00:45:37 <skered> Is it a bug that daemon(8) can't be killed via TERM if set to restart (-r) but never runs a process?  Otherwise INT does kill it but doesn't clean up pid files.
00:47:17 <skered> er I guess it's not never runs but while it's sleeping to run if -R.
00:48:47 <skered> daemon -rR 10 -p pid -P parent false     Then pkill -F parent.
00:57:55 <skered> Smells like this might be related. https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=277959
00:57:58 <VimDiesel> Title: 277959 – Refactor of usr.sbin/daemon caused regression in restart parameter
06:26:13 <darwin> can I uninstall all lib32/32-bit software?
06:32:25 <darwin> oh, I guess it's already gone.  Almost 9GB seems like a lot without that and without X, when I installed it on a virtual private server (VPS) but I didn't get to go through the installation and they may have chosen everything
06:52:30 <al1r4d> how to check if lib32/32-bit was installed?
06:52:34 <al1r4d> darwin
06:53:49 <darwin> look for /lib32
07:01:52 <al1r4d>  % ls /lib
07:01:52 <al1r4d> lib/     libexec/
07:01:58 <al1r4d> hmm, there is no lib32/
09:02:59 <GoSox> howdy, anyone home?
09:06:09 <edenist> GoSox, always!
09:06:27 <GoSox> cool, just seeing how active this channel is
09:06:35 <GoSox> thinking about moving my production server over to freebsd
09:06:47 <GoSox> and if i do, i will likely have no end of questions :D
09:07:35 <edenist> it ebbs and flows based on timezones, but it's usually pretty consistent
09:09:03 <GoSox> ok so just a quick question or two since its bedtime and i don't want to dig deep right now, but
09:09:11 <GoSox> does freebsd use cron or launchd or both?
09:50:54 <tmp_> cron
09:51:21 <tmp_> i don't think anyone's started on porting launchd?
09:51:45 <GoSox> i googled it and came up with an article that said it was included.... but the article was anchient
09:53:21 <tmp_> yeah, and at a quick glance, some have made an effort to port it, but so far that's it
09:54:47 <GoSox> lol i just read something about "nextbsd" having it, and its a link, so i clicked the link, now a website is trying to install malware on my computer. I guess nextbsd isn't a thing anymore
09:54:51 <GoSox> oh well, bedtime
09:55:58 <tmp_> yeah, there's a page on the freebsd wiki that has someinfo
09:56:23 <wildeboskat> nextbsd?
09:56:28 <wildeboskat> You mean netbsd?
09:56:34 <GoSox> nope
09:56:44 <GoSox> but it appears to be dead
09:56:48 <wildeboskat> Ahh it was the branch based on darwin
09:56:49 <wildeboskat> Cool
09:56:52 <wildeboskat> Never heard of that
09:57:10 <wildeboskat> But yeah meh
09:57:12 <wildeboskat> I don't see the point
09:57:13 <GoSox> nextstep itself was originally a branch of some bsd, wasn't it?
09:57:37 <wildeboskat> It did have a custom microkernel as osx still does
09:57:40 <tmp_> not originally
09:57:43 <wildeboskat> I think it's mostly the userland
09:57:45 <wildeboskat> That's BSD
09:58:51 <wildeboskat> Yeah I checked the wiki, it's the mach kernel (that's an unrelated development) + 4.3BSD userland originally
09:59:07 <tmp_> yes, tahoe for the userland
10:00:25 <wildeboskat> I never used nextstep back in the day
10:00:29 <wildeboskat> It was eyewateringly expensive
10:00:42 <wildeboskat> ANd there was nearly no software for it
10:01:01 <wildeboskat> It was really targeted at universities
10:01:02 <tmp_> i've worked in a few places that had some
10:01:33 <wildeboskat> Oh cool@
10:01:42 <wildeboskat> At college we had HP-UX and at 2 places I worked too
10:01:48 <wildeboskat> So I was more familiar with that side of thijngs
10:02:11 <wildeboskat> I still have some boxes at hokme
10:02:13 <tmp_> they changed the name to openstep at some point, and that's what it was running under when apple bought it
10:02:16 <wildeboskat> Sorry for the typos
10:02:21 <tmp_> no worries
10:02:40 <tmp_> i'm too drained to capitalize anythign myself
10:03:04 <wildeboskat> No worries either
10:03:11 <wildeboskat> I didn't even notice
10:04:19 <tmp_> one site i worked at adjacent to the dev center had a bunch of openstep systems in the offices, and the developer team had betas of transition from openstep to macosx (rhapsody)
10:05:17 <wildeboskat> Nice!!
10:05:26 <wildeboskat> There was this russian site where you could find all this ancient unixy stuff
10:05:40 <wildeboskat> But it's probably down now with everything that's happened
10:05:53 <wildeboskat> It was way better than archive.org
10:06:02 <wildeboskat> For this particular niche
10:06:15 <tmp_> so the openstep black boxes booted up as 'nextstep 4' and the rhapsody ones as 'nextstep 5'
10:06:37 <wildeboskat> So they only ever made 5 steps lol
10:07:01 <GoSox> there was some old version of macos x server that was macos x under the surface but had the classic macos 9 GUI on it. That would have been neat to see
10:07:11 <wildeboskat> Yes that was rhapsody
10:07:28 <wildeboskat> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhapsody_(operating_system)#/media/File:Apple_Rhapsody_screenshot.png
10:07:30 <VimDiesel> Title: Rhapsody (operating system) - Wikipedia
10:07:33 <tmp_> i haven't checked for quite a while, but osx 10 still mentioned nextstep 5 multiple versions after release
10:08:00 <tmp_> in the kernel boot messages
10:08:31 <wildeboskat> The first one I used was Jaguar
10:08:46 <wildeboskat> On a clamshell iBook
10:09:07 <wildeboskat> It also looked like an oversized handbag when carried by the handle lol
10:09:24 <wildeboskat> I miss that kind of design outlandishness
11:54:19 <mfisher> I was hanging out in a freebsd channel somewhere back when jkh was at apple and he let people ssh into an early osx version for a little bit
12:12:08 <saper> wow
12:24:37 <al1r4d> After I upgraded to 14-1, I can "su" without a password. How do I fix this?
12:27:05 <babz> O.o
12:27:31 <babz> al1r4d: taht sounds... bad ?
12:27:48 <al1r4d> yes
12:28:08 <al1r4d> looks like it was conflicted with "/etc/passwd" and "/etc/master.passwd"
12:28:30 <al1r4d> root::0:0::0:0:Charlie &:/root:/bin/sh
12:28:34 <al1r4d> is this normal?
12:28:38 <al1r4d> i can su without password
12:29:45 <al1r4d> passwd: could not lock the passwd file: No such file or directory
12:29:47 <al1r4d> weird
12:29:54 <al1r4d> i want to change my root password and i got this
12:31:14 <tby> is there some env setting for how exiting vim is handled, trying to figure out why on my linux boxes after exiting vim I come back to where I was in the terminal while on my freebsd boxes it exists leaving what was in vim above
12:39:49 <tmp_> vim uses a .vimrc file, and keeps the history in .viminfo
12:40:16 <tmp_> Your other systems may have a system /etc/vimrc or something.
12:42:05 <babz> al1r4d: you want to compile vim with the XTERM_SAVE option enabled
12:42:43 <tmp_> al1r4d: You have /etc/passwd, /etc/master.passwd, /etc/pwd.db and /etc/spwd.db all intact?
12:43:17 <al1r4d> yes, i have all files you mentioned
12:43:21 <al1r4d> babz, not me, but tby
12:43:36 <babz> oops
12:46:06 <tby> babz: thanks, checked man on that option, exactly what I was looking for instead of messing around with termcap, thanks
12:46:38 <tmp_> al1r4d: How about a /etc/pw.[six-character-alnum-string] ? If something's editing (or was) password data that might be there as a lockfile.
12:47:16 <al1r4d> there is only /etc/pw.db, mate tmp_.. :/
12:47:41 <tmp_> Can you run vipw ?
12:50:49 <tmp_> The line you posted looks normalish for the vipw or simlar view, other than the empty password field.
12:52:11 <al1r4d> yes i can run
12:52:17 <al1r4d> should i post the results in here?
12:52:18 <ridcully> al1r4d: paranoia-check - what does `id` show as the user, you are running su?
12:52:42 <al1r4d> # id
12:52:43 <al1r4d> uid=0(root) gid=0(wheel) groups=0(wheel),5(operator)
12:53:17 <tmp_> That you run su from? If you're already root, su runs without a password.
12:53:18 <ridcully> so you had to enter a password for `su` if you ran `su` as user root?
12:53:40 <al1r4d> ridcully, nope, i have not
12:54:04 <al1r4d> tmp_, i know if su runs without a password, but i have not enter a password for `su`
12:55:18 <tmp_> I'm still a little confused. Which id did you use to run `su`?
12:55:53 <ridcully> maybe there is something lost in translation
12:55:57 <ridcully> tmp_: /me 2
12:57:09 <al1r4d> oh yeah, sorry
12:57:12 <al1r4d> this is
12:57:15 <ridcully> al1r4d: uid==0 -> su will not ask for a password.  otherwise it will (broad strokes here, there for sure are exceptions)
12:57:23 <al1r4d> uid=1001(alif) gid=1001(alif) groups=1001(alif),0(wheel)
12:58:04 <al1r4d> so, i'm on "alif" (regular user), i want to be root, so i need to run "su"..but i did not enter a password to be "root"
12:58:17 <al1r4d> i hope you understand my english since is not my native language
12:58:26 <tmp_> No worries.
12:59:37 <ridcully> and we are talking `su` -- not `sudo`
13:00:08 <al1r4d> tmp, okay
13:00:13 <al1r4d> ridcully, yeah, su, not sudo
13:00:21 <tmp_> Anyway, the line you posted earlier, is that what's in /etc/master.password as is? Or did you redact the pw field?
13:01:05 <al1r4d> no, i did not change anything on /etc/master.password.. i just posted and share on here
13:02:41 <tmp_> Hmmm. How about running chpass (as root)? Specifically `chpass root`
13:04:47 <al1r4d> let me try
13:07:35 <al1r4d> tmp -> https://paste.ircnow.org/0li7056bw9i78hyjsdef
13:08:39 <al1r4d> Who is charlie? O_o
13:08:53 <al1r4d> "Charlie is the traditional owner since 1970 of the root account on the UNIX systems. So it has nothing to do with Gnome. I could give you reason why but you seems ready to hurt somebody because of that."
13:08:54 <al1r4d> hmm
13:09:17 <al1r4d> https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/who-is-charlie.49834/ Today I Learned haha
13:09:18 <VimDiesel> Title: Solved - Who is Charlie? | The FreeBSD Forums
13:09:24 <tmp_> That's based on when root defaulted to /bin/csh for the shell.
13:10:20 <tmp_> Something of a phonetic reference to it.
13:10:57 <al1r4d> Ugh, i dont understand, what do you mean "Something of a phonetic reference to it."?
13:12:06 <tmp_> Organizations using words for letters over voice communications. May use "Charlie" to refer to "C". In this case "Charlie" -> "C-Shell".
13:13:19 <tmp_> Anyway, can you set a password with chpass?
13:13:22 <al1r4d> Oh yeah, i understand
13:13:26 <al1r4d> Let me try, tmp_
13:14:11 <al1r4d> hmm
13:14:21 <al1r4d> now i need to enter password after i ran "su"
13:14:24 <al1r4d> thank you, tmp_
13:14:27 <al1r4d> looks like solved
13:15:05 <tmp_> Yep. Something emptied the password field, so it went with none required.
13:17:16 <al1r4d> :)
13:17:17 <al1r4d> nice
13:17:32 <tmp_> Looks like "Charlie Root" isn't accurate enough here: "Login: root Name: The Root of All Access"
13:17:44 <tmp_> Where I'm working.
13:17:52 <al1r4d> By the way, how to change a mirror? I know repo will detect me to nearest mirror.. but i still getting slow speed
13:20:39 <tmp_> The OS is set /etc/freebsd-update.conf . If you're using binary packages, that's in /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf with overrides in /usr/local/etc/pkg/
13:24:06 <tmp_> Documentation in freebsd-update.conf(5) and pkg.conf(5).
13:30:03 <ZedHedTed> as long as it doesn't all end in a Charlie Foxtrot :D
13:33:39 <wildeboskat> What's bad about that?
13:33:48 <wildeboskat> I used to fly a plane called charlie foxtrot
13:34:10 <wildeboskat> Ah wait I think I know what it means
13:34:20 <tmp_> And you lived to tell about it!
13:34:25 <wildeboskat> Never thought of that lol
13:34:33 <wildeboskat> Yeah it was a nice little 172
13:37:49 <tby> what a refreshing "it just works" simplicity, built new vim from ports with the option I wanted and created my own pkg for use on my boxes, expected at least one headache but got none
13:42:49 <Demosthenex> that tends to be my attitude on freebsd. *sigh* wow it just works
14:35:54 <signalblue> Hi everyone, I have a question regarding the pkg package manager. If I was in the middle of running pkg update/upgrade, and the SSH connection terminates, my first reaction was to reestablish the connection and run the commands again but now they say that there are no new updates needed, how do I fix this?
14:36:04 <signalblue> Do I need to reinstall the OS and start over?
14:43:05 <tmp_> Shouldn't need to go that far.
14:44:02 <tmp_> `pkg check` will sanity check the installed packages.
14:46:07 <signalblue> tmp_: should I just run 'pkg check -a'?
14:46:32 <tmp_> I'd start with `pkg check -sa`
14:47:34 <tmp_> And pkg check has options to regenerate various details.
14:52:38 * scoobybejesus is just noting my prior comment on "ranting" was sincere, and that conversation was super interesting to me :)
14:54:53 <signalblue> tmp_: it says "pkg: Package database is busy while closing!"
15:33:32 <tmp_> Hmmm.
15:35:33 <tmp_> Any sign of the pkg upgrade from the previous session? On the possibility it went for finishing the last task it could before aborting?
15:42:12 <signalblue> tmp_: I seee the evidence in /var/log/messages
15:45:59 <signalblue> other than that, no
15:50:22 <tmp_> Gone from ps, eh?
16:13:24 <signalblue> tmp_ yes
16:14:49 <tmp_> How about `pkg info`?
16:15:04 <tmp_> The list looks okay?
16:17:10 <signalblue> yes i tried pkg upgrade <some 10 random packages> and they're all up to date
16:18:57 <signalblue> but tmp_ according to pkg info, i know for a fact most of those packages are not in fact up to date
16:19:01 <signalblue> distrowatch proves it
16:23:29 <tmp_> Hmm. As the `pkg check` was pretty early in this, have you checked again after verifying no pkg showed up in ps?
16:24:07 <isley> you're probably on the quarterly repo and checking against latest.
16:25:42 <tmp_> isley: Ooh, point.
16:53:08 <signalblue> isley: I ran "pkg check -Bdr", and have the same issue still.
17:55:42 * beowuff attempts to patiently wait for torrent seeds for 14.1 so I can seed them...
17:58:29 <V_PauAmma_V> I vaguely remember there are no official torrents any longer. Dunno about people downloading it and making a torrent seed of it.
18:02:20 <beowuff> I usually get them from wiki.freebsd.org/Torrents
18:02:32 <beowuff> And then seed them until a new release.
18:10:15 <V_PauAmma_V> *nod*
20:58:35 <beastwick> Hi, I am trying to sync my clock. I set my timezone to EST, it asks if EDT is okay (daylights savings?), said yes, but the clock still shows 20:00, when it should be 17:00 right now. ntpd is active.
21:08:12 <mzar> beastwick: you can set timezone with tzsetup(8), prepending "iburst" to servers configured in ntp.conf as upstream will expedite synchronisation, but with ntpdate(8) you can synchronize even faster
21:22:01 <klamaonos> beastwick: is your hwclock set correctly despite the tz being correct? If not, `ntpdate pool.ntp.org` can synchronize it
21:30:03 <beastwick> klamaonos that helped
21:30:06 <beastwick> fixed it
21:37:19 <klamaonos> nice. And just as I suggested it I noticed my own clock was off lol. I hear that from a security perspective, ntpdate isn't the best choice, despite doing the job well. I wonder what's the more secure alternative?
21:38:12 <mzar> ntpd with keys
21:41:59 <klamaonos> ok time to do some reading for me
21:42:37 <mzar> have a nice reading klamaonos !
23:03:34 <beowuff> Looks like the alternative is: /etc/init.d/ntp ntptimeset
23:49:38 <concussious> GoSox: we use vixie cron, but there's other implementations available in ports.