00:24:32 this terminal seems to have an option for "current loop" serial... 00:24:44 does that mean i can use a RS-422 serial adapter? 00:24:59 RS-422 is a current loop after all 00:33:36 topc what do you men actual xterm? like a physical device? 00:58:03 johnjaye, Years ago an X Terminal was a display and keyboard but instead of having a full computer it was a graphical terminal which would login into another computer using XDMCP protocol (the equiv to a serial protocol for a serial terminal). They were less expensive than a full computer system. 00:58:10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_terminal 00:58:38 X still fully supports this combination. 00:59:06 yeah but that's a general terminal 00:59:18 i didn't think an xterm was a literal type of terminal specific to X11 00:59:43 if i understand you right 01:02:01 That wiki page and image was not of a "general terminal" like it was a VT100 or anything. It was a graphical X Terminal. Which is specific to X and XDMCP. 01:02:45 If a VT100 uses a serial protocol to connect to a server then an X Terminal uses XDMCP protocol over the network to connect to an X server on another system. 01:03:39 And an XTerm is a program which emulates a VT100 serial terminal. Which is why we describe xterm (and all of the others) as a terminal emulator. 01:06:31 You are right that an X Terminal is a general use terminal because it is just a graphical terminal. But they were never that popular. Rather rare. And today you might see 50 serial terminal museum pieces like hjf's one before seeing an X Terminal. Rarely seen anywhere even when they were new. 01:15:54 rwp: so this worked. i painstakingly remapped all keys to known ansi sequences and changed the termcap 01:16:06 it's not ideal but it's something, lol 01:17:21 the only problem with this approach is that it only works for caps lock off 01:18:00 i've been reading about this and esc [ O D is related to application keypad mode. at least that's what chatgpt suggests 01:46:13 hjf, There is an old adage. "If it is stupid but it works then it is not stupid." 01:48:51 so almost every day I type in 'freebsd-update fetch;freebsd-update install;pkg update;pkg upgrade' and if it completes fine, that's good... if not I interact at whatever step and maybe redo. The problem is, it only autocompletes for 'freebsd-update fetch' then after the semicolon won't autocomplete the rest... is there any shell syntax/setting/replacement I can get autocompletion for the rest 01:56:08 fstty rows 24 01:56:24 gah 01:56:31 it refuses to work in 25 line mode 02:00:40 darwin: that's dependent on your shell's completion features and/or files 02:01:24 it's just root default 02:03:27 ok it seems to have one more bug left. for some reason the words in the last line repea words in the last line repea words in the last line repeat 02:03:39 no idea what could be causing that 02:04:46 darwin: Then it should be handled (or as it seems in your case, not handled) by csh's completion features. 02:05:13 https://i.imgur.com/G4NE1vK.jpeg 02:05:29 https://i.imgur.com/G4NE1vK.jpeg 02:06:10 hm that extraneous S at the end of my link appeared when i pasted the link on the desktop machine 02:06:38 when i detached screen on the terminal, it pasted without noise 03:14:54 hjf: Do you want us to look at the image or is this about the extraneous 'S'? 03:23:55 hjf: nice 07:47:25 rwp that is a fine piece of museum! I wish I could have one of those, alghouth the 80x25 is pretty limiting 07:48:00 rwp hjf that is a fine piece of museum! I wish I could have one of those, alghouth the 80x25 is pretty limiting 07:49:38 There is this bug for the r commands: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/rcp-issue-using-legacy-bsdrcmds-r-commands-package.95211/#post-674511 which if Iunderstood correctly affects to the base system. How do you submit a bug? Is it realistic to think that someone would fix it? 08:37:04 is there any way to get mysql 5.7 on 13.3 or even 14.1 ? 08:40:22 you can try to build it 08:41:41 but it's DEPRECATED: Upstream support ended in October 2019 08:43:22 so there isn't a package anywhere for 5.7.44 ? 08:43:56 if package exists, it will depend on other packages which are outdated/nonexistent 08:44:10 but you can try to build it 08:44:17 https://www.freshports.org/databases/mysql57-server/ 08:48:25 it's ok to move forward with the times but there should be a long term pkg repository somewhere 08:48:41 rigth now I have an older server running 5.6 and I can't move directly to 8.0 08:49:00 blame FreeBSD's great stability for running so well it didn't need an update in so long 09:07:07 I agree with you last1, packages shall be stored forever so you are allowed to stay in one version. If it is not broken, why move forward 09:12:08 133 GiB for current snapshot of packages is required 09:14:01 maybe you can find 5.7.44 on some outdated mirrors, but installing it will not probably solve the problem, a lot of dependencies were updated in the meantime 09:56:41 I located mysql server 5.7.38 pkg 09:56:50 installed all current dependencies for 13.4 09:57:01 and just did pkg add and it worked without a hitch 10:16:56 cool 10:56:21 if there's any C++ people who can help with this https://github.com/berthubert/simplomon/issues/16 I'd love to get it into ports but I can't figure out what needs to change 12:05:58 <|cos|> dch: I'm not much of a C++ person, but get confused prior to that point when reading issue 16. Are you able to build that 1875ec4 commit which is mentioned? Does the following commit fail? 12:09:57 |cos|: it fails after this point 13:09:50 hi folks, just to let you know that in Proxmox VE, the GUI interphase the mice will not work 13:10:06 other than that, its all cool, hence do not install DE 13:10:50 I can't think of any reason to do it in the first place, so... :°) 13:13:06 yes I will utilize a hard disk 13:15:02 Have any of you used ZFSnap? 13:19:03 * Alver has not 13:55:30 What is all this nonsense?: releng/13.4-n258260-bc3877972eb 13:59:29 you're going to have to be more specific 14:00:12 FreeBSD shodan.trioptimum.com 13.4-RELEASE-p1 FreeBSD 13.4-RELEASE-p1 releng/13.4-n258260-bc3877972eb SHODAN amd64 14:00:26 My 'uname -a' output. 14:00:39 right, so you're trying to understand the composition of the version string? 14:00:54 Pretty sure it didn't used to have thatbit after 'releng' 14:01:32 hmm, good point 14:01:47 my 14.1 build doesn't, I wonder why we changed it 14:02:09 you mean the n258 part? 14:02:11 that's more like the stable/main format 14:02:40 https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/freebsd-version-uname-point-release.85926/ 14:02:43 The part I first pasted. 14:03:30 Version strings like '13.4-RELEASE-p1' I'm very used to. 14:28:47 CrtxReavr: it tells you what commit was used to build this, bc3877972eb in this case 14:29:51 What's n258260 then? 14:33:21 * CrtxReavr feels wounded by the term "epoch time." 14:33:46 CrtxReavr: the first bit is the git branch, the middle bit IIRC monotonically increasing commit #, the last bit the commit built from 14:33:57 in case I'm getting it wrong look in cgit.freebsd.org/src/tree/sys/conf/newvers.sh 14:34:04 some of this is added to help with reproducible builds 14:34:21 some of it was added to appease people who are used to svn and afraid of git 14:34:29 Makes sense. . . things can get wacky with git. 14:35:11 I gotta say though, I do miss the convenience of 'sudo svnup release' 14:36:15 git pull --ff-only upstream/main is hardly more complicated 14:36:20 aah I "misspoke" 14:36:43 --ff-only? 14:37:18 dch, the annoyance is in setting up what upstream/main means for the system you're on. 14:37:26 n258... is count of git commits since the first parent (like a tag or something I think) via `git rev-list --first-parent --count HEAD` 14:37:54 ff-only means "don't rebase, just fast-forward from here to there" 14:37:59 avoids weird merging 14:40:52 CrtxReavr: I see. then you might want `net/gitup` instead https://man.freebsd.org/gitup 14:41:32 you'd still need to modify the gitup.conf file, but its pretty straightforward 14:41:39 much simpler than dealing with git 14:43:32 This VPS I'm on was deployed as v7 (I think). . . it has 40GB of disk. 14:44:13 It's getting harder and harder to maintian with as FreeBSD has aged over the years, as far as disk space constaints. 14:45:34 dch: should be since the root, and --first-parent means we don't get lost down merged in branches 14:46:03 it's the solution to hashes being useless to tell if your current build contains some EN/SA 14:46:10 16G /usr/obj 14:46:25 That sure doesn't help. 14:48:28 203M /var/db/pkg 14:48:28 198M /var/db/portsnap 14:48:35 Nor does that. 14:55:35 ouch its been so long since I used ufs that I have forgotten the pain of partition constraints 14:55:48 40G of disk back then must have been massive 14:56:35 I wouldn't say massive. . . 14:57:10 I remember needing to get exec signoff to buy 9 3GiB disks 14:57:12 I tempered it for the ask of the VPS. . . ie a place to IRC from, play DNS server, and do a little low-volume web hosting. 14:57:22 s/ask/task 14:57:56 today has gone into figuring out that linux & freebsd behave differently when assigning broadcast addresses over dhcp 14:58:07 I will now go and find a beer to drown my sorrows 14:58:13 I remember first time I used a hard drive, vs. shuffling floppies. . . 14:58:30 a 20MB HD on a Tandy 1000 8088. 14:58:36 those 8" floppies were so cooooool 14:58:52 The HD's seek time was actually slower than floppies. 14:59:01 Still beat shuffling floppies though. 15:00:11 First PC I bought for myself was a PackardBell 16MHz 386sx with 1 MB of RAM and a 42MB hd. 15:00:38 I upgraded it to 2 MB of RAM. . . never ran out of disk space. 15:01:35 Then I upgraded to a Gateway 2000 486dx2/66 with 8MB of RAM and a 340MB HD. 15:02:04 I later added another 8MB of ram and another 540MB HD. 15:02:26 <|cos|> CrtxReavr: With a Turbo-button, presumably? 15:04:13 Yes, though apart from monkeying with it a bit when I first got it, I never used it. 15:05:00 There was a program that let you specify a percentage your CPU to allocate to programs. . . which I used for a handful of games that ran too fast on it. 15:05:56 Actually, I eventually upgraded that computer to 40MB of RAM and added a 2.5GB HD. 15:06:18 curious, do any of you build all the ports with poudriere? just wondering how long that takes. my ports list results in 776 builds, and that's around 18 hours to complete. 15:06:28 I should also say, that PC had a 'VESA Local Bus' which was way supperior to early PCI. 15:06:46 markmcb, arey ou passing -jX to your build? 15:07:04 yeah -j4 i believe 15:07:14 How many physical cores? 15:07:33 8 15:07:42 Do -j12 then. 15:07:58 Unless you really need a big chunk of CPU for other tasks during the build. 15:08:22 it's rust, firefox, and llvm that make up most of the time. other things are quite quick to build 15:08:36 I find 1.5 X cores is a pretty good sweet-spot for build time optimization. 15:08:50 do you build everything? 15:08:59 I used to. . . 15:09:32 Now I mostly use packages 'cept for things I need to customize. 15:10:14 I've been thinking of trying building everything now that "PKG_NO_VERSION_FOR_DEPS=yes" is a thing. 15:10:29 YOu also gotta realize, for the longest time, binaries were built for i386 and if you had anything more than that, you wanted to rebuild to take best advantage of your hardware. 15:10:33 Not as critical these days. 15:11:11 * CrtxReavr has been using FreeBSD since v3.0. 15:11:32 I build my own because I get updates faster than on "latest" 15:14:15 though now that i say that, i should watch it again. because maybe the official pkg build pipeline is less clogged with PKG_NO_VERSION_FOR_DEPS=yes 15:40:36 interestingly there is no such directory called /home hehehe 15:40:56 how i declare some storage partition during installation 15:41:12 By default, that becomes a symlink to /usr/home/ - which is savagely disgusting. 15:41:39 I'm actually quite disgusted that FreeBSD has defaulted to the "big giant /" 15:42:43 For so many years, I used to just hit 'a' for auto partitioning/slicing, then make few tweaks, depending on the available space and task of the box. 16:01:07 hi guys, i'm having a problem with a text terminal. it does this: https://i.imgur.com/G4NE1vK.jpeg (see last few lines). i'm not sure what could be causing the issue, if a bad serial port, a bad termcap, lack of xon/xoff, incorrect communications parameters (parity etc) ...? 16:11:08 its hard work with installation, i was successful and then i was not 16:11:18 but i guess it worth the efforts 16:13:24 hjf: that could just be an issue with irssi, maybe it's making assumptions about your (custom) termcap entries 16:13:40 do you get the same kind of behavoir when you read a manpage or use an editor ? 16:14:08 s/behavoir/behaviour/ sorry about that 16:19:47 there's also this extra backquote character: "`hjf> no idea what coule be`hjf> no idea [...]", not sure what's going on there 16:22:57 doesn't seem to happen here: https://i.imgur.com/eZqPwuw.jpeg 16:23:07 nice vintage terminal btw :) 16:25:14 hjf, It might be too much work but I might approach it by writing a diagnostic program which exercised the terminal's escape sequences and tested the behaviors. 16:25:18 I will ask here before I mail the mailing list, I have brought it up before but nobody else reproduced it, if anyone here uses wireguard, does your tunnel break after a network change, aka ifconfig wlan0 down; ifconfig wlan0 up would cause your tunnel to break until service wireguard restart, just me? 16:26:23 hjf, Because right now you have irssi and a screen which is not correct. But don't know why. And it is going to be hard to debug. But if you had a test program which exercised each thing individually then you might be able to figure it out. Move the cursor around the screen. Scroll sections of it. Clear sections of it. That type of thing. 16:27:23 polarian, What network device is wireguard using? If it is wlan0 then I think it expected that taking the device down would cause wireguard to error out. 16:28:38 hjf: maybe script can help. Maybe try something like script -c irssi, then /quit, and try to make sense of the typesecript file 16:29:01 if you get duplicated strings in there, that's probably an irssi thing, otherwise it's likely a termcap issue 16:29:41 rwp: I am confused what you mean by that... wireguard changes the default route so all packets go through it instead of any other interface (unless another explicit route is added) 16:33:10 I am confused by why this is a confusing question. Bringing an interface down almost always creates an error for all other things bound on it. But I have not so far yet set up wireguard myself so I don't know how it is operating. 16:39:19 Hello , I try git pull -C /usr/src like in handbook but is not work , I make # git clone --branch releng/13.2 https://git.FreeBSD.org/src.git /usr/src 16:40:33 Oh mistake releng/14.1 16:41:55 /usr/src #git pull -C /usr/src not work 16:43:04 # git -C /usr/src pull 16:43:40 Or just cd to /usr/src and run 'git pull' 16:44:03 ek thanks it work 16:59:44 rwp: wireguard isn't bound to it 17:00:18 wireguard is its own interface 17:00:43 the routing table passes packets through the table 17:00:49 s/table/interface/ 17:00:52 the default route is via wg0 17:01:14 when it is brought down, the default path is unavailable, packets are dropped 17:02:24 but its weird, if I start a ping, it works, I drop wlan0 so no packets go through, I then bring wlan0 back up and then a few packets make it through wg0 and then nothing, wg0 needs to be destroyed and created again 17:06:23 polarian: some routes get lost in the process 17:06:50 if you recreate them, you will no need to destroy wg0 17:07:10 s/no/no longer 17:09:52 mzar: ah I didn't think about that... but the routes are in relation to wg0 not wlan0 17:10:32 so dropping wlan0 shouldn't cause issues 17:10:51 I will investigate the routing table though, see if it is an issue there 17:21:07 oprs: well there is another layer, it's running inside screen too 17:21:20 rwp: ^^^ 17:22:12 but, when i run nano, it does something weird too. the last few chars of the bottom menu repeat in the editor area 17:22:25 so i don't think it's particularly either an irssi or a screen issue 17:22:37 as it happens in "bare" nano 17:24:08 as for it not happening in my previous screenshot, it's because i was using a different termcap for that one 17:24:53 or iirc, when i took that photo, i was actually connected to linux and ssh'd into freebsd 17:25:10 i'm now connected directly to bsd on a serial line 17:25:30 via USB. i've ordered a pcie-serial card though. but it's gonna take some time to arrive 17:27:12 the termcap i'm using was derived from terminfo 17:27:46 Layers and layers! I am enjoying your adventure getting this working. :-) 17:27:49 infocmp -C vp3a+ 17:27:51 # Reconstructed via infocmp from file: /usr/local/share/terminfo/v/vp3a+ 17:28:11 yeah tried to remove layers but this made it worse, LOL 17:28:15 For serial lately I have been using USB-serial adaptors. A lot more accessible then PCI-e adaptors. 17:28:58 i found an interesting pcie one with a big db25 port, but it's actually an "octopus" cable that splits into 4 DB-9 17:29:21 flashbacks of cisco 2501 as a modem server *** 17:30:34 In addition to serial terminals though a LOT of industrial equipment uses (used?) serial control. Temperature controllers and sensors in ovens. Voltage control of power supplies. A lot of those are serial control and also needed multiple serial ports. 17:31:48 rwp: also if you think this is the weirdest terminal i've set up you're in for a surprise 17:31:49 And also I have in my equipment stash several serial controlled power outlets to turn outlet power on and off. Almost forgot about those. 17:32:41 Back in the day we set up a burn-in oven for life testing parts and all of everything on that system was controlled via serial ports. It worked rock solid. Easy to do and robust. 17:32:52 I look forward to your surprise! :-) 17:32:59 https://imgur.com/fEk0VZY 17:33:44 😎 17:34:17 That's a new one on me. I have never seen one of those before. 17:34:24 it's a commodore 128 17:34:29 notice how, while older than the hardware terminal, it's actualy VT102 and it supports colors 17:36:27 I thought we were looking left at the Phillips terminal. I never used any of the Commodore series. I know they were well loved though. 17:36:34 the c128 is pretty cool too. it Ctrl and Alt 17:36:36 it has* 17:36:51 oh that's just a VGA monitor 17:37:03 i don't have a proper monitor for the C128. too expensive nowadays 17:37:23 the C64 is also being a terminal, connected to a BBS. using PETSCII color 17:37:41 So that's a C128 next to a C64. Gotcha. 17:38:10 commodores were actually amazing for their time honestly 17:38:34 https://i.imgur.com/duxnaAg.jpg 17:38:40 I never touched one. I know nothing about them. 17:38:52 this is GEOS, a graphical OS for them 17:39:11 you'd have to spend several thousand on a Macintosh to get a UI like that back in 1985 17:39:23 but you could have that in a $200 C64 17:40:25 or you could have used X too, and spend $10k in a terminal for it, not counting the microcomputer to run it, lol 17:41:38 anyways, back to my original problem 17:41:47 i think it's a thing with the termcap entry 17:42:12 :..sa=%?%p1%p2%|%p3%|%p4%|%p5%|%p7%|%t\E0%'@'%?%p1%t%{17}%|%;%?%p2%t%' '%|%;%?%p3%t%{16}%|%;%?%p4%t%{2}%|%;%?%p5%t%{1}%|%;%c%?%p7%tD%;\E)%e\E(%;: 17:42:19 what does that even mean 17:44:06 chatgpt suggests it's for setting the video modes 17:44:22 bold, underline, standout, dim, blink, reverse 17:52:27 * CrtxReavr looks accross the room at his SX-64. 17:53:33 Oh, you're talking about 'Migas. 17:59:58 i'm not 19:20:38 exit 21:36:45 offtopic but I just saw a poor guy making a legit question about a ML algorithm in SO and three guys closed it because "it was not software related". 21:38:44 uskerine: who needs SO anymore? chatgpt has all the answers 21:42:43 It is used much less now than before, but still useful here and there. 22:14:21 well, i have no idea what's wrong with this terminal. i tried other termcaps and the error happens in different parts of the screen. i tried reducing the speed to 9600 and it also happens in a different part of th screeen 22:14:46 the weird thing is that it's repeatable. that repeating quirk happens at the same place every time 22:16:00 i was thinking it could be related to comm settings. this terminal is a bit weird. it's always 8 bits, with parity, and 1 stop bit 22:17:16 i read POSIX doesn't have such modes. One way to workaround it is to set the terminal to "mark parity" (parity always 1), and set the host's serial port to 8N2 22:18:05 What baud rate are you running? Is this using hardware handshaking? 22:18:50 Always use hardware handshaking if available. My DEC VT-100 can't run faster than 1200 over it experiences buffer overruns. 22:19:35 s/over/or/ it buffer overruns. And on mine it is only XON/XOFF available only which makes it inconvenient. 22:25:00 19200 yolo 22:25:27 i tried xon xoff but even after enabling it with stty nothing changes 22:26:30 i'll solder a couple more wires and see if cts/rts makes a difference 22:29:11 If you have hardware handshaking available then definitely use it. If the signals are there then add the wires for it. 22:29:38 Otherwise turn the baud rate down to 300 and test at that speed. I can't know but it really feels like that will be the problem. 22:44:03 i would not imagine that crs/rts would make a difference 23:29:27 rtprio, Without hardware handshaking the server end will write characters to the old terminal faster than the terminal's serial port can process them. This will cause buffer overrun. Some characters will be lost. Escape sequences are always closely packed and most likely to be lost. 23:30:55 On the other side of things typing on the terminal will always be slow even for the fastest typist. And current servers usually have 16550 UARTs or better these days with an internal buffer allowing faster character processing. 23:31:57 You will never see a problem going to the server. But old terminals processing characters from the server? Yes. Most definitely. My DEC VT-100's fastest baud rate without hardware handshaking is 1200 and any faster and the screen becomes garbled.