01:59:37 <GoSox> its ports the package manager?
01:59:49 <GoSox> is there a website somehwere where i can check out everything thats on there?
01:59:57 <GoSox> i don't actually have a freebsd machine at the moment
02:10:45 <pabs3> GoSox: looks like there is a search here https://ports.freebsd.org/cgi/ports.cgi
02:10:46 <VimDiesel> Title: FreeBSD Ports Search
02:11:18 <pabs3> some more info on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD_Ports
02:11:19 <VimDiesel> Title: FreeBSD Ports - Wikipedia
02:11:21 <GoSox> welp, looks like im switching from launchd to cron :P
02:12:15 <pabs3> looks like https://www.freshports.org/ has pages for each port https://www.freshports.org/x11-wm/cosmic-comp/?branch=2024Q2
02:12:16 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- The Place For Ports - Most recent commits
04:49:03 <luna_> early German Canada BSDCan edition of BSD Now today: https://www.bsdnow.tv/562
04:49:04 <VimDiesel> Title: BSD Now 562: All by myself
04:53:26 * luna_ is listening atm
06:40:37 <tercaL> Is it okay to regularly do pkg check?
06:58:13 <remiliascarlet> No, you might end up in prison for doing pkg check regularly.
07:01:23 <GoSox> so i don't have much experience with non-gui-based OSes, anyone know of a good guide for begginners to get freebsd installed and running, with some GUI of some kind so I can at least get it to a state that *I* can use it and then start messing around?
07:02:27 <remiliascarlet> The best guide for FreeBSD: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/
07:02:28 <VimDiesel> Title: FreeBSD Handbook | FreeBSD Documentation Portal
07:03:13 <remiliascarlet> As for installing via a GUI, you could as well take a look at GhostBSD, which is a modified FreeBSD distro with a GUI pre-configured.
07:03:49 <GoSox> is ghost still the same underlying version of freebsd as - more or less - what is current?
07:04:07 <GoSox> i have a vm of one of them somewhere, let me dig that up
07:04:15 <remiliascarlet> But I rather recommend you learn the command line, it's not that hard, and not learning it in any UNIX environment will bite you in the ass at some point.
07:05:02 <GoSox> i can kind of get by with the cli, but i work so much quicker with a gui for most things
07:05:34 <GoSox> also, i guess i don't have a freebsd VM anymore
07:06:11 <GoSox> from what i remember, i was following some guide just to get it installed and get a gui running but the steps weren't working and eventually i gave up
07:06:38 <remiliascarlet> From what I see, GhostBSD 24.04.1 came out on 05/20, FreeBSD 14.1 came out a couple days later, so I doubt it's the latest and greatest FreeBSD under the hood.
07:07:20 <remiliascarlet> Unless GhostBSD is truly to FreeBSD what Ubuntu is to Debian, and just use the testing branch (or -CURRENT in FreeBSD) as the base.
07:07:35 <GoSox> a couple days later, thats gotta be pretty close
07:08:11 <GoSox> ill set up a VM of that and see how far i can get
07:09:48 <remiliascarlet> Since it confuses a lot of people, to convert FreeBSD branches to Debian branches: -RELEASE = stable, -STABLE = testing, -CURRENT = unstable.
07:10:32 <GoSox> ok i wasn't using the word current in that way
07:13:27 <remiliascarlet> Oh, I can see on the screenshot on GhostBSD's website's news section that 24.04.1 uses FreeBSD 14.0-STABLE. So yes, it's not the release branch, and no, it's not the latest one.
07:14:43 <GoSox> what is the latest freebsd release? google says it is 14.0
07:15:18 <remiliascarlet> https://ghostbsd.org/news
07:15:19 <VimDiesel> Title: Latest News | GhostBSD
07:15:30 <remiliascarlet> Oops, misread.
07:15:37 <remiliascarlet> The latest version is 14.1-RELEASE.
07:15:53 <remiliascarlet> https://www.freebsd.org/releases/14.1R/announce/
07:15:54 <VimDiesel> Title: FreeBSD 14.1-RELEASE Announcement | The FreeBSD Project
07:16:30 <GoSox> ahhh once again relying on google to process search results, instead of actually going to the websites, give me bad info
07:17:15 <remiliascarlet> Which is always the case.
07:17:45 <GoSox> believe me i know. i run a formerly very popular ip address website that nobody clicks on anymore thanks to google
07:17:57 <remiliascarlet> But understandable. In the Linux world you're more likely to rely on search engines and StackOverflow for solutions, whereas in the BSD world you're more likely to rely on the Manpages and the official website.
07:18:07 <GoSox> the google giveth and then the google taketh away
07:19:14 <remiliascarlet> FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD each have very extensive Manpages and Handbook or FAQ available. So much so that you will never need to rely on search engines.
07:19:29 <remiliascarlet> But yeah, GNU's Manpages are pretty poor quality.
07:20:28 <remiliascarlet> The only exception I can think of is Gentoo, their handbook is pretty extensive.
07:24:07 <GoSox> oh wait i have used ghostbsd before i think! not installed though, i think i used it as a "live cd" type of thing once, it looks very familiiar
07:28:37 <GoSox> alright ghostbsd is installing. this could be fun
07:28:51 <GoSox> especially if i can find a macos 8 theme for the gui lol
07:30:23 <remiliascarlet> One tip: don't expect "--help" or "-h" to work. Instead, we use "man (comman here)" for that.
07:30:45 <remiliascarlet> So instead of `du --help`, you'd use `man du` for example.
07:31:01 <GoSox> yup, anything thats similar to how macos works, ill be very faimilar with
07:31:10 <GoSox> and anything thats different, ill be completely lost :D
07:31:38 <remiliascarlet> You'll be very familiar with FreeBSD then, the coreutils in macOS are almost identical.
07:31:56 <GoSox> yup thats how freebsd ended up on my radar in the first place
07:32:15 <GoSox> i'm still running an apple xserve right now, running a version of macos so old, I don't even want to say
07:32:40 <GoSox> shame its in a data center because it would probably be an ideal piece of hardware to drive-refurbish and install a clean freebsd on
07:32:49 <remiliascarlet> I have a PowerBook G4 on which I installed OpenBSD, just for fun.
07:33:51 <remiliascarlet> I often see Linux users switching to BSD (I'm one of those), but macOS to BSD isn't nearly as common.
07:34:01 <remiliascarlet> And Windows to BSD I've never even heard of.
07:34:42 <GoSox> another thing that brought me to freebsd is that its essentially immune to syn_flood attacks due to the way it handles incoming tcp connections right?
07:35:01 <remiliascarlet> Not familiar with that part.
07:35:04 <GoSox> after much research years ago, turns out macos never added any of that newer stuff since it forked from bsd like 25 years ago
07:35:17 <GoSox> my web server is under near constanat syn flood attack, just because people are assholes
07:35:43 <remiliascarlet> Yeah, pretty hard to have nice things these days.
07:36:14 <GoSox> the only way my version of macos can protect itself against synfloods is through a feature built into the pf firewall
07:36:22 <GoSox> and that feature is broken in my os version
07:36:36 <GoSox> luckily my data center put me behind their fancy anti-ddos system for free
07:36:44 <remiliascarlet> But perhaps if security is the main issue, OpenBSD might be a better pick.
07:36:45 <GoSox> but i need a real solution
07:37:04 <remiliascarlet> But when it comes to familiarity to macOS, running a NAS, or just performance, FreeBSD is king.
07:38:51 <remiliascarlet> Of course FreeBSD also wins in terms of amount of packages and ports customizability, but that's not really relevant to web servers.
07:39:28 <GoSox> is there a BOINC client for freebsd?
07:39:39 <GoSox> do projects need to support freebsd specifically?
07:40:02 <remiliascarlet> Never heard of BOINC before.
07:40:55 <remiliascarlet> Projects don't need to do so, but it does help. Maintainers generally port Linux packages over to FreeBSD, and then the other BSD's in turn port it to their OS's from FreeBSD.
07:41:21 <GoSox> i meant BOINC projects specifically
07:41:31 <GoSox> but if you're not familiar with BOINC then nevermind
07:41:45 <GoSox> its the platform that used to run Seti@Home and many other projects
07:42:30 <remiliascarlet> But if you're a developer, it definitely helps to develop on either OpenBSD or NetBSD, because if it works on those, it will work on FreeBSD and Linux. If made on FreeBSD it might work on OpenBSD and NetBSD, but it's not a guarantee. And if made on Linux, it might very likely not work.
07:43:33 <GoSox> oh nevermind, freeBSD is specifically listed in this project so i guess thats that
07:43:36 <GoSox> https://asteroidsathome.net/boinc/apps.php
07:43:39 <VimDiesel> Title: Applications
07:43:41 <GoSox> hopefully other projects too
07:44:19 <GoSox> ok better example, here's a project that doesn't specifically list any BSD applications: https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/apps.php
07:44:20 <VimDiesel> Title: Applications
07:44:43 <GoSox> will the linux app run on bsd? or is this project S.O.L. for freebsd?
07:44:48 <yourfate> small pet-peeve during upgrade: it would be nice if the merging of files would honor my EDITOR variable, and not just use vi anyways.
07:45:38 <remiliascarlet> An "app" will only run on either iOS or Android.
07:46:16 <remiliascarlet> But a Linux program won't just run on BSD as-is. Unless its code can compile 1:1 to BSD, then you can run.
07:47:40 <remiliascarlet> The problem with a lot of Linux software is that the developers generally aren't aware that BSD's (and Illumosses, Plan9's, and all the other good stuff) exist, so they end up uncontiously using libraries or system calls that are incompatible with anything other than Linux, Windows, and maybe macOS.
07:48:39 <GoSox> well as a lifetime mac user, i'm very familiar with being the red-headed-stepchild of software compatability
07:48:57 <remiliascarlet> yourfate: vi is the default, so always handy to at the very least know some of the keybindings.
07:49:27 <GoSox> also besides BOINC projects, all i'm going to run in this machine is apache, php, mariadb, some form of vpn server, and some form of mail server
07:49:37 <GoSox> well and i guess some form of fileserver too
07:49:43 <GoSox> all low traffic except the web server
07:49:56 <yourfate> remiliascarlet: I can work it, but i'd prefer it to just use what's in the `EDITOR` variable
07:50:03 <yourfate> like most cli tools that require an editor
07:50:11 <remiliascarlet> Then you're good to go with FreeBSD, because all of that is readily available in the ports tree.
07:51:44 <remiliascarlet> Also, unless you have something that explicitely relies on Apache, you might give nginx a try, which is much ligherweight (was waaaaaay more ligherweight back in the late 2000s, but things have changed).
07:52:35 <paulf> never used it but there is also linuxulator https://wiki.freebsd.org/Linuxulator
07:52:36 <VimDiesel> Title: Linuxulator - FreeBSD Wiki
07:53:09 <remiliascarlet> Nginx has gained lots of bloat over the years as it gained more mainstream attention.
07:53:33 <remiliascarlet> So I feel blessed for having used Nginx before it became widely known.
07:55:11 <CowboyNeal> heh, in the old days I had to run the manual through google translate to do anything beyond the basics
07:58:22 <yourfate> paulf: I'm using the linux compat layer regularly to host various game servers
07:58:26 <yourfate> like factorio, valheim
07:58:29 <yourfate> it works well
07:59:33 <yourfate> this article explains it well: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/linuxemu/
07:59:34 <VimDiesel> Title: Chapter 12. Linux Binary Compatibility | FreeBSD Documentation Portal
08:19:55 <paulf> yourfate but I doubt that it's good enough for my needs
08:20:07 <paulf> which is why I've never bothered trying
08:20:09 <polyex65> how's 14.1 guys?
08:20:42 <yourfate> am upgrading my first machine rn. its a raspberry pi so it'll take a while. if that goes well i'll upgrade the server
08:20:44 <paulf> polyex65 still testing in vbox, doesn;t seem to break much for me
09:30:09 <remiliascarlet> I have upgraded my NAS to 14.1, but I didn't notice any mindblowing differences from 14.0.
09:32:16 <remiliascarlet> Well, except that Neofetch now shows "FreeBSD 14.1-RELEASE" instead of "FreeBSD-RELEASE-p6".
09:32:26 <remiliascarlet> Well, except that Neofetch now shows "FreeBSD 14.1-RELEASE" instead of "FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE-p6".
09:35:26 <GoSox> is there any vpn server software included or in ports you can run on a machine, so it can be a vpn endpoint that client machines can connect to?
09:35:32 <GoSox> like racoon or something
09:36:26 <remiliascarlet> `pkg search vpn`
09:36:54 <remiliascarlet> Otherwise, Wireguard is included, but what OS doesn't come with Wireguard these days anyway?
09:37:36 <GoSox> argh in this virtual machine, i can't get the vmware tools to run and the mouse control is driving me insane
09:38:53 <remiliascarlet> How about `pkg install xf86-video-vmware`?
09:39:11 <GoSox> ill have to look in to this later. the thing that always drives me nuts baout loking for vpn software on any platform is its never clear whats a client, whats a server
09:39:29 <GoSox> i did the pkg install of the package vmware itself suggested
09:39:36 <GoSox> no errors but it doesn't seem to be doing anything
09:39:49 <GoSox> open-vm-tools
09:40:40 <remiliascarlet> Did you read any instructions that showed up after the installation completed, if any?
09:41:13 <remiliascarlet> Because very often the package manager will tell you what to do next at the very end of the installation.
09:42:50 <remiliascarlet> I wanted to install that package myself just to check, but it wanted me to install 48 packages at a total of 222 MiB, so I thought "NOPE!".
09:44:23 <GoSox> i don't recall seeing any, i did google up some instructions to add a line to the rc.conf but that didn't help
09:44:24 <GoSox> BUT
09:44:32 <GoSox> i really need to go to bed ill play around with this more later
09:56:34 <GoSox> OH heres a question
09:57:10 <GoSox> can you install hdiutil or some other software that lets you create/mount/work with apple disk images?
10:01:24 <remiliascarlet> Wow, that was a short sleep!
10:01:29 <yourfate> so, my rpi4b is at "installing updates" for close to 3 hours now
10:01:33 <yourfate> I think something got hung up
10:01:41 <GoSox> i know i keep not walking away
10:03:13 <remiliascarlet> But not sure about hdiutil. Much of Apple's software is very proprietary, and all Apple has given back to FreeBSD was 5 dollars.
10:05:59 <GoSox> yeah everyone seems to have their own disk image formats so there isn't much need for using apple disk images on other systems. But it would be really handy for me specifically since this would be a server accessed/managed exclusively by Macs (not counting web traffic of course)
10:06:05 <GoSox> ok i'm really leaving now, later
10:08:10 <remiliascarlet> Suggestion: set up an NFS server, mount it on your Mac, and then you can transfer your files over from macOS to FreeBSD that way.
10:08:34 <remiliascarlet> That's what I do with my FreeBSD NAS to transfer across OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and Linux.
10:10:49 <remiliascarlet> Or simpler: rsync.
10:23:03 <h3sp4wn> Does anyone happen to know what you put in make.conf to force llvm18 ? (I did something once that caused the build system to tell me to not do that ans what to do instead but I cannot for the life of me get it to do it again)
10:23:21 <lw> h3sp4wn: for ports, DEFAULT_VERSIONS+=llvm=18 should work
10:23:38 <lw> that doesn't actually force anything to use llvm 18 but if something uses the default llvm version, it will get 18
10:25:14 <yourfate> so, how bad would you say is the idea of interrupting the `freebsd-update install` call?
10:25:23 <h3sp4wn> lw: Thanks alot.
10:48:29 <al1r4d> pkg: packagesite URL error for pkg+http://pkg0.kul.FreeBSD.org/FreeBSD:14:amd64/quarterly/data.pkg -- pkg+:// implies SRV mirror type
10:48:30 <al1r4d> pkg: packagesite URL error for pkg+http://pkg0.kul.FreeBSD.org/FreeBSD:14:amd64/quarterly/data.txz -- pkg+:// implies SRV mirror type
10:48:30 <al1r4d> how to fix this?
11:19:26 <remiliascarlet> Context please?
11:36:47 <al1r4d> https://paste.ircnow.org/cpi3w5yjc1in8l6zk9av
11:36:57 <al1r4d> i want to change the mirror url but i got that
11:36:58 <al1r4d> remiliascarlet
11:43:07 <mzar> al1r4d: url: "http://pkg0.kul.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/quarterly"
11:43:36 <mzar> it will work, delete mirror_type
11:55:44 <mzar> al1r4d: do you have any BSD user groups over there ?
11:57:26 <remiliascarlet>  Yes. right here for example.
13:25:43 <gendish> Hello! Someone here who got time to look into a problem I'm having? I've posted it here: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/upgrading-to-14-1.93700/
13:25:45 <VimDiesel> Title: Upgrading to 14.1 | The FreeBSD Forums
13:28:33 <Teraii> hello here
13:28:52 <Teraii> is iocage vnet reliable ?
13:29:09 <Teraii> i saw many config which has failed
13:31:46 <Teraii> ok it's working =)
13:50:51 <s2r> gendish what's the results for bectl list?
13:52:07 <gendish> 14.0-RELEASE_2023-12-02_095647    -      -          68.1M 2023-12-02 09:56
13:52:07 <gendish> 14.1-RELEASE_2024-06-06_024053    -      -          6.55M 2024-06-06 02:40
13:52:07 <gendish> 14.1-RELEASE_2024-06-06_084830    -      -          423M  2024-06-06 08:48
13:52:07 <gendish> 14.1-RELEASE_2024-06-06_093236    -      -          4.23M 2024-06-06 09:32
13:52:07 <gendish> 14.1-RELEASE_2024-06-06_100535    -      -          367M  2024-06-06 10:05
13:52:07 <gendish> 14.1-RELEASE_2024-06-06_101736    -      -          4.12M 2024-06-06 10:17
13:52:08 <gendish> default                           NR     /          7.20T 2021-09-09 11:16
14:02:19 <s2r> gendish: What happens if you activate the last snapshot for the next boot with: "beadm activate 14.1-RELEASE_2024-06-06_101736" and reboot, then freebsd-version -kru again
14:05:46 <gendish> s2r: I'll try that. Thanks.
14:50:27 <HER> whats the correct way to share a directory with a jail ?
14:50:41 <HER> just mount it from the host
14:50:46 <HER> ?
15:00:00 <HER> oh, nullfs
15:51:21 <dautor8518050867> I'm unsure how ports are updated in relation to base OS. I just upgraded to 14.1 and because of this patch (ports/83dafbec2c7603a64e01f3548303fb242b878be5) I expeced to have drm-61-kmod available. However, it appears not to be the case.
15:51:54 <dautor8518050867> What am I missing? When can I expect it to become available through pkg?
16:01:43 <beastwick> Hi, I setup a Linux jail following mostly https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/running-google-chrome-in-a-dedicated-linux-jail.85491/, I am trying to install pi-hole inside this ubuntu jail, but the installation bash scrip throws a /dev/fd/63: No such file or directory, but I do have the fdescfs and other linux mount points mounted. /dev/fd only has 0 1 2, it is missing 63. Not sure how to resolve
16:01:45 <beastwick> this.
16:07:00 <lw> dautor8518050867: packages are only build for each major version, like 14.x, so it will depend on when the 14 builder is upgraded to 14.1.  perhaps someone on the ports@ list knows when that might happen, in the mean time you could build the package from source
16:07:55 <lw> (i imagine this might not happen until 14.0 goes EOL, to avoid breaking users who haven't upgraded)
16:13:12 <dautor8518050867> That makes sense. I don't know if I should mix packages from pkg and manually built ones. It's not that important to me at the moment to be able to use my integrated GPU. I put in an old GPU so I can get by until drm-61-kmod comes. Thank you for the response, lw.
17:24:27 <dff> is there a ufw like front-end available for pf?
17:57:20 <scoobybejesus> yourfate: how did that turn out?  did you interrupt?  mine hung for a while, but eventually finished after an hour (on a much stronger box... i think i3)
18:18:29 <yourfate> scoobybejesus: other stuff also hung at that time. I did try to interrupt it with ctrl+c, as I didn't see any activity in top
18:18:31 <yourfate> but that didn't work
18:18:34 <yourfate> so I just did a reboot
18:18:43 <yourfate> and then tried the update, and it worked fine.
18:18:46 <yourfate> the rpi is now on 14.1
18:19:01 <yourfate> the 2nd time took a few minutes at best
18:19:05 <scoobybejesus> ultimately, it all worked out.  sweet
18:20:23 <yourfate> yes!
18:20:25 <scoobybejesus> yeah, my 2-vcpu VPS instance updated faster than my four core box at home due to the weird hang. i blame jails (maybe vnet)
18:20:40 <yourfate> on the 2nd one I could also constantly see activity in top, gunzip etc
18:22:03 <yourfate> the good thing is, I have learned from previous rpi experiences, and I have a daily backup of the entire FS of the pi using restic
18:22:15 <yourfate> so, if I had hosed it, it would have not been too bad
18:22:31 <yourfate> never trust SD cards with anything
18:23:54 <yourfate> camera manufacturers know that too, pro-grade cameras usually have dual SD slots, and save images to both
18:26:04 <yourfate> i'd prefer FS snapshots, but the pi images don't use zfs as standard, and I'm too lazy to change that
22:51:51 <polyex> 13.3 no matter what i do service -e shows /etc/rc.d/sendmail! how can i totally disable it? i have sendmail_enable="no", _msp_queue_enable no, _outbound_enable no, _submit_enable no. i also have all of the /etc/periodic.conf changes handbook says to put
22:54:45 <concussious> polyex: take a look at /etc/mail/mailer.conf
22:55:24 <concussious> iirc, i didn't do any of that, i just changed it in mailer.conf
22:55:43 <concussious> and i get nothing for service -e | grep mail
22:55:51 <concussious> mail coming in just fine with dma
23:01:45 <polyex> what did you do in mailer.conf?
23:08:26 <concussious> sendmail        /usr/libexec/dma
23:08:33 <concussious> mailq           /usr/libexec/dma
23:08:38 <polyex> what if i have no dma installed?
23:08:39 <concussious> newaliases      /usr/libexec/dma
23:08:57 <concussious> i don't think you have no dma installed
23:09:20 <concussious> uname -U ?
23:09:22 <saper> polyex: sendmail_enable=NONE
23:09:58 <saper> polyex: but that's not the SMTP agent, just a local submit daemon
23:10:14 <concussious> also, mailer.conf has a manual page
23:10:56 <saper> yeah but I  think polyex wants to disable the sendmail process starting, not redirect the "sendmail" name
23:11:12 <polyex> ya
23:11:46 <polyex> no sendmail still showing lol damn
23:11:53 <polyex> i'll just wait till i upgrade to 14.1 and try again
23:11:56 <saper> no
23:12:04 <saper> service sendmail stop
23:12:16 <saper> I don't think 14.1 is different
23:12:22 <concussious> mailer.conf is how mail is plumbed
23:12:35 <concussious> if mailer.conf uses dma, it doesn't start sendmail
23:12:43 <concussious> i don't have sendmail
23:13:43 <concussious> also, i put this information in hier(7)
23:14:01 <concussious> and mailer.conf(5) explains everything
23:14:01 <saper> polyex: wait, do you have any sendmail process running? or you just look at service -e ?
23:14:17 <polyex> just service -e
23:15:33 <saper> any sendmail or dma running with ps ax?
23:15:40 <polyex> no
23:16:35 <concussious> which sendmail
23:17:31 <concussious> also, service disable sendmail
23:17:42 <saper> I think service(8) is just a buggy script
23:17:56 <saper> no metter what I put in /etc/rc.conf , -e thinks it is enabled
23:17:57 <concussious> man, dont hate on service, it's working fine over here
23:20:46 <concussious> ive never seen or heard anything that service is buggy
23:22:01 <saper> polyex: you might have found a bug. /etc/rc.d/sendmail has name="..." and rcvar="...." twice, maybe this is confusing the script
23:23:17 <saper> concussious: "-e" just uses heuristics explained in the manpage, so it is not 100% correct
23:24:38 <concussious> saper: thanks, that's very interesting
23:25:17 <saper> polyex: sendmail_msp_queue_enable=NO should remove sendmail from the list and stop  worry you
23:25:28 <saper> but sendmail_enable=NONE is better ;>
23:25:57 <saper> (I have never used service -e before)
23:26:46 <concussious> well, the real deal is /etc/src.conf : WITHOUT_SENDMAIL=1
23:27:22 <concussious> recompile your system without sendmail even existing
23:28:05 <saper> and wait for llvm to build
23:29:20 <concussious> yeah i mean, if you read and apply mailer.conf it won't matter
23:29:49 <concussious> thus, i said, which sendmail. its a link to mailwrapper
23:30:08 <concussious> and as described in hier(7), mailwrapper is configured with mailer.conf(5)