04:10:49 <rwp> Do people on FreeBSD usually use "multiwatch" to manage fcgiwrap processes?  That's rather the standard in my world on the other side with linux systems.
04:11:55 <rwp> I can install multiwatch from pkg ports okay no problem.  But...  There is no rc script for multiwatch.  There is an rc script for spawn-fcgi which is usually used with it.  And also an rc script for fcgiwrap itself.
04:13:17 <rwp> For those that do this is the usual thing to do to configure the spawn-fcgi rc scripts for multiwatch?  Seems plausible.  Thought I would see what other people do about fcgiwrap processes in a high rate production environment.
04:14:14 <TommyC> What did the port maintainer(s) say about it?
04:19:45 <rwp> Where would they say this?  "pkg info -D multiwatch" has nothing said there.
04:28:31 <TommyC> rwp: Could send them an e-mail asking about the missing startup script.
04:32:10 <kevans> based on the spawn-fcgi rc script and the multiwatch repo's README.md, it seems like the intention is probably to use the multiwatch binary as spawn_fcgi_app and spawn_fcgi_app_args as appropriate
04:32:54 <kevans> the pkg descriptin for multiwatch does note that it's intended to be used with spawn-fcgi specifically
04:32:56 <rwp> I am reading through that and I think it is something like that too.
04:33:57 <rwp> Though I said spawn-fcgi on linux previously I should have said that on linux it is the fcgiwrap rc script which is usually configured for multiwatch.  And I think actually that either the FreeBSD fcgiwrap or the spawn-fcgi rc script could be configured for this.
04:34:55 <kevans> right, so the expected use is probably teh same, it's just not really explicitly documented as such
04:35:10 <rwp> I know the result I want.  Just trying to figure out what needs to be done to achieve that result.  And strangely searching the web I don't see any blogs or articles from anyone talking about how this is done for them.  That's unusual.  Thought I would discuss here.
04:35:56 <rwp> After I get it going I will endeavor to post a wiki article on how I set it up for this.  (shrug)
05:06:20 <mewt> 2243/20
05:06:25 <mewt> bah sorry
09:11:40 <Retrofan> Hi
09:11:54 <Retrofan> I am back agian
09:15:25 <Retrofan> Some problem in my client.. fixed it
10:04:02 <darwin> if I switched one PC from AMD to Nvidia, what do I replace kld_list="amdgpu" with?
10:07:10 <Retrofan> darwin: Install nvidia drivers first
10:12:31 <darwin> ok
10:13:00 <darwin> i've seen a lot of those.  It has GeForce RTX 4090 soon 5090
10:36:33 <darwin> if I use Bhyve to run Slackware or something, which has drivers for my multi-function hub / media dashboard with alcor micro corp chips, could I then access memory cards, etc., in that in X in FreeBSD?
11:16:29 <Retrofan> darwin: I only want you to not face my problem :(
11:17:16 <Retrofan> are you from dev of Slackware
11:29:37 <darwin> not officially
11:30:11 <Retrofan> do you have knowledge in freebsd
11:30:18 <Retrofan> I have a big problem :(
11:34:37 <Alver> darwin: you're asking to first passthrough an unknown device to a VM, have that VM recognize it and make it usable, and then having your *host* access that device *via* the VM?
11:34:48 <Alver> That sounds... convoluted, if possible at all
11:36:37 <Retrofan> Alver: could you help me please..
11:37:10 <darwin> if I can pass through all USB, then maybe
11:37:32 <ridcully> Retrofan: don't ask to ask, just ask
11:38:31 <Retrofan> I already asked yesterday
11:38:52 <Retrofan> it's a problem happend when upgrading freebsd
11:38:59 <Retrofan> it removed the amdgpu
11:39:19 <Retrofan> but it's still listed in rc.conf
11:39:28 <Retrofan> and blacklisted in loader.conf
11:39:42 <Retrofan> To fix that old bug
11:40:07 <Alver> darwin: then you still won't be able to get to it from the host, I fear.
11:40:08 <Retrofan> but now it crashes the screen; bec it can't find the driver
11:40:43 <Retrofan> can write blindly, renamed rc.conf to rc.conf.old, but no luck
11:41:29 <darwin> then reinstall it or the new version
11:41:36 <Retrofan> tried unload modules from "OK prombat" and booting with "boot /boot/kernel/kernel" + -s for single user mode, but still no luck
11:41:37 <darwin> pkg search amdgpu
11:42:02 <Retrofan> No pkgs will work anyway
11:42:18 <Retrofan> bec. the pkg upgrade install 13.5 pkgs
11:42:29 <Retrofan> but the system is still on 13.2 base
11:42:31 <darwin> i don't think you need the Linux kernel for amdgpu... I just had kld_load="amdgpu"; for Nvidia it starts kld_load="linux nvidia..."
11:42:33 <divlamir> Can you ssh into the box if the screen is not working ?
11:42:44 <Retrofan> no ssh will work
11:42:49 <darwin> then pkg update; pkg upgrade
11:42:53 <Retrofan> no pkgs will ever work
11:42:55 <darwin> fix pkg first
11:43:15 <darwin> actually that won't work
11:43:18 <darwin> sounds like messed up
11:43:33 <darwin> why would you be installing from 13.5 without upgrading to that
11:43:39 <Retrofan> darwin: there no problem in pkgs, freebsd-update install will work
11:43:43 <Retrofan> that normal
11:44:05 <Retrofan> upgrade command installs the laetest versions of pkgs
11:44:10 <Retrofan> then you reboot
11:44:19 <Retrofan> and run freebsd-upadte install
11:44:22 <Retrofan> 3 times
11:44:26 <Retrofan> and it will work
11:44:31 <Retrofan> but I can't see
11:44:52 <Retrofan> the screen, then how do I know if there is problem happend?
11:45:02 <Retrofan> I need to forvstop
11:45:11 <darwin> yeah, SSH in and I suggest get OS/pkg versions matching before you start on graphics card
11:45:22 <Retrofan> *force stop the system from loading those modules
11:45:45 <Retrofan> darwin: no pkgs will work
11:45:54 <Retrofan> only working in rescue
11:46:01 <Retrofan> and freebsd-update install
11:46:16 <Retrofan> My problem is not fixing the module
11:46:32 <Retrofan> the command line can be reached without amdgpu
11:46:55 <Retrofan> but the system is loading non-exits module, which crash it..
11:47:34 <darwin> then don't load it until after fixing
11:48:02 <Retrofan> but it still been loaded, even after unload
11:48:13 <divlamir> I've trouble understanding what is going on.. Can you reach a command line on the system or not?
11:48:15 <Retrofan> I need to know what is in loader.conf
11:48:35 <Retrofan> Hi divlamir
11:48:48 <Retrofan> can reach but in crashed screen
11:48:54 <Retrofan> write blindly
11:49:31 <divlamir> If it's a gpu driver issue, you should be still able to SSH in the box
11:49:34 <Retrofan> I succesfuly reached anthor pc but the innternet connection here is lower than 500kb/s
11:50:24 <Retrofan> divlamir: do you remember my problem
11:50:36 <Retrofan> all pkgs is in 13.5 version
11:50:48 <Retrofan> so no ssh will work with old libc and base
11:51:03 <Retrofan> need to freebsd-update install
11:51:05 <divlamir> ssh is part of base
11:51:15 <Retrofan> how?
11:51:32 <Retrofan> Is there is bultin one!
11:51:39 <Retrofan> builtin
11:51:50 <divlamir> well, yeah, it's not a package
11:52:00 <Retrofan> ah, my bad
11:52:36 <Retrofan> I remember that I can read loader.conf in the OK prombat
11:52:55 <Retrofan> *promat
11:53:28 <flatdog> *p
11:53:42 <divlamir> you can just do 'unload' at the prompt
11:53:51 <divlamir> or choose load defaults from the menu
11:53:54 <Retrofan> done that before
11:54:10 <Retrofan> I think there someting other in that file
11:54:18 <divlamir> you can try booting kernel.old
11:54:31 <Retrofan> flatdog: bat english XD
11:54:34 <divlamir> backups ?
11:54:44 <Retrofan> backups of loader
11:54:47 <Retrofan> ?
11:56:22 <divlamir> Or, get mfsBSD and boot from a stick: https://mfsbsd.vx.sk/
11:58:28 <scottpedia> divlamir: what does mfs stand for?
12:01:01 <Tenkawa> memory filesystem right?
12:04:21 <Retrofan> guys
12:04:31 <Retrofan> loader.conf not found
12:04:47 <Retrofan> look like it was deleted all that time
12:05:16 <Retrofan> should I move backup loader.conf to /etc ?
12:06:59 * Alver still doesn't get why you don't just copy etc/ somewhere, put a fresh install of 14.3 over the OS, and attach /home
12:09:10 <Retrofan> "/etc" is on same partition of "/home"
12:09:51 <Alver> Oof. Bad planning
12:10:20 <scottpedia> Tenkawa: okay
12:10:34 <scottpedia> but that's the difference between that and liveOS?
12:11:18 <Alver> Has anyone got experience with (creating and) destroying tun devices programatically from C?
12:12:05 <scottpedia> Alver: I had very slight such experiences
12:12:45 <scottpedia> and I think in the official library source code pack there are a few usage examples
12:12:55 <Alver> scottpedia: Creating a tun succeeds. But if I want to get rid of the device, that seems to be more tricky due to unknown open file descriptors and no apparent way to get rid of them. If I don't, SIOCIFDESTROY will hang in an uninterruptable state in kernel.
12:13:28 <scottpedia> have far have you got?
12:13:31 <Alver> If I only call close() on the fd, the device will be "disconnected" and unconfigured but nevertheless still present and visible in ifconfig.
12:14:13 <Alver> scottpedia: well, I already managed to have to reboot three times so far because of this ioctl hang. I would prefer to avoid more of those. :°)
12:14:44 <Alver> (it's a jail server, and it's everytime a bunch of services that have to come back up)
12:14:56 <scottpedia> have you tried using ifconfig to destroy interfaces?
12:16:02 <Alver> From C? No, I haven't. If there are open file descriptors - which is the prime suspect afaik - then ifconfig would also hang since it calls the same ioctls effectively
12:17:27 <Alver> If my C code to remove the tun hangs, and I try to do remove that same tun via ifconfig in a terminal, then ifconfig also hangs
12:18:09 <Alver> I suppose I could try to query procstat for all open fds, and loop over them to see who else has an open one on my tun, but that sounds super cumbersome
12:26:10 <Retrofan> haha
12:26:13 <Retrofan> Fixed!
12:26:45 <Retrofan> I was just disabled hw.syscons in loader.conf
12:27:09 <Retrofan> so after hw.syscons.disable=0 it worked!
12:27:19 <Retrofan> now I am on single user mode!
12:53:32 <vkarlsen> Anyone else seeing this?  ld-elf.so.1: /usr/local/lib/libidn.so.12: version LIBIDN_1.0 required by /usr/local/bin/lynx not defined  (lynx installed via official pkg. Rebuild from ports fixed it. 14.3-R.
12:54:17 <vkarlsen> Unterminated parenthesis for attention
13:16:39 <Retrofan> Now..
13:16:56 <Retrofan> there is some problems with internet
13:17:14 <Retrofan> look like freebsd-update fetch messed it up
14:40:13 <Retrofan> my internet is 56k now XD
14:40:33 <Retrofan> I am running freebsd-update install
14:40:33 <autumnblue> literally, or?
14:40:59 <Retrofan> but there is somethin wrong here
14:41:15 <Retrofan> it's say is that I am using ZFS now
14:41:51 <Retrofan> but I never used it before
14:43:18 <Retrofan> Does the freebsd-update installs it automatically
14:55:15 <dch> Retrofan: what does `zfs list` show? your filesystem isn't automagically converted, whatever you started with, will still be the same after upgrade
14:55:34 <dch> but freebsd-update *might* load the kernel module to determine if you're using zfs or not.
14:56:06 <dch> as it will create a boot environment (a snapshot) if you have zfs, to make rollback easy
14:56:22 <Retrofan> yeah I understood
14:56:50 <Retrofan> upgrade successed
14:56:57 <dch> \o/ awesome
14:56:59 <Retrofan> uname -r
14:57:05 <Retrofan> prints freebsd 13.5
14:57:11 <Retrofan> but..
14:57:55 <Retrofan> alot of problems here :(
14:58:06 <Retrofan> loader needs to be updates
14:58:44 <Retrofan> and packges need to reinstalled
14:58:51 <Retrofan> *updated
14:59:05 <Retrofan> and NO internet
14:59:10 <dch> thats normal. updating base system is part 1, updating packages is part 2 after reboot
14:59:25 <dch> but not having internet is very awkward
14:59:33 <Retrofan> maybe upgrade messed up hosts
15:00:28 <Retrofan> and it says now my backup partition is not clean
15:00:37 <Retrofan> run fsck
15:01:04 <dch> did you do `shutdown -r now` or use something else? otherwise it should be clean
15:01:14 <Retrofan> ah
15:01:27 <Retrofan> yesterday I unpluged the power cable
15:01:33 <Retrofan> three times
15:01:43 <dch> this is why we use zfs where we can ;-)
15:01:50 <Retrofan> why?
15:02:04 <Retrofan> is it damged
15:02:05 <Retrofan> ?
15:02:18 <Retrofan> if fixed the main freebsd ufs
15:02:21 <Retrofan> and others
15:02:30 <Retrofan> but that one is already embty
15:02:34 <Retrofan> so no problem
15:02:38 <Retrofan> formating it
15:03:02 <Retrofan> dch: is zfs safe me from that?
15:03:08 <dch> yes
15:03:18 <dch> it has a number of useful features:
15:03:21 <dch> - copy-on-write. so even if you lose power, there is no fsck needed, so its always consistent
15:03:23 <dch> - inbuilt checksums, so you can catch errors and recover from them, instead of finding out only when the data appears corrupted later
15:03:36 <Retrofan> so is it damged?
15:03:38 <dch> - lots of conveniences like boot environments, snapshots, easy replication
15:03:47 <Retrofan> but it's eats ram :(
15:03:52 <Retrofan> *it
15:03:55 <dch> for your ufs partition, you need to run fsck, yes
15:04:14 <dch> I run zfs on 0.5GB systems, it can be tuned not to do this
15:04:25 <Retrofan> fsck didn't fix anything on that embty partition
15:04:28 <dch> but it depends on use case and needs, ufs is very reliable
15:04:45 <Retrofan> dch: O_o
15:04:51 <Retrofan> my pc is 8gb
15:05:33 <Retrofan> I was all time thinking that it's a High-end workstation XD
15:06:00 <Retrofan> good
15:06:11 <Retrofan> I will try it later after I learn more
15:06:15 <dch> zfs is 20+ years old, back end 1GB was a very powerful system I guess
15:06:20 <dch> yeah, no need to rush into it
15:06:52 <Retrofan> bec. there some strange stuff goes on my old mbr harddisk
15:07:14 <Retrofan> it's not corrupted, but when I add any file to them..
15:07:25 <Retrofan> it disappers next time I boot up
15:07:34 <dch> that sounds .. very bad
15:07:37 <Retrofan> I read that a problem in freebsd
15:08:06 <Retrofan> bec. I attached it to another Windows pc, and it's working well
15:08:32 <dch> well there you go then
15:08:54 <Retrofan> but I need to fix that, I am not a WIN user ;)
15:09:06 <Retrofan> more than 6 years
15:09:18 <Retrofan> never touched any WIN on real hardware
15:09:59 <Retrofan> I also want to learn about jails in freebsd
15:10:28 <Retrofan> I head it's very useful for security
15:11:15 <Retrofan> especially that I am using ports from earily 2000s
15:12:18 <Retrofan> I will use zfs for my next freebsd 14 upgrade
15:12:30 <Retrofan> when support end on 13.5
15:14:40 <Retrofan35> Please anyone kick my old nick; bec it changed du to internet connection
15:14:47 <Retrofan35> *due
15:26:40 <Retrofan> ah bad luck agian.. the rc.conf is deleted for no reason, and backup of it is on the corrupted partition :(
15:26:50 <Retrofan> so no internet
15:27:02 <dch> this sounds like very flakey hardware
15:27:25 <Retrofan> yeah
15:30:43 <rwp> ZFS snapshots FTW!
15:41:14 <Retrofan> ah
15:41:35 <Retrofan> finally fixed the backup partition, and copied the old rc.conf
15:41:54 <Retrofan> and internet + multi-user mode is working :)
15:42:15 <Retrofan> very happy to see freebsd13.5 when I log in :)
15:46:12 <Retrofan96> But.. my connection is 32k
15:46:13 <Retrofan96> super slow for anything
15:53:51 <Retrofan> Now I need to fix my internet to speed it up...
16:06:46 <Retrofan> err.. I really need to fix it
17:12:57 <Macer> Anybody here use gnome with FreeBSD?
17:13:30 <Retrofan> which version..
17:16:55 <divlamir> Don't tell me you've got Gnome 2 running..
17:18:28 <Retrofan> I got gnome 1 to run before XD
17:18:44 <Retrofan> I really like old gnome
17:18:48 <Retrofan> and ROX
17:20:33 <divlamir> Glad you got your box back running Retrofan
17:22:46 <Reinhilde> if only lmao
17:25:25 <divlamir> It sounds a bit like a house of cards, bit he seems to be able to keep it up somehow :))
17:38:18 <dsmith> Wow.  ROX.  Haven't seen that in a while...
17:47:04 <Retrofan> yeah rox and it's desktop stuff is the best!
17:47:43 <Retrofan> divlamir: My box is running, but no internet for upgrading other packages, so it's still fully working
17:48:17 <Retrofan> divlamir: yeah, my goal is to make stable as far as could :)
17:48:24 <Retrofan> *it
17:49:45 <Retrofan> I really want to share a screenshot here when I fully fix it
17:50:05 <Retrofan> using Wmaker+rox desktop and some other stuff for my x11
17:56:27 <dsmith> So I seem to remember wmaker on fbsd had a grayish backround with "leeter than you" on it.  Anyone remember anything like that?
17:57:04 <dsmith> This was about 20 years ago.
18:02:31 <Retrofan> I was using afterstep
18:02:55 <Retrofan> but it's not updated, and tons of bug
18:03:41 <Retrofan> loved it's desgin but I can't use it :(
18:04:17 <Retrofan> Time to go
18:04:20 <Retrofan> Bye!
18:21:38 * divlamir has back to the future vibe
18:22:40 <divlamir> I am ashamed to say it but last time I used *any* desktop (read window manager) on FreeBSD was like 20 years ago, sigh..
18:24:57 <TommyC> Do you still use a gui?
18:26:01 <divlamir> Sure, from my linux laptop ssh-ed in my FreeBSD box :)
18:26:42 <divlamir> It's been the year of the linux desktop for 20+ years for me :P
18:28:25 <TommyC> yeah, I'm there with you honestly
19:09:10 <Macer> Sorry.  I was thinking a newer version.
19:09:27 <Macer> I guess it sounds like gnome will be more dependent on systemd
19:09:50 <Macer> But I was wondering what version fbsd has in the repos. I guess there is always mate to go vintage.
19:10:32 <Macer> Almost sounds like I’d have better luck with plasma/kde if I want a ui for FreeBSD but I haven’t looked at it too hard since it takes quite a bit to get it going with Wayland.
19:11:03 <Macer> I think ghostbsd is mate by default.
19:12:25 <Macer> If I can actually manage to get the atheros wifi working in this thing I may give it a go with fbsd to see if I can do it. I just want to see if I could get a legit de going on an older A10 5800K
19:20:56 <rwp> I have been running a FreeBSD desktop with a wired ethernet since 12.1.  But I am a simple user of the desktop and don't stress things too much and don't need fancy things other than XTerms, Firefox, mpv, and sometimes LibreOffice.  I can't remember when I last started anything graphical that was outside of that set of programs.  Running i3 here also.
19:37:59 <wavefunction> It's kind of incredible how little we actually need in terms of discrete products
19:53:15 <Macer> rwp: ah. I know gnome can run on it quite well and that’s my go to when using Linux. I was just curious if the fbsd option was there.
19:53:42 <Macer> I think the only issue I have with it is that the onboard wifi won’t work but I haven’t tried too hard either.
23:20:18 <rwp> Macer, Up through 14.2 the WiFi performance on FreeBSD was measured in kbits per second and not megabits.  Sad.  The standard method was to use "wifibox" to have a bhyve linux kernel handling the wifi device.  Amazingly that works quite well!  In 14.3 a HUGE improvement to WiFi native performance.  It's hugely better in 14.3.
23:20:45 <rwp> But that caveat is why I mentioned that I am using a wired ethernet.  That's high performance and no problems there at all.
23:22:12 <rwp> As an i3 user I am not using Mate/GNOME2 but I thought it was working okay on FreeBSD.  It's GNOME3 which was a complete burn-down-the-house rewrite which is now strongly requiring systemd.  Avoid GNOME3.  But Mate/GNOME2 is okay as far as I know.