00:03:20 rwp: no 00:05:06 rwp: conscious "management" decision to roll a new quarterly regardless of build failures/missing dependencies and packages available are the result of that quarterly.. even when notified a patch/upgraded package has caused an issue with dependent packages. 00:06:56 Does pkg "latest" improve that situation? I have seen just as many people complaining here running latest too. 00:06:58 rwp: the only safe and sure way to ensure everything you depend on is patched and available is run your own repo... even if you're a home user... *very* bad IMHO.. however i was shunned for calling it out (as were others) so that'll be the last i say of it for another few years. 00:07:59 point of order: "dummy spit"? 00:09:26 https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dummy-spit 00:09:27 It's an idiom. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dummy_spit and https://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/spit+the+dummy.html 00:10:22 We don't call them dummies on this side of the pond. It's not a familiar US idiom. 00:10:55 'pacifier spit' doesn't have the same ring to it :P 00:11:21 Someone having a cow would also be a hard idiom to translate too. 00:11:54 it sure doesn't 00:12:03 hehehhe actually this is a better description of what happened/what i did.. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Spit%20the%20Dummy 00:12:05 ... num num spit? 00:12:38 (and yes I'm Aussie) 00:13:00 ah ic :) 00:13:22 We are a great people separated by a common language. :-) 00:13:26 lol 00:15:43 my dummy spit was that bad i forked freebsd and ran my own version (incompatible with freebsd binaries in the end) on my own systems (across SORBS) .. used it until the 30 June this year when SORBS was shutdown. only thing i never got ported was haskell ... 00:16:24 (was a really dedicated dummy spit) 00:20:32 Michelle: it seems you're not the only one to dummy spit regards to pkg and FreeBSD - i get the impression it (pkgbase in this case) was part of the reason ixsystems started to go linux 00:22:31 in my case, it's like...well...I'm puttng together a userland, but I can't write a kernel x.x 00:22:49 and I'm like, well, what's closest? 00:22:57 entrop, not surprised in the least.. someone wanted it to be more linux package management like.. which is fair enough if done right... but i personally got the impression it was about someone making their mark at the cost of everyone else. 00:24:01 i don't feel like switching to linux is innovative 00:24:07 ^ 00:24:21 and I thought of how Debian had at one point been experimenting with BSD kernels 00:25:37 (I actually ran "Debian GNU/kFreeBSD" on a friend's server for a while as a compromise with him) 00:25:42 i mean, it might be a great way to focus on the problems you really want to solve, because there's a horde of other people working on everything else 00:25:53 Licca, can't you still get debian with the freebsd kernel? 00:26:10 Michelle: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2023/07/msg00176.html 00:26:11 (except for openssl and log4j) 00:26:14 not anymore 00:26:22 they stopped after 2 versions 00:27:23 "kFreeBSD" is basically my second choice as a potential kernel for the project I called "Unitas" 00:27:35 (my first is "kNetBSD") 00:27:59 woop woop 00:32:38 mine was BSDSUniX (aka BSDSUX).. however as it was really only me, and i have a new AI project I'm currently working on ( https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7216240768015851520/ ) i don't know if i'll keep it going, especially as i need to stand up new (public) servers as was using SORBS machines as distribution nodes for the base OS and packages. 00:33:57 I use github for now 00:37:54 i have a soft place in my heart for netbsd 00:38:16 I feel like NetBSD is the most "BSD" of the BSDs, with FreeBSD a very close second 00:38:39 Me too. 00:39:39 grrr, pkg upgrade still wants to remove my media player :( let's see if pkg lock will keep it. /yay, it does :) 00:42:33 so I wanted to make an actual OS around my "Strix" userland project, but I was having trouble writing some elements 00:46:48 the second biggest issue is that although it's not possible for the whole system to have one license (my Strix code uses the FreeBSD/NetBSD license; I use various similar licenses for different projects) I do want to avoid a bunch of different licenses, and even more, I want to avoid "herpetic" licenses 00:47:59 I'd have to prepare a custom build system 00:48:52 the usual issue was that the idea of creating standalone build trees for certain projects and methods of rolling them just led to negative reactions 00:49:03 like "why would you want to build your own clang?" 00:49:19 or "why would you want to have a kNetBSD build tree without the rest of NetBSD?" 00:51:08 but what I was trying to create was distinct from what any BSD is 00:51:31 I just wanted to use a BSD kernel because they're generally close enough and it would save me a lot of work lol 00:53:36 but trying to create even just enough of an environment to cross-compile a basic system from my native OS (lol, Debian) and then start hacking on it in a gradually more native environment, and get it to the point where it starts to resemble a "proper" OS... 00:54:34 blame RMS for gcc cross compile woes 00:54:43 I don't even want to use gcc, lol 00:54:49 I'd prefer to use clang 00:54:57 but I can use gcc if push comes to shove 00:55:10 easy as pie on clang, I haven't checked lately but it's easy as knowing the target triple 00:55:33 about, imo, the only thing RMS did right was convince Keith Bostic to Theseus BSD 00:56:04 anyone knows how I can get pkg to print the .pkg file in the repo path 01:05:32 so my ultimate goal would' be to have a tree where I can use GNU or BSD make to "bootstrap" the base system from outside, or to roll it from inside; which is based somewhat on a BSD but feels more like SVR4; and ultimately runs the CDE 01:06:57 ... and have it be something you made, yes? 01:07:02 as far as I can 01:07:18 like if such a thing magically already existed, *pouf* 01:07:19 100% isn't possible. and I'd be using FreeBSD and/or NetBSD to try to fill holes 01:07:30 well, illumos is prolly the closest thing that does 01:07:44 but the CDDL makes me twitch 01:07:49 that's what i was sort of wondering about 01:08:09 yeah? i have only tldrlegal'd it lately 01:08:28 well, I really wanted something more BSD-licensed 01:08:38 so I started doing it myself and created Strix 01:08:58 that is cool. 01:09:21 the license on my own code is the FreeBSD/NetBSD (afaict it's the same) 2-clause license 01:10:23 so I'm like...well...I'm gonna have to roll a few things myself. I'll prolly replace some of my existing stuff with BSD code. 01:11:00 one might ask, what would I use for /bin/sh... ash - why would I use anything else? 01:11:16 works fine for you, works fine for the NetBSD guys, even works fine for Debian and Ubuntu 01:12:05 no rc or es? :) 01:12:30 es might be something worth making a secondary shell, on the same level as csh 01:12:38 9front is MIT-licensed... 01:12:51 lol certainly doesn't feel like SysV though 01:12:54 I don't want "Plan 9 from Bell Labs", though, I want SVR4 lol 01:14:15 yeah so SVR4... all i'm coming up with when i think of it is numbered init scripts and sysv shared memory. i don't actually know what it feels like 01:14:40 NetBSD seems to be going in that direction 01:14:53 but they're also getting a bit GNUy-chewy too 01:15:12 I also decided that just as original SVR4 put a more or less 4.3BSD "universe" in /usr/ucb, I'd do similar - but with something more modern, i.e., pieces of FreeBSD and NetBSD 01:15:54 yeah k see that's what i remember distantly of solaris - what's this whole other set of binaries doing over here?? 01:16:18 and why, *why* is ping only there and not on my path?? 01:16:31 SunOS 4 was a BSD that had SysV elements, and then AT&T forced SVR4 on them 03:32:29 what issues might I be running into when upgrading from 13.3-RELEASE to 14.1-RELEASE ? My setup is simple, out of the box, with a single jail setup via bastillebsd, let's encrypt certs setup using dehydrated. 03:33:48 asking pre-upgrade, or having a problem? 03:34:32 you could easily get 90% people saying "worked for me", and 10% saying it caused them trouble. It all depends on your setup. Just make backups and go for it 03:51:02 bdrewery: pre-upgrade. I recall that when 14.0-RELEASE came out, there were people talking about certain things not working, etc. 03:52:10 I've been having issues with sslh after upgrading to p5 for 13.3-RELEASE, in which I'm seeing sslh process has died for some reason and the service no longer running. I was considering maybe I bit the bullet and move to 14.1-RELEASE 03:52:28 the only thing that comes to mind is that the step to upgrade the boot code was mentioned in a release note in 13-release somewhere, and i skipped that step, so i needed to do it when upgrading to 14-release.. 03:53:07 the other thing that comes to mind is that the root shell changed, and it needed to be paid attention to in the file merges 03:53:45 I don't recall what I did for upgrading from 12.x to 13.0. I don't think I did anything with boot code. Will have to verify and check. 03:55:47 Thanks scoobybejesus 05:16:54 skered: no, i installed this system this year 05:17:07 maybe in january 05:48:35 managed to pull a 10.3 tree out of Debian's site lol 06:08:21 So strange now. 06:08:42 I tried to connect to my XMPP server with dino 06:08:49 But it doesn't work, though profanity client works 06:09:05 It throws out some "Authentication error" 06:09:26 I'm pretty much sure FreeBSD-related. Because on postmarketOS dino works very well 06:09:49 And pidgin also doesn't authenticate. Only profanity. 06:10:05 Probably something with SSL? or with something else common external. 06:11:23 Should I expect SSL working fine on 13.2? 06:11:27 Or is that too old? 06:11:31 For SSL to work 06:36:34 there's also the potential issue in my concept: it would have to be a full-on fork, I think, even if it's just part of the operating system. just like Debian has to say "kFreeBSD", "kNetBSD", not "FreeBSD" or "NetBSD" 06:37:42 in this case too, uname(3) will have to say something else so that FreeBSD doesn't get blamed for my tweakery ;p 06:38:48 should i expect the computer to reboot normally after freebsd-update? 06:38:52 freebsd-update fetch 06:38:53 and 06:38:57 freebsd-update install 06:39:06 will this override the kernel? 06:39:50 i both did pkg update, pkg upgrade 06:39:55 and the one that i told previosly 07:15:00 What's wrong with my installation? 07:15:12 I upgraded with pkg upgrade 07:15:22 And did freebsd-update, so no there are no upgrades available 07:15:27 But now I can't start sway. 07:16:16 ld-elf.so.1: /usr/local/lib/libepoll-shim.so.0: Undefined symbol "kqueue1@FBSD_1.7" 07:39:36 pkg-static upgrade -f 07:39:43 for what reason this command is? ^ 07:40:21 can or can't the system be upgraded without this? 07:40:24 through freebsd-update 08:11:39 pkg-static upgrade -f will upgrade or reinstall all the packages using statically build pkg(6) 08:11:53 (8) 08:12:13 freebsd-update can update only OS 08:22:39 why would i need this? do I? 08:22:49 that was minor upgrade 08:22:54 but now my zpool is not working 08:23:04 or something. i had to set old kernel 08:23:13 otherwise it didn't even boot 08:25:39 V-T60: did you read the release notes and upgrade the bootloader as described? 08:26:27 I'm reading Chapter 26, but don't understand much... 09:07:44 next big changes you predict to freebsd after pkg base? 09:52:47 does anyone know how to use this on FreeBSD? https://github.com/thesofproject/sof-bin 09:53:17 without that, my speaker wont active 10:07:33 freebsd.org - having trouble accessing it via IPv6 10:13:12 I did freebsd-update rollback and now my computer is not booting at all 10:13:20 full data loss? 10:14:08 writing something like 'module kernel required but not loaded' 10:14:11 rwp: the repo is switched only after the new one is build, but if you use old versions for failed packages you risk to run into inconsitencies with versions (well, iirc for libs pkg has a little bit of protection against that) (what if some dependency changed ABI and only that dependency is updated and the package you want to use is not because it failed to build and you put the old version in the 10:14:13 repo, similar to that problem with icu and prosody V-T60 had recently?) 10:15:13 now my issue is worse... 10:15:29 looks like i totally lost everything from the computer 10:15:53 after freebsd-update i couldn't run sway 10:16:18 but after freebsd-update rollback i can't even run bash 10:16:31 it crashes at the very beginning 10:16:51 writing something like 'module kernel required but not loaded' 10:17:04 i could clarify, if it had any sense 10:17:59 to me it looks like full data loss 10:18:19 i tried single user mod3 10:18:26 i tried single user mode. not booting* 10:19:28 now i have even three kernels... 10:20:51 hm, freebsd-update should have made a boot environment before updating, can you boot that? 10:21:45 boot environment? 10:21:54 before updating? 10:21:59 how is that? 10:22:06 where is that? 10:24:27 with root on zfs, the datasets are created in a way that you can have multiple versions (boot environments), so that you can switch back to an older version in case of problems when updating for example 10:25:01 i saw something about boot environments 10:25:07 but it shows 14.0 10:25:15 what on earth 10:25:40 i have never even installed such version, isn't that so? 10:26:30 what version did you install? what updates did you do? 10:28:51 i am 13.2 user 10:29:21 in could only do minor upgrade 10:29:49 because the program (that is freebsd-update) 10:29:56 only shown me that 10:30:43 it should have been 13.2 something i guess? 10:31:07 but sway didn't work 10:31:10 (hm, for freebsd-update upgrade you have to specify the release with -r, so you would have noticed) 10:31:21 i didn't specify. 10:31:37 but boot environments never appeared for me before 10:31:50 in the menu on boot up 10:32:09 now i see some default that tried booting 10:32:28 and 14.0. but how? i doubt any of them chosen will be working 10:33:09 after sway stopped working i tried to revert 10:33:28 and rebooted. now it is absolutely broken 10:36:31 Oh. I changed to 14.0 10:36:36 And now even gui is working 10:36:50 wait what... 10:36:50 % freebsd-version -k 10:36:51 14.0-CURRENT 10:37:08 what was i actually updating from and to 10:37:18 how and when did you install -CURRENT? 10:37:20 09:11 < V-T60> Should I expect SSL working fine on 13.2? 10:37:31 i don't understand... 10:37:36 during revert somehow? 10:37:47 I was updating 13.2 and reverted back... to 14? 10:37:55 insane. that is nonsense. i don't understand 10:38:30 or wait. 10:38:36 what is that? Fetching metadata signature for 13.2-RELEASE from update2.freebsd.org... done. 10:38:45 Probably I misunderstood. 10:39:20 but how? 14 was -CURRENT until november 2023 10:39:38 Look. 10:39:38 The following files will be added as part of updating to 10:39:39 13.2-RELEASE-p12: 10:39:45 try freebsd-version -kru 10:39:56 How can i upgrade 13.2 to 14? 10:40:11 % freebsd-version -kru 10:40:12 14.0-CURRENT 10:40:12 13.2-RELEASE 10:40:12 13.2-RELEASE 10:40:16 Triple output? 10:40:20 what does it mean? 10:41:13 you have a 14.0-CURRENT kernel, running a 13.2-RELEASE userland with a 13.2-RELEASE userland installed 10:41:42 Before it refused booted 10:41:51 Before it refused to boot* 10:42:05 I don't how that was ended up like this 10:42:12 I don't know how that was ended up like this* 10:43:17 Shouldn't I reinstall everything from scratch to get clean environment? 10:43:26 Or is that easy to arrange logically? 10:43:27 did you do anything with make inside /usr/src? 10:43:43 Oh, could be. I'm using this system so long time ago. 10:43:47 I had some troubles 10:43:51 With kernel modules not working 10:44:03 or something with kernel. that it prevented me from doing what i wanted 10:44:35 I don't remember what exactly. Probably I did something to modules. Probably kernel. It is even possible that nothing worked good for me and I didn't do anything 10:44:41 But I tried something for sure. 10:46:36 ok, first you should do a backup of everything you want to keep from that system, I guess a normal upgrade to 14.1 via freebsd-update should work, you already had problems there 10:46:53 I can move 10:48:07 to HDDs 10:48:13 I already had problems there? 10:48:16 Where? 10:48:19 On 14.1? 10:48:28 I thought that 13.2-something was tried? 10:48:31 then you have to decide if you want to try the freebsd-update route (-> latest -p for 13.2 -> 13.3 -> 14.0 -> 14.1) or just a reinstall to have a clean system 10:48:48 with using freebsd-update 10:49:09 I believe that with freebsd-update it asked me to proceed with going to 13.2-something 10:49:19 but i doubt that it is working 10:49:34 probably i didn't try whether reinstalling packages helps 10:49:39 with that trouble 10:49:44 (sway not booting) 10:49:56 but that was minor upgrade, wasn't that? 10:50:19 so i shouldn't have... 10:50:53 well, 13.2 is eol, so the pkg repo isn't up anymore 10:51:09 oh,okay 10:51:16 probably that's why i couldn't use? 10:51:28 the freebsd-update utility 10:52:41 no, freebsd-update is seperate and afaik it should always be possible to use, no matter how long the release is eol 10:52:56 but probably the packages are incompatible? 10:53:06 that i took with pkg upgrade 10:55:33 you only need base utilities for freebsd-update, ignore pkgs until you are on the release you want (login as root) 11:00:23 login as root? 11:00:35 So should I have upgrade again after reboot? 11:00:42 i could omit this one... 11:00:43 not sure now. 11:04:04 well, a reinstall is probably faster and it gives you a clean system, with freebsd-update you should switch to the latest -p release first and than go thru the releases 11:04:42 The process will require 956 MiB more space. 11:04:43 2 GiB to be downloaded. 11:04:44 Strange. 11:04:54 Didn't I upgrade everything before my manipulations? 11:05:24 how did i revert them... 11:05:33 probably i did freebsd-update before pkg upgrade? 11:06:21 i'll go with reinstall probably 11:06:37 you booted some boot environment, try bectl list what does it say for created for the active one? 11:06:53 that was 14.0 one 11:06:59 that i said non-working 11:07:07 i than tried to change the kernel too 11:07:15 not only environment 11:07:37 (but with previous environment none of the three kernels was able to but the system, though not clear why 3) 11:07:56 % bectl list 11:07:56 BE Active Mountpoint Space Created 11:07:56 14.0-CURRENT_2024-08-17_081749 N / 9.01G 2024-08-17 08:17 11:07:56 default R - 38.7G 2023-06-11 20:47 11:09:01 What is default and why is that so massive? 11:09:15 ok, so it seems that one is the one freebsd-update did before the update 11:10:00 14.0 current? 11:10:06 is my backup? 11:13:40 no, it seems like your system was pretty messed up before you tried the update, a 14.0-CURRENT kernel with a 13.2-RELEASE userland 11:15:13 so moving asap? 11:15:23 otherwise something might go even more wrong? 11:17:05 the space calculation there is a bit strange, as that other boot environment is a clone of default at some point in time its size count to bothand then you had some changes after that 11:19:41 as I already said, I expect that updating to 14.1 via freebsd-update carefully doing the full chain should work and fix your system, but reinstalling is probably faster and definitly has less risk 15:47:59 It seems that V-T60 had installed a 14.0-CURRENT kernel but was still running the 13.2-RELEASE kernel. Hadn't rebooted to it. A "uname -r" would confirm or deny this. 15:48:59 nimaje, A couple of issues about pkg repositories. One is that the build fails and skips packages and then is switched into place. That's when people can no longer install those important packages. But if there are failures and skips then that new repository switch looks more like a failure than an update. 15:50:41 Two is that yes an older program either pkg or self compiled might be broken by the base removal of a shared library or by an ABI breaking change. FreeBSD should but does not protect against ABI changes. I think it should. Other operating systems do protect against breaking ABI changes successfully. I think FreeBSD would be better if it did. 15:50:57 easy as pie on clang, I haven't checked lately but it's easy as knowing the target triple] 15:52:28 my friend's server has a triple of x86_64-portbld-freebsd13.1 15:56:05 well, for required libs, these are recorded in the package metadata somewhere and most of them are named .so. where the so-version should get bumped on ABI changes, so I would hope that pkg had at least some protection against updating a lib, but not its reverse dependencies when that name changes 15:58:11 It's not always bumped though. I don't think there is any plan to ensure that it gets bumped. 15:59:46 I'm not even sure what decides what so-version even is 15:59:58 Maybe this is a variation on it. The problem often occurs with kernel drivers in ports. pkg is compiled against the oldest supported base and so kernel drivers in pkg are compiled against the oldest base kernel. But in point releases the kernel has changed ABI which breaks the previous kernel driver. And then it is months between breakage and pkg ports becoming "fixed". 16:01:19 I experienced that first hand with the radeonkms driver from ports in 13.0, 13.1, 13.2 working perfectly then in 13.3 this was broken. It only became fixed in pkg when the 13.2 base became EOL and the pkg build system moved to the 13.3 base for its build. 16:01:25 that does seem to be one advantage of the Linux philosophy, IMO 16:01:45 where they try to avoid breaking changes to the ABI 16:01:55 Agreed. It's a definite advantage on Debian/Ubuntu for example. 16:02:10 I mean, if you're using *x properly it shouldn't matter, as everything should always be rolled from source, but still, ain't nobody got time for that 16:02:17 But one might argue that the FreeBSD philosophy is to build it from source, as many long timers do, and that also avoids the problem. 16:02:45 you can prolly tell I'm not a FreeBSD "native" lol 16:03:18 (my main OS is actually Debian, to which I'm pretty much platform-agnostic but have mostly used it as a Linux distro) 16:03:24 I am a newcomer here myself! I have been using FreeBSD only since 12. 16:03:48 I've used it on and off. a friend uses it more than I do, and I've got access to all his servers 16:04:23 in fact, I'm currently hijacking one of his FreeBSD servers (with his permission) to do some encoding because my own rig is a bit unstable, especially in the summer 16:05:15 I have been trying to skill myself up with FreeBSD. I can do the basic things no problem but learning curve means it takes some time to get into all of the nooks and crannies of it. 16:06:13 when I was younger, one thing I wanted was a "real" (read: SVR4) Unix box. illumos is prolly as close as a mortal can get to that and it basically _is_ that. but I also became, like, I wanted to see if it could become "more free", though that necessitated the same kind of Theseus job that happened to BSD 16:06:50 so although I had a couple false starts I started writing something I called Strix, figuring I'd do what I could myself, and then use NetBSD and/or FreeBSD to fill in holes 16:07:03 as such, when I started coding, that's also the exact licensing terms I used 16:07:25 so that Strix code and BSD code could more readily be "blended" 16:07:43 now, I'm not that good a programmer. 16:07:54 I know a lot of evil C tricks though 16:09:41 I'm not saying I prefer SysV better than BSD (apart from, say, init(8)) 16:09:58 though no doubt, BSD's init(8) could prolly be kitbashed into a SysV-style one 16:10:05 You were talking about Strix yesterday. Building an entire operating system is a large project. Something similar to base can be managed but when trying to do EVERYTHING it becomes a very large task. 16:10:13 you're not wrong 16:10:37 there's a reason I said the main focus is base, and a lot of the rest would need to be pinched 16:10:45 ...mostly from NetBSD and FreeBSD ;) 16:11:09 I did decide a few things for outside 16:11:48 like, I'd have a full BSD-style userland _available_. (it would be in /usr/ucb, like SVR4, but it would be *modern* BSD, not 4.3) 16:12:26 and I'd prolly offer "traditional" Unix desktops by default - the CDE and OpenLook - but no reason I couldn't offer others (I main MATE) 16:17:26 an example: I have my own implementation of cal(1), but I could either use ncal(1), or a derivative of Reno's cal(1) (placing ncal in /usr/ucb) 16:19:22 the purpose of /usr/ucb was for bug for bug compatibility with ancient scripts on SunOS, not as an alternative userland to Solaris 16:20:08 I see it kinda like /usr/gnu on some OSes 16:21:16 isn't /usr/gnu an exclusively Solaris thing as well? 16:21:30 dunno, I would think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do 16:21:51 basically, "Unitas" is intended to be a spiritual successor to SVR4 16:22:05 but aiming to have the freedom and freeness of BSD 16:22:20 does that mean I have to compromise one side for the other...yeah 16:22:56 SVR4 make was properly horrendous 16:23:16 I think Unitas would frankly need its make system to be bmake 16:23:31 I have no clue what this unitas thing is 16:24:08 I've been mentioning that I've been trying to create a "SVR4-like" system, and filling in holes in the part I *can* write ("Strix") with the BSDs 16:24:30 hence trying to figure out a way to build "kFreeBSD" or "kNetBSD" independently 16:25:38 I came up with the name "Unitas" because I wanted to suggest Unix without running afoul of their trademark. 16:25:45 (it's Latin for "unity") 16:28:06 I tend to see Solaris as the "model" SVR4, prolly because it's the most readily available 16:33:09 so ultimately what I'm trying to achieve 16:33:20 is a "cleaner" SVR4 based on some sort of "kBSD" 16:33:29 and then bring it all up to date 16:33:46 using FreeBSD and NetBSD as a model 16:50:18 hm, the FreeBSD vm I have is 13.1 17:33:25 is there a rule of thumb for how long it takes for a port (available via ports) to be available as a binary via pkg? 17:55:46 b_h, Welcome to the recent topic of the week! We have all been pondering that very question for various packages. Which one are you waiting for? Firefox? VLC? Another one waiting for the x265 dependency? 17:56:27 I still think h.265 is overrated 18:10:22 * jan0sch agrees :-) 18:10:49 I still use h.264, but a lot of my encoding is still of SD material 18:12:25 I've become kinda infamous for my work on Dragon Ball Z a few years back 18:12:50 can anyone here reach the freebsd.org site via ipv6 ? 18:12:53 where I prepared some decent SD encodes but the Japanese audio I included with them was better than almost anyone had ever heard 18:13:47 while I can connect, I have no way to tell if it's via 6 or 4 18:15:02 thanks... Ishut offipv6 in FF and it works ok. I have seen this beforel Wireshark shows a lot of repeating packets 18:17:11 other sites besides freebsd.org have had this problem, something about MTU back then. debian.org still works fine. This is a somewhat recent problem with FBSD, maybe a cloud server doing it. 18:18:08 not that many well known ipv6 services that I can reliably test with 18:18:41 same 18:18:46 I only know... ip6only.me ? 18:19:20 I'll try that, thanks 18:23:30 yep that works fine. the problem may be MTU related to the SSL handshake again for a cloud server. Last time it was someone else I think (not freebsd.org ) 18:50:20 rwp: curl :) 19:05:04 curl... well... "fetch" is in base and always available. (shrug) 19:10:11 ccurl is not necessarily for getting files, but it gives you LOTS of capabilities - I use it for lots of stuff where I want to attach files like "PUT" and naciguessing redirects, etc. 19:10:23 and iirc, it's BSD-style license too? 19:11:15 hm. it's an X-style license with a trademark clause (similar to the one in the 3 and 4-clause BSD license) 19:11:21 MIT license 19:11:50 unless latest changed 19:12:32 that's as of 2020, at least 19:12:34 freshports.org looks like ipv6 19:12:38 the source tree I've got 19:15:28 https://www.freshports.org/ftp/curl but I totally get keeping a working ports tree as-is for as long as you can 19:16:10 yeah fresjports works via ipv6, but not freebsd.org 19:16:27 it's not that I'm allergic to the GPL, per se 19:16:35 but its fanboys put me off lol 19:17:31 The same can be said of the reverse too. It's a shame that the two largest free software communities are at opposition to each other. It leads to a lot of wasted energy. 19:17:36 :P 19:18:37 "you can't do that!" "b—, I'm the G.D. copyright holder, I can do whatever I want with it!" 19:20:27 the funny thing is I don't think we'd HAVE FreeBSD without RMS 19:21:58 rwp: unfortunately, it's used by transmission daemon, so I can't use fetch as a stand-in 19:22:21 right now the daemon crashes with the current curl 8.9.1 package after a torrent is started 19:22:34 rwp it's a philosophy thing. One wants to allow closed source use, the other does not. I try to dual license anything I contribute (whether useful or nit) to cover all bases 19:22:36 it's fixed in ports but I don't want to bulk out my jail to build from ports 19:24:06 you might beable to revert to an earlier package version. not sure where that repo is stored online 19:25:02 you can 'make pakage from ports on the host, too. Make sure /usr/ports/packages exists first 19:25:28 then use pkg to install iit within the jail 19:26:01 er 'make package' I mean 19:27:03 anway YMMV with other hoops needed to make that work properly 19:27:40 I tried reverting to an older package but it was too old to work and I can't find an 8.9.0 arm64 pkg anywhere 19:27:52 er, amd64 19:32:35 forums.freebsd.org is working via ipv6 - just not the handbook docs and main pages I guess. ~2 weeks I think since it started 19:33:07 well need to do work now 19:35:32 random: just polished off a minipizza 19:37:14 * shbrngdo notes firefox-esr buildcholes near the end, had to use MAKE_JOBS_UNSAFE towards the end - I blame RUST! 19:37:27 C, ASM or get out lmao 19:37:39 that's just my personal opinion though 19:38:20 I mostly code in C when not doing server or client side web schtuff 19:39:09 but the C util I wrote that works like a shell command gets used a lot too 19:39:16 ;p 19:39:34 a lot of what I do is stuff where people would be like "why would you ever want to do that?" 19:39:47 ...because I do, got a problem with that? (not you) 19:40:05 Hello shbrngdo 19:40:14 heh yeah. old school coders 19:40:24 still running FreeBSD ? 19:40:26 👵🏻 19:40:49 C ftw 19:41:00 Rust ftL 19:41:04 :) 19:41:26 I actually started a few years ago trying to rewrite DOS ... and then Microsoft and IBM MIT'd MS-DOS/PC DOS 4 19:41:28 mzar - yeah - building ports for somewhat crammed at me update to 14.1 and latest port. Stupid web sites not support old firefox. 19:41:47 obviating most of my work 19:41:48 I am using 2+ year old ports tree 19:42:39 related to that, though, I'd thought of trying to rewrite diff(1) without reliance on either Ancient Unix or GNU... 19:43:01 I might actually be able to, because FC does basically the same thing 19:43:15 working well in VBox VM except mate panel crashes when I start X - not the panel, just everything on it. need it working before I "deploy" 19:43:34 shbrngdo: that's good to hear that you are still active in software world, have a successful build 19:43:38 building packages from ports, to install on 2 systems 19:43:58 ack thankx 19:44:19 last I checked, mwm didn't properly handle dual head which is a pity - I suppose dtwm (i.e., CDE) prolly doesn't either :/ 19:44:21 well 19:44:25 CDE is a bit long in the tooth 19:44:30 but I like it 19:46:43 honestly, I think it'll need a lot of reworking of the code to modernize the guts 20:32:14 Licca: back in the day (circa 2007) someone was trying to recreate SGI's Indigo Magic desktop env on linux and others. Indigo Magic used Motif but was vastly superior to CDE in usability 20:32:32 I don't know it this effort ended up in packages somewhere 20:33:05 (the old nekochan (SGI enthusiast) forums (now defunct) had posts by the dev) 20:36:31 MaXX? 20:36:39 slash, 5dwm 20:38:57 I do have questions about its legitimacy but it would be a potential option. whatever source he released is apparently BSD 20:51:41 https://docs.maxxinteractive.com/ 20:51:45 yeah this 20:53:08 inb4 fsn: "it's a Unix system, I know this" 20:54:10 lol 20:54:19 people thought fsn was Hollywood film magic lol 20:54:25 ...and it was the real deal XD 20:55:57 yep, people stuck in dos or win *.* had no idea, nor did the mac or amiga people 20:56:16 hell, people in Solaris or AIX were prolly comparably blown away 20:58:22 probably yeah, xdm couldn't touch that 20:58:30 NeXT people must have been jealus :P 20:58:32 I used to have an O2 during my uni years. Wrote my thesis on it 20:58:39 s/jealus/jealous 20:58:44 21" SGI CRT 20:58:46 nice 20:59:06 I've got a Indigo2 R10K with SGI 21" CRT too 20:59:29 only Impact Solid gfx though 21:00:08 I am in physics, but this was from our Bio dept whom I helped with their molecular dynamics simulations (because all science is ultimately quantum field theory :)) and they donated that machine to me as thanks 21:00:15 lol 21:00:28 they used to have huge octanes 21:01:06 these days NeXTstep is called "macOS" 21:01:16 unfortunately I no longer have it 21:01:43 Octanes were such a cool arch 21:02:04 I have never seen such a striking computer 21:02:50 looking at an Irix source tree it looks like a System V/BSD hybrid, but not "SVR4" 21:03:08 xfs on even the o2 was jaw droppingly fast 21:03:29 I'm taking early 2000s 21:09:58 yeah XFS has always been bulletproof and fast 21:10:16 so long as the underlying drive held together it worked superbly 21:11:06 Licca: well the kernel had so many performance improvements (multi-cpu, large ram management, 3D and video, etc, NUMA management...) 21:11:24 hybrid SysV4/BSD wasn't unusual in the early 90s 21:12:24 AMIX from Commodore was that for ex 21:12:42 nearly pure SysV4 port but some BSD enhancements 21:12:53 SVR4 itself was a hybrid 21:13:09 brought in lots of issh from 4.3BSD 21:14:01 yep 21:15:03 which kinda informed my roadmap for Unitas: "SVR4" (a BSD-licensed clone) base, but then add in a lot of "BSD" elements, by which I mean FreeBSD and NetBSD instead of 4.3 ;p 21:15:17 but...haven't been able to figure out how to get off the ground yet. 21:42:44 Licca: why go with a 33+ year old unix though? Isn't there a more uptodate version of System V that is open source now? 21:42:53 old SCO/Caldera stuff? 21:43:13 well, yes, there's illumos. 21:43:33 ah yes 21:43:39 my idea was to create an up-to-date "spiritual successor" which is BSD-licensed 21:43:51 well, as far as possible 21:43:56 quite the endeavour 21:44:01 yeah 21:44:11 I started work on a userland, which I called Strix 21:44:19 based roughly on SVR4, and on Posix 21:44:27 but new code. 21:45:03 the idea being, I'd add either kNetBSD or kFreeBSD as its kernel, and the corresponding libc, and clang as the system compiler 21:45:16 and use BSD to fill in some gaps in my skills 21:45:21 for example, /bin/sh would be ash 22:01:13 mate-panel definitelyat the core of a major bug in Mate - https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/mate-panel-multiple-errors-and-crashes-in-24-10/27438 22:01:32 I checked freshports, been there since March 22:02:13 So hpefully this will be "the bug" this time around, and no others 22:49:25 mode #freebsd +p 23:57:21 b_h, curl upgraded: 8.9.0 -> 8.9.1 just recently around Aug 5. Do you still have /var/cache/pkg/curl-8.9.0.pkg available? You would return to it until the problem is fixed.