00:39:05 I can't seem to get firefox working with sndio... I set sndio in about:config as media.cubeb.backend=sndio and restarted firefox, and about:support says the backend is sndio 00:39:13 but yet there is no audio output when I try to play video 00:39:20 chromium which uses sndio by default, works just fine 00:39:22 any ideas? 00:54:01 hm, I use pulseaudio atm 00:59:41 I dont want to handle both sndio and pulseaudio 00:59:50 it seems most things use sndio (plus its more minimalist) 01:00:00 apulse perhaps...i use it on linux.. 01:00:21 im still old alsa/asound..use apulse for pulseaudio stupid 01:00:38 course probably linux specific 01:01:16 PulseAudio emulation for ALSA. yeah...figures 01:01:30 maybe sndiod is needed for firefox to work... 01:03:20 hmm 01:03:35 what I am reading is that firefox is compiled with pulseaudio support and the only way to reliable change it is to recompile the port yourself using the sndio flag 01:04:31 https://wiki.freebsd.org/Sound 01:04:32 Title: Sound - FreeBSD Wiki 01:04:40 oss in the end i think.. 01:05:06 ah I will try oss 01:05:12 Open Sound System used long time ago on solaris also 01:05:31 the problem is I dont want multiple sound systems to worry about 01:05:39 if I set the volume of one 01:05:46 I dont want a different volume for another 01:05:55 plus if I mute one, I dont want another to still be unmuted 01:06:09 imagine being in a lecture using firefox and forgetting to mute pulseaudio because you normally use sndio for everything else... 01:06:10 oss is the "real" interface (/dev/dsp* devices), check /dev/sndstat text file for info on devices, but sndio/pulseaudio use OSS 01:06:12 set it and forget it! --Ron Popeil 01:07:02 polarian: is pulseaudio process running when you start to play audio on firefox? 01:07:10 saper: yes 01:07:23 but I changed the backend from rust-pulse to sndio 01:07:44 oh interesting 01:07:49 setting pulseaudio volume doesn't affect sndio 01:07:59 butttt... setting sndio volume using mixer(5) does affect pulseaudio 01:09:04 I didn't get sndio to run with chrome and firefox so pulseaudio it is now 01:12:48 chromium depends on sndio too 01:13:01 so I have to pull both audio frameworks in order to use firefox and chromium 01:15:07 why i do everything in vmware-vmx, and host os is just for running vm's 01:18:13 freebsd bhyve got nice benchmark results 01:18:25 you virtualise your desktop? 01:18:27 that must be painful 01:18:30 the latency :/ 01:18:38 i game in win10 vm's 01:18:44 this is vm 01:19:02 those pics of amiga where vmware-vmx one of them anyway 01:19:38 how do you game in vms 01:19:43 the latency is so noticable 01:19:47 https://it-notes.dragas.net/2024/06/10/proxmox-vs-freebsd-which-virtualization-host-performs-better/ 01:19:48 Title: Proxmox vs FreeBSD: Which Virtualization Host Performs Better? - IT Notes 01:19:49 no its not 01:20:24 adults actually play video games 01:20:27 thought that was just under 18s 01:20:48 polarian: I got chromium and firefox both to work with pulseaudio, without recompiling 01:20:51 https://imgur.com/L0NdwRO old gaming vm win10 consoles 01:21:20 Rue: those are some olddd games 01:21:24 and thats my old amd 4core/4thread laptop, this 8core/16thread smokes it 01:21:29 saper: what if I want to use sndio not pulseaudio :) 01:21:41 portal 1 and 2 ? 01:21:46 risk of rain1 01:22:35 Guns, Gore & Cannoli is not old 01:23:49 https://imgur.com/1psrhvL 67days 4vm's 2022 01:24:02 and once again old craptop 4core/4thread amd 01:24:15 new laptop 8core/16threads 01:24:41 polarian: feel free to troubleshoot yourself 01:24:56 freebsd bhyve probably could build nice setup.. 01:25:04 saper: the whole reason I was asking about it is that when I set the backend to sndio firefox produces no sound 01:25:21 for pulseaudio, I could give you some working commands to check 01:26:15 it works fine under pulseaudio backend 01:27:27 host os and guest vm's..seperation of things... 01:28:04 jails light weight or go full blown heavy os vm's 01:29:45 baremetal os, juggle jails/vm's. compartmentalize. 01:30:48 compartmentalize - To separate into distinct parts, categories, or compartments. 01:31:56 i have decade old vm's ..my freebsd 5.4 vm is ancient.. 01:32:18 ran on baremetal 333mhz/384MB celeron m @ 1 time 01:32:50 dump/restore into vmware..from baremetal to vmware..back in the day. 01:33:51 I got lost like... 01:33:53 ages ago lol 01:35:26 a future project for you 01:40:33 rennj: SmartOS is a bit like that, designed to run from a read-only USB stick, creating VMs and zones (jails) on ZFS 01:50:12 yes, joyent smartos they got bought 01:50:18 solaris foo 01:50:36 oxide computer 01:50:57 https://oxide.computer/ same people same foo 01:50:58 Title: Oxide Computer Company 01:54:13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmartOS pretty clear 01:54:14 Title: SmartOS - Wikipedia 01:54:20 pkgsrc! 01:57:45 https://blog.brianewell.com/smartos-in-2021/ pretty good read 01:57:47 Title: SmartOS in 2021 01:58:06 but they where bought i know that..wikipedia doesnt have info 01:58:45 On April 11, 2022, Joyent announced that MNX Solutions would be taking over the Triton DataCenter technology suite.[39] 01:58:54 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyent 01:58:55 Title: Joyent - Wikipedia 01:59:49 https://www.tritondatacenter.com/blog/a-new-chapter-begins-for-triton-and-smartos 01:59:50 Title: A New Chapter Begins for Triton and SmartOS | Triton DataCenter 02:00:23 meh, freebsd has same tech 02:00:37 jails, bhyve, zfs 02:01:55 vs linux/kvm/qemu or proxmox distro 02:02:29 promox is just lxc and kvm/qemu... 02:06:08 any idea why pool/ROOT/default boot environment mounts itself over / although pool/ROOT/13.3 is selected (and mounted as / first)? 02:06:30 (13.3 is marked as R with bectl list) 02:07:29 I found smartos very interesting, it is solaris but quite unlike one. all readonly, very small root, not much space to install anything, just launch vms to do _anything_ 02:07:48 (and vm/jail management tools are written in nodejs which is part of the base) 02:08:07 yeah i build usb keychain, load os into ram, remove keychain...i have just enough os to bring up gui/x11/vmware-vmx 02:08:21 current os is 597MB.iso..on keychain 02:08:29 rennj: exactly that's the way 02:08:35 my last os was 350MB.iso 02:08:43 yeah but i was doing it before them 02:08:45 heh 02:09:40 they got fancy foo...virtual switch, san foo 02:09:45 like vmware does 02:09:49 wasn't first vmware esx on a diskette :) 02:09:50 vswitch, vsan 02:10:09 no vmware was vmware on linux,windows,and freebsd 02:10:19 in fact vmware 1,2,3 in ports 02:10:41 and that was before intel/amd added ring -1 vm foo 02:10:47 vt-x and amd svm 02:10:55 let alone iommu/vt-d 02:11:11 like the cpu's didnt have the tech 02:11:25 vmware use to eat the whole cpu..back in the old days 02:11:29 I think even xen needs ept these days 02:45:05 Bo Burnham - Welcome To The Internet 02:46:50 Could I interest you in everything all of the time? A little bit of everything all of the time? 03:01:54 saper, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Level_Address_Translation 03:01:55 Title: Second Level Address Translation - Wikipedia 03:02:43 Extended Page Tables (EPT) is an Intel second-generation x86 virtualization technology for the memory management unit (MMU). 03:07:38 Unix, Linux, OS/2, Windows NT are considered modern OS's as they switch the CPU into protected mode at startup, never return to real mode and provide all of the benefits of protected mode all of the time. 64-bit operating systems use real mode only at startup stage, and the OS kernel will switch the CPU into long mode. 03:12:52 48-bit physical addresses and so can address up to 256 TB of RAM. 03:13:42 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_mode 03:13:43 Title: Long mode - Wikipedia 03:14:10 i know intel did the 5 level tlb lookup 03:14:31 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_lookaside_buffer 03:14:32 Title: Translation lookaside buffer - Wikipedia 03:15:55 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_5-level_paging 03:15:56 Title: Intel 5-level paging - Wikipedia 03:16:21 from 48 bits to 57 bits by adding an additional level to x86-64's multilevel page tables, increasing the addressable virtual memory from 256 TB to 128 PB. The extension was first implemented in the Ice Lake processors 03:21:40 i thought the toor account was removed in 14.x? i see it in pw user show -a 03:21:45 14.1 03:44:14 polyex: no toor is still there in main 03:44:30 really sure i read it was going 03:44:33 https://reviews.freebsd.org/D40565 03:44:35 Title: ⚙ D40565 Remove toor backup account 03:44:54 you can make your own reality by forking freebsd and removing toor 03:44:59 I think at this point if ed wants to rip it out he's going to need to get so@ to declare it a security vulnerability in itself 03:45:02 do not be bound by what you imagine to exist 03:45:09 which there is some precedent for 06:14:56 so /etc/jail.conf glob includes whatever's in /etc/jail.conf.d/*.conf, and those conf files can include big wads of common config between jails! even config using vars and stuff works omg! 06:15:31 before 14.x only /etc/jail.conf would include. the jail.conf.d/*.conf files wouldn't include 07:15:48 the depend directive works in jail configs now too wooooo 08:19:32 hello 08:20:07 anyone had any issues with unifi controller since last update? i cant connect to it and it doesnt log to /var/log/messages 08:20:14 running in a jail 08:20:32 it COULD be something with 14.1 which i just installed but I think its the port upgrade 08:37:01 sopparus, it's likely the upgrade to MongoDB60 08:37:37 ok, do you know where i can see any logs? 08:37:51 ive checked all of /var/log 08:37:52 279029 – net-mgmt/unifi8: switch MongoDB dependency from 5.0 to 6.0 08:38:02 yeah i noticed that too 08:38:02 whops 08:38:10 meant to paste this 08:38:12 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=279029 08:38:14 Title: 279029 – net-mgmt/unifi8: switch MongoDB dependency from 5.0 to 6.0 08:38:40 I don't think it's running properly, because it can't access the db 08:39:06 I rolled back to the earlier version, changed the feature version compat of the db, per that bug report, and then upgraded again 08:39:09 that fixed it for me 08:41:11 ok, so i cant do it on 6.0 directly? 08:41:55 hm i dont have the "mongo" command 08:41:56 unfortunately, I don't know how, but I'm no MongoDB expert 08:42:02 is it part of mongodb-tools perhaps 08:42:16 no.. 08:42:20 also, mongo does not log to /var/log, it logs to /var/db/mongodb/mongod.log 08:43:27 thanks 08:44:55 may I ask what client did you use? 08:45:05 sorry? 08:45:09 for mongodb 08:45:20 I rolled back to mongodb50 08:46:05 but how did you change the feature version compat then? 08:46:43 Okay, so I upgraded unifi, which bumped it from 5.0 to 6.0 08:46:47 realized that it couldn't read the db 08:46:56 removed 6.0 and reinstalled 5.0 08:47:19 The db ran fine under 5.0 08:47:41 so I could bump the feature compat of the db when running 5.0 08:47:57 after that, I could upgrade both unifi and mongodb 08:48:27 got it thanks, but to bump the feature compat one needs to connect to mongo db with a client right? 08:48:40 from that bugs page, mongo --port 27117 08:48:52 yeah, that command ran fine under mongodb50 08:49:00 ah, I see. thanks 08:51:51 👍 08:52:27 yeah I got the command mongo available now, but it looks angry https://dumpinen.com/fXigLWiWCCL :) 08:53:06 So I started up unifi under the old version 08:53:55 yep, ive done that and it works 08:54:04 but cant access mongodb with "mongo" 08:56:33 as root? 08:56:50 yep (in jail) 08:57:10 the client seems to segfault 08:57:37 it states there's a memory lock issue 08:57:40 did you look at https://www.mongodb.com/docs/manual/reference/ulimit/#unix-ulimit-settings 08:57:41 Title: UNIX ulimit Settings - MongoDB Manual v7.0 08:58:10 hm found somethng 09:00:21 yes now it works, allow.mlock; in jail config solved it 09:06:01 yeah all is good now, thanks alot rafe 09:14:57 happy to help 09:17:48 Hello guys, i need some help, is there anyone here who is really good with pf and wireguard? 09:47:03 think i maybe found a bug in 14.1 jails 09:52:59 i have 4 jails. 1 depends on 2. 2 depends on 3. and 4 depends on 3. they all start and run fine if i remove the depend directive, but having it in, jail 2 fails to start because jail 3 is already running 09:53:14 can't depend handle multiple dependents of the same jail? 11:02:18 only way i can let a user in a jail run tcpdump is in /etc/rc.local i chgrp /dev/bpf* and chmod g+r g+w it. problem is daemon running tcpdump is started before rc.local is run. how can i do it better? 11:04:22 didn't i give you the devfs thing for this or was that someone else 11:05:25 polyex: https://www.le-fay.org/tmp/30d/rEejVU.txt 11:06:51 lw ya i tried it but remember the /etc/devfs.conf part doesn't persist changes? 11:06:54 in a jail 11:07:06 only solution to even get it working at all was putting it in /etc/rc.local 11:07:08 idk jails are dark magic 11:11:28 sopparus: the unifi8 mongo upgrade was seamless for me, sorry 11:12:44 polyex: I guess you can try running tcpdump from the host, the interface should be visible there, no? 11:13:15 dch no i need the jail to be isolated from host and not blend the 2 11:13:27 polyex: aah its a vnet one? 11:13:31 ya 11:14:02 and /etc/devfs.conf should be persistent, I use it here all the time. 11:14:09 in the jail? 11:14:23 hmm thats out of my paygrade 11:14:34 so devfs is one of those synthetic filesystem things 11:14:34 i tried it and it didn't work 11:14:49 I would set the permissions on the host /etc/devfs.conf instead 11:14:55 and see what is in the jail on reboot 11:15:10 eg `own bgf* root:network` is a good example 11:15:12 but then it needs to know the user/group info of the jail to set it to 11:16:09 polyex: you can experiment with groups that are always in both, like root, wheel, operator, etc. 11:16:20 but it will probably work with numeric uid/gid anyway 11:19:42 i want more independence of jail from host 11:29:03 at some point a vm is more independent 11:30:17 ya this and 1 other limitation are all ive found in jails/vnet 11:30:44 mac_portacl support in vnet would be great, that's the other limitation 11:43:07 polyex: vnet support firewalling and you can limit user network access this way 11:43:29 i have pf running in the jail. that's why i want the jail user to be able to run tcpdump 11:43:46 oh you were talking mac_portacl 11:44:00 nah that sucks mac_portacl support in vnet would be better imo 11:44:38 hhe.. you have to prepare patch then, to make MAC framework VNET aware 11:49:49 there any way to make a daemon not start until after rc.local has been run? 11:54:50 polyex: sure, take a look at rcorder(8) 12:01:58 what in there talks about it? is there a way to make /etc/rc.local be a REQUIRE condition or smth? 12:08:54 oh it's "local"! 12:34:08 i have 4 jails. A depends on B. B depends on C. and D depends on C. they all start and run fine if i remove the depend directive, but having it in, jail B fails to start because "jail: C already exists". can't depend handle multiple dependants of the same jail? 13:21:51 what's the difference between "sysctl hw.machine_arch" and "sysctl hw.machine" 13:48:11 /usr/src/Makefile says # TARGET="machine" to crossbuild world for a different machine type # TARGET_ARCH= may be required when a TARGET supports multiple endians 13:49:28 KNOWN_ARCHES in /usr/src/Makefile.inc1 lists some values 13:53:13 hmm interesting 13:53:43 saper: although it doesn't fully explain machine=arm64 vs machine_arch=aarch64 i think 14:00:56 aaarch64 could have been named armv8, but AArch64 sees to be the name of the execution mode, so be it 14:01:52 in the Sun days, you'd have sun4c. sun4u, sun4v "machines" and then sparcv7 sparcv8 sparcv9 "cpu architectures" 14:04:39 saper: ah okay. i wonder if this might cause problems when armv9 is out 14:05:08 I wonder who NetBSD does it, I think they simplified to just one name per "port". but this means they have multple "*arm" ones in addition to aarch64 14:05:21 makr: it's out there already and it is AArch64, too :) 14:05:40 --s,who,how, 14:06:03 saper: ah okay :D 14:08:03 makr:if you look at the kernel sources, FreeBSD also introduced "x86" directory name for the code that is common between i386 and amd64. In addition to that, you'll find /sys/amd64/amd64 as well as /sys/amd64/ia32 14:11:22 saper: o_O well that's tricky 14:13:01 it all makes sense, but probably you don't need to worry about it 14:21:35 saper: for sure, interesting stuff though 14:21:43 thanks 14:25:12 I'm trying to understand whether I need the `-A` (generate ACPI tables inside the guest) option for my linux bhyve guest VMs. churchers-vm doesn't seem to use it, but it seems like a good idea? 16:10:01 oh, churchers/vm-bhyve DOES use it it seems! 17:12:29 to spell out the unifi issue, you need to check that the database compatibility has been set to 5.0 before upgrading to 8.2.93 from 8.1.113. with 8.1.113 running with mongodb50, you run `mongo --port 27117` to get the mongo shell. then `db.adminCommand( { getParameter: 1, featureCompatibilityVersion: 1 } )` tells you the current ver compat, then `db.adminCommand( { setFeatureCompatibilityVersion: "5.0" } )` updates you 17:12:45 then you can upgrade to 8.2.93 17:13:37 i had to change my repo from latest to quarterly to revert back to 8.1.113, then go and do the mongo compat work, and then went back to the latest repo and everything was then fine 17:56:47 hi folks 17:57:09 I'm just starting with FreeBSD and I'm happily supprised 17:57:35 the operational flow is like a breath of fresh air 18:18:59 are the real freebsd developers here? 18:21:44 do you think I could use a loaded unbalanced antenna with an extremely high Q in place of a cavity filter? 18:22:24 the cliff of the standing wave ratio should prevent other energies from flowing 18:23:48 sfox: this sounds spiritual 18:24:19 it's physics 18:24:36 close enough 19:11:37 Howdy, folks! 20:03:05 nicholaus04: sup 20:06:53 i have 4 jails. A depends on B. B depends on C. and D depends on C. they all start and run fine if i remove the depend directive, but having it in, jail B fails to start because "jail: C already exists". can't depend handle multiple dependants of the same jail? 20:15:27 kenrap: Nothing much. 20:16:32 nicholaus04: cool, enjoy your stay 20:18:39 part 20:51:25 anyone know? 21:01:16 sounds like it will handle only the first case. you could always make D depend on A 21:12:38 nah that's garbage i just figured it out. i only had to remove jail_list from my rc.conf and NOW IT WORKS LETS GOOOO 21:13:09 often the best way to get an answer on the internet is to say the wrong thing and let people correct you 21:13:13 man jail config has been so upgraded in 14.x tyvm freebsd team! 21:54:30 now we just need jails to support /etc/devfs.conf and mac_portacl in vnet and they're perfect 22:54:17 there any way to start a jail and make it ignore its depend directive? i wanna be able to have dep info for rc startup, but still be able to somehow start a jail independently, check stuff, then shut it back down 23:27:58 ? 23:28:13 i just wanna start a jail and have its depend directive ignored 23:28:20 there a flag or smth for it? 23:29:06 onestart? 23:29:23 still enforces depend 23:34:00 1 23:34:11 ?