02:19:33 I'd like to see a good open source coding thing that isn't associated with Microsoft 02:22:37 any company that is willing to give back to the FOSS community isnt a bad company 02:22:47 lol 02:22:58 a company that went from fuck you open source to actually contributing t it 02:23:06 is again not a bad company 02:23:21 You must not follow the EEE philosophy 02:23:28 i mean thats how we got all the Linux emu stuff on Windows 02:24:30 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish 02:24:38 you might not think so, but this is still in effect 02:24:55 SponiX: simply put 02:24:59 do you use github ? 02:25:04 for example, they just pulled their c coding extension from being used with vscodium because it doesn't have their data collecting 02:25:28 cpet: nope, and it was a great move for them. They have access to everyone's code to train their AI and stuff 02:25:49 oh so youre one of those 02:25:50 ; 02:25:51 ;/ 02:25:53 SponiX: If it's free code anyway... But they haven't erased legal/copyright concerns. 02:26:00 how old are you? 02:26:39 where do you think they get all that AI knowledge from ? 02:26:45 Yes, Microsoft's best feature to their OS in the last Decade is having Linux run inside it. I will agree with that 02:27:04 i would rather use a linux terminal that power shell 02:27:05 They now have virtual desktops too. 20 years late 02:27:17 thats not an argument really heh 02:27:21 oh, and a package manager in the works 02:27:50 naw thats a thing now 02:27:56 I wasn't making an argument just a statement. Read the EEE and see how it applies today 02:27:59 you can use the package manager to install things in the shell 02:28:06 i just dont get all the hate of either OS 02:28:17 Sure it is a thing, it just has very little app support at this point 02:28:18 just like the other day when I said I use openbsd and was told gto and goto #.. 02:28:24 when we all share code 02:28:32 freebad has many driver which were ported from openbsd 02:28:35 and some from netbsd 02:28:40 we even have the blacklistd from netbsd 02:28:46 so again i dont get the OS hate 02:29:02 our make which is bmake is from netbsd 02:29:10 I'm not hating on any other BSD, or Linux for that matter. And I'm not denying that Microsoft does contributed. I am just saying you need to keep their motives in perspective 02:29:34 any large company will use its power to do what t need to be profitable 02:29:40 now the greatest thing is data 02:29:46 and AI is going to need data 02:29:49 Okay, maybe a bit of Linux hate. They now employ the systemd guy, and he is bring BSOD to Linux as a "feature" lol ... That triggers my PTSD a bit 02:29:52 cause data is how AI evolves 02:29:55 its just how it is 02:29:59 deal with it 02:30:01 heh 02:30:13 AI is not going any where 02:30:22 SponiX: That's not Linux hate. systemd and Linux are distinct things. But this might be good to move to -social. 02:30:36 systemd is a whole different ball game of hate 02:30:50 Neither of you is in #freebsd-social. It's a better place for this. 02:31:10 I'll get more on topic 02:31:30 this is exactly why I hate liberachat 02:31:35 the whole lets get back on topic 02:31:49 Is there a decent IDE for C code for FreeBSD that has debugging and everything included that isn't Microsoft related? 02:31:50 oh lets create a #topis #for #each #topic 02:31:56 cpet: No, this is the whole "there's a channel for this". 02:31:59 ports has many 02:32:13 mason: and thats stupid 02:32:46 Topics and Rules are for organization and chaos prevention 02:33:51 SponiX: what are you using ? 02:34:40 currently using nothing. I edit text best with vim. I'm debating trying to take on some coding 02:34:53 which language do you like ? 02:34:57 been learnign rust for a while 02:35:06 but im stuck on some of the rustlings examples so i stopped heh 02:35:26 well, the project I'd like to help is most likely standard C 02:35:42 SponiX: I'd recommend getting a copy of... GOOD. Was going to say, snag a copy of K&R and learn C. 02:35:53 SponiX: kdevelop is a nice IDE 02:36:02 I'd like to see if I can help get Linux kernel 6.14 drm over to FreeBSD. So I can use my 9070 XT GPU with it 02:36:13 SponiX: Are you on EFnet? 02:36:26 mason: is that where I need to be? 02:36:29 yes 02:36:37 most of the devs are on efnet 02:36:42 SponiX: Join EFnet and look at the channel #freebsd-xorg 02:36:55 or look at the wiki 02:37:13 The wiki isn't quite the same as the people working on that stuff. 02:37:29 https://wiki.freebsd.org/IRC/Channels 02:37:42 https://github.com/freebsd/drm-kmod/wiki/Porting-a-new-version-of-DRM-drivers-from-Linux 02:45:44 SponiX: Perl is also fun. 03:08:34 mason: Yeah, right after I jam a few toothpicks under my finger nails, and slide down a giant razer blade into a pool filled with alcohol -- I'll open up perl.org 03:10:04 thanks for the efnet guidance though 03:10:12 SponiX: That's an odd perspective. Perl is a lovely language. 03:10:15 SponiX: :) 03:11:09 Hating things you don't understand isn't a good look. 03:11:18 mason: sure, and some folks love COBOL and eating liver 03:12:43 true, I was under the impression that nothing good could ever be written in C# also. But Jellyfin works really well. So yeah, from time to time I am just flat out wrong. I'm okay with that 03:13:10 Do you use git? 03:16:22 Every language has its place, honestly. If a shell script won't cut it, will Perl or Python? Maybe one. If not, C? Rust? GO? Just gotta kinda build that ladder. 03:17:01 That's a tree, not a ladder. Different purposes. 03:17:08 mason: I've checked out a couple git source things before. That is about the extent of it 03:17:18 Obviously, the language of choice as you build that ladder is opinion and preference. But, it is a thing, regardless. 03:17:44 Let's just all go back to using asm. :3 03:17:54 mason: I'm talking about the ladder of decision. Not the branching out of choices... if that makes sense? 03:18:08 ek: Ladder implies linear. 03:18:14 lol 03:18:25 might be over thinking this a bit 03:18:39 mason: Yes. Just handling of code from one choice to the other. Decision making. Linear. 03:18:42 i think SponiX is over thinking this 03:18:56 but then again i blame ek 03:19:04 * ek be's blamed 03:19:28 only thing I'm really thinking about right now is taking my medicine and locating my cannabis gummies 03:19:29 heh 03:19:58 gummy head this explains a lot 03:20:52 cpet: And how many beers did you and I have tonight? :) 03:20:59 just 2 03:21:05 i ran out 03:21:12 but I dont do weed so 03:21:16 That's 2 more than me. I'd better catch up! 03:21:17 or any derivative of it 03:21:41 i just drink beer and thank the .mil 03:22:35 No weeds for me either. Although, there are many times I wish I could. 03:22:54 pot heads are whack 03:23:36 would be intereting to see if the VA would ever consider weed as possible pain medication 03:23:51 Perhaps burn-outs, sure. But, the occasional or minor recreational user I have no problem with. 03:23:53 but since they have a strong thing towards anything addcitvie i doubt it :P 03:24:02 Some of the smartest people I know use that stuff. It is what it is. 03:24:14 i hate the way it smells 03:24:22 but i smoke ciagr and people say the same about cigar so bleh 03:24:25 cpet: my VA shrink says if it was ever legal at the Federal level he would go with that and drop most of my other medicine 03:24:35 Wasn't alcohol qualified as more addictive that the weed many years ago? 03:25:04 SponiX: VA prescrbed 4 meds, they help but ... 03:25:30 SponiX: PTSD tends to say f you meds 03:25:31 heh 03:25:36 ek: actually cannabis itself isn't addictive body wise like smoking and alcohol. It is a bit habit forming though, as you like the feel 03:25:46 ek: i dont trust what they say about anything medical 03:25:57 SponiX: I am 90% Disabled 03:26:12 If something cannabis-related works better than a pharmaceutical drug, I would prefer that for myself or anyone I know. Especially a veteran. 03:26:17 cpet: sounds rough 03:26:18 SponiX: VA is fine as long as its not anything from dermatology 03:26:29 that shit takes like 2 months to get an apt 03:26:42 ek: alcohol for me 03:26:48 takes the pain away 03:26:59 i guess it eases all the blood vessel and such 03:27:01 i dont know :P 03:27:40 SponiX: most of that is habbit 03:28:11 SponiX: i stopped working cause my mood swing werent keen to work, so I started smoing more so each time I take my dog to the park i smoke a few cigars 03:28:13 I suppose it depends on the diagnosis and whatnot. But, of course there are things alcohol will help with. Dependency would be my biggest worry. 03:28:23 But really, #freebsd-offtopic is *right there* for you. 03:28:25 nw if I was working I probably wouldnt be smoking as much 03:28:31 oh jesus christ 03:28:36 so hiawatha 03:28:42 No one needs to hear about your alcoholism and drug use. 03:28:43 how can I get that to work with owncloud ? 03:28:48 there on topic again 03:29:01 lol 03:29:29 SponiX: well since we have upset mason we can continue this in msg or take it to /dev/null 03:29:47 So, can someone name a IDE in the ports not associated with Microsoft. when I did "pkg search code" vscode is actually all that really came up 03:30:03 genie 03:30:05 kdevelop 03:30:33 Ecelipse 03:30:37 with the C plugin 03:30:56 FreeBSD-offtopic ironically enough told me to join FreeBSD-Social 03:31:00 vim with syntax highligiht and auto replace 03:31:18 SponiX: shits dumb it really is 03:31:27 maybe I'll have a look at kdevelop. I like KDE Plasma stuff anyway 03:31:36 its a decent IDE 03:31:41 and its not just for QT 03:31:56 hopefully mason is not upset any more 03:32:14 lets all join #mason_is_upset 03:32:31 SponiX: have you tried kdevelop ? 03:32:45 well folks if you do want to continue the off-topic discussion with me. I am now in #FreeBSD-social 03:32:54 kdevelop-25.04.1 03:33:24 cpet: I haven't spent much time with any code since about 1999-2001 - honestly 03:33:50 ben playing with the rustlings thing 03:33:59 got stuck after example 12 03:42:13 thanks for the kdevelop recommendation. It looks nice 03:42:33 anything KDE looks nice 03:42:51 however kdevelops back in the early 3.x days looked like crap 07:11:28 Has FreeBSD/VPC seen any development lately? I remember hearing about it back in 2018. It would be a nice to have as an alternative to having to setup VLAN's on the hardware level. 07:18:43 Is it the same as vxlan ? 07:37:21 Yeap 07:39:05 has anyone been able to get calibre connecting to kindle paperwhite on FreeBSD? 07:39:58 it installed just fine, and I did the stuff the port message suggested, but it fails to connect to my kindle. first it complained dbus wasn't there, so I started it in dbus. Now it's complaining about Udisks not being there 07:40:30 I'd prefer not to install a bunch of linux crap I don't need if I don't have to 07:41:18 Heh 07:44:34 I'd love to be able to just email the books to my kindle, but of course stupid fuckin kindle software, if it's online, autodetects books not downloaded from amazon and deletes them 07:44:52 so I gotta keep it in flight mode permanently 07:47:02 just get a mac ^^ 07:49:43 megaTherion which one? 07:49:46 i got a m4 mba 07:49:49 System Information: Model: Mac • CPU: Apple M4 (10 Cores) • Memory: 24,00 GB • Uptime: 2 days • Display: 2940 x 1912 • OS: macOS Sequoia (Version 15.5, Build 24F74) 07:49:54 wsky: exacly 07:50:04 have one too 07:50:09 which one? 07:50:17 mini m4 07:50:22 what specs? 07:50:27 same as yours 07:50:28 I would rather stop using computers entirely than buy a mac or any other apple product, tbh 07:50:34 didnt get the pro version 07:50:43 mtll: why, it just works? :) 07:50:49 their laptops are too physically brittle for my clumsy ass, especially at that price 07:51:01 ya the laptops are expensive... thats true 07:51:11 display is insufficiently shielded, compared to a thinkpad for example 07:54:21 I bought a macbook over a decade ago, it was the first retina model I think. Literally the first time I dropped it, the display got cracked 07:54:39 you are not supposed to drop those things :) 07:55:04 slid from my lap onto the floor, so a distance of less than half a metre, and that was enough 07:55:15 yeah well I drop things a lot 07:55:26 my iPad is always doing these things but its not a very expensive model, it's still fine 07:55:31 sliding from couch, bed etc. 07:55:50 well it cost half the price of the mbp to replace the display 07:56:17 i have an iPad 10 07:56:39 and an iPhone 16e 07:56:45 and a mba m4 07:56:59 i fully enjoy the iCloud 07:57:00 nice, overall I think apple is really doing good products 07:57:05 meanwhile my thinkpad, I've had it for 7 or 8 years now, I've dropped it more times than I can could, lugged it around in a backpack, with no protective sleeve, threw it across the room in anger once. screen is still fine, all the components are fine 07:57:09 megaTherion same 07:57:31 than I could count* 07:58:32 and if something did break, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper to fix myself, without specialised screwdrivers 08:25:03 Apple are getting more and more like microsoft. Mac computers give you less and less control over what you can do with them. 08:25:20 what control is lacking? 08:25:39 And Macs run more and more spyware-ish apps 08:26:09 Well you can't just install GDB and run it for a start 08:26:11 my macs are the best arm64 dev machines money can buy 08:26:16 paulf: is lldb sufficient? :) 08:26:30 (lldb) version 08:26:31 lldb-1600.0.39.109 08:26:31 Apple Swift version 6.0.3 (swiftlang-6.0.3.1.10 clang-1600.0.30.1) 08:27:06 r0ni: absolutly 08:27:22 No. I work on Valgrind and until someone (probably me) implements an lldb interface then I'm going to want to use GDB almost exclusively. 08:27:38 paulf: brew install gdb 08:27:55 I hardly doubt that it cannot be installed but Im too lazy to test right now 08:28:31 installing GDB isn't difficult, running it is the problem 08:30:00 https://dev.to/jasonelwood/setup-gdb-on-macos-in-2020-489k 08:30:15  the Darwin kernel does not allow gdb to control another process without having special rights 08:31:16 well I know that they are very restrictive with drivers and older kernel interfaces, thats true 08:32:23 but you can always have a VM of something so... not really a problem that Mac OS cannot run every XYZ software natively 08:32:53 they have their toolset which works to them with clang etc. If you need something else ok, install a VM 08:41:46 freebsd runs excellently on vmware on macos as well, so it a non-point about apples tools 08:42:05 oh he left 09:05:39 for cli utils that take 0+ "-v" to be more verbose (like ssh, more -vvvv makes it output more detail) should there be a long option available? like --verbose? 09:06:51 normally there is 09:07:07 so the equivalent of -vv is --verbose --verbose? 09:07:15 yes 09:07:47 ok ty! 09:07:51 but not sure if it exacly works as promised :D long options mean writing more so Im not doing this often :) 11:36:29 so anyway, has anyone gotten calibre to work with kindle paperwhite on freeBSD, and how? 12:11:25 mtll: Last time I tried the usb communication was outdated and deprecated. I saw there has been some development since then. Which version are you using? 12:12:04 whichever version is in ports 12:12:14 I sort of got it working-ish 12:12:20 installed bsdisks 12:12:41 enable dbus, dbus-launch calibre as root, then it was able to put books on my kindle 12:13:11 it complained about permission when run as a normal user 12:13:27 I guess I'm supposed to write some polkit nonsense to fix that, but I can't be arsed 12:13:59 polkit, dbus, systemd etc is the sort of stuff I switched to freebsd to get away from :P 12:14:01 I'll try it too, just need a pkg upgrade here 12:15:14 vkarlsen: do you sideload a lot of books to kindle? 12:15:22 what's the best format to use in your experience? 12:15:37 mtll: I have to confess I installed Linux Mint on an old laptop and used Calibre there 12:16:01 the book I'm sideloading right now I could only find in PDF 12:16:11 <[tj]> mtll: I have always just copied files onto the storage manually 12:16:26 at least it's a good PDF, with actual text in it and markup structure etc 12:16:33 I usually convert to mobi, using Calibre 12:16:45 but kindle doesn't find any of the chapters etc when I just upload the raw pdf 12:17:39 huh, it just succeeded in converting to the amazon format 12:18:17 I could swear the last time I did this, on linux, to get that to work I had to do this whole crazy ritual involving running some kinda windows only amazon tool in wine 12:18:23 maybe that was another format 12:23:49 oh nvm, it did pick up the chapters in the pdf, wonderful 12:25:49 definitely getting a non-amazon e-ink reader whenever this kindle kicks the bucket 12:27:11 mtll: Did you add yourself to the operator group and edit devfs.rules to add usb/* as 0660 group operator? 12:27:32 I did yeah 12:27:55 weirdly enough, when I resorted to just running calibre as root, I forgot to use dbus-launch, and it still worked 12:33:43 I've been looking at some Kobo devices, but I can't justify the purchase while this one still works fine 12:39:40 yeah, same 12:53:13 vkarlsen: in terms of features, leaving aside shittyness caused by amazon's software etc, the only real complaint I have with my paperwhite 2 at the moment is that its charging input is micro-usb instead of USB C 12:55:20 Yeah, I'm being very careful not to lose the cable 12:55:24 but in terms of using it, it has all the features I need. sidelight, plenty of battery life, more storage than I could feasibly use up. and the display is perfectly fine 12:56:44 don't really care about colour or anything 12:57:30 it's just a distraction free device for ingesting text that doesn't tire my eyes 12:58:05 having limited functionality is sort of a feature, in that sense 12:58:24 the browser is close to useless. Good! 13:04:22 weird, converted to mobi and that worked alright, but the layout of the text is completely bonkers. the text like skips to a new paragraph mid sentence every 2 lines 13:06:40 example:

Previous tracing tools used static instrumentation, which adversely affects perfor-

mance even when not enabled. Dtrace supports both static and dynamic instru-

mentation.

13:06:44 and so on 13:08:57 mtll: are you trying to convert a PDF to Mobi? unfortunately this may be unavoidable, PDF loses the semantic information required to unhyphenise text 13:09:30 yeah 13:09:37 if you can find the source text in basically any other format (epub for example) it will probably work better 13:09:49 the PDF is OCR'd and stuff though 13:10:05 I mean it is a scan of the book, but the text is selectable and everything 13:11:04 you could convert it to epub, edit it in calibre to fix the formatting, then convert that to mobi, although if it's a book i imagine you're trying to avoid that much work :-) 13:11:20 yeah it's 1100 pages... 13:11:38 pdf was the only thing on libgen 13:12:08 (I will be buying the book eventually, but I wanna dip my toe in to see if this is something I'll actually get through or not) 13:14:02 I mean worst case I could just read it via the pdf on kindle 13:14:12 only issue there was the font size was a bit small 13:31:26 ivy: can't find an epub version or any other non-pdf format 13:31:47 gonna try to reconvert it setting calibre to "remove spacing between paragraphs and hope it helps a little 13:33:51 maybe have a look through calibre plugins, perhaps someone already wrote something to do this 13:35:45 yeah I'll poke around with different conversion settings a bit 15:49:07 is there any shortcut to build qmmp-qt* with mp3 support without having to build all the 1million dependencies ? 15:50:02 hernan604: Well, there is definitely at least one, but I wouldn't recommend it unless you know what you're doing. 15:51:50 I suppose there's two, actually. The ladder being more safe. 15:52:01 right 15:52:22 Find the 1million dependencies and "pkg install" them. Then, build what port(s) with mp3 support with the packages now in place. 15:53:18 This will save time now, but it will have mixed ports and packages. So, in the future, if you don't use ports (or Poudriere or something similar) it will likely break something. 15:54:04 ok 15:54:09 i g uess that works 15:54:14 thanks! 15:59:56 Sure thing. 16:40:17 "it will likely break something" sound scary. I've only needed to build ports when default flags, options and links didn't fit my use case. 16:46:02 register The "likely break something" isn't necessarily meant to be scary. Just a word of caution that the software that did work might not work anymore. 16:46:39 For example, if they do a "pkg upgrade" in the future and the upgrade comes without mp3 support (as it seems it does by default.) 16:46:56 in theory, a better way to do this would be using "poudriere bulk -b " although this doesn't always work well if the packages are behind the ports tree 16:48:11 ivy: I agree. Hence the recommendation to use Poudriere in the future. Especially now that it supports package dependencies (if available.) It certainly speeds things up. 16:50:30 Configuring Poudreire, running the builds (correctly), setting up the repo config, etc... could take days or weeks to do, though. The learning curve isn't exactly easy. So, if they just want mp3 support now, that's the quickest. If they brush on Poudriere afterwards and get everything in place, it should be fine. 16:50:35 A little wiggle room. :) 16:51:47 i feel like the default ports option could be adjusted now that many people are using binary packages, a lot of them are probably from when everyone built from source 16:52:01 the default options for individual ports, i mean 16:53:15 of course then you will probably get people complaining that no one cares about portmaster users :-) 16:55:39 portmaster is like a hammer, will always work in good hands 17:26:16 I use postmaster exclusively, myself. It's sure been a great tool for me over the years. 17:26:29 Err... portmaster. 18:32:36 The ek 18:33:40 The cpet. 19:23:33 so a disaster just happened, i broke the scren on a laptop.. how can i switch to hdmi without the main screen working? 19:23:49 cant see the arandr / xrandr output 19:24:04 however i was able to plugin the hdmi and drop to tty 2 19:24:10 and see the output in hdmi 21:25:22 mtll: I don't know much about polkit, but I got it working by changing all the tags to yes in /usr/local/share/polkit-1/actions/org.freedesktop.udisks2.policy, which is probably not recommended by anyone half sane