00:02:41 mason: been posted to ML before 00:02:43 x2 00:02:46 neither time got a repl 00:02:48 reply|* 00:02:55 first to freebsd-pf, nothing 00:03:00 second fwd to freebsd-questions 00:03:02 nothing 00:03:15 I dont want to file bugzilla because if its a config problem, thats going to waste dev time 00:06:21 Hrm. :/ 00:06:30 If no one answers, waste the time. 00:08:33 dch: where is root password? 00:08:48 just ask your question dude 00:19:09 polarian: you won't know.. unless you ask 00:25:14 ughhh 00:25:18 i hate doing bugzilla though 00:25:28 I always feel like im reporting something really fucking stupid 00:25:46 maybe if I make an alt to post my stupid questions I will be more open about it :P 00:25:50 sorry more open to doing it* 00:28:16 polarian: Eh, either you'll learn something or something will be fixed. 00:29:25 learn something and look like a fool, or report a legitimate bug and get praised for it 00:30:17 I've lost most of my fear of looking like a fool, if I have something to learn from the process. 00:30:24 at least you learn something if you're wrong 00:38:47 polarian: maybe i am late to the game, but can you ask here? 00:39:10 well, writing here that you have a problem, but not telling what it is truely wastes everyones time 00:39:15 if no one knows, you will find out quickly, plus it will help you formulate your idea for potential messageboard posting 00:39:54 polarian: i have asked plenty of stupid questions, it is what it is.. 00:39:57 * TommyC plays Jeopardy theme song 00:40:41 dvl: where is root password? 00:40:49 that is the ultimate test.. sometimes you "feel" smart with jeopardy but most times i feel like a total idiot. 00:43:05 Chip1972, Is there something you need help with? If you have a question just ask it. 00:43:36 voy4g3r2: I'm implying we're still waiting for a question (since the Jeopardy theme song is most notably played when contestants are writing answers and everyone's waiting). 01:47:03 rwp: I need root password for mfsbsd-se-14.2-RELEASE-amd64.img 01:48:06 try blank? 01:48:19 as in, just hitting enter 01:48:32 llua: hacker. 01:48:55 or we could just, ya know 01:48:57 look at the documentation 01:48:58 https://mfsbsd.vx.sk/ 01:49:04 Root password for all images: mfsroot 01:49:05 The root password of mfsbsd is mfsroot. https://mfsbsd.vx.sk/ 01:49:08 hate to be a superhacker here 01:49:46 Don't hate it. Embrace it! You are the superhacker here! :-) 01:49:51 hh 01:49:52 haha 01:50:24 worked 01:50:37 does this mean i can upgrade my skimask? 01:50:52 https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/computer-hacker-wearing-ski-mask 01:52:28 Personally I prefer the faceless hoodie for myself. 01:53:10 But the moral of the story and the lesson here is to simply ask the question and if people know then they will help with it. 01:54:37 it is to give the wrong answer, so that the person that likes to 1up people will correct you. 01:57:54 No one answered "xyzzy"? Kids these days. No sense of Adventure. 02:04:11 plugh! 02:04:37 V_PauAmma_V, And also, I did actually laugh out loud at that one. :-) 02:05:37 maybe we n eed to get V_PauAmma_V a faceless hoodie 02:05:42 llua, There is a pro-life-tip idea to ask, then sock puppet another account to give a terrible answer, because people might not have time to answer a question but they will make time to correct someone else's bad answer. 02:08:01 Read documentation? Preposterous! I don't even read what people type in IRC! 02:12:47 LOL! 02:26:16 guys stop bullying the newbie 02:26:24 be nice to each other 02:34:57 you should superhack 02:40:22 topic pirates++ 02:40:52 if something mentioned here is available in ports its a freebsd topic 02:42:55 topic piracy? 02:43:07 its an evil thing 02:43:40 so the default wm on the dvd is gnome :( 02:45:27 hmm 02:45:38 look ketas is alive 02:45:42 it's not always possible to read docs 02:45:58 depends on docs maybe 02:46:01 docs are included on the DVD 02:46:18 eg fbsd handbook has been always easy read 02:46:19 and you can fetch a pdf 02:46:27 but who knows 02:46:37 you dont know so I dont know 02:46:42 we all dont know 02:46:47 hah 02:47:03 but reading is very hard 02:47:09 for ketas 02:47:24 i don't mean bytes 02:47:30 and letters 02:48:07 if you cant do a apropos x 02:48:24 you shouldn't freebsd 02:48:51 so ketas fail 02:49:11 you also have to get it 02:49:16 messing with xsl is not fun 03:07:59 TommyC: yes, i get it :) 03:17:15 I should swap out my net ISO to the memstick one but I also like using it to test whether WiFi chips are supported 07:43:25 FYI - GMAIL users, pay attention to your E-mail account settings: https://workspace.google.com/blog/identity-and-security/protecting-your-data-era-generative-ai?e=48754805 07:44:11 Now( at least it become public ) your emails including attachment will be fed into AI 07:46:14 Pay attention https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#settings/general -- so called "Smart Features" option ( turned ob automatically ) 09:05:06 they were always doing this 09:05:08 its google 09:08:43 nerozero, thanks for the heads-up. I have checked mine, and /Smart Features/ was already of. Away with degenerative AI. 09:09:35 ant-x thumbs up 09:10:02 also check "Google Workspace smart features" 09:10:08 there is a button 09:10:19 press it and disable staff there 09:11:45 dch, yeah, a man respecting himself, and considering a human being should not use AT ALL! big corps like: Google, Facebook, X, ... you name it... 09:12:03 hm, now I found linux_base-rl9, would be nice if -c7 would point there as a possible replacement, as CentOS 7 is EOL and thus the -c7 port is deprecated 09:12:27 and sorry for OffTop 10:18:59 nerozero: thanks for sharing that 10:21:49 voy4g3r2, 2x thanks to you, if you share the same 10:22:07 or explain/ help others 10:24:49 * ant-x has moved on to althernative email providers, but has not been able to migrate is Gmail mailbox anywehre, yet. 10:39:39 already done :) 10:40:28 Have you found a good IMAP-migration tool? 10:41:04 not here.. i am not a huge fan but i have had my email since the beta days of the service.. i am "attached" to it. 10:42:43 So did I, but I want to detach, badly. These days, Gmail is not much better than other providers. 10:43:27 It is actually worse than many because of lack of human support and the ease to lose an account inveterately. 10:44:44 i can see that, i am no expert on IMAP migration tools as do not have sufficient time to address it.. kick the can down the road. 10:45:04 I do know it has a data migration tool.. where you can download your inbox in a mbox format.. i have used that tool.. if that would work for yuou 10:46:54 There are also a couple of third-party tools for syncing of IMAP boxes. I will be trying them. 10:59:47 it's a pain to host independent email server these days 11:00:09 i do it but i have my own trick 11:00:11 s 11:06:53 I've used imapsync quite a bit in the past, worked well 11:15:31 ant-x on windows users can backup emails using MailStoreArchive 11:15:40 Thanks. TODO: delete TOP N largest e-mails to bring the total size down to 5Gb -- the limit at rambler.ru . 11:16:04 problem with email server is the reputation score and the blocklists 11:16:23 on Nix you can do that with tool like OfflineImap 11:16:36 Archiving on HDD? Interesting. 11:16:37 very difficult to deal with 11:16:54 you can re-upload them on demend 11:17:01 *demand 11:17:21 or use Mutt/NeoMutt 11:17:32 ms literally has a monopoly in deciding who is spam and who is not 11:17:40 if you buy its exchange for hosting, you'd probably get green lights 11:18:28 https://www.offlineimap.org/ 11:58:51 voy4g3r2: scroll up to my messages two nights ago 11:59:59 nerozero: The best way to mitigate that is by just hosting your own email server. 12:01:09 remiliascarlet, +1 postfix + dovecot-pigeonhole + amavis + clam + spamassasin 12:01:25 not that hard to configure 12:24:45 nerozero: you are joking right? 12:24:51 email is notoriously a pain in the arse 12:25:11 especially when dovecot decides to make major breaking changes to configuration 12:35:48 scottpedia: I just use migadu for email, highly recommend. I also have a tutanota email and a proton mail email from before I knew about migadu lmao 12:39:57 okay alright thx for the ping up. will take a look when freed 12:42:49 Sounds good 13:05:26 dali 13:06:18 polarian, no, I did a research once ~10-15y ago, wrote a notes, and updating them if needed, so ~1-3 day of research should be enough if you know what you are doing 13:07:00 of course not for modern "normies" with "ai" backend 13:11:41 This morning, I'm going to try moving a zpool mirror from a pair of 1TB SSDs to a pair of 128GB SSDs without snapshots or dd. See my proof of concept using file-based devices : https://gist.github.com/dlangille/2578c132dc6177e2eb94ac426892da70 13:15:02 dvl - zfs send / zfs receive ? 13:16:16 make an extra storage, create a snapshot of the pool ( if it is rootfs -- make a recursive snapshot ) 13:16:40 export this snapshot to a storage ( you will gate a "free" backup ) 13:17:05 consider removing onsolete old snapshots prior to make exporting snapshot, to reduce size 13:18:11 you can pipe output, say to zstd - `zfs send .. | zstd > backupfile` 13:19:06 then do whatever you like to your storage, shrink or extend or partition, then create new pool and then force restore data from a backup 13:20:40 does that even work dvl ? 13:20:45 i tried it before 13:21:27 you can take vdev out? 13:21:50 ketas growing does work, shrinking does not ( works only with sending/receiving into new pool ) 13:23:12 no i mean dvl shrunk it 13:24:12 I didn't understood the meaning of the steps he wrote 13:24:42 if that works it's a great hack 13:25:33 well look at zpool list 13:26:03 this is "too smart" to me 13:26:10 pool is smaller now 13:26:32 dd if=/dev/random of=/test-pool/random1 bs=1m count=10 <<< espatially using /dev/random ... 13:26:44 which is way slower then /dev/zero 13:27:16 and WHY do all of that if ZFS provides a WAY BETTER and safer way to do the same thing 13:27:40 and 2 way mirror on !! files !!! 13:28:05 what 13:28:37 zpool add test-pool mirror /tmp/12.raw /tmp/13.raw 13:29:08 well it has uses 13:29:13 but it's a test 13:29:21 YES !!!! 13:29:32 just for testing weird staff not for data transfer 13:30:53 cannot remove mirror-0: out of space 13:31:04 unfortunately not 13:31:59 was able to remove mirror-1 tho? 13:40:51 i can't do that with files too 13:41:05 dvl: version there? 13:42:29 remove: Removal of vdev 1 copied 36K in 0h0m, completed on Thu Nov 20 15:42:04 2025 13:42:33 96 memory used for removed device mappings 13:42:42 was able to remove smaller tho 13:43:22 polarian: i do not have the buffer to respond accordingly.. allow good though 13:45:35 eh i made a pool larger 13:46:40 if openzfs has added zpool smallifier option it's fun 13:51:45 unsure hmm https://www.reddit.com/r/zfs/comments/10fnghr/is_it_possible_to_shrinkremove_disk_is_a_pool/ 13:51:48 i mean 13:52:03 supposedly it sucks evem if it works 14:14:57 nerozero: WIthout using send | recv 14:15:23 extremely bad idea 14:15:38 ketas: Yes, it does work. 14:15:46 nerozero: Please elaborate. 14:16:17 I will not do that on a production dataset ... 14:16:27 too scary 14:17:47 nerozero: Please elaborate on how one approach is riskier than another. 14:19:27 This is a zroot. It is booted from. I want to migrate to other & smaller media. How can I do that with send | recv without renaming the zpools. And to rename the zpools, must I boot into a thumbdrive and do that renaming? 14:19:31 in conventional you have an independent backup copy all the time 14:19:38 ^ I am speculating. 14:19:39 on a different storage 14:19:55 nerozero: In this scenario, the original drives are untouched. 14:20:17 Just removed from the zpool. 14:20:39 One of the things I am going to test: can I still boot from the old media. 14:20:52 yes the "my way" will require additional boot device while doing so 14:21:02 so this is too smart to me 14:21:19 and that is why I'm not ready to risk 14:21:24 my data 14:22:05 nerozero: Fair enough. Have you ever migrated from smaller drive to larger drives using `zfs replace`? 14:22:23 This is pretty much the same thing. 14:23:12 not on the production system 14:24:31 you see, I'm too old not to afraid of that kind of juggling with large data storage, while not having a backup copy, which prior to executing is tested and successfully restorable .. 14:44:46 I recall using paper tape, punch cards, and soldering memory cards. Age may not be the factor here. 14:45:13 somebody just write the fucking change into zfs 14:45:17 and we're done 14:45:19 As for testing, that is what I'm doing now. That gist was a proof-of-concept (yes, we can do it with file-based drives). 14:45:30 ketas: It is in ZFS. That's the feature I'm using. 14:45:37 but i get why zfs was designed like that 14:45:59 no i mean direct replace 14:46:23 i never checked, does zfs put mirror data to same block? 14:46:58 but yeah 14:47:31 ketas: I don't understand what is meant by 'direct replace' 14:48:04 i mean if you have pool with 256m used, it would be perfectly reasonable to replace 1g mirror disks with 512m 14:48:21 zfs verifiea and copies it off 14:48:56 now, i don't know why it's supposedly nono 14:49:00 like direct 14:49:07 replace a b 14:49:14 ketas: That's the move I'm doing. 14:49:37 no you replace vdev in pool which is... shady 14:49:48 real slim shady :p 14:50:16 ketas: i suspect there would be too many guardrails with that approach 14:50:36 since the topology isn't always mirrors 14:51:05 but idea of replacing storage device is that zfs takes used blocks and copies them to new device 14:51:16 ketas: it is not shady. It is part of the man page: https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=zpool-remove The man page mentions it directly "Removing a top-level vdev reduces the total amount of space in the storage pool. " 14:51:25 verifies copy and tells ok dev replaced 14:51:26 This is a recently added feature. 14:51:33 hah 14:51:58 how to rename mirror 1 to 0 tho? 14:52:03 "The specified device will be evacuated by copying all allocated space from it to the other devices in the pool. " 14:52:04 you can't? :) 14:52:36 ketas: That's the problem you're concerned about? ;) 14:52:44 i am 14:53:02 other thing is that keeps block map 14:53:20 which wears off supposedly 14:53:29 i donno, i think it's slick 14:54:41 i mean i don't condone the zfs crapping but apparently generic storage needs those features :/ 14:55:30 in real storage you of course run disks to (near) death 14:57:43 disk arrives, gets into testing, gets into array, fails, goes into crusher 14:57:57 I'm nearly ready to test this with disks, not file-based devices. I'll paste the blog post URL soon. 14:58:18 yeah 13 was no go on this i tried again 14:58:50 ketas: I'm using FreeBSD 14.3 14:58:59 yeah i figured 14:59:24 at least now pool can be shrunk 14:59:26 with FreeBSD 15 comes `zfs-rewrite` - e.g. change compression algorithm, issue `zfs rewrite` - it rewrites the data in place (more or less). 14:59:54 cow=off? 14:59:58 wait not really 15:00:25 actually cow is zfs strength :p 15:00:30 one of 15:00:59 apparently zfs was designed to not touch data ever again 15:01:20 you put it on disk, you verify it, you read it 15:02:53 you don't really want it to change otherwise 15:02:55 oh and many run zfs with no ecc ram 15:03:00 wouldn't be much of a filesystem, would it 15:03:13 yeah but now it moves 15:04:35 if you recompress data already, just few more steps and you could do straight mirror shrinking 15:04:35 hey 15:04:57 now luna is also here 15:05:06 :) 15:05:14 yup 15:05:24 while listening to BSD Now: https://www.bsdnow.tv/638 15:25:29 i am having problems with X. not sure what the problem is...everything was working until 2 days ago after a reboot 15:25:58 now when i startx, system freezes after 1 second 15:26:10 so reinstalled 14.3.. same thing 15:26:19 i use amdgpu 15:26:32 and now i am trying with scfb but still crashes 15:26:45 however i noted i am able to start X with root 15:26:50 noticed* 15:27:48 where is the crashlog saved 15:27:49 ? 15:28:57 before reinstalling 14.3, i tested ubuntu and it works 15:34:30 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=285070 shouldn't this have been closed months ago? 15:40:53 oh boy. 21.1.18 still in ports it looks like, .19 has the security patches and theres now a .20 15:41:32 and phab doesnt seem to show any diffs awaiting review (although I am not good at checking) and bugzilla shows no issues, so someone hasn't attempted to port it and ran into an issue otherwise it would be on bugzilla 15:48:58 I assume it is not as simple as bumping it however, and I am clueless how xorg works 15:54:01 21.1.20 built just fine, and installed just fine... 15:55:18 X.Org X Server 1.21.1.20 15:55:37 hmmm... welp... I guess I can reboot and try it... whats the worst that could happen 15:56:45 that you get no graphic envoriment :p 15:56:48 but hopefully its fine 15:57:18 Xorg does not move so fast these days 15:57:51 luna__: if this is as simple as a version bump imma be pretty pissed off 15:58:03 heh 15:58:19 I get freebsd is volunteers, but having a high severity port just sit there is concerning 16:01:49 i wonder wtf went wrong 16:02:19 zeising being busy, not sure if he maintains Xorg still :p 16:08:12 ketas: what went wrong? 16:08:41 I will test 21.1.20 after I finish compiling 2 libreboot binaries 16:08:55 and if it works, I dont mind if I snag a port contribution from this frustration :) 16:09:10 i meant that xorg issue 16:09:37 what issue? 16:09:55 I speak a lot, you will need to be more specific :P 16:11:02 hernan604's one 16:11:16 why do you speak a lot? 16:11:18 :p 16:12:39 dunno, I struggle to be concise, so for the avoidance of missing the point, I just say everything :P 16:12:46 think of it like a Java stacktrace... 16:12:55 xD 16:13:17 hah 16:13:30 polarian is java stacktrace 16:13:41 :c 16:13:44 yeah i do it too 16:14:14 also typing it also means sometimes I realise where im fucking up :) 16:14:30 reading your own stuff back tends to end up with "oh im an idiot" 16:18:08 distributed rubber duck 16:21:52 For my next trick, add 3rd drive to mirror, remove 3rd drive from mirror, power off, remove 1st two drives from mirror, boot from 3rd drive. 16:22:41 polarian: the more senses involved in the understanding of a concept.. the quicker the brain gets to that conclusion or i am good.. 16:23:01 whiteboards are great for that.. standing, seeing, writing, and talk to one self.. multiple senses 16:23:23 guess i can stick around have a Firewall that runs FreeBSD 16:24:07 dvl: gracious 16:24:37 LxGHTNxNG: I think it's a simple thing to want... a backup boot drive, when you're mucking about with your boot drives. 16:27:27 ye 16:27:46 If I had another spare drive cage, this would be easier. 16:28:18 i hope that's not freshports production net 16:28:22 :p 16:29:13 voy4g3r2: my family make fun of me for speaking to myself 16:29:21 why 16:29:30 most do it 16:29:33 "its weird" 16:29:34 Because they have no inner selves :-? 16:29:36 ketas: That's mostly an AWS instance. I'm working on a Dell R730, about two feet to my right. 16:30:08 polarian: I often say things out loud to myself. It's one of the better quality conversations I have. 16:30:12 didn't you run fp primary in basement 16:31:03 dvl: well, at least yourself always listens, cant say the same about friends and family who tune out 16:31:16 i have done drawing and tables etc 16:31:32 and brain is weird 16:32:00 most material won't work and it gets tired 16:33:24 polarian: yeah.. thats one of those.. thats nice, stop mocking me.. just negative vibes.. if i lose arguments with myself.. that is a toally different problem. 16:35:15 xD 16:35:26 funny enough a beer sometimes helps me focus more 16:35:37 overactive brain, ends up trying to do too much 16:35:37 when i was 12 i ran away from school from hard math... and went to local library and was like oh what a awesome book, teaches how to wind own transformers (much harder than school things) 16:36:00 lol 16:36:06 ketas: were you a nerd by chance? :P 16:36:14 yes 16:36:56 what happens in coffee? 16:36:58 :p 16:41:41 unfortunately that also happens "computers", i wasn't watching video series on cpus because it was dry and boring but then on other hand i'm like hoooow do they work 16:42:55 ketas: lots and lots of FDE cycles :P 16:43:05 also wdym what happens in coffee? 16:45:06 google: etch-decode-execute 16:45:09 eh 16:45:21 the coffee effect 16:45:45 caffeine is sleep 16:45:51 herr 16:45:53 here 16:46:22 and in fact i don't like take it in any form 17:01:34 I dont like coffee 17:09:36 "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of coffee that thoughts acquire speed, that hands start shaking, that shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion." (quoted from memory.) 17:10:37 by the means/beans of coffee. 17:26:32 i have bean there 17:30:07 LxGHTNxNG: here you go: https://dan.langille.org/2025/11/20/creating-a-backup-boot-drive-from-a-zroot-mirror/ 17:42:40 im craving a beer now, but its only about to turn 6pm 17:42:50 I wanna save it a little longer then hack! 17:45:50 ketas: and I just got shutout: https://dan.langille.org/?p=9088&preview=1&_ppp=63e31b2718 17:46:01 send | recv might be my only option here. 17:46:55 polarian: never too early or too late for a beer 17:47:04 cpet: I only have one though 17:47:10 buy more 17:47:13 no lol 17:47:17 that means going outside :) 17:47:23 order it 17:47:25 and plus drinking a ton on a regular basis is not health 17:47:27 healthy* 17:47:29 have someome else briung it to you 17:47:31 lol 17:48:33 i brew my owen beer and I always hjave a brew ready after a brew 17:48:41 hah thats cool 17:48:45 I have wanted to get into homebrewing 17:48:52 but with current circumstances it is not possible 17:49:44 makes the whole house smell of oat meal 17:50:04 xD 17:50:14 what type of beer do you brew? 17:50:16 lager? 17:51:03 porter 17:52:39 ah cool 17:52:47 i dont drink horse piss 17:52:50 someone likes their beers malty :) 17:52:51 i drink black tar heh 17:53:05 sounds good 17:53:12 cpet: I would assume you would be a fan of guinness then? 17:53:27 we have guiness here, but I like my Paulaner 17:53:52 Dunkel? 17:54:01 Yeah 17:54:05 yeah thats a good one 17:54:27 I have drank quite a few Paulaner Dunkel beers in the past 17:54:34 currently have a wheat beer craving though 17:54:45 they started to sell then at Rouses so thats what I get 17:54:45 so I am clearing off the wheat beer shelf at my local off licence :P 17:54:53 brew take about a month 17:55:07 you manage to drink an entire brew in a month!?!? 17:55:22 its only 12 beers not like I have a whole brew ring 17:55:45 hmm more than I tend to drink 17:55:58 I resist the urge unless theres a reason to drink :) 17:56:16 im a disabled bet theres always a reason to drink 17:56:27 vet* 17:56:53 ouch 17:56:55 my condolences :/ 17:57:11 welp if its not the beer that kills ya, it will be the mental health issues :P 17:57:36 yeah i remeber someones asked here about it and someone else said no one cares 17:57:38 so heh 17:58:01