say ? 02:33:13 https://unix.beer/~chris/grub.txt 02:33:16 should work 02:34:58 Dual boot! 02:35:08 I haven't dual booted in years. 02:35:18 i just buy another drive 02:35:26 than deal with boot loader bullshit 02:35:39 used to have similar to that but now just trying to chainload 02:35:54 i can't put another drive in the ThinkPad 02:36:17 yeah and this is why i cant do laptops 02:36:45 the only reason why I have 2 mini PC is cause i cant have 3 desktops 02:37:21 i kind of like my full tower which can fit like 14 drives in it 02:38:05 Well, and there's VM's. I don't think I've dual booted since those were a thing. 02:38:07 but I wanted to install windows and play games again so 02:38:27 i found a lenovo mini PC at bestbuy for 699 02:38:32 so I installed freebsd on that 02:38:59 That's some $$. 02:39:00 ek: VM's are fine until you have to use windows with its stupid requirments 02:39:50 ek it wasnt bad i added another NVE in it so it has mirror as a minimum 02:39:59 cpet: I don't really run Windows very often, but I don't have problems with VB or Fusion (on my laptop). 02:40:14 ek: I wanted to play warcraft 2 02:40:15 heh 02:40:41 Yeah. That'd be different. I'm not a gamer. 02:40:55 neither am I but i do like to play the occasional game 02:41:03 I just boot it to run some software specific to Windows or something when there are no other options. 02:41:06 wine plays most games fine 02:41:24 but not modern games 02:41:48 i can play ff7 in wine fine 02:41:54 but I can not play FF& remake in wine 02:41:59 what about KRogue? 02:42:21 if it takes more than an hour to setup I give up 02:42:35 i dont have the patience any more for that 02:42:56 Sounds like some work. 02:43:30 I was lucky that my gfx issue was a cable 02:44:02 but running KDE 02:44:19 Mem: 1013M Active, 4312M Inact, 311M Laundry, 9167M Wired, 2056K Buf, 625M Free 02:44:25 my need to get more ram but bleh 02:44:47 There's some fun FPS browser games as well 02:45:00 KDE3.5 was the last KDE I liked 02:45:09 you can play warcraft 2 in a browser 02:45:23 someone told me KDE2 or KDE1 or the pre-1 like beta versions were better 02:45:29 but if you already own it for 15 years 02:45:38 darwin: they were 02:45:49 i first tried KDE in the lat 1.x series 02:46:12 i use KDE when HW can support it or xfce4 02:46:17 you mean 1.n or you're talking about something like pi after the decimal point? 02:46:46 im sorry that not adding an e at the end doesnt make sense for you 02:46:52 let me retype it just for you 02:47:01 i first tried KDE in the late 1.x series 02:47:34 the issue was using x (for reals, or non-terminating decimals) rather than n (for natural numbers) 02:47:54 i got the 'late' 02:48:15 how do you get KDE and 1.x and get pi? 02:48:38 because of using x rather than n to denote 02:48:42 recall earlier algebra? 02:49:20 still doesnt make sense 02:49:21 but ok 02:49:51 when they introduced variables, they maybe said n=1, m=2, etc., then some other variable names for rationals (terminating decimals) like a=1.5, b=2.5 then finally x, y for non-terminating (infinite) decimals 02:50:22 like x,y could be pi, e (Euler's constant), phi, etc. 02:50:34 shit and o0x1eef said im handicapped 02:50:35 hah 02:50:39 or even something like 1.000... just the zeroes go on forever 02:50:57 so if I say freebsd 14.x 02:50:58 Technically I did not say that but I'm not going to relive that again. 02:51:05 you will still get the same ? 02:51:08 yes 02:51:27 i might think it's something like 14.314159265358... and the numbers go on forever 02:51:41 hrm 02:51:58 if you said 14.n, then n=1, n=2, or n=3 and it stops right there 02:52:12 how old are you ? 02:52:15 47 02:52:25 ok ill take it 02:52:27 it's not required, just the mathematical convention with these variable names 02:52:58 same with x86 versus n86, etc. 02:53:13 so if I go windows 9x 02:53:15 same thing ? 02:53:38 yes; there was no 3.14159...x86 (pi 86) or windows 95.000... with infinite zeroes 02:53:48 pi goes on forever 02:54:26 technically you could call Windows 95 one that had infinite zeroes if you want, then some later versions numbers like OSR 2.1 02:54:51 think you need to use some common sense when omeoens goes freebsd 14.x 02:54:56 and not go back to math 101 02:55:00 but they didn't do that. Like '1', '1.0', '1.000...' are all the same thing 02:55:13 it's a little farther than math 101 but I always go back to mathematics 02:57:32 how about freebsd 14.x x=3 ? 02:58:56 you can say so; just it's unconventional 02:59:09 Hey, are most of you on this channel runnig FreeBSD as a desktop OS? Or should I go to the #freebsd-desktop channel to find people who do that? 02:59:36 i use it mainly for desktop but also use it on a few servers 02:59:38 Just ask your question and see who replies 02:59:57 Okay, cool 03:00:05 that desktop channel might have more to do with X Window System, Wayland, etc., though desktop historically also just meant command-line 03:00:42 meidam: just ask here if you get a stay on topic well just ask again 03:01:12 Okay cool, makes sense 03:01:34 or do what I do and get regex.pl and just filter it out 03:04:32 I've tried once in the past to install freebsd on a usb stick and installed kde plasma on it. Worked fine. Followed a video by RoboNuggie for the post install stuff. I've been thinking now that it could be interesting to try installing freebsd on my extra m.2 ssd, since I have an extra one now. To try it out 03:04:56 I run linux on my main one 03:06:08 * V_PauAmma_V runs FreeBSD on his only computer, which is a laptop that's on his desk most of the time. 03:15:47 i run freebsd as my main OS 03:16:00 when I want to play games I switch the LCD to HDMI 03:16:52 Reminds me, we're going to poke around with Steam on FreeBSD this weekend. 03:17:08 We want to try both Linux compat and WINE. 03:21:58 Getting steam deck/steam machine/steam frame just to install FreeBSD on it would be quite based 03:23:49 Speaking of games, https://deadshot.io/ is good fun 03:24:02 Works in the browser, works on BSD 03:26:37 i still play Pingus 03:26:38 ;/ 03:31:06 and viruskiller 03:31:08 :D 03:32:26 I forgot how bad it is to play FPS on a trackpad. I think I'll look for a strategy game. Something like command&conquer but browser-based. 03:38:49 ahh cool you can play Red Alert 2 in the browser https://chronodivide.com/ 03:39:41 you can play a lot of game 03:39:45 just older games 03:43:11 That's amazing. Thanks! 03:55:01 wasnt there a handbook article on hw to update a ports tree installed from bsdinstall ? 03:56:01 dogs arent happy with me :( 03:56:02 cpet: maybe? Occasionally it might get weaker 03:56:47 what are you on about ? 03:59:01 o0x1eef: I'll have to try that game 03:59:16 The starlink 03:59:21 I'm reading backlog 03:59:50 Apologizes 03:59:56 for what ? 04:00:03 *apologies 04:00:08 I can't spell 04:00:13 neither can I 04:00:20 I should've clarified what I was replying to 04:00:48 where do you live that requires a sat inet option ? 04:00:51 I need to figure out my dual boot for this media server so I don't have to keep going to bios 04:00:57 Rural area 04:01:30 i live in gulfport MS 04:01:33 now its your turn 04:02:26 so I can understand installing src from bsdinstall 04:02:36 as tat chances of you need to update it is slim 04:02:39 but ports ? 04:03:03 would be nice if there was an howto that explains how to update it without rm -rf /usr/ports/* then cloning it again 04:11:43 cpet: Just don't install ports from the installer. Pull the clone "--depth 1" and be done. It's the quickest way. 04:13:43 wheres the fun in that ? 04:13:55 I dunno. Time saving? 04:14:15 i am a disabled veteran 04:14:20 i have all the time in the world hah 04:14:35 Well, then, quit yer' bitchin'! ;D 04:14:42 im not bitching im asking 04:15:13 im basking 04:15:15 :P 04:15:19 You're always bitchin'. :) 04:15:38 the world is a better place if you bitch 04:15:39 Bitchsking* 04:15:54 I agree. No need to stay remain stagnant. 04:16:01 Hi guys, new here and stumbling through trying to teach myself BSD. Just wanted to say hello! 04:16:02 s/stay // 04:16:03 if I didint bitch then navy fed would still only limit me to 300 deposits 04:16:14 snegopady: hi 04:16:17 snegopady: Hello! Welcome to FBSD! 04:16:29 <3 ty! 04:17:18 I need a drink. It's Friday, correct? 04:17:23 * ek partakes 04:20:19 so 04:20:41 git clean -fg && git pull https://git.freebsd.org/ports.git 04:20:43 works 04:20:53 ek: so hah 04:52:38 nice to see my raidz expansion running again. i love how it started at 14 days until complete like 8 hours ago and now it's down to 9 days :) 04:56:39 expanding ? 04:59:55 yes 05:00:01 i'm growing a vdev/pool 05:00:35 which i now call eliminating the weak.. since 2 disks died in the process. they were probably on their way out regardless. 05:00:38 seems like after 14 days of doing this you would be adding mroe wear and tear to the drives than you would if you just compiled world 5 times 05:01:03 probably :) i doubt it's actually going to take 14 days. like i said it's dropping like a rock. 05:02:25 i'd have to agree with you inasmuch most people would probably expand when their pool is becoming full so the expectation is that people expand when it would have the most impact on the lifespan of the disks 05:03:08 either that or (like i was planning to do) they'll start with a small vdev and just buy a new disk every month or so to max out whatever they're using. like i have a 36 bay isilon from the before time 05:04:21 given how the reflow works... i wonder if it actually fixes free space fragmentation 05:05:02 32.3T / 69.2T copied at 48.8M/s, 46.67% done, 9 days 03:58:21 to go 05:05:11 it was 8 days 6 hours like 15 minutes ago 05:05:16 *9 days 05:12:17 is this personal of work related ? 05:12:33 personal. if it were work related i'd use mirrors. 05:14:24 yeah I dont know how I would ever have 70 TB of anything 05:15:00 but the wear a tear you are giving your drives while doing this kinda makes me just want to backup to a ext USB and redo the array 05:18:09 if they still sold smaller drive I would buy those 05:29:08 Macer: you only have 70TB -- Those are rookie numbers LOL 05:52:39 rookie numbers ? 05:53:08 i always wondered why people would rather download a movie than stream it when most ISPs offer unlimited BW 05:56:18 I guess to own it and have access to it all the time. That would be my mind thought on it. 05:56:35 If it disappears from streaming, you can't watch it anymore. 05:56:36 you dont own it 05:57:10 that's why i buy, not stream. 05:57:11 It's now your data. 05:57:40 Sure. Or buy it. You have the data on-hand any time. No reliance on BW or a streaming service. 06:00:02 whats the point in having BW if you dont want to use it ? 06:00:30 Well, when a service goes down or no longer exists, what's the point in paying for it? 06:00:43 you go outside and do shit 06:00:50 Sounds dangerous 06:00:56 It sure does. 06:01:00 Outside is scary. 06:01:01 says the person who called me handicapped 06:01:09 you people are weird 06:01:12 Says the cripple. 06:01:13 Technically I did not call you that 06:01:24 directly or indirectly you did 06:02:29 I said your pattern of behavior when it comes to debate is handicapped, which just means it is to your own disadvantage, but yes, it is completely valid to understand it how you did, and I apologize for that 06:03:39 i had an old lady call the cops on me for parking in a handicapped spot, when the cop arrived he just smailed have the lady a ticket for wasting his and my time told me thank you for your service. 06:04:02 o0x1eef: Well said. You're alright in my book. 06:05:30 ek: how is basing how you percieive something automatically make you appear handicapped ? 06:06:13 You are conflating identity with behavior, and we're more or less back where we started 06:08:36 hrm 06:09:06 «says the cripple» naked ableism out of ek 06:09:39 cpet: That's not what I was saying. I was saying that o0x1eef apologized even though they didn't really need to. It was the good thing to do. 06:10:02 MelMalik: I'm just giving cpet a hard time as we know each other a little better than most. :) 06:10:12 In other words, you identify as a disabled person (or as you said, handicapped) but my comment did not claim that about you at all, it said a pattern of behavior puts you at a disadvantage because you don't try very hard to understand the other person you're talking to 06:10:17 He's not a cripple (although, he pretends to be) 06:10:23 even worse 06:10:42 «pretends to be disabled» is a common trope ableists use to deny disabled people needed accomodations. 06:12:28 ek: explain why i get a pay check every month from the VA is "i am not cippled" ? 06:12:32 heh 06:13:10 MelMalik: I think you're slightly misunderstanding the jest that cpet and I banter about. He gives me a hard time and I retort. It's all in good fun. He isn't by any means being degraded (by me). Just catching some crap in return. 06:13:49 This isn't the zone for amical banter. That can be done at your local pub, or over a 'cue. 06:13:49 o0x1eef: you do realize i really dont care and you are appoligizing for the mear benefit of giving you a hard time about it ? 06:14:05 cpet: Stop faking, sir! You can't just beat up elderly ladies whenever you want. 06:14:07 MelMalik: dont start with your stay on topic non sense 06:14:25 MelMalik: I think that might be the problem with cpet and I. We basically treat IRC like the pub sometimes. 06:14:26 ek: why not ? 06:14:34 Sans cues, obviously. 06:14:53 cpet: You're too agile. 06:15:15 bleh 06:16:10 ek: if koobs was here we both would of been banned by now 06:16:12 ek: :P 06:16:36 FWIW there's also #freebsd-social 06:16:48 Surprisingly enough, koobs never kicked me. I do only seem to get into trouble when you're around, though. 06:16:59 ek: sometimes streaming services will lose licensing to something and no longer have it. Or it will move to another service. 06:17:06 ek: heh 06:17:46 Macer: Correct. That's my argument. If I can have it available all the time, it's worth the purchase. 06:17:50 o0x1eef: this channel is quiet enough to not require constant stay on topic 06:17:52 And I think most people are kind of sick of having to get a new streaming service for anything and everything. It’s like old school cable on steroids. You’d wind up paying $5,000/year if you decided to get all the services. 06:18:04 ... provided it's something I actually want to purchase. 06:18:12 Macer: if you own a amex platinum card its free 06:18:38 up to 20/m 06:18:49 so for me thats peacock and disney 06:18:55 I’m not a fan of “digital purchases” either. That just sounds like lifetime renting and still relies on having someone feed it to you instead of pulling out a disc lol 06:19:12 so waiting on 70TB's to expand 06:19:17 is justified i guess 06:19:29 Or those crazy overseas IPTV services that are $100/year for everything under the sun. Some of that is wild. I don't trust it. 06:19:38 Well. It isn’t the expansion that was the problem. It was the two disks breaking in the process. lol 06:20:00 It’s storage Darwinism. 06:20:13 Only the strong survive. 06:20:24 turn tv on, load hulu watch movie 06:20:26 loop until bored 06:20:59 But it’s my first time doing it.. took a long time to get raidz expansion. That’s great stuff. 06:21:18 yes but if it takes a week to expand 06:21:28 which can cause excess use on drives whichc ause them to fail 06:21:32 i dont see the point 06:21:39 It doesn’t take a week. I was just commenting on the time estimation. :) 06:21:49 now you sound like o0x1eef 06:21:58 i didint say that 06:22:04 i said this 06:22:49 I don’t know. Disks will live or die. I have disks in that same server that have over 10 years of run time and are still tip top. 06:24:21 yeap i once bought 6 drives 06:24:29 poped them into my 3ware raid array 06:24:37 a day later 1 died :( 06:24:50 i dug a hole and laid it to rest 06:25:23 Yup. I’ve had the same happen to me. New disks and one died out the box. It’s hit or miss. But I love you can scale now. 06:25:44 expand an array takes a week 06:25:50 backups and resotre and create new array 06:25:52 less time 06:26:01 You need the space for the backup. 06:26:12 If you don’t have another huge pool you’re sort of out of luck. 06:26:19 Or some other means. 06:26:52 well I dont backup.. movies, pictures, emails, chat logs, logs, 06:26:58 so my backup is about 15megs 06:28:37 I’m actually going to make a new pool with 4 giant disks and just scale it until the isilon is filled up. Just to future proof it. 06:29:19 youll be done in a month 06:29:22 Like buy a 20TB drive every so often. 06:29:37 I wish. I don’t have money like that. Which is where expansion makes sense. 06:29:39 do you actually have 20 TB of data or you just like having large disks ? 06:30:36 i wish they still sold 128GB SSD's 06:30:41 I just like having large redundant data storage. It’s nice knowing it’s there. It’s all fun and games until cloudflare goes down and takes 3/4 the internet with it. 06:31:06 shit when the internet goes down I take the dogs and goto the park 06:31:16 really said to see that the whole world shuts down when internet goes down 06:31:28 sad* 06:31:55 Yeah well… it’s either use it or go back to clay tablets. 06:31:59 i cant look at twitter 06:32:07 oh noes 06:32:11 I can’t either. I just use mastodon. 06:32:30 i dont do any of that social media crap 06:32:39 with the exception of late night youtube shorts 06:32:46 I was on a big thing trying to move over to decentralized services and killed off all my conglomerate accounts. 06:32:58 i did that years ago 06:33:02 Like mastodon and matrix etc 06:33:20 i dont know I would rather tell ek hes a weirdo in person than online 06:33:22 but thats me 06:33:30 I was a little shocked that there aren’t any decentralized chat apps.. simplex and session are probably the only two. 06:33:41 And simplex is more of a supernode one. 06:33:52 i kind of miss AIM 06:34:11 Matrix is federated.. and it gave me nothing but grief but can do some neat things. 06:34:33 In the end I just got rid of matrix and went back to irc. Tested and true. 06:34:53 Maybe I’ll try out xmpp again later. 06:35:07 jabber 06:35:11 was fun 06:35:22 see if that old server is in ports 06:35:44 I mean irc would be fine if it could just do a couple more things but… 06:36:06 nope 06:36:24 I’ve used irc since the 90s … so it’s just eternal. 06:36:46 And being niche nowadays it keeps the riffraff out lol 06:37:06 if you say so 06:37:20 Oddly enough. This isn’t true for usenet. I set up usenet just to see what was going on… and it’s essentially endless viagra spam. 06:37:56 I hadn’t used it in years… I just thought it would be nice to go retro “forum” 06:38:22 thats kind of what I think when I hear people have lots of data to back up 06:38:23 "{ 06:38:25 :P 06:39:04 At some point I need to get back to seeing if I can swap everything off proxmox and use bastille to work on migrating everything to jails and bhyve 06:39:14 Using fbsd 06:39:32 yes seeing how bhyve is included in freebsd 06:39:52 It’s their thing. 06:39:59 it is ? 06:40:16 Afaik yes. It’s developed by the fbsd team. 06:42:48 FreeBSD is just so awesome with everything it does. IMO if it is an option for people they should be using it for their servers. 06:43:38 im sure they do 06:43:41 or some do 06:44:54 i run openbsd and netbsd on it 08:21:03 already crashed 15.0 twice 08:22:46 crb: It'd be useful to report bugs if possible. 08:27:23 mason: yep totally would but this is a headless systems that run my DNS so when it goes down I can't get into the BMC, but I 08:45:32 ouch 08:45:40 is there no crash log created? 09:17:45 didn't see anything in /var/log/messages 10:32:11 var/crash? 12:38:12 I really need to get Ethernet when I move out 12:44:44 ethernet is always a good thing to have 12:56:16 I need to also set up a syslinux boot entry for fbsd so I don't have to keep going into bios to switch to the media server 12:58:16 I had one for chimera cause that was my original media server so I might be able to modify that config once I SCP it over 12:59:48 Can syslinux chainload the fbsd bootloader? 13:01:48 I'd like to use the batocera Linux boot menu (syslinux) to pick either bato or fbsd 13:02:07 is it grub2 ? 13:04:11 No it's syslinux 13:05:50 Alternatively, can the fbsd loader chainload syslinux? 13:07:12 moderh hardware relies on UEFI and with this method everything is possible 13:07:37 Hmmm 13:07:50 I'll try the syslinux setup first I guess 13:07:59 for BIOS boot you can use GRUB2 to chainload or load and boot FreeBSD kernel 13:08:15 GRUB2 know how to load and boot FreeBSD 13:08:23 knows* 13:09:54 Yeah I'll try installing grub if syslinux doesn't work out 13:46:34 so i found my config, it was for chimera's grub, in order to chainload syslinux 13:46:57 So now I'm wondering if I should somehow install grub on a USB and use that to dual boot? 13:48:02 aren't you using EFI on this machine ? 13:48:35 Yeah but I don't wanna mess with the batocera setup in case I make it not boot 13:51:07 What do you recommend I do? The two systems are on separate drives 13:53:02 refind 14:04:15 On which system? 14:07:28 it's system independent 14:08:18 Alright, but wouldnt it overwrite one of the bootloaders when I install it? 14:08:29