01:00:30 <darwin> since I don't know what /usr/local/bin/* are binaries or shell scripts, should I just name all shell scripts like program.sh (i.e., use .sh extension)?
01:01:58 <ivy> do you have a need to tell if something is a binary or a shell script from its filename?
01:02:59 <darwin> no but sounds easier
01:03:32 <ivy> well, they're your files, so it's up to you, just make sure not to rename anything installed from ports/packages
01:05:40 <darwin> yes
01:07:47 <dsmith> darwin, The size (as with "ls -l") should give a clue (most scripts are much smaller than binaries).  And "file" will confirm.
01:08:31 <darwin> a Slackware user showed me an article why he thinks it's bad to ever give scripts or any other command extensions: http://www.talisman.org/~erlkonig/documents/commandname-extensions-considered-harmful
01:08:50 <darwin> i'm not sure it convinced me because most I use can be said to be more than just commands, like larger pieces of software
01:09:07 <dsmith> Normally, you don't really care.  Unless you want to edit one.
01:09:22 <dsmith> Or are curious what it is doing..
01:50:18 <skered> darwin: file might help
01:50:36 <skered> ex: file /usr/local/bin/poudriere
09:08:57 <polarian> ivy: hmmm maybe I should read the source code first :P
09:09:20 <polarian> I have a weird obversion to reading source code for some reason, when its my own then sure, but when I see 100,000 lines of code I get scared :P
09:12:41 <polarian> I think I asked this and I think I got told no, but is there an IRC channel where the docs folks hang out, or is it just on shitcor... I mean Discord :D
09:17:22 <nimaje> the wiki says #bsddocs on efnet, but no idea if that is still up-to-date
09:41:39 <divlamir> polarian: there's the freebsd-doc mailing list, and of course bugzilla. You browse doc issues specifically. And if you want to contribute documentation, first stop should be the FDP: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/fdp-primer/
09:42:03 <divlamir> s/You/You can/
09:55:38 <polarian> divlamir: just had a quick question I wanted answered
09:55:42 <polarian> nimaje: will check it out thx
09:57:07 <divlamir> You might ask it here, or on #freebsd-dev. According to netsplid.de #bsddocs is no more
09:58:03 <divlamir> For better guidance, use the mailing lists
10:06:58 <divlamir> polarian: here's an example exchange with someone in a similar situation: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-doc/2025-September/007529.html
10:11:44 <polarian> its fine I asked bcr at the devsummit now
10:11:55 <polarian> I got my answer
17:03:43 <Retrofan> Hi
17:04:32 <Retrofan> I have some problems with my znc for 3days now :p
17:05:04 <flatdog> that's kind of sucky
17:05:33 <Retrofan> yeah
17:06:56 <Retrofan> I am using Ircnow's Oddprotocol
17:07:00 <flatdog> yet here you are :)
17:07:37 <Retrofan> flatdog: are a freebsd desktop user?
17:07:45 <Retrofan> *you
17:07:51 <flatdog> yes, I am
17:08:00 <Retrofan> x11?
17:08:06 <flatdog> yep
17:08:24 <Retrofan> What is your setup
17:09:02 <Retrofan> wich wm?
17:11:11 <flatdog> a SFF HP, with NVidia 710, Intel network, Samsung nvme+ some old WD Blue HDD. XFCE4 for the "sugar", JWM for being slim.
17:11:33 <Retrofan> O_o
17:11:54 <Retrofan> I am also using SFF HP :D
17:12:06 <flatdog> what's wrong? it does the job for me
17:12:19 <Retrofan> no it's very nice
17:12:37 <Retrofan> just first person I talk to him have one..
17:13:44 <flatdog> I got like a bunch for the price of one
17:14:10 <flatdog> *exagerration, got 3
17:14:13 <Retrofan> Yeah, from a company?
17:14:30 <Retrofan> They use them in offices
17:15:34 <flatdog> there is this company in my city, they refurbish and sell old-ish systems
17:16:00 <flatdog> dirt-cheap, yet stable
17:16:11 <Retrofan> I got only one for realy t
17:16:28 <Retrofan> *really cheap price
17:17:10 <Retrofan> $50
17:18:03 <flatdog> hmmm... are you active on the official forum? *the retro part rings a bell
17:18:19 <Retrofan> Forum?
17:18:22 <Retrofan> no
17:18:33 <flatdog> ok, sorry
17:18:56 <Retrofan> But i have an account
17:20:28 <Retrofan>  flatdog: SFF HP 6005?
17:20:31 <flatdog> following the forum is good. There is some clutter, but there is a lot more value, direct feedback, devs and competent people reacting
17:21:44 <flatdog> close :)(
17:22:08 <Retrofan> Yeah I get a fix for nearly everything there
17:22:16 <Retrofan> 6000s?
17:22:21 <flatdog> s/:)(/:) *fatfingered
17:23:17 <flatdog> Retrofan: HP ProDesk 600 G3 SFF
17:23:44 <Retrofan> very modern..
17:24:01 <flatdog> modern, my *** :D
17:24:27 <flatdog> it just works, what else to expect?
17:24:31 <Retrofan> mine is 6005
17:24:56 <flatdog> when it dies, may God rest it in peace :)
17:27:52 <flatdog> usually I go with Dell, but this was too much of a bargain to miss, so HP it is
17:27:57 <mzar> 6005 is nice, except the fact FreeBSD cannot be booted on this PC
17:28:29 <flatdog> Sorry? how come" cannot be booted"?
17:28:45 <mzar> Retrofan: how are you booting FreeBSD on your HP 6005?
17:28:55 <Retrofan> wait..
17:29:50 <flatdog> TP, perhaps?
17:29:51 <Retrofan> My bad it's HP CompaqPro 6305
17:30:10 <Retrofan> Forgot about "3"
17:30:14 <mzar> 6005 does exist
17:30:20 <Retrofan> yeah I know
17:30:45 <Retrofan> I remeber I have a sff from 20
17:30:49 <Retrofan> *2004
17:30:55 <Retrofan> somewhere
17:31:05 <mzar> there is a nice story about 6005 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=151122
17:31:34 <mzar> TL;DR - use GRUB2 to load and boot FreeBSD kernel
17:31:54 <Retrofan> Then loader not working there..
17:32:43 <Retrofan> flatdog: Be careful with HDDs that came with those used SFF ones, they die fast
17:33:16 <Retrofan> I had one WD green 500gb ntfs format, and I have strange problems with it..
17:33:20 <flatdog> new nvme, no second-hand storage
17:33:28 <Retrofan> ah nice
17:33:34 <flatdog> thank you for the heads-up
17:33:46 <Retrofan> No problem :D
17:34:42 <Retrofan> I am a professinal in placeing as much as I can HDDs in my small case XD
17:35:14 <flatdog> you like the noise? :)
17:35:32 <Retrofan> Not really
17:35:36 <flatdog> *and the heat
17:36:01 <Retrofan> no heat I made a cooling system for them
17:36:07 <Retrofan> 3 HDD
17:36:14 <Retrofan> +CD-rom
17:36:33 <Retrofan> *one is Disconnected
17:37:33 <Retrofan> All of them are 500GB, I think about buying a bigger ones..
17:38:23 <flatdog> how on Earth have you managed to shrink in 3 HHDs and a CD-ROM into that tight case?
17:38:42 <Retrofan> easy heh
17:39:06 <flatdog> now you've got my attention
17:39:10 <Retrofan> You can add a second HDD under the CD-rom
17:39:49 <Retrofan> and another one is pretty hard but I made it
17:41:09 <Retrofan> I got it between the CD-Rom and the second HDD heh
17:41:33 <Retrofan> Bec those two are small Segatte
17:42:02 <flatdog> 2'5 my guess
17:42:19 <Retrofan> and a fan beside them
17:42:51 <Retrofan> No 3.5
17:42:55 <flatdog> I can only hope the power supply will keep up
17:43:07 <Retrofan> but they are thin
17:43:14 <Retrofan> really thin
17:43:45 <Retrofan> there still a big space after two of them Installed
17:44:01 <flatdog> hey, "it's temporary, unless it works" :)
17:44:30 <Retrofan> flatdog: my power supply can handle easilt 3 HDDs
17:44:38 <Retrofan> *easily
17:44:47 <flatdog> nice
17:44:48 <Retrofan> as the manual
17:45:13 <Retrofan> and it working good no heat :D
17:46:17 <flatdog> my oldest machine (in function as we speak/type) is an old Supermicro workstation
17:46:37 <flatdog> Pyramid IV tower
17:46:57 <flatdog> 2004 or something
17:47:40 <flatdog> doing firewall/routing
17:47:44 <Retrofan> mine is Macintosh classic 1990
17:47:55 <flatdog> those are immortal beasts
17:48:51 <flatdog> *removed the IPMI
17:58:20 <flatdog> not a FreeBSD purist myself, I use Void Linux and Slackware as well
17:58:36 <flatdog> Void being the daily driver
17:58:49 <Retrofan> I am only using Freebsd
17:59:28 <flatdog> whatever floats the boat :)
17:59:35 <Retrofan> yeah
17:59:35 <rtprio> i couldn't be bothered to figure out nvidia or steam on freebsd
17:59:49 <Retrofan> steam?
18:00:04 <flatdog> as I said, whatever floats the boat
18:00:10 <Retrofan> heh never used such a thing..
18:00:28 <Retrofan> My most modern game on my pc is Xevil
18:00:51 <Retrofan> https://www.xevil.com/
18:00:58 <flatdog> too old for gaming
18:01:08 <Retrofan> I reported it to freebsd
18:01:09 <flatdog> *I am
18:02:04 <Retrofan> "The creation and dispersal of XEvil is but a single step in our complicated and devious plot to achieve world domination. With each download, we take control of yet another weak-willed soul. Soon our army of hopelessly obedient slaves will be complete, and we will rule the planet!! WA HA HA HA HA HA! HO HO HA HAH HA HA HA!! HEH HEH HA AHA HA HA
18:02:05 <Retrofan> HA!" funny XD
18:03:34 <Retrofan> and some  webgames (Java, flash and shockwave)
18:03:53 <Retrofan> heh Xpat2
18:03:54 <flatdog> Flash, he said :)
18:04:04 <Retrofan> Nuke
18:04:09 <Retrofan> 1995
18:05:09 <Retrofan> flatdog:  I am an old Macromedia Director user
18:05:28 <flatdog> not my world, but hey, we're not supposed to be the same
18:05:54 <flatdog> Macromedia was the apex of web
18:06:29 <flatdog> Ultradev, Dreamweaver, Fireworks... good ol' days
18:06:45 <flatdog> then Adobe came in
18:06:46 <Retrofan> The most company I hate after Microsoft is Adobe
18:06:57 <Retrofan> Adobe is evil
18:07:02 <flatdog> true
18:07:42 <Retrofan> we need a page like that for adobe
18:07:43 <Retrofan> http://toastytech.com/evil/index.html
18:07:57 <TommyC> Sorry, you're not allowed to hate Adobe.
18:08:06 <Retrofan> heh
18:08:06 <TommyC> You haven't paid your Hate Adobe License fee for this month.
18:08:21 <flatdog> oops!
18:08:31 <Retrofan> Adobe called Director and flash
18:08:32 <flatdog> :)
18:08:38 <Retrofan> *killed
18:09:23 <flatdog> flash itself was a time bomb, nothing to lose there
18:09:26 <Retrofan> Do you know they even didn't devolp AS3 for flash
18:10:26 <Retrofan> flatdog: they killed it with not butting interst in making it secure
18:10:35 <Retrofan> *interest
18:10:36 <flatdog> well, I haven't touched a windows machine for years, I only follow the news that matter for me
18:11:21 <Retrofan> They just get the most advantage (money) from it with the least devolpment
18:11:25 <Retrofan> *got
18:12:03 <Retrofan> And for director fired the OG Devs
18:12:03 <flatdog> I remember ColdFusion, and their failure
18:12:12 <Retrofan> Myspace heh
18:12:29 <Retrofan> I was also a ColdFusion user
18:12:49 <Retrofan> then killed it
18:13:27 <flatdog> and I remember an american agency running all of their web stack on ColdFusion. Bad ideas come fast, last forever.
18:15:25 <flatdog> wasn't Myspace a PERL stack? I might be wrong, just asking
18:16:28 <divlamir> A lot of stuff was Perl in the early days :)
18:17:34 <flatdog> Perl is the first Aid Kit, when the simple shell is not enough (arguably)
18:17:59 <Retrofan> flatdog: Pure CF
18:18:07 <Retrofan> myspace
18:18:12 <flatdog> arrays, arrays everywhere :)
18:18:53 <flatdog> Retrofan: ok, for some reason I thought it was Perl, my apologies
18:19:30 <Retrofan> flatdog: Just imgine the society if Adobe didn't buy Macromedia
18:19:51 <Retrofan> Macromedia ideas in 2000s was out of control
18:20:56 <Retrofan> Look like you never touched Director.. but if you used it.. you surely will fell in love with it..
18:21:39 <Retrofan> easy Drag and drop envirement, but can do crazy things
18:22:47 <Retrofan> divlamir: the only Lang I had fully understand it was Perl
18:22:56 <flatdog> Macromedia was ahead of time, on many layers
18:23:18 <Retrofan> but I hated it after my attempt of building Mozilla on mac os 9
18:23:59 <Retrofan> old Moz was heavily rely on it, took me 9 monthes to semi-build it
18:24:09 <flatdog> :)
18:24:33 <flatdog> LibreWolf, all automated
18:24:59 <Retrofan> But I got back to moz with seamonkey (Brasmonkey) now
18:25:22 <Retrofan> *Brassmonkey
18:25:23 <flatdog> to each, their own
18:25:43 <Retrofan> yeah
18:25:59 <Retrofan> but it's still nearly OG Mozilla
18:26:17 <Retrofan> *I mean here the software not foundation
18:26:26 <flatdog> got it
18:27:51 <Retrofan> the last CVE of flash before 2021 was a RCE XD
18:28:42 <flatdog> I'm more into the tech side, manufacturing and such
18:28:51 <flatdog> You might be not
18:29:04 <Retrofan> yeah, I am more artist
18:29:08 <flatdog> For me, LibreCAD is essential
18:29:21 <flatdog> means nothing to you
18:29:44 <flatdog> to each, their own
18:29:49 <Retrofan> For your work?
18:29:55 <flatdog> yes
18:30:01 <flatdog> living
18:30:36 <flatdog> as in day to day
18:31:32 <Retrofan> Mine is  just Openoffice
18:31:38 <flatdog> *probably missing some dashes
18:31:39 <hodapp> hmmm I should learn LibreCAD sometime
18:31:57 <hodapp> grew up on AutoCAD
18:32:12 * Retrofan Really want to get back to my farm
18:32:41 <Retrofan> I hate cities
18:32:59 <flatdog> hodapp: it's just a tool, it can do whatever you want. The user is the limiting factor.
18:33:43 <hodapp> well yeah, this is why I didn't say "LibreCAD should morph itself into a form that I already understand without having to learn"
18:34:27 <flatdog> it takes a while to learn, but the learning curve isn't that steep, if you ask me.
18:35:05 <flatdog> previous CAD experience could help
18:35:32 <flatdog> I mostly use the CAM modules
18:35:58 <hodapp> yes, did AutoCAD professionally for a bit in a past life
18:38:05 <flatdog> you will find yourslf at home-ish, there are subtleties
18:38:28 <flatdog> nothing you couldn't handle
18:40:06 <Retrofan> Look at the lack of interest in development that adobe have, Shockwave from v10 to last version have the same CVE (Memory Corruption) which devolped with time to became a RCE.. then adobe killed it in 2019
18:41:27 <Retrofan> Macromedia had a plan of mixing Director, flash and shockwave 3d to became a one big soft
18:41:46 <flatdog> Adobe is the other Oracle (fuck them both bastards)
18:42:09 <flatdog> whatever they touch, dies
18:42:41 <flatdog> Solaris, anyone?
18:44:11 <Retrofan> in 2004, then the acquired of abode came
18:44:22 <Retrofan> flatdog: heh, yeah
18:44:56 <Retrofan> I remember reading an article about that huge project somewhere
18:45:25 <hodapp> I don't normally cheer for Apple and Google, but the day that Steve Jobs curb-stomped Flash on iPhone and then Google followed suit by disabling it by default in Chrome was a happy day
18:46:05 <Retrofan> Bad day :(
18:46:20 <flatdog> indeed, better safe than sorry (a tad late, but still...)
18:46:32 <hodapp> those were the nails in Flash's coffin after Adobe spent years and years refusing to support it beyond the absolute bare minimum
18:46:38 <mzar> all the progress is made by good and bad days
18:47:10 <flatdog> :)
18:47:25 <hodapp> their Linux support was just garbage; Flash struggled to scale a 320x240 video to full-screen and Adobe lied about it having any kind of GPU support
18:47:50 <Retrofan>  I am talking about.. potental of Flash (If abobe didn't abused it)
18:47:55 <LxGHTNxNG> i am being made to wonder about ruffle
18:48:12 <Retrofan> I was in their server in 2020
18:48:27 <flatdog> hmmm...
18:48:53 <Retrofan> LxGHTNxNG: Tomfulp sent me an invite
18:49:17 <Retrofan> but I hate Discord so I left
18:49:28 <Retrofan> flatdog: what?
18:49:49 <flatdog> Adobe's server?
18:49:51 <hodapp> oh, Flash could have been a lot else
18:50:14 <Retrofan> flatdog: ruffle discord server
18:50:29 <flatdog> Got that now
18:50:33 <Retrofan> hodapp: yeah
18:50:42 <LxGHTNxNG> flash is a silly little guy anyway
18:51:08 <flatdog> javascript with pixels
18:51:17 <Retrofan> remember shumway
18:51:30 <Retrofan> Mozilla failed project
18:51:58 <Retrofan> I build it back in the day, it 80% supported AS3
18:52:39 <flatdog> do not hurt Mozilla, I run a derivative browser :)
18:52:51 <Retrofan> Only AS3 and AVM2
18:53:08 <Retrofan> me too
18:53:25 <Retrofan> But i hate mozilla foundation
18:53:39 <flatdog> love the product
18:53:41 <Retrofan> Brassmonkey is 100% free of mozilla
18:53:49 <Retrofan> yeah product is nice
18:54:22 <flatdog> LibreWolf, not the best but suits me well
18:54:26 <ivy> does anyone know off hand if we have a DRM driver for AMD Strix Halo?
18:54:53 <flatdog> no idea @ivy
18:55:25 <Retrofan> until they wanted to make AI integrated with firefox
18:55:35 <Retrofan> AI is everywhere now :(
18:55:57 <flatdog> try the forums, perhaps? Very active and ready to help
18:56:35 <flatdog> https://forums.freebsd.org/
18:57:10 <flatdog> or maybe we can drag in here a developer with more knowledge
18:57:36 <ivy> it's not important enough for a forum post really, i'm just window shopping for new hardware
18:59:41 <flatdog> well, you know better
19:01:49 <Retrofan> ivy: I can only find https://wiki.freebsd.org/Graphics/AMD-GPU-Matrix
19:20:22 <Retrofan> Guys remember the old beuatifal logo of google
19:20:28 <Retrofan> 2000s era
19:21:05 * Retrofan don't know why feeling so nostigaic today..
19:21:29 <Retrofan> *beuatifal
19:32:43 <flatdog> the season, I guess
19:33:10 <Retrofan> season؟
19:33:47 <Retrofan> I am more nostilgic in spring
19:33:51 <flatdog> https://youtu.be/o9reuCbOMJU
19:35:06 <Retrofan> ah, but surly autumn is not like this in my country
19:36:11 <Retrofan> no forests here and just few plains
19:36:45 <flatdog> hmm... windy 24/7?
19:36:48 <Retrofan> I really like plains myself
19:37:11 <Retrofan> flatdog: not really
19:37:19 <Retrofan> but wind here is strong
19:39:15 <flatdog> pretty much like Germany, not all flat, but with capricious winds and wheater
19:40:38 <Retrofan> Germany? man.. my country (egypt) is 70% desert..
19:41:08 <Retrofan> I said few plains
19:41:55 <flatdog> desert, and full of history, plenty to see and learn there. A point on my list.
19:42:20 <Retrofan> I am not really a desert fan
19:42:45 <TommyC> I'm a huge dessert fan, though.
19:42:45 <flatdog> because you live there.
19:42:48 <Retrofan> nor forests, I just like plains
19:42:59 <Retrofan> flatdog: yeah
19:44:56 <Retrofan> TommyC: look like you are fan of +50 celsius weather
19:44:56 <hodapp> 70% desert? pfffft. rookie numbers
19:45:02 <hodapp> I'm in the US where it's 80% dessert.
19:45:17 <Retrofan> us?
19:45:28 <hodapp> everywhere you look, it's overly sweet foods.
19:45:36 <flatdog> Texas? Or Arizona? Nevada, perhaps?
19:45:41 <Retrofan> Isn't it have bunch of forests
19:45:53 <hodapp> it was a joke about our food culture sucking
19:46:12 <hodapp> Retrofan: depends heavily where you are in the country.
19:46:44 <Retrofan> hodapp: yeah, that is the only advantage of forests
19:46:54 <hodapp> ehh?
19:46:59 <flatdog> Ggo north, plenty of forests in the US
19:47:11 <flatdog> s/Ggo/go
19:48:02 <TommyC> It's so cold where flatdog is even his typing is stuttering.
19:48:11 <hodapp> shame. have some dessert.
19:48:20 <TommyC> 1 Creme Brulee please.
19:48:38 <hodapp> mmmmm I need to make creme brulee again.
19:48:40 <hodapp> also chocolate mousse.
19:49:03 <hodapp> I barely like sweet things, but make exceptions for those two
19:49:07 <flatdog> Tommy'O 18 degrees Celsius, 22:09
19:49:20 <flatdog> how cold can that be? :)
19:51:09 <flatdog> 64.4 °F
19:52:13 <flatdog> 18 multiplied by 9/5, add 32, freakin' fahrenheit
19:53:15 * Retrofan never eat any sugar for 10 years
19:54:03 <flatdog> masochistic?
19:54:56 <Retrofan> flatdog: Just health problems
19:55:20 <flatdog> oh, sorry to hear that
19:55:58 <flatdog> it was a stupid question
19:56:37 <Retrofan> I was so scared of getting diabetics (my blood sugar was high), so I stopped eating it
19:59:26 <Retrofan> I was really lucky of not being sugar lover
20:00:50 <Retrofan> What is going wrong with Invidious? videos is no more working well
20:00:59 <flatdog> hey, get well and enjoy life, we only got one shot at it
20:01:08 <Retrofan> yeah
20:03:09 <flatdog> one day I will climb one of those pyramids
20:04:12 <flatdog> only to realize how small I am, compared to all that history behind them
20:04:25 <hodapp> guess I'm lucky not really craving sugar much, nor things like alcohol
20:04:54 <Retrofan> flatdog: Look like you are really fan of pyramids ;)
20:05:11 <flatdog> history, more likely :)
20:05:27 <flatdog> things that last, in general
20:05:35 <Retrofan> me too
20:09:58 <flatdog> thank you for the conversation everyone. Time for me to hit the sack, nasty friday tomorrow.
20:10:26 <Retrofan> me too bye!