02:39:21 <GoSox> hello. Mac guy here trying to plan a transition to a rackmount freebsd server
02:40:08 <GoSox> this is kind of a hardware question (i think) but still relevant. If I get an old HP server with SATA drive bays, but no M.2 slots, and I get a PCI M.2 carrier, will that be bootable? Or do you need something special to make it bootable like you do on Macs/macOS?
02:42:16 <ivy> GoSox: what do you mean by "carrier"?  if it's just an M.2 NVMe slot on a PCIe card, it *should* be bootable, but this depends entirely on your hardware, or more specifically firmware -- older firmware (BIOS) simply doesn't have the support to bootstrap from NVMe
02:42:49 <GoSox> yes a PCIe card with ideally 2 or 3 M.2 slots on it, thats probably what I'd be going for
02:42:54 <ivy> it could be the firmware supports NVMe boot even if the hardware doesn't include M.2 slots, though, those are not necessarily tied together
02:44:11 <ivy> the only way to know for sure is to simply try it, but in case it doesn't work, you could work around it by installing FreeBSD on the NVMe, then configuring a spare SATA disk to contain the EFI partition and nothing else, which would load FreeBSD from the NVMe
02:44:29 <ivy> that allows the firmware to load the FreeBSD loader from the SATA disk
02:44:39 <GoSox> hrmmm
02:45:09 <GoSox> the ability to boot from the m.2, does that "feature" have a name? In other words, if I have the full spec sheet for the server, is there something in there that might tell me?
02:45:31 <ivy> off hand i don't know -- i don't think there's a specific term but it might be called something like "NVMe boot"
02:45:44 <GoSox> ok
02:46:24 <ivy> unfortunately, even in enterprise hardware, vendors tend not to document this sort of low-level feature very well
02:46:44 <ivy> because they assume you'll use the hardware shipped with the system -> no M.2 slots -> no need to mention NVMe boot
02:46:53 <ivy> even if they might still have included that feature in the firmware
02:47:04 <GoSox> yeah
02:47:36 <GoSox> i'm looking at old stock HP ProLiant systems and their specs are just what i need, including price. EXCEPT I really want an M.2 boot drive for the fastest possible response time to http requests
02:49:40 <CrtxReavr> GoSox, old hardware doesn't always save you money. . .
02:49:49 <CrtxReavr> You gotta consider power usage.
02:49:57 <GoSox> this is going in a data center
02:50:02 <GoSox> "free" power
02:50:05 <CrtxReavr> Also, HP Proliants suck.
02:50:05 <GoSox> or at least, flat-rate power
02:50:23 <ivy> wow, you have a DC that doesn't charge for power?
02:50:32 <CrtxReavr> The Proliant name hasn't meant shit since HP bought out Compaq.
02:50:58 <GoSox> do you have another suggestion? For a 1U, dual PS, LOM-equipped, DD4-era machine that will be nice and affordable?
02:51:25 <GoSox> its a high traffic web server, but its still just a web server, and web serving is not a demanding task by today's server demand standards
02:51:55 <CrtxReavr> Dell PowerEdge, Cisco UCS C-chassis, SuperMicro maybe.
02:52:06 <ivy> meh, poweredge is not inherently better than proliant
02:52:21 <ivy> the proliant stuff is fine, tbh all x86 enterprise stuff is basically comparable
02:52:41 <CrtxReavr> Um. . . nonsense.
02:53:46 <GoSox> my current machine is a 2009 Apple Xserve :P
02:54:03 <CrtxReavr> PowerPC?
02:54:04 <GoSox> and if it was local, I'd probably just replace the dirves and install freebsd on that. But thats not practical
02:54:08 <GoSox> no no, intel
02:54:10 <ivy> 2009, PowerPC?  unlikely
02:54:16 <GoSox> i did have PPC ones way back in the day
02:54:25 <GoSox> a G4, then a G5, then a series of intels
02:54:42 <GoSox> 2009 is the final year they made them, i don't even remember the specs, dual CPU with some large amount of cores
02:54:56 <CrtxReavr> I thought Apple ended the Xservs before they went Intel.
02:55:15 <GoSox> heres how little processing power web serving takes, even with related databases and PHP scripts, I still have BOINC running and using 50% of this machine's CPU cores at all times
02:55:29 <GoSox> nope the intel switch was 2006, there were 3 or 4 intel Xserve models
02:55:34 <ivy> so out of interest, what's wrong with your Xserve that you want to replace it?
02:55:46 <GoSox> its running macos
02:55:48 <GoSox> ancient macos
02:55:50 <GoSox> :(
02:55:51 <fink> i think what that really means is you're not running a high-traffic site...
02:55:52 <ivy> hah, ok
02:55:54 <GoSox> dangerously old macos
02:55:55 <fink> :|
02:55:57 <ivy> you can't boot FreeBSD on it?
02:56:01 <GoSox> also the hard drives are dying
02:56:13 <GoSox> well its all relative i guess
02:56:13 <CrtxReavr> Spinning rust. . ..
02:56:51 <GoSox> physicall access would be needed to install freeBSD, and Ive never set up a BSD machine before, so I need to figure out how to do it without having the whole server be down
02:56:56 <fink> i'm willing to bet you could spin up an aws lightsail instance running freebsd and save a lot of time, money, and hassle and not have any impact on performance
02:56:57 <GoSox> new hardware is definitely the way to go
02:57:12 <ivy> fink: but then you'd be depenant on the clowd
02:57:30 <GoSox> yeah, i like doing my own thing. i bitched and moaned when SSL became a requirement
02:57:42 <GoSox> letsencrypt has a bad day and all my sites can be down :(
02:57:50 <fink> doing your own thing? you mean like relying on someone else for power, cooling, routing, security, etc etc etc
02:57:53 <ivy> i still complain about TLS, not to mention DNS, ridiculously authoritarian systems
02:58:34 <GoSox> i bet my data center can supply power and connectivity more reliably than letsencrypt can supply root certificate services
02:59:09 <ivy> root
02:59:15 <ivy> whoops wrong window
03:00:20 <GoSox> anyway I have a 2012 Mac mini on my desk, a leftover machine. I'm going to install freebsd on it and see how well I can make it work. With all the basics i need, apache, php, mariadb, a mail server, file server, some kind of vpn
03:00:37 <GoSox> if that all goes well then i'll repeat with actual rackmount hardware
03:01:13 <GoSox> i'm really looking forward to immunity from SynFlood attacks
03:03:51 <CrtxReavr> Better not use TCP then.
04:46:21 <GoSox> are there multiple package managers on freebsd? if so, is one the primary/main/most popular one?
04:48:14 <TommyC> For the base system, freebsd-update is used. For everything else there's MasterCard. Oops, I mean ports.
04:49:31 <TommyC> Ports has a handful of management utilities (portmaster for example) but pre-built binaries can be installed via pkg(1).
05:35:49 <GoSox> theres still ppc versions of freebsd, hmm maybe i should install it on an old G4 mac mini :D
05:54:54 <sponix2ipfw> GoSox: that would be cool
05:55:31 <GoSox> i think 512 MB of ram is the max on those things though
05:56:54 <sponix2ipfw> I wouldn't expect a GUI web browsing type experinece lol
05:58:44 <GoSox> my grandmother still has a 2005 G4 Mac mini on her desk that she hasn't used in probably 10 years at this point.
05:58:55 <GoSox> its so old though that its not even worth messing around with
05:59:06 <GoSox> i have so many much newer minis literally on this desk with me right now
06:09:48 <GoSox> ok freebsd 14.1 is going on this 2012 mini. i hope it goes nice and smooth
07:15:53 <GoSox> is there a good/easy guide for installing/setting up a good GUI on a clean freebsd install?
07:23:45 <GoSox> looking in to it, i guess a better question is, is there a way i can sample every popular gui you can easily run on freeBSD so I can decide which one I like best :P
07:26:10 <GoSox> there appear to be several GUIs that are "mac like". But honestly, i would prefer a GUI that is more like classic Mac. Mac OS 8. circa 1998. I'd prefer that over a GUI that looks like modern macOS, for a system that is not a mac
10:12:18 <vkarlsen> GoSox: You can install different ones and try them out, just keep in mind that some of them are fairly large
10:45:36 <GoSox> i may have to set up a virtual machine and install them all to take a sampling
10:56:07 <GoSox> so how is it that GhostBSD is on version 24 when freeBSD is only on version 14? What do these numbers actually mean?
10:59:26 <vkarlsen> It's version 24 of GhostBSD, which in turn is built on FreeBSD 14 stable
11:00:14 <GoSox> so is ghostbsd just always the freebsd version it's based on, plus 10?
11:00:56 <vkarlsen> No
11:01:34 <vkarlsen> It just happens to be +10 right now because of how the releases landed in time
13:23:24 <wettoast> info
13:23:47 <TommyC> we use man pages here
13:26:40 <wettoast> sstill working on them tho
13:26:43 <wettoast> [mike@fbsd15 ~]$ man woman
13:26:45 <wettoast> No manual entry for "woman"
13:29:27 <dandyn> :]
13:29:37 <dandyn> GhostBSD seems nice
13:31:06 <wettoast> meh
13:31:20 <wettoast> aptly named tho
13:31:37 <dandyn> there's so many dists of unix/linux
13:32:42 <wettoast> Linux yes, nno bsd distrtos
13:32:44 <dandyn> how to choose :D
13:33:12 <wettoast> there is one FreeBSD, the other few are forks
13:33:27 <dandyn> I mean, why should one use bsd as base for desktop? bsd/unix is said to be more for server purpose
13:33:37 <dandyn> fbsd*
13:33:50 <wettoast> you probably should not unless youre a fbsd nerd
13:33:55 <dandyn> okok
13:34:21 <wettoast> if i wasnt a masochist, id used Fedora for destop
13:35:04 <dandyn> and why would you use fedora instead of debian or ubuntu?
13:35:16 <wettoast> but fbsd, even on desktrop, still retains that nice sense of order and "properness"
13:35:31 <dandyn> is it because of the base system or the environment you do your selection?
13:35:49 <wettoast> i like ithat its very up to date, and uses KDE.... and it just works for me
13:36:12 <dandyn> okok
13:36:28 <wettoast> well, KDE6 now, which thinkgs like candy like HDR support
13:36:47 <dandyn> so it's a hardware support matter mostly when choosing?
13:37:02 <wettoast> seems not as bloaty as Canonical too
13:37:12 <dandyn> and "up to date" is important too ofc-.
13:37:33 <wettoast> dnf works... no flatpaks/fotm pkg repo for me...
13:37:51 <dandyn> I honeslty don't know so muc about the other systems/dists, that's why I'm asking :)
13:37:58 <wettoast> 41 just came out
13:37:59 <dandyn> okok
13:38:22 <dandyn> I try to understand how ppl think when choosing.
13:38:37 <dandyn> or if it's like choosing an icecream
13:38:38 <wettoast> https://news.itsfoss.com/fedora-41/
13:39:04 <wettoast> kind of... a mix of flavour/functionality
13:39:24 <wettoast> for servers stuff tho, i always lean towards fbsd whenever i can
13:39:32 <dandyn> same here ^^
13:40:20 <dandyn> guess I'd choose it also for desktop.. unless it doean't support something (hardware/other stuff) when desktoping.
13:41:15 <dandyn> seems fbsd is pretty much up to date and in line with the current hardware nowdays?
13:41:19 <wettoast>  usuually wifi is a pita
13:41:21 <wettoast> reswt is ok
13:41:38 <wettoast> both amd/nvidia make  drivers
13:41:58 <dandyn> I really don't run the latest hardware tho, so I don't know.
13:42:04 <wettoast> and kde works well, some of the WMs have a bit of Linuxism in them tho
13:42:28 <dandyn> But stuff works without hassle with my stuff tho, and it's kind of new.
13:42:33 <wettoast> bsd + xfce4
13:42:39 <wettoast> very lightweight
13:42:57 <wettoast> even kde5 is not bad
13:43:09 <dandyn> ah, I don't know which desktop handler i'd choose.. but what's coming with ghost looks good :)
13:43:17 <dandyn> clean and simple
13:43:37 <dandyn> kde is one of your favourites?
13:43:57 <dandyn> ah
13:45:11 <dandyn> in october 2025 win10 will loose it's possibility to do updates via microsoft. So guess I'll try a unix/linux dist then. Or buy new HW and win 11 :D
13:54:07 <wettoast> for me? yes, i love KDE
13:54:21 <wettoast> very functional, very configurable, looks great, fast....
13:54:54 <wettoast> GNOME looks like a Mac to me
13:55:03 <wettoast> somethinbg id buy my grandma
13:58:35 <TommyC> Old people already have plenty of gnomes in their front yard from my experience.
14:01:39 <wettoast> lol @ TommyC
14:01:59 <wettoast> dandyn: that does it for me https://paste.pics/SEWKB
14:04:37 <wettoast> also, i trust ZFS just as much as my 3 GSDs
14:07:32 <wettoast> wooo.. its snowing outside....
14:26:32 <wettoast> am i the only one that misses mergemaster -iFU?
15:39:26 <wettoast> anyone on who has control of our Discord server? Having a hard time finding a mod.
15:52:15 <cybercrypto> Hi.   I got this error message during 14.1 p6 install.
15:52:33 <cybercrypto> Scanning /usr/share/certs/trusted for certificates...
15:52:42 <cybercrypto> pwd_mkdb: corrupted entry
15:52:52 <cybercrypto> pwd_mkdb: //etc/master.passwd: Inappropriate file type or format done.
15:53:43 <cybercrypto> Apparently p6 installation went ok and it is properly working. Just wondering why, about this mkdb messages.
17:06:18 <sponix2ipfw> cybercrypto: did you edit that file by hand or something?
17:36:12 <yuripv> or bad merging during update
17:39:45 <cybercrypto> sponix2ipfw: not really.
17:42:33 <cybercrypto> sponix2ipfw: uname -a return running p5 patch now.    and fetch says = No updates needed to update system to 14.1-RELEASE-p6.
19:09:25 <sponix2ipfw> cybercrypto: Yeah, that is normal for the kernel to say p5 and the userland to say p6 - I have that right now also
19:09:48 <sponix2ipfw> Think it is because their was only a userland patch needed and the kernel way fine, so they left it at p5
19:10:00 <sponix2ipfw> FreeBSD freebsd 14.1-RELEASE-p5 FreeBSD 14.1-RELEASE-p5 GENERIC amd64
19:15:57 <cybercrypto> sponix2ipfw: many thanks.
19:16:28 <sponix2ipfw> cybercrypto: not a problem. I'm NEW to FreeBSD, but been doing Linux forever
22:56:12 <uskerine> if you have 70000 files in a folder, for i in * does not work because *'s expansion is too large. How do you iterate in that case?
22:56:55 <jgh> find -exec  (or exec0)
22:57:48 <GoSox> so it GhostBSD a "different" OS than freeBSD, or is it literally freeBSD with a GUI preinstalled and preconfigured?
23:04:10 <uskerine> find . -exec echo {} +
23:04:22 <uskerine> why the output appears without "\n" ?
23:33:20 <sponix2ipfw> GoSox: it does a bit more than just that. but that is the basics
23:33:42 <sponix2ipfw> I haven't gotten to vm the latest one, prior release would not run qbittorrent for me for some reason