00:02:27 <mason> TommyC, cpet, badkat: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=286429
00:13:17 <mason> And... I've isolated the bad interaction. It's the default binds. "set -o" still shouldn't matter, so it remains a bug, but it's an interesting one. I'll try to get time to debug it further.
00:13:52 <mason> (Hidden backstory - I'm thinking of using /bin/sh as my default shell.)
00:15:14 <TommyC> mason: Why?
00:15:53 <TommyC> Many other shells have /bin/sh's features and more.
00:17:55 <mason> It's minimalist.
00:18:00 <mason> I like minimalism.
00:20:26 <TommyC> Don't get me wrong, I use /bin/sh for my scripts too, but for my user shell I like some features.
00:46:46 <smlavine> How fast is FreeBSD's /bin/sh compared to dash (used by Debian etc.)?
00:48:32 <mason> smlavine: They're both Ash. I'd bet they're indistinguishable.
01:04:12 <n|Phreak> Good evening , I had wayland and other compositors working great with 14.1 but I restarted and now I have no permission with seat0 , I have video group added , and no changes with kld in rc.conf
01:04:31 <n|Phreak> I didn't need XDG before do I need it now ?
01:04:51 <n|Phreak> Sorry wayfire and other wayland compositors worked before
01:05:28 <Macer> crazy question but does fbsd compress ram by default nowadays?
01:08:05 <cpet> What does that even mean ?
01:08:22 <cpet> Reminds me of the site that allows you to download . more ram
01:08:49 <n|Phreak> I get the error now "Could not set VT mode to enable process switching: Operation not permitted"
01:10:16 <cpet> Means you arent root or something else
01:10:29 <cpet> Jail?
01:11:47 <mason> Macer: Not by default.
01:12:03 <mason> cpet: https://docs.kernel.org/admin-guide/blockdev/zram.html
01:12:21 <mason> Macer: Maybe not at all. "Not by default" was the wrong answer.
01:12:53 <n|Phreak> Looking at the hyprland logs and wayfire logs I see "wayland backend cannot start" "DRM backened failed"
01:12:59 <mason> Looks like there have been a couple Summer of Code projects.
02:46:12 <cpet> hrm
02:47:16 <cpet> people really need stop thinking every OS is the same as Linux
03:15:18 <SponiX> cpet: why?  lol
03:24:42 <ketas> https://wiki.freebsd.org/SummerOfCode2019Projects/VirtualMemoryCompression
03:25:02 <ketas> there is hack for this but unsure if good
03:26:47 <ketas> in some cases it might be good to compress ram... MAYBE
03:32:02 <ketas> memory is fun, my android phone has 12g ram and 8g swap, if it compresses any of them, it would give even more (slow) memory, yet it doesn't do much, isn't even fast... and then i have box with 4g ram and 16g swap which somehow performs much better
03:35:05 <mason> I had RamDoubler on the Mac decades ago. Worked pretty well.
03:35:28 <ketas> you know in some sense i get why android chose to have java ui
03:35:32 <ketas> even
03:37:28 <SponiX> did they ever pay out to Oracle over that?
03:38:13 <ketas> i wonder if swap in compressed malloc based md would work
03:39:29 <mzar> are you compressing swap ketas ?
03:39:36 <ketas> or more like, would it be useful
03:39:42 <ketas> no i don't
03:39:49 <mzar> OK, go with zstd
03:40:42 <ketas> swap on zfs?
03:41:04 <ketas> or there was geom compression class?
03:41:10 <ketas> i can't see one
03:41:27 <ketas> could always swap into fuse or so
03:41:37 <ketas> this all sounds like crap
03:41:46 <ketas> i've done swap over nfs :)
03:43:44 <ketas> there are number of issues here
03:45:19 <ketas> as with zfs, what if you want to swap but in order to swap you need to allocate more memory which you can't since there's no memory left, and if you would have memory left you won't need to swap at all
03:46:59 <ketas> unsure why zram never went in
03:47:12 <ketas> too complex with less benefits?
03:47:33 <ketas> only thing that compresses now is zfs arc
04:02:23 <SponiX> "zram" is a thing in the current default Fedora Linux installs. For better or worse
04:06:00 <ketas> is it adaptive?
04:06:23 <ketas> i wonder how much benefit it gives you
04:06:53 <ketas> cba, more slower ram, less fast ram
04:16:36 <n|Phreak> Is anyone else having issues with seatd not finding any gpu's ?
04:16:55 <n|Phreak> using freebsd 14.1
04:21:14 <SponiX> n|Phreak: this is required for something you are doing with Wayland?
04:28:53 <n|Phreak> yeah wayland uses seatd
04:29:35 <n|Phreak> Everything was working just fine before , I install hikari and wayfire
04:30:03 <n|Phreak> now I can't get seatd to work properly
04:34:30 <SponiX> quick search tells me that 14.1 is EOL - although I have no recommendations on how to fix the seatd problem, I do recommend that you update to 14.2-RELEASE
04:34:31 <n|Phreak> yeah I just get error Waiting for DRM card device
04:34:47 <n|Phreak> hmm ok
04:35:18 <SponiX> I'm on 14.2-RELEASE with drm-61-kmod and amdgpu for an RX 5700 and it works well with X11. I have not tried anything Wayland YET though
04:35:50 <SponiX> Yeah, "freebsd-update fetch" and "freebsd-update install" should make a boot environment for you and get you up to speed on 14.2
04:38:35 <n|Phreak> yeah I'm running freebsd-update fetch now
04:38:51 <n|Phreak> reading the handbook
04:41:45 <SponiX> well, staying on the non EOL production release should at least give you security patches to keep the machine safer
04:42:07 <SponiX> and it is the easiest method to do that
04:43:07 <SponiX> Also there is an ABI change from 14.1 to 14.2 -- so chances are you might need to "pkg update" and "pkg upgrade" after the reboot making the 14.2 active
04:43:14 <n|Phreak> I just don't understand why all of a sudden seatd doesn't work , even though I haven't changed anything
04:43:27 <SponiX> I'm at a loss on that too
04:43:42 <SponiX> I've never used seatd for anything though
04:43:43 <n|Phreak> I'll do that , I see there are 135 patches in 14.2
04:43:52 <n|Phreak> not even wayland ?
04:44:20 <SponiX> I've not used Wayland on FreeBSD at all. It is my default on Fedora Rawhide KDE Plasma edition though
04:44:27 <SponiX> (Fedora Linux)
04:45:00 <n|Phreak> yeah I have it on all my devices
04:45:46 <SponiX> Oh, if you are a KDE Plasma fan, 14.2 has "kde" meta port now that installs KDE Plasma 6.3.4
04:45:53 <SponiX> I'm using that right now
04:46:20 <n|Phreak> nah I rather use a tiling window manager
04:46:36 <SponiX> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/GOKM9eM6/image.png
04:46:53 <n|Phreak> I stopped using kde / gnome  a long time ago
04:47:23 <SponiX> So, hyprland, sway ?
04:47:47 <n|Phreak> yeah from sway to hyprland
04:48:18 <n|Phreak> on wayland , or i3 xorg , enlightenment
04:49:50 <n|Phreak> hmm freebsd-update install didn't install 14.2 ?
04:50:21 <SponiX> Oh, you might want to disable your GPU driver from loading in rc.conf and load.conf -- because when  move to 14.2 those will need a re-install, and it trying to load the old one will likely give you a kernel panic
04:50:33 <SponiX> hmm, maybe it needs a "release" target before it does that
04:50:42 <SponiX> I'll have a look
04:51:13 <SponiX>   -r release   -- Target for upgrade (e.g., 13.2-RELEASE)
04:51:28 <SponiX> so try freebsd-update -r 14.2-RELEASE
04:51:43 <SponiX> and frreebsd-update install
04:52:29 <SponiX> could also be: freebsd-update -r 14.2-RELEASE upgrade
04:53:11 <SponiX> sorry for any confusion. I am New to FreeBSD
04:55:04 <n|Phreak> yeah its ok , I might have to fresh install 14.2 anyway
04:56:55 <n|Phreak> https://www.freebsd.org/releases/14.2R/installation/
04:59:53 <SponiX> yeah, those directions look a lot better than me "winging it"
05:01:27 <n|Phreak> so for future reference its , freebsd-update upgrade -r 14.2-RELEASE
05:03:37 <SponiX> Nice
05:30:11 <n|Phreak> lol didn't have to re-install anything , video drivers work just fine , hyprland is up .. so weird
05:35:15 <SponiX> Nice
05:35:21 <SponiX> so "seatd" is working now?
05:40:31 <n|Phreak> yeah , as soon the screen changed I new the video drivers were working again
05:48:45 <SponiX> lol
05:49:16 <SponiX> well, glad I helped you "fix seatd" even if neither of us know how it was done :P
05:49:39 <SponiX> I will sleep better knowing you are on 14.2 and getting security updates
06:00:48 <n|Phreak> yeah it was good advice
06:02:30 <n|Phreak> Thanks
06:09:27 <cpet> SponiX: cause people keep saying but it worked on Linux
06:09:32 <cpet> (TM)
06:53:22 <ivy> can anyone name a layer 2 networking protocol which is supported by a current freebsd release (so not ATM) and which is exposed as a network device (so not fibre channel) and which has a link level network address (so not PPP) but which does not use Ethernet addresses as its AF_LINK address format?
06:54:01 <tykling> o_0
06:54:20 <tykling> this was on final jeopardy last night
07:01:22 <cpet> LLDP
07:01:54 <ivy> lldp does not count since it's not exposed as a network device in freebsd
07:02:08 <ivy> (specifically, i want something that shows up in ifconfig)
07:04:40 <cpet> Token ring ?
07:05:02 <ivy> do we still have any token ring drivers?
07:05:07 <cpet> Yeap
07:05:36 <cpet> If we don't would not be that hard to port back in
07:05:54 <ivy> could you name one? :)  man -k token isn't turning up much...
07:09:14 <cpet> Oltr if you want to Install 5.4
07:09:19 <cpet> But that's all I got
07:09:24 <ivy> ifconfig is not helping either, the only format is has actual support for is "ether", the rest are just shown as generic lladdr
07:09:48 <cpet> Token ring is old don't think any is has support for it
07:09:53 <cpet> Besides hacking it
07:10:27 <cpet> But based on the above that's only thing that comes to mind
07:10:53 <ivy> the reason i ask is, i'm trying to decide if it's necessary to support address formats in link_addr(3) other than 48-bit ethernet addresses.  i can't find any situation where you'd actually need that.  (this is the function that parses the argument to 'ifconfig if0 link <address>')
07:11:50 <cpet> What does the RFC say ?
07:12:00 <ivy> there is no RFC for this
07:12:16 <ivy> i don't think link_addr is in POSIX either, it seems to come from BSD/OS
07:13:08 <ivy> actually no, it was in 4.4BSD
07:13:20 <ivy> of course back then they had lots of interesting network protocols, now it's all just ethernet
07:14:12 <MrHAPPY> wait? what?
07:14:28 <cpet> If we don't change the size of Mac addresses don't see why you would change that
07:14:54 <cpet> BSD 4.4 Reno
07:15:07 <cpet> I have src for that
07:16:57 <cpet> https://fossil.unix.beer/BSDHistory/dir?name=4.3-Reno
07:53:30 <Macer> sorry. i missed the whole conversation. but yeah. zram tends to be the way to go with linux. i was just curious if fbsd already compressed ram by default and if so, how. but it seems like it doesn't and that zram is in progress.
07:53:53 <Macer> i must have been thinking about arc compressing ram in zfs
09:59:05 <cpet> who was the one asking about zram?
10:00:17 <cpet> I can't sleep so I did some reading
10:00:25 <cpet> and mdconfig has a -o compress option
10:00:34 <cpet> not exactly the same as gram but similar
11:38:24 <CyberCr33p> I am trying to troubleshoot this issue: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=286442. Could someone who has Postfix installed please run the following command and report the results?
11:38:28 <CyberCr33p> postfix set-permissions upgrade-configuration
12:18:42 <polarian> hmm it doesn't seem the pf mailing list is very active, I wonder if it would have been worth cc'ing it to freebsd-questions which tend to get more responses than on more specialised mailing lists
12:18:55 <polarian> (I guess this is the issue with freebsd's sprawling number of mailing lists, its hard to keep track of them all)
12:19:24 <polarian> I am a big fan of how openbsd sticks most shit into misc@ so I can tune into what I am interested in and discard what I am not
14:41:15 <CrtxReavr> This thread details one of the most epic moments in BSD history: https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-security/2006-October/004050.html
14:48:45 * kevans facepalms
14:49:20 <kevans> not a word after Colin pointed out the idea was lifted from the release announcement, eh?
14:50:37 <kevans> you could probably argue that it was presumably not a default configuration, though then you get into arguing about how downstreams assess risk in writing their own announcements
14:58:46 <ketas> if GSSAPI authentication is enabled, but the likelihood of successful exploitation appears remote.
15:03:41 <kevans> indeed
15:33:37 <drobban> someone in here been able to build ollama for arm64 on freebsd?
15:56:24 <mzar> /14/14
15:56:26 <mzar> err
16:47:05 <badkat> drobban: didnt tried that, whats the problem?
17:07:39 <badkat> im having some issues with this new userland software in 14.2 "dsbdriverd"
17:08:17 <badkat> seems like some systemd stuff to me, its touching my interfaces, i hate that crap
17:09:08 <rtprio> never heard of it
17:09:12 <badkat> yesterday i deployed a new freebsd box that contains a bhyve VM, using a tap-bridge
17:09:18 <badkat> rtprio: its from 14.2
17:09:40 <badkat> this happens, the tap interface is getting destroyed by that new deamon
17:09:44 <badkat> -> https://paste.ofcode.org/mvmYb8XYUuTxgry5kTwrCU
17:10:11 <rtprio> what installed it?
17:10:43 <badkat> rtprio: nice question, im on that investigation now
17:10:52 <rtprio> it's not 'from 14.2' it's from the ports. uninstall it
17:11:06 <badkat> yes my bad is not base userland
17:11:52 <rtprio> or disable it `sysrc dsbdriverd_enable=NO`
17:14:30 <badkat> damn sorry for my blaming post :(, i got rageful thinking that was on base, didnt even noticed the bin path
18:01:31 <drobban> badkat: no port available for arm64 in ports, tried to see if I could figure shit for my self, but im getting snagged on the fact it tries to compile with support for gpu, dont care for the gpu, want to try it with cpu only.
18:02:22 <drobban> cant figure out how to disable those parts. Seems like I have to start learning go.
18:21:44 <mtll> drobban: I don't know go, but sounds like that should be something you can disable with a compile-time flag or something
18:21:57 <mtll> might not be though, but that would be good engineering
18:22:33 <drobban> mtll: yea, agree with you.. Ill have to study the build tools more.
18:30:26 <mtll> drobban: https://github.com/ollama/ollama/blob/main/CMakePresets.json
18:31:20 <mtll> my cmake is rusty, but looks like it has some support for building for CPU
18:33:37 <drobban> thanks for the pointers i'll have a look
20:25:32 <jaredj> hey i've got a fun question
20:26:01 <jaredj> so i decided to implement a CARP-redundant firewall/router inside VNET jails on two machines
20:26:18 <jaredj> i know this is pretty silly - that's not the question yet :)
20:27:38 <jaredj> i created vlan interfaces on my host for each tagged vlan; bridges for each vlan with the vlan interfaces connected (so i can have other jails on a given vlan along with the firewall); and epairs connected to the bridges with the b-sides handed to the vnet firewall jail.
20:28:35 <jaredj> CARP got pretty upset when epair101a sent a CARP packet from MAC 00:00:5e:whatever it is and then re0.1 suddenly sent with that MAC too
20:28:59 <cpet> jaredj: ever herd the song about carp ?
20:29:04 <cpet> no song listening no help
20:29:11 <jaredj> lol no
20:29:18 <megaTherion> I know perl carp...
20:29:41 <jaredj> so i'm gonna try with netgraph instead of all these bridges and epairs
20:31:56 <jaredj> i see that there is an ng_ipfw but not an ng_pf. i don't think i have anything amazing to use ng_ipfw for, and ipfw doesn't have pfsync like pf does
20:32:48 <jaredj> so i've watched the presentation about netgraph, read netgraph(4), read a FBSDJournal article about it - has anyone here used it in conjunction with a firewall?
20:33:58 <jaredj> that, i think, is the question. the only thing that needs fixing is my head because i'm not just running opnsense vm's, probably
20:34:21 <badkat> cpet: there was a carp song from openbsd but not sure, that one?
20:34:40 <cpet> badkat: every openbsd release they put our an image and a song
20:34:48 <cpet> carp had one and it was hilarious
20:34:51 <jaredj> mmmm, https://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#35 ?
20:34:56 <cpet> yeap
20:35:28 <jaredj> reading. laughing :D
20:35:30 <badkat> cpet: i know about the songs dude :)
20:35:43 <cpet> no you dont you just googled it after I mentioned it
20:35:44 <cpet> dont lie
20:35:58 <badkat> this guy...
20:36:33 <badkat> i didnt know the release related to the song
20:36:39 <badkat> why i mention openbsd then XD
20:36:41 <jaredj> *shrug* i sure did. :)
20:36:52 <jaredj> er, -- search for it
20:37:38 <badkat> cpet: you are more stupid than i tought, or maybe im flaming a handicaped guy :P should not expect more cognitive resolution from you
20:38:47 <jaredj> boy howdy. i had read a history of CARP on the Wiki page but this is far more colorful :)
20:38:57 <badkat> jaredj: any idea do you want to implement over netgraph?
20:39:22 <cpet> badkat: i was kidding ?
20:39:27 <badkat> cpet: then i was too
20:39:32 <cpet> ok then
20:39:44 <cpet> you are more stupider than I thought
20:39:48 <badkat> thanks
20:39:51 <cpet> np man
20:40:08 <jaredj> aww you gu -- um, peoples ^_^
20:40:43 <cpet> jaredj: seeing how some peple here cant take jokes
20:40:47 <cpet> what exactly is your issue
20:40:56 <cpet> netgraph is probably not they way to go
20:40:58 <jaredj> i certainly want to collect netflow data; i was gonna try to move to netgraph in the future, but with this crazy bridge contraption thing not working, it's forcing my hand
20:41:25 <cpet> we need configs, examples
20:41:27 <cpet> copy and paste
20:41:31 <cpet> not just it doesnt work
20:41:39 <cpet> dont be that linux guy
20:41:42 <cpet> forget his name
20:41:42 <jaredj> hell, there's no "it"
20:41:56 <cpet> well remove it
20:41:57 <badkat> jaredj: which netflow spec in special?
20:42:02 <cpet> and still show us some stuffs
20:43:28 <jaredj> mmm, i don't know enough to care which netflow version yet... *distant stare* i learned a thing or two about those last year
20:44:15 <jaredj> any preferred / forbidden pastebins or pic sites?
20:45:16 <cpet> just paste it here
20:45:25 <cpet> i hate using pastebins
20:45:31 <cpet> i hate looking at pastebins
20:45:37 <cpet> and i hate people posting pastebins
20:45:50 <cpet> and i hate those who think copying and pasting is hard to hard
20:45:58 <cpet> and i hate people who dont listen to the openbsd songs
20:49:01 <cpet> whats the default DOCSDIR ?
20:50:04 <jaredj> well - https://j.agrue.info/freebsd-vnet-jail-bridge-carp-fail.html is not a pastebin, fortunately :)
20:51:02 <cpet> jaredj: i dont know maybe smarty pants can help you
20:52:36 <badkat> jaredj: just put all the openbsd songs in a playlist then everything gets easier
20:52:45 <megaTherion> :D
20:52:49 <badkat> if you listen the 6.6 backwards there is an easter egg
20:53:13 <jaredj> i was happy to see 9front has a song this release
20:53:52 <jaredj> haven't listened to it though :D
21:11:09 <jaredj> cpet: pikchr <<EOF
21:11:14 <jaredj> HostA: [box "re0" height 200%; line dotted; box "re0.1"; line chop; box "bridge1"; line; box "epair101a" center ">" above rjust ">" below rjust;]; box width HostA.width+1cm height HostA.height+1cm at HostA.center; text "Host A" bold above ljust at 0.75cm n of HostA.nw; JailA: [Epair101b: box "epair101b" center "<" above ljust "<" below ljust;]; with w at 1cm e of HostA.e; box width JailA.width+1cm height JailA.height+1cm at
21:11:14 <jaredj> JailA.center; text "Firewall jail A" bold above ljust at 0.75cm n of JailA.nw; ; move to 3.5cm s of HostA.sw;
21:11:23 <jaredj> HostB: [box "re0" height 200%; line dotted; box "re0.1"; line chop; box "bridge1"; line; box "epair101a" center ">" above rjust ">" below rjust;]; box width HostB.width+1cm height HostB.height+1cm at HostB.center; text "Host B" bold above ljust at 0.75cm n of HostB.nw; JailB: [box "epair101b" center "<" above ljust "<" below ljust;];
21:11:32 <megaTherion> *lol*
21:11:58 <jaredj> with w at 1cm e of HostB.e; box width JailB.width+1cm height JailB.height+1cm at JailB.center; text "Firewall jail B" bold above ljust at 0.75cm n of JailB.nw; ; spline thick from JailA.n up 0.5cm  then left until even with 1cm right of HostA.nw  then down until even with HostB.sw  then right until even with 0.5cm s of JailB.s  then to JailB.s; text "Intended CARP redundancy" ljust at 1.5cm right of 0.5 between HostA.sw and HostB.nw
21:12:03 <jaredj> EOF
21:12:17 <megaTherion> please reformat in svg and encode in base64 :D