05:30:51 I'm having a bizarre issue that 05:36:57 I'm having a bizarre issue that I am unable to troubleshoot. I'm a 2-decade linux user but I'm pretty new at BSD. I'm installing a Freebsd laptop and was struggling to get the trackpad working on X. Even on the console, if I start moused, the mouse doesn't work and I can't even type at full speed. it misses characters 05:38:23 The mouse *does* work, on a linux live CD, so I'm confident that the trackpad is actually working. There's no kernel messages or errors as far as I can tell. 05:39:46 and this is a Thinkpad T490, a couple of years old, 48G of ram. But if I start moused (or X11), the mouse doesn't move and the keyboard can't keep up with more than one character per second typing. 05:43:00 It's a fresh Freebsd-14-Release installation with installed xorg and drm-kmod metapackages installed. I have loaded the intel video driver as per the handbook. But it actually does this on a fresh installation+moused. 05:45:17 Some random internet forum post looked similar and they had some legacy USB protocol enabled in BIOS. I don't have any legacy USB related toggles. But I'm kind of just stabbing in the dark at what the problem might be. 05:45:26 arch-nemesis: I'd like to see the outcome if you boot FreeBSD 13.3 05:46:36 * deimosBSD can't think of the last time moused was used on a system 05:47:18 Yeah, I was just doing that so i coudl try it out without X. It was a shock to me that even that made everything slow. 05:48:18 Okay, I'll give 13.3 a shot. 05:48:44 of course, if you have a different mouse laying around, you might also do that ;) 05:49:07 it's not the age of the system, my main desktop is from 2016 05:51:16 fluent-bit crashed easy but opentelemetry-collector builds and is running fine so i'll just use that 07:24:17 Just to update -- Freebsd-13.3 works fine for me. I'm going to step away for now, and I'm going to troubleshoot the issue further tomorrow. I have a solution, but I want to bone up my troubleshooting skills and try to do some real debugging. 07:25:45 The solution meaning use 13.3 and give up on 14.0 if I can't figure it out. but yeah time to learn some debugging tricks. 07:25:59 Thanks, all. 07:35:20 arch-nemesis 14.1 comes next month 10:35:58 do you regularly reboot your BSD machines? I have two that have now been up for about 170 days 11:01:03 yourfate: that's past recent s.a. iirc 11:01:06 :) 11:01:20 s.a.? 11:01:31 otherwise, no 11:02:31 security advisory 11:02:37 aah 11:02:54 should I read some mailing list that tells me to reboot? 11:03:15 and upgrade 11:03:21 you can subscribe to freebsd-security-announce mailing list, or use the rss feed on the website, but not every SA requires a reboot 11:03:29 I do reboot usually when I do a release upgrade 11:07:00 for 13.x, in last 170d it seems like there's something to reboot about 11:09:52 14 too 11:09:57 depends 11:15:32 yeah, for sure 13:28:28 anyne on thinkpad t480? 13:42:00 It's a common choice. I don't use one personally, but ISTR at least someone here does. Meanwhile, see https://wiki.freebsd.org/Laptops#T-Z and https://wiki.freebsd.org/Laptops/Thinkpad_T480 . 13:42:01 Title: Laptops - FreeBSD Wiki 13:44:09 yes, i saw this page. question is for real end users, who own the model. my question maybe little bit more generic. it seems the model is fine with suspend (S3). what i want is to disable powersaving on ethernet card while laptop in suspend. if possible at all 13:45:16 somehow i hate disconnects during suspend times 15:00:21 so much silence here for a long time 15:00:56 can anyone tell me if it is possible to encrypt two disks and type password only once? 15:04:59 it usually is when questions aren't being asked 15:07:01 i asked several times :) 15:26:26 first time you appeared in my logs since 2023-12-06 15:36:25 wikan: I didn't see your previous question here either. 16:02:12 wikan, sure, set up those disks in mirror;) 16:40:54 hi deimosBSD 16:59:37 i am sorry, i was sleeping 17:01:08 about 2 months ago I asked about IMG file. I wanted to replace setup program with my own script. 17:01:25 still actual question ;) 20:06:41 polarian: we meet again 20:06:55 unfortunately... 20:07:00 jk jk 20:07:03 Small world 20:12:19 such is the world of BSD 20:30:06 open, net or free? 20:31:49 Can't it include all of us all together? :-) 20:33:27 arino: you asking which to use? 20:33:35 because each BSD has their own usecase :P 20:33:47 can u explain those cases? 20:33:55 in short 20:36:32 arino , I honestly don't know and am curious too, I like the 'code correctness' idea of openbsd, and find it interesting when looking at it from a systems design point of view. freebsd seems to have the largest community and commercial support behind it. 20:36:49 although I'll add that openbsd has 10 more users in it than #freebsd at the moment lol 20:37:17 I'd love to know what netbsd is about in 2024, supporting ancient architectures? 20:37:41 xgpt, same as it's always been. . . keeping jurassic hardware alive. 20:37:55 "You know your hardware sucks when not even the NetBSD people want it." 20:38:29 right now i am fighting with dell's bios using linux and freebsd, searching for the way to disable bios control of my fan. 20:39:28 i like netbsd, it will be a choice for nuclear winter after all 20:40:18 you can find something in junkyard, kind of fridge and use it with dvd player and 19 century typewriter to revive 20:42:08 CrtxReavr , I just don't understand why anyone would use it on modern hardware 20:42:17 does it have particularly strong ARM support in 2024? 20:42:40 that might be a reason, which BSD has the strongest apple silicon M1/M2/M3 support? 20:45:15 For me I will always have a soft spot in my heart for NetBSD and it will always be there for me. To me it is the most pure form of the system. 20:45:15 xgpt: its minimalistic 20:45:57 arino , isn't openbsd also minimal? 20:46:02 But at the time I needed to set up storage arrays FreeBSD had rock solid ZFS working and NetBSD did not. FreeBSD is the better storage array management system. And other things too! 20:46:31 xgpt: i need to dive into kernel to compare, can't say anything 20:46:43 OpenBSD has the best implementation of pf and as such an OpenBSD as a router is the sweet spot for it. But honestly I am not really attracted to other parts of it. Sorry OpenBSD folks... 20:47:20 I mean, I think they'll sleep fine without your approval ;) 20:47:22 rwp: what means pure? 20:47:49 arino, I mean it most embodies the Unix Philosophy of the vision of the system. 20:48:49 It just feels to me like the most perfect and simple and pure form of the Unix system so far. This is purely a subjective measure and there are definitely corners which are completely broken on all of the systems. 20:49:04 Are people running pkg base without issue? 20:49:40 FreeBSD feels to me like the most practical system having arrived there through a pragmatic sense of compromise. 20:51:02 as i am constantly moving i use laptops and my journey starts from freebsd cause it has biggest pool of supported hardware i think 20:51:38 it also has all interpreters i use to calculate stats and real estate data 20:52:11 but honestly it looks like freebsd wants to be a linux last years 20:55:22 i feel it much more comfortable not to enable linux compatibility features during installation 20:59:01 xgpt, knowing some NetBSD guys. . . they are generally a) BSD fans and b) have a broad collection of hardware and c) like to have he same OS on everything and d) don't mind tinkering to make things work. 21:01:21 they have amazing installation program =) 21:15:27 CrtxReavr , I think B and C are honestly valid points 21:15:32 I'm not a fan of D) 21:15:42 which is why I use linux far more often than I'd like 21:26:54 arino, It has been a year since I last tried to run FreeBSD on a laptop. But at the time and I think still WiFi was/is in a pretty sad state. 21:27:06 (If anyone disagrees and can point me to documentation that targets FreeBSD configuration on laptops I would love it.) I run Devuan on my laptop. But FreeBSD on my desktop. 21:27:11 I have a collection of systems all different and therefore no need to run *everything* on one underpowered laptop as I see some people try to do. 21:27:16 It always makes me worry when I see a newcomer trying to set up FreeBSD to do *everything* on a laptop as I think that will snag on problems in FreeBSD very quickly and turn them off to it long term. 21:27:23 FreeBSD is truly excellent for storage arrays and truly excellent for hosting jail containers for example. Outstanding at it. 21:30:41 rwp: certain devices works ok, but most of them... 21:31:42 xgpt, risking getting banned again. .. when I have the choice, I use FreeB 21:31:45 SD 21:31:48 o_O 21:32:00 CrtxReavr , why are you maybe getting banned? 21:32:08 Because I generally find it requires far less tinkering than linux. 21:32:27 xgpt, it's happened before. . . sure to happen again. 21:32:33 ... 21:33:32 Whoops. . . too many active irssi windows. . . didnt' realize which channel I was in. 21:33:40 Thought this was #linux. 21:34:39 lolol 21:35:00 I was like...we're talking about the same thing, if you're getting banned I'm getting banned and I don't think I'm being rude... 21:35:50 By the conversations it is sometimes hard to tell. But as the /topic says, respect each other, be civilized, have fun. 21:36:34 Actually, there used to be a certain op on this channel would would just idle. . . unless you got "offtopic," then he'd tell you to stop, and would ban you questioned it. . . it was literally the only things he'd ever say on the channel. 21:38:33 eh, I feel like arguing about nuances between variants of a thing is healthy yak-shaving. nobody is attacking each other personally. people are stating they prefer one thing and not another, but not adding attacks or denigrating other ways of doing something. I get annoyed when people yell at off topic chat when there's literally nothing else 21:38:34 happening 21:38:55 if someone else jumped in right now asking support questions, everyone should either move to an #*-offtopic channel or stop yak-shaving 21:39:02 so say we all 21:39:12 but if there's nothing else going on...idk...what's the harm? 21:39:32 I think too many people forget that IRC is supposed to be fun. 21:40:12 Have zero problem with "offtopic" chat, unless the channel starts scrolling so fast, that a purposeful convo becomes hard to track. 21:40:21 (Which is bloody rare in this channel.) 21:40:49 And I *REALLY* don't need to fill by channel list with -offtopic channels. 21:41:12 s/by/my 21:42:21 ops will be replaced by ai 21:42:43 And then the real abuse will begin. 21:49:54 nope 21:50:12 then the real exodus from IRC will begin :P 21:50:32 or...rather...the real retreat from AI monitored discord/slack/etc. BACK to IRC will begin! lol 21:53:33 I always put known slack & discord relay bots on ignore. 21:53:49 If you want to talk on IRC, talk on IRC. 21:54:58 how about matrix? 21:55:39 I don't mind relay bots as long as they are helpful 21:55:48 like...bridge bots to connect two channels 21:55:52 I just think they cause confusion. 21:56:02 depends on implementation / level of traffic 21:56:14 I don't think they should be transparent 21:56:22 I don't think they should clutter a userlist 21:57:18 See. . . you're making up a list of rules, when you could just ignore them. >=] 22:01:40 I foresee the need for something more than simply "registered nicks". This channel is restricted to registered nicks only with unregistered nicks diverted to #freebsd-irc. I foresee that we will need a verified "I am not a robot" restriction somehow. But I fear it will be impossible to accomplish as robots become more accomplished at passing as human. They already complete captchas better than humans. 22:05:06 I didn't even know there was a freebsd-irc overflow 22:05:09 there is a solution google uses - 2fa with auth application on mobile 22:06:05 you can combine numeric code with voice / face / fingerprint identification 22:06:44 unfortunately all stack must be re-invented from scratch cause its proprietary