00:21:57 <rtprio> duncan: a?
00:28:57 <ketas> kerneldove_: those times are not fixed
00:32:33 <black2> key ketas man what's up
00:32:36 <black2> hey*
00:34:26 <ketas> black2 dude
00:35:03 <black2> what? ketas
00:35:31 <ek> What!?
00:35:42 <ketas> mej
00:35:44 <ketas> mek
00:36:23 <ketas> why features are added between b3/b4m tho?
00:36:43 <ketas> what is a "beta" anyway then
00:37:47 <ivy> ketas: it is normal that not all features planned for 15.0 are ready for BETA1, so they might be added later in the release cycle.  after RC, the threshold for adding features is much higher unless it's one of the small number of specific issues identified beforehand
01:07:38 <ketas> but this is strange as hell
01:08:26 <ketas> redefining those meanings are weird
01:10:35 <ketas> if i mentally explain myself it's a something before a real thing this of course works
03:32:45 <BarnabasDK> must be the most Fallout thing I have seen for a long time. Lucas Deeco ST3220 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSnk5ZbrWAo
03:39:11 <ketas> fun eh
03:39:23 <ketas> actual terminal
03:43:19 <BarnabasDK> never seen one that is a plasma based touch screen
03:44:13 <kerneldove_> does it mean something wrong if a server hasn't had any additions to /var/log/messages for a couple days? everything seems to work but i'm used to having tons of ssh key exchange errors from brute force bots, limiting icmp unreach response messages, etc
03:45:11 <ketas> reminds me what i did as younger one
03:45:49 <BarnabasDK> these would be seriously cool for a home automation project
03:46:01 <kerneldove_> ?
03:46:05 <kerneldove_> oh
03:46:13 <ketas> the times the print screen actually prints screen on dot matrix
03:46:15 <ketas> :p
03:46:59 <ketas> i have 2 old elotouch devices
03:47:18 <ketas> but i think the time moved on
03:47:38 <BarnabasDK> have a vt520 on my desk to my server in the basement
03:48:52 <ketas> so for automation status screens you have more fancy options, oled, lcd, eink
03:49:10 <BarnabasDK> I guarantee these are still in use. Sitting on CNC machines, laithes etc
03:49:39 <ketas> oh of course
03:50:37 <kerneldove_> tech that just works is so hot
03:52:03 <BarnabasDK> I know they are outdated, but as a massive fallout fan, they strike a chord
03:53:04 <kerneldove_> i'm surprised how well freebsd 'just works' since it's C/C++ and not rust
03:54:32 <BarnabasDK> question of testing I think
03:55:10 <BarnabasDK> and just because something is rust - its not necessarily fault free. Its fault free from memory allocation issues.
03:55:40 <BarnabasDK> I think the new uutils in Ubuntu is a really good example of that
03:56:32 <BarnabasDK> I really don't know what the h... Cannonical was thinking
03:59:26 <BarnabasDK> oh - and this is not a critique of rust btw. I like the language
03:59:51 <BarnabasDK> but if it isn't broken - don't fix it
04:00:51 <ketas> kerneldove_: i thought you like well oxygenated iron?
04:01:58 <kerneldove_> ya i love it, but that doesn't stop me from complimenting battle tested C
04:02:45 <kerneldove_> what might be cool is adding a bunch of freebsd tests to the harness in rust. a way, outside of the base OS, to let devs start using rust
04:02:46 <ketas> i wonder how to make ws2812b driver in kernel
04:02:47 <BarnabasDK> if we where to write uutils today - rust would be the tool
04:02:59 <ketas> i'm curious if i could make it
04:04:48 <kerneldove_> ws2812b mcu looks cool
04:05:28 <kerneldove_> kinda neat idea, a driver for an LED strip that has a great form factor for putting on any 1u+ server so fbsd admins could easily configure extended physical readouts of status
04:05:42 <kerneldove_> something that would be cross hardware platform (dell, hp, supermicro whitebox, whatever)
04:07:06 <ketas> it's more like shift register in it iirc
04:07:14 <kerneldove_> most servers have a front usb or 2, could plug it in, affix it with velcro or some other adhesive, and be able to easily see OS-level status readout just by looking at a rack
04:07:44 <kerneldove_> servers are great for hw level status readout but something integrated into OS level would be cool
04:08:35 <kerneldove_> like something i lost when i switched from hardware raid to hba mode + zfs is being able to see neat amber light on failed drive. well what if the led indicated drive error by integrating with smarttools?
04:08:43 <black2> kerneldove_: lots of dell servers have a front LCD display
04:08:48 <ketas> for usb you have other options
04:08:55 <kerneldove_> ya but like i said that's for hardware shit
04:09:15 <black2> you can customize it with programming I believe
04:09:44 <kerneldove_> even if so, how cross hadware compatible is that?
04:10:03 <black2> across what and what?
04:10:06 <kerneldove_> i'm thinking something way simpler, a few LED panel that's like a half inch by a couple inches in size
04:10:11 <kerneldove_> any brand of hardware
04:10:39 <black2> that LCD is like non-removable, only available in select dell server models
04:10:43 <ketas> so a usb screen?
04:10:58 <ketas> do we have them already
04:11:19 <black2> or just a buzzer or speaker coupled with tts engines onboard
04:11:32 <black2> (installed in the OS)
04:11:52 <black2> that's far more than enough for a status indication
04:14:05 <BarnabasDK> those led strips are very bright. I think this could easily turn into a bit of a disco in the server room. Most of them are designed for lighting
04:14:40 <BarnabasDK> unless you can get some more low output strips
04:14:43 <kerneldove_> nah speaker/tts would suck, needs to be visual. imagine trying to hear which server it is in a noisy DC
04:14:48 <ketas> i think they sold gamer status displays
04:14:56 <ketas> but you can make it
04:15:14 <ketas> using i2c screen, maybe strips
04:15:20 <ketas> uc and usb
04:15:37 <kerneldove_> speaker/tts would be fun for a workstation tho
04:15:38 <ketas> you could turn brightness down in leds
04:15:43 <ketas> diffuse them
04:16:12 <ketas> they also consume a ton of current so you need some limits to not blow up
04:16:47 <ketas> unsure how many dc's even need statuses on server itself
04:17:02 <ketas> this is not a hollywood movie
04:17:18 <ketas> tho some display somewhere could be useful
04:17:51 <ketas> in industry they are hmi's
04:18:03 <kerneldove_> well it's not like it'd replace monitoring systems, but rather tying those into the physical world would be cool
04:18:08 <BarnabasDK> being able to make a led flash on the server and on the disk is really nice, if you need to make a tech in a remote server room find the correct device though
04:18:13 <kerneldove_> there's a reason dell servers have blue light amber light
04:18:18 <kerneldove_> yep
04:18:37 <ketas> put single rgb there
04:18:38 <kerneldove_> 'just verify the serial number label on the server bro' <- hasn't relied on remote hands a whole lot
04:18:39 <ketas> :p
04:18:47 <kerneldove_> yea that's what i mean, a very few function led
04:18:55 <kerneldove_> no need for a whole display
04:19:06 <ketas> do any normal mobo have a gpio btw?
04:19:45 <ketas> why do i recall those fancy hetzner servers
04:19:51 <ketas> which look like mine
04:20:07 <ketas> who needs case eh
04:21:38 <kerneldove_> ya if your DC has air filtration and strict rules on no liquids could be worth skipping the case
04:22:01 <kerneldove_> i wonder tho what about like, paperclip falling out of shirt pocket of a tech while bending over or smth and shorting a server?
04:23:39 <ketas> unlikely
04:24:02 <ketas> yeah it was total fun to lool those photos
04:24:11 <ketas> just bare minimum hw
04:24:36 <ketas> they did order custom mobos tho
04:24:51 <kerneldove_> url to pic?
04:25:26 <ketas> there are so many
04:25:37 <ketas> hetznet dedicated is right query
04:26:05 <ketas> but
04:26:08 <ketas> https://hostingjournalist.com/uploads/news-pictures/Hetzner.jpg
04:26:58 <ketas> on other photos i see basic atx power contol bridge pcb's etc
04:28:29 <kerneldove_> looks good. i woulda been a customer but too bad they demanded a photo of my gov id stupid weirdos
04:29:11 <ketas> secret birds
04:29:42 <kerneldove_> ya i don't need to compromise my opsec just so nerds can jerk it to my pic
04:29:58 <kerneldove_> found other hosts with just as good prices just not the big name
04:54:12 <BarnabasDK> an actual enclosure must also give better protection against EMP
06:33:55 <Koston> FYI, hetzner dedicated bottom tier "servers" are actually just trash tier desktop hardware
06:36:24 <Koston> I've had to debug a misbehaving service running on one, and it turned out the hardware was somehow malfunctioning - but in a way that wasn't trivially diagnosed. hetzner turned out to be incredibly unhelpful in responding to the issue after their first level engineers failed to diagnose the fault
06:40:52 <ketas> of course they are
06:40:57 <ketas> ecc ram tho?
06:41:12 <ivy> not if it's Intel, they don't support that on desktop skus
06:41:20 <Koston> it wasn't Intel
06:41:58 <ketas> the great war of ecc
06:42:10 <ketas> btw
06:42:24 <ketas> rescue - usr.bin/id/id.c:149:16: error: use of undeclared identifier 'Aflag'
06:42:27 <ketas> wtf?
06:43:23 <ketas> there was id.c change indeed
06:43:33 <ketas> i'll see what ml says :p
06:50:58 <ketas> oh yeah i see the error
06:52:22 <ketas> that's because desdotdev forgot to test without USE_BSM_AUDIT :p
06:53:14 <ivy> ketas: instead of blaming people for a mistake, it would be more useful to submit a patch
06:54:01 <ketas> i'm looking at code but can't come up with good idea
06:55:18 <Koston> ivy: less drama pls
06:56:35 <ketas> yeah i thinki found right patch but
06:56:51 <ketas> i'll let des look at it?
06:58:25 <ketas> #ifdef USE_BSM_AUDIT\ncombo += Aflag;
06:58:31 <ivy> Koston: it is not "drama" to suggest a way of engaging with bug reports that doesn't hinge on blaming people
06:58:36 <ketas> and remove from general
07:00:19 <ketas> should i file that as bug too :p
07:00:28 <ketas> or it's so little
07:00:33 <ketas> and nevermind current
07:00:54 <ketas> it does break customized build tho
07:01:02 <Koston> just poke des
07:01:10 <ivy> ketas: it is probably redundant to post on the mailing list and also file a bug, but you could do if you wanted
07:01:30 <ketas> well it's not needed indeed
07:03:47 <Koston> if the preference is to avoid calling attention to it, perhaps you don't want to file a bug and announce it on mailing lists. sigh
07:04:36 <ketas> des might fix it before i do that
07:05:09 <ketas> i mean i guess there was extra eyeball
07:05:16 <ivy> there's nothing wrong with "calling attention to it".  i assume you're deliberating misrepresenting what i just said to make some sort of point?
07:05:19 <ketas> and tester
07:05:28 <ivy> it's a bug, report a bug, you don't need to call out a specific person to do that
07:05:39 <Koston> ivy: ok drama queen
07:06:55 <ketas> are there drama kings too
07:07:51 <black2> Koston: how come you know that ivy is a queen?
07:08:44 <ketas> maybe princess
07:09:04 <black2> like is that name so feminine as to suggest a user's gender?
07:11:38 <black2> like ivy could be ivy league, poison ivy and stuff, none of which is particularly gender-specific
07:12:06 <ketas> :p
07:13:13 <black2> was I being delusional?
07:13:44 <ketas> no
07:13:58 <ketas> ever had that issue?
07:14:46 <ketas> oh god it needs another change
07:15:02 <ivy> black2: a simple solution to this is to simply not call people "bro", "dude", etc. if you don't know their gender, then you never have to worry about this
07:15:32 <entrop> drama monarch
07:15:39 <ketas> hah
07:15:53 <ketas> some song had line he was a she
07:16:42 <entrop> lola?
07:18:40 <entrop> Was there a change in bridges between 14.1 and 14.3 where it won't pass traffic unless it's up?
07:18:44 <ketas> if ((cflag || Aflag || Mflag) && argc > 0) usage();
07:18:55 <ketas> how to take aflag out :)
07:19:21 <ivy> if ((clfag || \n #ifdef WHATEVER Aflag || #endif || MFLAG) ...
07:19:41 <ketas> you can do THAT?
07:20:13 <ketas> ifdef is parsed before?
07:20:17 <ketas> maybe
07:20:42 <ivy> they are, but it doesn't matter in this case, becuase you can put a newline anywhere you want in a C expression
07:21:00 <ketas> but it looks like how to make c code unreadable
07:21:04 <ivy> you could write if \n ((cflag \n || \n Aflag \n || \n ... if you wanted (although you obviously wouldn't do that)
07:21:20 <ivy> yes, this isn't a particular nice construct, but for a one-off case it's fine
07:21:46 <ketas> combo = Aflag +
07:22:00 <ketas> yeah ifdef here looks confusing
07:22:05 <ketas> even if working
07:22:18 <ketas> haven't even seen it
07:23:01 <ivy> ketas: the alternative would be to always define Aflag, even if it's always zero when #ifdef WHATEVER isn't enabled
07:23:15 <ketas> yeah
07:23:29 <ketas> maybe it's nice and optimized now
07:23:30 <ketas> ?
07:23:50 <ketas> unless compiler takes it out
07:23:51 <ivy> id(1) does not need to be optimised, that shouldn't be the primary concern when deciding how to do this
07:24:13 <ketas> it's extra bytes in rescue :p
07:24:16 <ketas> but yeah
07:25:09 <ketas> because machines have 640kb memory
07:25:31 <ivy> ketas: it's not extra bytes, because Aflag is an auto (stack) variable
07:25:55 <ketas> meaning?
07:26:00 <ivy> at most it might be an extra instruction to set it to false, but that is not something that realistically anyone cares about
07:26:09 <entrop> ah, it wasn't a change in 14.1-14.3, it was a change in Bastille. I was previously using jib to add epair's which made sure the bridge was up. Current bastille just uses ifconfig to do it, so no handy up being automatically added.
07:26:13 <ivy> (rescue is already ~20MB)
07:26:46 <ketas> 10744180
07:26:49 <ketas> bytes
07:26:51 <ketas> in 16
07:26:55 <ketas> tho
07:27:10 <ketas> i may have excluded stuff?
07:28:28 <ivy> main, amd64: -r-xr-xr-x  149 root wheel 19958328 Oct 30 19:52 /rescue/rescue*
07:28:49 <ketas> 16787576
07:29:03 <ketas> armv7 tho
07:29:19 <ketas> 14174088 in 13 amd64
07:29:20 <ivy> but the exact size doesn't matter, the point is, the size of rescue is irrelevant to how you fix this issue in id
07:29:26 <ivy> no one cares about 4-8 bytes being added to rescue
07:29:32 <ketas> yeah
07:29:51 <kerneldove_> ecc win, amd win, nvme win
07:30:52 <ketas> Koston: funny hetzfault
07:31:01 <ketas> but yeah
07:31:26 <ketas> that's entry level hosting
07:31:44 <ketas> price is matching too
07:33:11 <ketas> funnily it's still six figure sum of hw even on tiny photo crop
07:33:24 <ketas> because hw costs apparently
07:36:23 <ketas> ok i closed that and should go to home or so
07:36:44 <ketas> winter mid street phone c coding
10:02:34 <ketas> ok i'll sleep and if noone has fixed or moaned tomorrow i like try it on my own
10:58:37 <ketas> no
10:58:40 <ketas> i fixed it
10:58:44 <Koston> nice
11:14:45 <ketas> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=290740
11:14:48 <ketas> :p
11:20:36 <ivy> ketas: your PR title says w(1), but the patch is for id(1)?
11:21:06 <ivy> also, your patch appears to include the entire file, which is not desirable for bugzilla patches since it makes it more difficult to see what actually changed
11:21:06 <ketas> i have too many w's in my brain
11:21:24 <ketas> somebody asked for fulls :/
11:21:28 <ketas> when is it needed
11:21:40 <ivy> that is only when you submit a patch to phabricator, not bugzilla
11:22:01 <ivy> and you should be using git arc to submit phabricator patches, so you never need to create a patch like that manually
11:22:20 <ketas> was phab for committers only?
11:22:31 <ivy> no
11:22:33 <tsoome> ye, git arc is your friend there:)
11:23:10 <ivy> but, i don't recommend non-committers use phabricator since there's no workflow to get patches committed
11:24:05 <ketas> i mean i gave a patch and receiver couldn't see where it applies to
11:24:09 <ketas> or how
11:24:11 <ketas> once
11:24:12 <ketas> meh
11:29:04 <ketas> fun in w continues
11:29:13 <ketas> and in gpart
11:29:16 <ketas> xo related
12:41:19 <Koston> guys, guys. have you finished your IPv6 migrations yet? for the No NAT November
12:43:59 <satanist> the problem is not that I don't have working v6, there are to many others don't having v6
12:44:05 <black2> Koston: i've got v6 but still use v4
12:44:52 <satanist> best I can do some vlans with v6 only and dns64 + 464xlat
12:45:53 <black2> v6 is great but if your ISP doesn't open the firewall for individual addresses, its greatest power is being wasted.
13:26:14 <ketas> ivy: so the shorter patch in https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=283427 raised issues like can't see where it applies by glance, i assumed people would just apply it and check where it applied... maybe midpoint context length is required, anyway how do i know how people work
13:28:07 <ketas> bunch of, is this implenting a function, the code already has a function
13:29:00 <ketas> hardcoded 2 runs copy is wtf but i got that (bad) idea from rc.conf :p
14:46:15 <kevans> ketas: i think both your patch and the rc.conf version that it's based on are kind of wrong
14:46:45 <kevans> wrong may be too strong
14:48:38 <ketas> while loop with 2 passes? other detections?
14:49:10 <kevans> loader's semantics are a little more predictable because we would instead pick up any modifications after each file, rather than letting later files in a default set override what you might view as a 'request' to load an extra file from an earlier one
14:49:11 <kevans> s/default/given/
14:49:16 <kevans> (i.e., for loader_conf_files="/boot/defaults/loader.conf /boot/loader.conf /boot/loader.conf.local", each of those has its own chance to set a loader_conf_files and have more picked up)
14:49:49 <kevans> hmm
14:51:15 <kevans> probably a while loop and a "files_sourced" counter that resets each iteration is what i'd end up going with for shell
14:52:05 <ketas> how many passes i wonder
14:52:10 <kevans> (to be clear I wouldn't object to this going in as-is since it does match rc.conf semantics, just pointing out room for possible improvement)
14:52:44 <kevans> well, until files_sourced=0
14:53:08 <ketas> until no more files appear?
14:53:34 <ketas> should it have limit or we could just expect people to not bust it
14:55:26 <kevans> i wouldn't expect to need more than 5-10 in the absolute worst cases, I imagine
14:58:37 <ketas> much better indeed
14:58:46 <ketas> maybe no limit is needed
14:58:49 <ketas> just let it run
14:59:26 <ketas> i wonder if it slows something
14:59:37 <ketas> in periodic.conf, no
14:59:42 <ketas> in rc.conf, well
15:00:35 <ketas> hmm how do i implement it now
15:06:38 <ketas> oh yes
15:27:34 <ke8cqc> I'm running FreeBSD on a laptop that I need to connect to other wifi networks.  In order to do this, I'm trying to use wifimgr, but am getting an error when I try to connect to the mobile hotspot on my phone:  Invalid key for network.  WPA keys must be 8-63 characters long or a 64 character hexidecimal number.  My password is 12 characters.  What is going on here?
15:40:59 <mzar>  ke8cqc: I don't know, but you can still use /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf
15:42:52 <ketas> look what it wrote
16:17:44 <ke8cqc> I got wpa_supplicant working.  I had to add Google's DNS servers to resolv.conf, but it's working now.
16:18:38 <ketas> ehm
16:18:59 <ketas> that's not wpa error
16:20:14 <ke8cqc> I may have used the wrong terminology, but I now know how to switch wifi networks from the CLI.  It's not as difficult as I thought it was going to be.
16:44:39 <ketas> kevans: managed to create first version of that, it allows infinite recursion and stops after it can't find any new files... that's what i actually wanted since beginning
16:52:06 <rtprio> ke8cqc: wpa_cli will let you choose profiles
17:06:48 <kevans> ketas: i think you were on a better track with your previous notion that there should be *some* arbitrary cap on it as a safe-guard
17:08:13 <kevans> if it takes 25 iteration to resolve, your product is probably poorly designed or we have a bug
17:16:03 <Juliaaa> !OPS
17:33:32 <ketas> kevans: ok, runs max 25 times, cuts off before if no new files come out of $rc_conf_files... but should it give error if it ran max allowed times?
18:19:59 <ketas> that's also in now
19:19:32 <qop> Hi! I am setting up a new machine with FBSD. On my linux systemd I have always used luks for backups but FBSD does not support luks. There is a library but it is not even in alpha state. Linux cannot hangle geli... And to complicate things further, FBSD does not manage XFS or F2FS, leaving me with NTFS as the best FS for backups, and using file-encryption rather than block.
19:19:48 <qop> Do you have any suggestion?
19:21:02 <angry_vincent> for what exactly?
19:21:31 <qop> backups.
19:21:41 <qop> data and configuration.
19:23:52 <angry_vincent> freebsd has all mentioned from linux world. backups, encryption and so on.
19:24:54 <angry_vincent> you do not need luks, ntfs, xfs, f2fs
19:25:03 <qop> It has to be encrypted because the backup destinations are external disks. And the FS has to support checksumming and repairs. ZFS would be too mucho for an external drive.
19:25:16 <angry_vincent> you can setup zfs encrypted pool for backups
19:25:35 <angry_vincent> why it would be too much?
19:56:23 <pertho> qop: pkg install restic  :)
19:59:45 <qop> pertho: hey, that looks like a great suggestion. Thanks man!
23:25:48 <darwin> trying to install to newer ThinkPad's SSD/M.2/NVMe but 'gpart bootcode -b /boot/boot nda0s1' says 'invalid argument'
23:26:06 <darwin> trying to install to that partition says same
23:57:01 <darwin> i read FreeBSD disclabels won't be used for FreeBSD 15... what does that mean?  What if I want to install in the old (MBR/non-UEFI) way?
23:57:28 <darwin> or of course upgrade all my installations that only are that way
23:58:27 <ketas> hmm where does it even say that
23:59:47 <ketas> you mean you have to use gpart?