01:23:46 i think i'm closer to my zfs issues 01:30:28 ketas: what issues? 01:33:51 others finally pointed out that maybe the write cache will fill up ram 01:33:57 because storage is slow 01:34:11 didn't you limit the ARC? 01:34:24 but arc is for reads 01:34:38 ? 01:35:27 true 01:36:09 basically git pull on ports tree and poof 01:37:23 ok never had any issues on write 01:37:28 took few seconds until ram ran out 01:37:35 but must be specific to your zpool layout and/or devices 01:37:44 when it ran out, all userland was killed off 01:38:08 just 2 disk mirror 01:38:23 but should it happen? 01:38:24 spinning rust? 01:38:27 yes 01:38:35 nah I dont know why it would happen, IO will block if it cant write out to disk 01:38:37 1 could be failing now 01:38:52 i guess noone tested it well? 01:38:57 tested what? 01:39:15 apparently io will not block :/ 01:39:41 ZFS is well proven and tested 01:40:19 on good large systems mainly? 01:40:24 powerful 01:40:28 https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/server-freezes-when-using-git-to-update-ports-tree.88651/ 01:40:34 what's this then? 01:40:42 a lot of people use it, but I wouldn't bother with it on certain memory restrained systems 01:40:47 i found it elsewhere too 01:41:00 zfs is well proven and tested, but also using native encryption will cause random in-memory snapshot corruption... 01:41:24 ketas: yeah 2GB RAM is stupid 01:41:26 what about io restrained 01:41:35 in my case it's 4 01:41:48 works except when it doesn't 01:42:09 ketas: ZfS was simply not designed for memory constraint devices 01:42:24 nor io, right? 01:42:26 so dont work against its design, use the tool which fits 01:42:31 fwiw, i use zfs on 2GB systems and it works fine, if you have a lot of memory pressure you may need to limit arc 01:42:50 i haven't tested performance but those systems are generally not performance-limited and the benefits are worth it 01:42:54 now it self tunes better? 01:43:00 previously zfs was much worse 01:43:50 unsure if it's now better or worse if it can handle low ends better 01:44:18 RAM is so cheap these days... no one bothers 01:44:26 any typical VPS has like 8GB nowadayx 01:44:28 -x+s 01:44:56 zfs actually has several good features for embedded systems too 01:45:04 nah 01:45:09 checksums, multiple copies, compresses 01:45:16 why would embedded systems want that? 01:45:20 that's not even remotely true. i have a bunch of VMs that act as routers (so they need to be separate VMs) and upgrading them all to 8GB would be a notable expense 01:46:01 but should zfs keep accepting writes nonblockingly until ram runs out? 01:46:17 which is what seems to happen 01:46:37 i bet you can run out of 2tb ram too 01:47:01 unsure if storage is that slow, but who knows 01:47:34 storage might also get slow due something bottlenecking 01:47:46 that would cause everything to crap out? 01:48:13 its not ZFS fault, nor FreeBSDs. If you are OOM you are OOM... nothing will help about that 01:48:33 its not only ZFS which wants RAM, git wants RAM too... the OS too... you are just hitting the limit and then you are out of luck 01:49:15 just give it 4GB more an you'll be fine, for sure 01:49:33 maybe 01:50:23 we have the same old story since ZFS became a thing on FreeBSD in the first place, people wanting to use it on 32bit and it failed.. then some optimizations came.. but its not really what its designed for 01:51:06 i bet packedGitWindowSize = 32m packedGitLimit = 128m limits the amount of writes? 01:51:09 no? 01:51:22 that eliminates the issue seeminly 01:51:43 maybe try to check with iostat then 01:52:29 without limits the machine goes down so fast you barely switch tmux window 01:52:32 fun 01:55:00 if it would just start swapping you have more time 01:55:14 but here it can't 01:55:40 well if its swapping you are already in trouble too 01:57:15 depends what swapped out 01:57:33 heh 01:58:00 it's just memory that is very slow :p 01:58:48 there's something around txg you can poke i see 02:04:14 and, why would embedded systems want checksums, multiple copies of data or compression? 02:04:24 because 02:04:30 what data? 02:04:37 indeed zfs is not for that 02:04:44 embedded systems are like industrial machines 02:04:49 microcontrollers etc. 02:04:59 raspi's are not embedded 02:10:40 like copies=3 :p that could give some redundancy on flash? 02:11:00 actual rpis are actually used in some places 02:11:48 ZFS is just a memory hog, nobody want that 02:12:07 where does it's memory go anyway? 02:12:08 nobody wants ZFS. nobody 02:12:25 not even the developers of ZFS want ZFS 02:12:32 hernan604: nobody working in industrial applications with embedded systems 02:12:36 its simply a completly different field 02:12:36 what do they want then 02:12:47 ZFS is about big storage 02:13:31 ketas: certified proprietary devices which have a lifespan like 20y probably :) 02:13:49 megaTherion: dont use ZFS 02:13:55 its definately not for you 02:14:15 use windows and whatever they have there 02:14:15 I use ZFS where it suits :) 02:14:30 ok 02:14:37 yes sure, windows is also a thing in many companies :) 02:14:39 meh my bbb is 10y old and has old fbsd in it 02:14:41 ufs tho 02:14:50 :p 02:14:52 what is bbb? 02:15:03 beaglebone black 02:15:22 ya but those are SBCs 02:15:24 big difference 02:15:39 it's soc is actually moderatively industrial 02:15:41 my 1gb vps runs with zfs without much issue even. 02:15:54 foxiepaws: so help ketas please :) 02:16:09 my 512m machine once did too 02:16:11 :p 02:18:02 what features are you using? deduplication doesn't work in that size obviously. 02:18:19 megaTherion: well sbc is embedded, no? 02:18:25 no, dedup is off 02:19:34 ketas: to me its more like dedicated devices, development boards, arduinos or smaller scale stuff like 16bit MCUs 02:19:59 unsure what dedup is for, 10k people sharing same cat photo around? 02:20:13 vpses with same os? 02:20:21 i mean, thats a good way to describe the usecase lol. 02:20:55 megaTherion: that term eroded i guess 02:21:05 "embedded" 02:21:49 just call them small computers now 02:22:22 but yeah, if its not working by default, and its x86 <1gb ram, i'm not exactly sure what the problem is. on one machine i did have to mess with tunables for arc and the like but thats not been the case for quite some time 02:22:28 sorry to say 02:22:51 yes that was fixed i think 02:23:12 from one machine i recalled 40mb/s write 02:23:16 was also wtf 02:23:26 it was not disk 02:23:37 this was ages ago too 02:23:41 yeah i had some issues with really bad ZFS performance for a while but it did eventually clear up 02:23:47 like 2013 02:24:20 i think it's large write burst in my case 02:24:27 i hate to be the "works for me" person,but when you don't have the issues or they just go away for you anyway without even looking... it's pretty impossible to figure out whats going on 02:24:31 that doesn't block 02:24:50 I'd still just get more RAM :) 02:24:52 i did eventually trace back issues for myself recently for that to the virtio driver for my host 02:25:15 didn't matter what OS was loaded, the hypervisor was getting slammed 02:25:19 i also had thing like buildworld failed on fs issues since i was just gitting around and / or cleaning obj 02:25:36 i was wtf, waited and ran it again, it was ok 02:25:49 so who knows 02:25:50 pretty sure it was because of other people on the same server that got banned off for abusing [lot of steal time and the like] 02:27:00 more RAM wouldn't have fixed that, and changing OSes or FS wouldn't have either. like to verify it i loaded a livecd of linux and it still was unusable 02:29:34 would you have preferred the writes to lock up or whole machine to go down? 02:29:42 virtual or real 02:30:26 uh, for me, i don't really think that it would have made a difference either way. 02:30:40 writes could open back up but if things get killed, data is gone 02:31:26 thats true, my workloads are primarily pretty chill and non-life-critical. a bit of dataloss sucks but isn't a big deal 02:32:27 for cases it does matter. i'd probably not be using a VPS with 1gb ram tbh 02:32:32 it would be quite annoying too 02:32:43 yep it is incredibly annoying 02:33:02 i saw bug of someone's zfs backed mysql server going down 02:33:17 was much bigger beast 02:33:28 ram, drives 02:33:34 still went down 02:35:03 idk and? 02:35:24 sucks, did it get reported? has anyone else duplicated? 02:35:35 shit breaks sometimes. just how it is. 02:35:45 seems similar 02:35:58 and bug is 2018 iirc 02:35:59 open 02:36:03 :) 02:36:22 it just needs specific conditions 02:37:20 has anyone else duplicated is the main point, just because a bug is open doesn't mean that its like, actually a bug in the software. I've had disk controllers take down my metal a few times and had to replace them, but it looked like a software bug 02:37:58 i think those are same issue still 02:38:08 so answer is yes? 02:38:25 but it's not very common issue? 02:38:36 because it's not very common cause? 02:40:40 gnop delays can maybe emulate this 02:41:46 i think when i asked people to test this, it didn't work because they used some super fast vm host 02:41:52 just limited the ram 02:51:27 no idea if found bug or limitation 02:51:42 i 02:52:20 reminds me the serial data corruption issue :p 02:53:07 got random input going to output mixup that i found no way to figure out 02:53:19 finally suspected a burst of data 02:53:37 tested it deliberately and it worked 02:54:37 unsure if it was usb uart hw, or driver or kernel 02:55:48 was even suggested to run memory checks, like overflows etc 07:38:01 so when i try to do `pkg install kde` i get all sorts of errors, "No SRV record found for the repo FreeBSD" and a bunch of others, whats that about? 07:38:48 lol 07:38:53 i think i figured it out 07:38:59 the ethernet cable wasn't pushed in all the way 07:39:40 lol in my defense, i think the cables little lock is worn smooth 08:38:04 sooo I installed KDE Plasma via the instructions on freebsd.org but... how do I start it up? 08:38:12 it feels like theres a step missing 08:38:41 GoSox: Do you want a gui login screen? 08:38:51 yeah might as well 08:39:02 Then you should install and enable sddm 08:39:38 i did 08:39:43 Did you start it too? 08:39:53 what do you mean, did i start it too? 08:40:00 service sddm start 08:40:25 Installed software doesn't just automatically start running 08:40:36 good morning! 08:40:46 "sysrc sddm_enable="YES"" that should start it at system boot, no? 08:40:55 Yes 08:41:00 then yes, i started it 08:41:20 But no login screen presented itself? 08:41:36 nope 08:41:40 just the normal text one 08:42:01 What happens when you do service sddm start? 08:42:13 standby, doing a second reboot just to mkae sure 08:42:19 That starts it at system boot. Did you re-boot after setting it? 08:42:30 Welp, guess that answers that. 08:43:52 "service sddm start" gives me sddm already running 08:43:55 and a pid 08:44:22 Press alt-f9 in the console 08:44:42 nothing happens 08:45:12 Anything in the system logs? Issue with graphics driver? 08:45:42 i don't know how to answer those questions. I can tell you this is a fresh install I just set up the other day and haven't done anything with except install sudo and nano 08:46:29 Take a look at /var/log/messages, there might be some error messages there 08:46:37 /var/log is where your log files usually go. Look for Xorg.0.log too. 08:48:05 You might need something from this section: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/x11/#x-graphic-card-drivers 08:48:54 the messages log has a lot in it but nothing that looks obvious as a problem to me 08:50:58 this machine has intel integrated graphics, so i need that driver package for kde? 08:51:19 there aren't "generic" drivers that get defaulted to? 08:52:55 Install the i915kms pkg 08:53:47 and if that doesn't work you can fall back to using the unaccelerated frame buffer scfb iirc 08:54:19 you should also be starting dbus 08:54:35 dbus start is in my startup file 08:55:16 still no GUI even with the intel drivers installed 08:56:09 You loaded the kernel module? 08:56:28 i dunno what that means? 08:57:01 ahh shit 08:57:35 ok i'm just now seeing on the 'install a desktop' page that it says i should already have the x window system installed. that doesn't install as a dependency when you install your UI? 08:57:52 Correct, the kde metaport does not install xorg 08:58:13 well, probably mystery solved then 08:59:01 It doesn't depends on x because there are other ways of using it 09:03:01 does i have to install x window first, or does it not matter? 09:03:07 like can i just install it now and will it all work 09:03:15 Order doesn't matter, you can do it now 09:03:34 ok 09:03:39 i'm actually not going to :P 09:03:49 this will be my project for next time 09:04:07 the good news is that i am keeping very detailed notes so i should be able to blast through this setup next time 09:04:21 can I in someway passthrough this https://pastebin.com/z9sfkJbd to a virtual machine in bhyve so I can acess my usb-dongle for zigbee ? 09:08:03 what do rackmount servers typically have for GPUs on built in video ports? just basic intel integrated? 09:23:05 depends on vendor agreements;) 09:44:05 well then i guess i'm in for a surprise when my server arrives ... after i order it ... after i pick it ou 09:44:06 t 09:44:26 i want to put one or two low end GPUs in there but just for BOINC crunching, not for any video use 11:30:39 nwe: you can only pass through an entire PCI device, so if this hub is an integrated one, probably not directly. It would need its own PCI card, these are not expensive and almost any one would do. 12:00:33 does anyone know of a pam_time module for openPAM? Can't seem to find one in the ports tree or via google 12:07:44 dch: maybe I can use socat for it instead.. 12:11:17 oh I see, login.conf has all the pam_time functionality in FreeBSD 12:12:59 how can I see which usb-device is connected to cuaU0 ? 12:56:54 I trying to get SONOFF dongle to work over USB->TCP via socat.. main host running freebsd, and all the guests too.. https://pastebin.com/pmk1ffK0 has someone get it to work? 13:24:36 does anybody recall how to get tcpdump & pflog interface to list what pf rule blocked traffic? 13:24:43 or am I mis-remembering things again 13:27:52 all my block rules have log on them 13:28:08 `tcpdump -venttti igc0 port 2200` seems sensible enough 13:38:28 <[tj]> dch: do you need to request link level headers? 13:38:49 I added a `-l` already and don't see anything different 13:38:51 <[tj]> don't you need to capture on the pflog interface? 13:38:57 <[tj]> I've not done this for a very long time 13:39:07 #facepalm 13:39:22 <[tj]> write a blog post :D 13:39:39 Oh yes I will, because #FutureMe will forget this again 13:40:20 the irony is I just checked, and I have the precise command in my diy-ials talk 13:40:24 so double fail for me 13:41:04 s/ials/jails/ 13:47:57 how can I see which port ugen0.2 will have in /dev/cuaUXX ? or will it be ttyU0 ? 14:01:58 nwe: depends, you want cua here 14:02:20 as for which device made it, it's in sysctl somewhere 14:02:42 and logs if recent plugin 14:03:29 ketas: demsg says umodem0: on usbus0 14:03:37 so I guessing /dev/cuaU0 14:04:28 sysctl dev | less -p ' U0' 14:04:33 there it is 14:05:31 ketas: thanks :) 14:06:22 earlier log 14:06:30 i don't know 14:06:42 i never tried to redirect usb 14:06:53 wait 14:07:03 or i mean serial 14:07:48 I using in my guest socat -d -d -d pty,raw,echo=0 tcp:10.50.20.2:8888 and creating a pty device 14:08:18 should it even work like this? 14:08:57 and using that pty device in zigbee2mqtt configuration file but get stuck on this https://pastebin.com/hfKi9BCd 14:09:01 there's serial over ip redirector as well 14:09:42 tcpdump network maybe? 14:10:00 i'm unsure how those things work 14:10:08 do they do ascii? 14:10:15 that would be helpful 14:12:44 one solution is that I running this zigbee sonoff-usbd-dongel from rpi 14:16:38 wait it also runs on fbsd 14:16:44 there's port too 14:16:56 yes everything is running freebsd 14:16:58 https://www.freshports.org/comms/zigbee2mqtt/ 14:17:12 so what's the issue? 14:18:42 the issue is that the dongle is on the doomU and I cant usb-passthrougth so I can use the usb-dongle inside my virtual machine 14:19:15 well, something runs, it's not same i think 14:19:25 but you wanted it to be mqtt :p 14:20:03 ehm what 14:20:25 what's the vm host and guest again 14:23:01 [usb-dongle]->[server] -->[virtual-firewall(freebsd) bhyve with dhcpd ] --> [zigbee (freebsd) bhyve] [mosquitto (freebsd bhyve)] 14:23:47 the problem I have is that I dont have access to the usb-dongle inside my virtual machine named zigbee 14:24:17 I then I think maybeI can use socat to share my USB(dongle) over TCPÅ to my virtual machine 14:25:12 oh complex eh 14:25:16 setup 14:25:31 when I suing scrren /dev/pts/2 Im connected and can see traffic with tcpdump 14:26:03 using* 14:27:19 so why not putting zigbee2mqtt to host? 14:27:24 easier? 14:27:38 it's just ip after that 14:27:59 yeah maybe thats better idea :D 14:28:02 no need to proxy usb or serial 14:28:09 both could still work too 14:28:42 but it looks like it´s working in some way ^^ atleast I can connect too it with screen :P 14:28:56 dedicated serial over ip emulators exist too 14:29:01 but maybe as you said it´s easoer 14:29:07 and are in ports as well 14:29:18 but if simpler solution works 14:29:50 I haven't try that 14:29:59 maybe even with socat 14:30:07 never tried any of that 14:30:26 ketas: for ports are you using portmaster or? 14:30:42 still portupgrade :p 14:31:01 or maybe just pkg install it :) 14:31:03 i could do poudriere eventually 14:31:05 ketas: how's ZFS? 14:31:11 yean, you can do that 14:31:16 megaTherion: same 14:31:24 :( 14:31:27 i still wonder if it's zfs 14:31:32 or mmap 14:31:43 now mmap is at fault 14:31:45 how come? 14:32:07 I went to bed yesterday, didnt track what happened - was really late here 14:32:15 i'm not really getting what mmap actually does but i have vague idea 14:32:50 I bet its mapping memory 14:32:51 there are issues around that as well i see 14:33:02 well no shit but? 14:34:26 nah, complex stuff 14:44:00 rescue here: https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1gghsy0/comment/luzjsuz/ 14:44:03 :p 14:44:19 well i knew most of it 14:44:29 anyway, whatever it is 14:44:41 ram is nomnommed off 15:04:44 ketas: there is also a manpage 15:05:16 but mmap is most likely not the cause of your problem 16:36:07 b1 16:36:51 ketas stop teasing the patrons lol 16:40:11 ..is there any serious freebsd irc channel on this network? 16:40:24 like #bsdcode used to be on efnet 16:41:03 this one seems to be #freebsd-social when it's not supposed to be XD 16:44:07 have all the kernel devs (and people who understand it) fled irc? 16:44:10 Koston, there's #freebsd-dev 16:44:19 CrtxReavr, appreciate it 16:44:28 I think a lot of them are still on EFnet, honestly. 16:44:53 There's also #freebsd-ports 16:44:59 Koston: efnet, yeah 16:45:18 EFnet is a mere shadow of its former self though. 16:45:19 Sadly. 16:45:24 * CrtxReavr wipes a tear. 16:45:26 that's useful, I do have a few ports to submit 16:45:36 well, efnet was always just a fork of ircnet 16:45:48 like linux pretending to be a unix 16:46:16 efnet still exists? 16:46:34 * CrtxReavr stabs johnjaye (yes, in the face). 16:46:41 to be serious though, an unfortunate split - people demand drama, but users just wanted function 16:46:49 i think i was more of an undernet fan myself 16:46:59 * Koston quakenet troll lolz 16:47:20 we had fistfights at our primary school over irc wars in mid 90s 16:47:22 EFnet prior to channel timestamping was probably the most fun I've ever had on the internet. 16:47:56 i'm imaginingn efnet like this old cave and if you spelunk in far enough you find a wizened freebsd dev floating over a rock. 16:48:06 timestamping is an irc protocol feature? 16:48:42 I spent a lot of time over at efnet, CrtxReavr was one of the old faces there 16:48:52 12:48 -!- Channel #freebsd created Wed May 19 09:50:15 2021 16:49:33 There was a time when that wasn't tracked. . . which allowed people to ride a split in and take ops. 16:49:41 And oh, what fun that was! 16:49:47 IRCNet #freebsd and especially #unix killed themselves over irc wars.. 16:50:00 CrtxReavr, that's how most of the irc wars worked yeah 16:50:16 when having a bot written in C mattered, because it was just faster 16:50:22 I had a front-row seat to some crazy shit in #unix on EFnet. 16:50:52 Like when irc.eskimo.com got de-linked. 16:50:55 I was just a patron of #unix on IRCNet.. not that it was any less crazy I assume, but it sure killed itself 16:51:03 poor eskimo lol 16:51:15 "Nanook" bragging about how secure his shit was. . . when he was already owned. 16:51:24 LOL 16:51:48 I guess it was ultimately for the common good that US and EU irc networks split back in the early days 16:52:12 why did they do that 16:52:24 I won't reveal who, but someone already owned him, then after he bragged, started encrypting his backups. . 16:52:28 but IRCNet #unix is truly a miserable place nowadays, they still have a +k and there's like ten people left 16:52:49 johnjaye, well it was US vs EU split, do the math 16:53:18 Then had to fight to old on to it for weeks while the relevant backups got older and older. . . 16:53:49 Then nuked everything. 16:54:22 EFnet had a rule you got delinked if you were exploited. . . and irc.esmkimo.com was no more. 16:55:08 it's so silly too, it wasn't more than a few years ago I last checked efnet website and it still somehow claimed to be The Original IRC Network. for one it doesn't matter one bit, but it's also untrue and everyone knows it 16:55:32 let old people have their fights I guess 16:55:44 As far as anything that still remains, it's probably as close to true as anyone can claim. 16:57:04 for all intents and purposes I guess that's true 16:57:40 When I dipped my toe into IRC in college, (in '91) it was EFnet. 16:58:12 I believe the protocol was written and first implemented in '89. 16:58:28 I was just sad it had already split by the time I started gaining clue (around '96/97 I guess?) 16:59:07 If you want to be an IRCop and no one will make you one, then you start your own network. 16:59:11 but IRCNet for any *nix has been a pathetic excuse for idiots say "hello" for a few decades now 16:59:59 #unix in particular performed a magnificent suicide by setting +k permanently and having an intense civil war over it 17:00:58 let us older people be an example for the younger generations. or... not do that? 17:01:11 embarrassing 17:03:54 I have UNIX tattooed on my fingers, which is unlikely to come off next time I shower. it was supposed to stand for live free or die (fighting), not live to have moronic irc wars 17:04:46 man, it's a shame bash.org shut down 17:05:51 I had it done over two decades ago now and I still love UNIX, what it stands for in my mind which is POSIX mainly, and the idea of working together to create a common standard 17:07:56 but now everyone wants to have their own idea of doing the same thing, over and over again. I couldn't believe it, there are actual $PS1 _managers_ entire software suites designed to replace your shell prompt and much of your shell functionality. what the hell are you doing 17:08:37 I want to move to the countryside and grow pumpkins and use copious amounts of LSD pretending none of this ever happened 17:11:34 Koston: Tatoo? Are you from the Yakusa? 17:12:29 I'm just an old punk 17:12:49 covered in tattoos, can't really visit japan for that reason sadly 17:15:30 Koston: You might like this comedy scatch: https://youtu.be/DsdSTY6Y-rs 17:15:54