00:24:55 are there any plans to make syslogd speak tls like OpenBSD's does? 05:02:36 anyone managed to get https://github.com/wireapp/wire-desktop working in freebsd? via deb or appimage or voodoo incantations? 08:38:59 Node.js >= 10, Npm, Git, and npm install --global yarn foobar looks like 08:39:58 Prerequisites 08:41:30 https://github.com/wireapp/wire-desktop/wiki/Troubleshooting 32bit app perhaps.. i686 08:42:02 https://wiki.freebsd.org/Linuxulator perhaps 08:42:06 on fbsd 08:45:31 i see electron30-30.1.1_1 in ports 08:45:56 Build cross-platform desktop apps with JavaScript, HTML, and CSS 08:46:48 yeah its 32bit looking at troubleshooting page apt install g++-multilibs 08:47:58 32-bit binary on a 64-bit system 08:48:41 hi, I have identified a bug introduced between 12.0 and 12.1 release. I'd now like to do a bisection search using VMs. What would be the best way to do this? master branch or releng? and which changeset to start at? 08:54:01 dead jim! Production: 13.2, 13.3, 14.0, 14.1 08:54:09 why even waste the effort 08:54:31 some old error is dead version.. 08:54:55 is the error still in current release? 08:55:41 YUP IT IIIIIIIIS 08:56:42 Qual, rennj: try freebsd-version -kru there are three versions that can be diffrent, the installed kernel, the running kernel and the userland, if some errata doesn't affect the kernel, no need to rebuild it to change some version id, so kernel and userland can be diffrent, and if installed kernel and running kernel are diffrent you should reboot 08:57:50 yeah that's for Qual , nimaje 08:59:50 so it probably got introduced on current and then cherry-picked to 12-stable which later got branched to 12.1-releng, I would try 12-stable branch between when 12.0 and 12.1 got branched off as it likely contains fewer commits, ultramage 09:03:44 ohh yea stable would have continuity across those points, that was what I was looking for (I was going to go with 'main' based on date) 09:08:35 ... I don't know how to tell at what point a branch started, using github's ui 09:11:16 oh I think I found it - the '220 commits ahead of X' page sorts from oldest and seems to start at the branching point 09:31:34 https://wiki.freebsd.org/LinuxApps heh 09:32:14 back in the late 90's freebsd,linux,solaris was more compatible, so far off the rails now. 09:35:07 deimosBSD, just run a bhyve vm 09:36:16 "were more compatible"? 09:36:55 hah less 09:37:03 it's lame 09:37:37 it was a better time and software drift wasn't as bad 09:38:29 i use to compile same stuff across multiple os's that isn't possible today 09:44:58 past 24 years embrace the suck.. 09:45:03 peak 2000 09:45:22 IMHO 09:54:19 back than some stuff were diffrent between systems and now too; if you want to program something for diffrent systems, you have to stick to what is the same between them or add conditionals for those diffrences 09:55:44 back then netscape/firefox i had on all 3 platforms..what you got now? 09:56:08 beos had firefox 09:56:20 so fbsd,solaris,linux,beos same firefox 09:56:29 where we at now? 09:56:49 i dont know what you babbling about same between them 09:56:56 you mean posix perhaps 09:57:43 hp-ux firefox yeah doubt 09:58:08 https://ftp.nluug.nl/os/HPUX/itrc/downloads.html how lame hp-ux is at this point 09:58:22 old ass compiler 09:59:23 i macromedia flash/adobe flash on all platforms..even beos up to 4.0 or so 09:59:53 java write once, run anywhere...seems better at this point 10:00:13 seems like beos is widely diffrent from some posix/x11 system, so firefox probably had a lot of code exclusively so that it could run on beos 10:01:00 firefox-2.0.0.18 10:01:01 everywhere where you have some jvm 10:01:41 firefox for hp-ux, solaris is like firefox-57 10:01:54 dead jim! 10:02:24 esr-57 w00t is worthless 10:05:16 Where there's a will, there's a way. Everything is possible if people are motivated enough. If the devs don't care about platforms like hp-ux or solaris these days, they will not continue to maintain support 10:05:27 software is less compatible today then in the 80's and 90's 10:06:48 run a virtual machine, you got the cpu/ram/disk power 10:07:13 Well, that's because a changing hardware and software landscape requires changing APIs as well, you're not a good engineer if you consider "tradition" to be the primary deciding factor as to how you'll design your system 10:08:12 nothing to do with tradition, pointing out a fact 10:08:29 compiling software across multiple isa's and os's was better 10:08:47 fuck tradition 10:09:35 Well, in order to be able to compile them, you need someone to sit down, implement support, and test it, it's not a magical switch, and it wasn't in the past either, there's a reason autoconf is such a complicated beast 10:10:31 also, in the 80s, when it comes to the home micros, they each had completely incompatible operating systems and everything; from different flavors to basic to completely different GUI OSes 10:10:49 *of basic 10:14:53 Compatibility is arguably much better these days, because we have well defined platforms, and we also have well-defined middle-ware on top of those platforms. And if something is missing for your specific OS, well, time to get your hands dirty and implement the support 10:16:22 the ports tree got its name because it was work porting software to other OSes, those file/ directories probably had more patches in the past than they contain now 11:26:47 they should be reviewed and/or be well documented. there's a patch for php that disables inclusion of libpthread. It was added pre-2000 (original commit not available) when threading was 'new' and broke everything. It is still there because nobody knows what the patches are for anymore. 11:55:47 unrelated, but any idea how to fix 'Type clipboard text' function in hyper-v UI when running a frebsd VM? It does nothing. I assume it's supposed to work even without integration drivers. Could it be some kind of terinal driver issue? 12:03:14 apparently linux users also have had this issue since forever. could not find anything explaining the cause or how to fix it, shame since being able to paste chunks of text would be useful while setting up 12:19:21 /quit 13:27:28 setup seems to be stable enough. i had to do some script magic to set up socat and getty for vt100,and disable the extra colorful zsh script 13:27:41 but i can chat from my c128 now 13:28:16 there are some issues though. i dont think irssi or screen or someone likes to be in such a shortterminal 13:28:44 for some reason irssi's status line is in the wrong place. but hey. yay freebsd 13:32:48 hjf: I made my IRC window with weechat very narrow and it surprisingly worked well (with screen) 13:33:04 but yay for c128 13:33:45 yes its weird 13:34:03 hjf: How do you connect? Serial? 13:34:08 the status line appears at the bottom instead of the previous row 13:34:39 maybe some terminal definition issue 13:34:58 vkarlsen: with a cartridge that connects to ethernet and emulates a modem . atdthost.example.com:1234 opens the socket 13:35:11 hjf: Cool! 13:35:27 theres a cheap cart that does this over wifi too 13:35:54 what is your terminal emulator? 13:36:33 DESTerm 3.02 13:36:56 set to vt102 and i did export TERM=vt102 in the shelltoo 13:36:56 and what is the matchin TERM ? 13:37:01 got it 13:37:37 stty -a reports correct # of rows/columns, if any? 13:39:14 let me check... screen Ctrl-A-f does reflow the screen properly fwiw 13:40:42 but maybe there is off-by-one somewhere or some "hard status line" or whatever 13:41:24 I think I should try your setup in the emulator before I order Mega65 :) 13:41:53 saper: hm says 38400 baud0rows 0cols 13:42:34 this thing has 80 cols and 23 rows 13:43:04 it can have more rows but the monitor ihave doesnt work with the non standard mode c128 outputs 13:45:24 uh-oh, vice didn't buiid for -CURRENT amd64 13:46:04 hjf: so the terminal does not report back the # of rows and columns, not good 13:46:25 but how does it reflow with screen? 13:46:40 no idea :) 13:46:58 I am not a terminfo wizard unfortunately 13:54:55 maybe some custom TERM entry with decterm|co#80:li#23:tc=vt102 would do the trick 14:04:45 Hi, FreeBSD uses OpenPAM. I'm trying to switch GNU Guix from Linux-PAM to OpenPAM. Is the latter missing modules, such as pam_env.so or pam_limits.so? 14:05:50 hjf: does it react to printf "\e[18t" ? this sequence can generate "[" "8" h ";" w "t" back 14:12:25 saper: didnt do anything 14:12:26 buttt 14:12:47 doing "stty rows 23 cols 80" fixed it wooo 14:14:09 wish i could set this without a dot script 14:16:02 hjf: yeah, try a custom /etc/termcap entry like the one above (not tested at all) 14:16:23 then set TERM to "decterm" and it might work. 14:32:01 hjf: sadly, not much seems to happen after DLOAD"DESBOOT",U8 and RUN under x128, black screen :( 14:38:52 saper: run"*" ? 14:39:16 tried adding the termcap and rebuilding the db but it says it's not found 14:49:03 hjf: needed to start in 80 column mode, stupid me 15:38:02 I was going to do a bisection search between 12.0 and 12.1, but... the codebase is f'ed up. completely f'ed up. won't build. not self-hosting yet. multiple blatant programming and makefile mistakes. goddamn. 15:40:27 in hindsight it's now obvious... if people couldn't get a working build then they didn't test their changes, and code review can't catch runtime errors, so of course this environment would result in subtle breakage 15:45:45 I am reading FreeBSD mastery storage + ZFS 15:46:34 So the recommended path to install FreeBSD is not to use the server's RAID card (I bought a Dell R320 for testing, it comes with a H710 raid controller) but to set up the disks individually as RAID0 and then implement the raid using ZFS? 15:48:52 uskerine: as JBOD - just the bunch of disks 15:49:04 do _not_ use an underlying raid0 15:49:20 I have an ancient 3ware controller and it could be switched from RAID to JBOD 15:50:57 saper: so how did it go with the commodore terminal 15:51:27 uskerine: I've heard there are problems with Dell RAID controllers and JBOD, and here is one Internet search hit: https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/jbod-adventures-with-dell-perc-h710p-mini-lsi-2208.22019/post-204927 15:51:37 i had to 3rd-party-firmware patch an LSI a long time ago to make JBOD work 15:52:30 hjf: decterm does not seem to detect Swiftlink provided by vice. I think I have also hit a bug when vice tries to talk to real devices such as /dev/nmdm0A provided by FreeBSD 15:53:42 did you set it to DE00 NMI?thats how i had to set up my cartridge 15:55:34 https://sourceforge.net/p/vice-emu/bugs/1876/ pretty sure there must a bug somewhere since -16385 which looks like some hex address instead of the vice's internal fd number (natural number) 15:56:15 hjf: cool wanted to ask your settings :) I try with userport at @dd00 at 2400bps but that fails with the /dev/nmdm0A problem, will check DE00 15:59:21 does the mega65 emulate a c128? 15:59:55 ooo you can run misterfpga cores in it 16:00:03 hjf: sadly decterm insists on UserPort @dd00 despite me saying "x128 -userport 0" (no device) 16:00:18 cool. i have a proper mister for gaming connected to a crt 16:00:20 hjf: yeah it's basically a very expensive FPGA device 16:00:52 excuse me, I'm not familiar, what is wrong with using hardware raid with freebsd? 16:01:07 800 eur omg 16:01:25 just get a real c128 and a wifi modem for it. 16:01:30 or a rs232 adapter 16:01:58 for 80col output you can use a GBS-8200 cga to vga adapter 16:02:31 ultramage: there is nothing "wrong", but that's not what ZFS likes to use. Sure you can install on it. 16:03:03 real, enterprise hardware raid in a supported configuration is nice 16:03:16 just hot swap the disk,the controller takes care of everything 16:03:42 but just use ufs if you're gonna use that 16:06:03 if using "Enterprise" RAID it's good to have something that has control utility on FreeBSD, to verify the RAID status, the disk status, is it rebuilding the RAID right now and what not 16:06:04 ultramage: use the hardware raid, or use jbod+zfs; but don't put raids over raids. this is the road to data loss unless you know exactly what you are doing 16:06:46 ah okay, zfs 16:08:41 I read about the need to do a custom firware patch on the H710 16:08:46 hjf: no idea how to convince DESTerm "there is nothing at the user port really", do you have RTC? 16:09:09 which I am not happy about it. But it is also my understanding that if you do a RAID0 will the entire disk, it shall work. What is the difference with JBOD? 16:10:20 uskerine: JBOD the whole thing acts just like a controller. you will end up with n disks in fbsd. if you do a raid0 you will end up with one disk in fbsd and any failing disk will be end of your installation 16:10:39 saper: try desterm 2. i read it doesnt try to be as smart and it will use what you tell it to. desterm 3 tries to be too smart 16:11:03 ridcully: why "end of your installation"? 16:11:11 I am asking the same, why the end of your installation 16:11:51 the end of evangelion 16:12:41 I have not read in full the "FreeBSD mastery" booklets, but from what I understood you still can use that raid0 disk in ZFS, partition into GPTs and use those GPTs as providers to implement a RAID in ZFS 16:12:51 I've been using zfs on my Dell T320, happily ignoring the PERF controller for nearly tenyears. 16:13:38 raid0 is borked, once a single disk fails? 16:13:43 mariuss and how is the PERF controller ignored? which PERF controller do you have? 16:13:59 i mean, i never have used it. maybe with more disks the controller can salvage it? 16:14:21 It's in the BIOS/EFI setup 16:14:55 ridcully: no,raid zero (striping) splits the data in equal size chunks 16:15:06 I am listening mariuss, so you can disable the PERF controller and the disks will be still recognised? I can also physically remove the PERF H710, it is a module you can actually remove from the server 16:15:17 Yes. 16:15:30 like data 12345678 will be stored as 1357 in disk 1 and 2468 in disk 2 16:15:39 there is no recovery if one disk dies 16:15:48 I didn't physically remove the controller. 16:15:54 that is what i am assuming 16:17:34 in ZFS what I understood is that the RAID is implemented in software, so theoretically you could use one disk / RAID0 (so technically you are using the hardware RAIDs as providers). Can you partition that into GPTs and then use the GPTs to implement the RAID distributed among several disks with ZFS? 16:19:05 Also, is there any case for servers where it is recommended to use the hardware RAID controller and not using UFS? I have read about the cases for ZFS but I am wondering if it is worth the effort 16:19:14 and using UFS* 16:20:08 uskerine: if you are doing any "hardware"-raid, the OS will see that as single disks. you can partition etc as you like 16:20:29 (or as many disks as you configure in the controller) 16:20:33 ridcully you can or you can not? 16:21:46 because if you can then I see no problem in having one RAID0 per disk taking the entire disk. So you have 6 disks your hardware raid implements 6 raids0, one per disk. 16:21:52 yes, you can 16:21:57 then you partition each disk (raid) and then consume that in ZFS 16:22:19 uskerine: with raid0 if one of the disks fails, it is al ldead 16:22:21 dead 16:22:26 if your controller can do raid0 with single disks each, then this is their way of providing a JBOD 16:22:40 the disk is dead, but you ahve another raid implemented in ZFS that uses two disks 16:23:37 ridcully that is hte workaround I have read about the PERF H710, which seems to be a common "issue" with the Dells (which lack JBOD/pass through without using a firmware downloaded from who knows where) 16:24:14 And does everyone use ZFS? Nobody uses the actual RAID HW controller and UFS ? 16:24:32 i use the raid controller on my r710 16:24:48 rtprio and do you use UFS? 16:24:53 yes 16:25:02 as long as you don't use more than one disk per raid0, that is a workaround. but be _very_ careful to not mess this up. the lowest layer with raid0 is the road to data loss 16:25:13 Can you share the reasons for such setup and not ZFS? 16:25:48 because i didnt want to reflash the firmware for jbod when i set it up 16:25:52 I am interested because everybody in the internet favours ZFS but I read mostly technical features 16:26:03 and mfiutil has nice controls from the host 16:27:01 what I read is that the problem of HW raid is that if one disk fails you need exactly the same disk to recover 16:27:20 yeah, i bought a couple of spares 16:27:24 and have a hotspare 16:27:31 while with ZFS you can just use a disk that hosts a same size GPT 16:27:46 I see 16:28:36 it's only a 3tb volume; if one drive fails and have trouble sourcing a replacement maybe i'll try zfs on it 16:29:56 (it is my bhyve host, so zfs volumes with it would actually be nice) 16:29:56 I plan to do jails on this server, then my understanding is that I shall have (for HW Raid and UFS): two disks for the host, two disks for the jails and two disks for the data (I will have enough data to put it separately) 16:31:08 with ZFS tehcnically you could do several GPT partitions per disk and then do the RAIDs with the GPTs, so you do not need that many disks. You could even have just two and share them. 16:31:39 I am trying to understand the rationale of arranging this 16:32:46 hjf: nice rabbit hole you got me into - I'll try to find my real c64/1541 combo I should have stored somewhere far away 16:35:18 saper: but not with desterm 16:35:39 saper: there are also many commodore bbs out there 16:35:49 one has even a bridge to chatgpt 16:35:54 and hackaday haha 16:36:28 hjf got CMD Turbo 232 detected by 3.0 @DE00, -acia1 command line options was missing 16:37:02 a yes because its not a user port modem 16:41:02 > cu -l /dev/nmdm1B -s 2400 16:41:04 can't open log file /var/log/aculog. 16:41:06 Connected 16:41:08 AT X4 S11=50 S7=50 16:41:10 it is talking to me :):) 16:48:26 sweet 16:48:29 ATZ ? 16:49:44 hjf: now I have wired nmdm1B into /etc/ttys and I get FreeBSD login prompt from my laptop :) 16:50:26 remember to set it to VT100 haha 16:50:50 you also need to go to desterm menu (set up mouse in x128 and right click opens the menu) 16:50:59 then go to files, load emulation, and select vt100 16:51:15 I have vt102 in /etc/ttys but FreeBSD getty does not need proper $TERM 16:51:51 Hi. I have this external disk running FreeBSD default install with zfs-root-encryption. I would like to mount the zfs pool of such disk to acess its contents. I started using geli attach (+ typing password) but zroot pools are identical names and dont allow me to import. 16:51:57 you're probably plain ANSI atm 16:52:07 found only "VT102 DecId" setting 16:52:08 (look at the status bar for desterm at the top, it should say ANSI-23W) 16:52:19 I naver did this before, so I have no clue, other than googling it. 16:52:22 it's under Files. the emulation is a file you load 16:56:10 FreeBSD getty changed to 2400 and does not like 38400 anymore :) 16:57:38 cybercrypto: same GUID as well or just same name? 16:57:49 cybercrypto: what does "zpool import" say with no other parameters 16:58:51 funny how long it takes to display screen splash license screen at 2400 bps 16:59:43 saper: it shows the zroot pool of the disk I want to access. (nda0p4) 17:00:50 saper: I am trying to understand about this syntax: use the form 'zpool import ' to give it a new name 17:01:31 due to the fact it is complaining against the names = cannot import 'zroot': a pool with that name already exists 17:04:43 zpool import zroot newzroot 17:05:35 saper: If I force a zpool import -f (using new name) Am I going to break any data? = Last accessed by myhost and domain (hostid=0) at Sun Jun 21 14:34:42 2023 17:05:59 no, you won't break anything 17:06:00 do not force import, rtprio gave a correct command 17:06:35 the rtprio command does not succeed, and raised the warning I described above. 17:06:38 i think you will have to force in this case 17:07:05 rtprio: correct, it only raises a warning telling me to force import 17:07:23 rtprio: let me check 17:08:15 because as far as the disk you're importing thinks, it's sill a part of `myhost` 17:08:33 rtprio: sounds fair. 17:09:12 rtprio: the import worked and I can access data now. really great. 17:10:00 rtprio and saper, many thanks for the inputs. appreciated. 17:14:52 👍 17:15:42 hjf: now I can say "I can reproduce your problem" :):):) 17:16:20 what worries be is why nmdm(4) stops accepting writes at some point (Input/output error followed by 0 returned from write()) 17:16:26 read side seems to work 17:17:05 hjf: can I save the baud rate somehow on the desterm disk? 17:37:00 saper: you can, apparently, if you use the "dialing directory". but the default is always 2.4k 17:52:13 hjf: /usr/bin/printf 'decterm|vt102 80x23 for DEC Term on C128:co=80:li=23:tc=vt102\n' >> /usr/share/misc/termcap && cap_mkdb /usr/share/misc/termcap 17:52:26 those let me use the "decterm" terminal that has 80x23 17:53:36 this is my /etc/ttys like but you probably do not need it "nmdm1B "/usr/libexec/getty std.38400" decterm on secure" (with tabs in between) 17:55:37 but it works quite nice, thank you for the entertainment :):) 17:56:42 probably you could connect socat to /dev/nmdm1A and then use that ttys(5) like to get FreeBSD login prompt 18:15:40 hjf: 57600 or more bps seems to very slow, the CPU can't handle it? 18:43:39 saper: i've found 38400 is the fastest it can do. not sure why it doesn't go any faster, it supports up to 115200. 18:44:01 if i use 115k it's just as slow as 9.6k 18:50:53 saper: btw: #c64friends 18:51:32 yeah we are very offtopic here, thanks 18:52:25 I just wonder why write(2) fails with Input/Output error after the other side of nmdm(4) has disconnected and reconnected. I can't reproduce this with a simple cu(1) connections. cu has no problem with the other side being temporarily gone. 19:08:16 i mean, there are people far more knowledgeable about commodore than me in that chat hehe 19:09:10 <|cos|> What's the best solution under FreeBSD for the problem Debian solves with update-alternatives(1)? 19:09:33 interestingly the new terminal definition dees not set cols/lines after login, but when the screen starts it takes the term size from there 19:10:29 <|cos|> Specifically, I've just switched the shebang line of a bunch of scripts from `#!/usr/bin/lua` to the unsatisfactory `#!/usr/bin/env lua54`. 19:12:21 <|cos|> As far as I understand neither of lang/lua5{1,2,3,4} provides an executable named lua. Not in /usr/local/bin/ nor elsewhere. 19:12:22 java has javavmwrapper, not sure about lua 19:13:15 |cos|: If you're using the ports framework, there's USES=shebangfix 19:26:55 <|cos|> saper, vkarlsen: Thanks! Your answers covered getting me to understand the options available. 19:28:59 |cos|: HTH 19:51:44 Not sure if this is exactly the right channel for this, but I'm running into an error trying to do a make installworld onto an RPi4, from 13.2 to 14.1, it is telling me "Required library libcrypto.so.30 not found." and I'm not sure how to resolve this one. In my /lib I have libcrypto.so.111. 19:55:44 And just to note, I had to move the /usr/obj/usr/src/arm64.aarch64/tmp directory out of the way because I built my world/kernel on an amd64 machine and it refuses to install the world or kernel on the Pi itself if that directory is there because everything in there is not arm64 executables but amd64 executables. 19:57:38 how did you build the world? 19:59:12 On the amd64 machine, I did `make TARGET_ARCH=aarch64 buildworld buildkernel`, later on the Pi, I have /usr/src and /usr/obj NFS mounted ro from the amd64 machine and after moving that tmp directory, I was able to successfully do `make installkernel` but `make installworld` fails with the above. 19:59:38 the tools at /usr/obj/usr/src/arm64.aarch64/tmp can be used to install on the amd64 using DESTDIR on the storage device of the arm device Ithink 19:59:53 so you need tools built for amr 19:59:55 for arm 20:00:19 Is there some way to force install libcrypto.so.30 and then continue with the installworld from there? 20:01:23 I think you have a deeper problem than just this 20:02:14 This was never a problem before, but I recognize that the OpenSSL library changed between 13 and 14. 20:02:15 can you install on amd64 by attaching arm storage there? 20:02:32 can you post the full log of your installworld somewhere please 20:02:37 like bsd.io 20:03:39 The Pi is an active system, I do not want to shut it down to do this. I want to update like I would any other system. And right now, the full log would just be it starting the "Install check world" step and immediately giving me the error. 20:12:24 There must be the way to install native tools for the Pi, but I don't know the correct make incantation (/usr/src/Makefile lists some possibilities) 20:13:45 I think I got it working. I went into /usr/src/secure/lib/libcrypto and did `make install` in there, and then when I went back to /usr/src, make installworld proceeded just fine. 20:14:29 but I think this should be fixed somehow 20:15:49 It IS fixed, for my case, I was only missing libcrypto.so.30 to be able to finish the world install, it is there now, the world install can proceed. It was only needed because of OpenSSL changing versions from 13 and 14, if that hadn't happened, this wouldn't have been a problem to begin with. 20:17:25 normally FreeBSD can handle similar situations just fine 20:17:34 that's why I think it should be fixed