00:00:06 i just reproduced the FreeBSD_version=0 problem on a different system 00:02:49 crest: i remember SCSI scanners being extremely popular, i bet you could pick one up on ebay if you really wanted to test it :-) 00:03:44 lw: i could just ask my father to for one the next time i see him. I'm sure he has at least one stuffed away in the basement or attic 00:05:06 but implementing some form of Ethernet or IP over (i)SCSI would be a nice PoC to scare people with a high bandwidth side channel 00:06:14 i'm sure quite a few people overlooked that scsi is more than just passive block storage in their treat model 00:06:54 we already have IP over FC, so IP over parallel SCSI / SAS isn't much of a stretch 00:10:00 i used to have an external 10Mbps ethernet adapter for powerbook 180c as a kid 00:10:31 and I've seen someone use an external scsi video card once 00:11:37 in theory you can do a lot with scsi if you have the pain tolerance for it 00:13:26 you know, i have a couple of spare FC HBAs here, one day i should sit down and write IPoFC driver for freebsd. how hard could it be... 00:13:37 famous last words 00:16:12 i used to run ethernet over firewire to a system with only 100Mbps ethernet but 400Mbps firewire ports 00:17:13 afaik freebsd still has if_fwe(4) and if_fwip(4) drivers to this day 00:17:59 possibly not for much longer, i think the entire firewire support is on imp's hit list 00:18:19 which is a shame, i never used it but it seemed like a nice interface 00:19:53 sure beeing able to daisychain up to three external 3.5" hdds from a single port (if you had a 28-30V power rail for it) was nice at the time 00:21:32 btw is there a sane way to do the same ip or ethernet encapsulation via thunderbolt between two hosts (without a pair of thunderbolt nics and a crossover cable)? 00:24:01 without reliving all the horrors of unchecked physical DMA from the firewire days 00:24:53 but back to something less esoteric 00:25:37 the check against the FreeBSD_version annotation in libpkg is at least 7 years old https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/blame/e482b6668b813359ad3658ad5c5c1432964e7b1b/libpkg/utils.c#L371 00:25:38 Title: Blaming pkg/libpkg/utils.c at e482b6668b813359ad3658ad5c5c1432964e7b1b · freebsd/pkg · GitHub 00:27:48 and the code to insert it hasn't been touched in four years: https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/blame/e482b6668b813359ad3658ad5c5c1432964e7b1b/libpkg/pkg_create.c#L568 00:27:51 Title: Blaming pkg/libpkg/pkg_create.c at e482b6668b813359ad3658ad5c5c1432964e7b1b · freebsd/pkg · GitHub 00:32:30 so what changed over the last few days to cause the FreeBSD-kernel-* pkg base packages to be created with an invalid FreeBSD_version? *sigh* 00:34:36 now that looks like it could the change i'm looking for: https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/commit/2dea8d1a0b9ef68befa1e844a9b56ae662ac7194 00:34:37 Title: config: if ABI is provided extrapolate ALTABI · freebsd/pkg@2dea8d1 · GitHub 01:53:16 i narrowed down my problem. the pkg base repo really contains a data.pkg with FreeBSD_version: 0 for the two kernel packages 04:25:59 hm, does freebsd still do PPP in userland? or is it just connection setup in userland and the rest is in netgraph? 05:55:28 mpd5 uses ng_ppp* 05:57:12 ppp(8) does still exist though, so I'm sure you can use it as well. 05:57:49 For initial setup, it's a lot easier to use the latter, but once you're sure it works, it's pretty easy to convert to the former. 10:28:56 is this about ppp(8) or pppoed(8)? 13:26:16 otis: unifi7 isnt letting me log in anymore on https://$SITE:8443/manage/account/login anymore 13:26:24 so I upgraded to unifi8 because deprecated 13:26:37 do I also need to manually migrate the mongod garbage too? 13:29:18 ooh apparently not! 13:43:43 lw you should get better performance from mpd5, assuming your link isn't terrible to start with 13:45:10 dch: no, it can upgrade the data itself. and in-place mongodb44 -> mongodb50 is also supported. 13:47:53 otis: so glad they handled the mongo upgrade. I can't seem to reach/manage any of my devices now, though. sigh. 13:48:16 maybe firewalls are in the way, but I haven't changed much recently 13:48:31 * dch reads https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/218506997-UniFi-Network-Required-Ports-Reference again 13:55:52 dch: mpd5s biggest strength might be the multi-link capability 13:55:59 i've ran into "snappy" problem 13:56:10 on a bit older stable/13 13:57:57 Why does maven depend on OpenJDK8? 13:58:17 Java bytecode is forward compatible, why do I need to have an older JDK installed in order to use maven?!!? 14:12:10 polarian: I wonder if the oldest jdk/maven is used to bootstrap newer jdks? speculation 14:13:06 hm... maybe maven has multiple ports... and I shouldn't use the metaport (a little like python)? 14:33:03 polarian: yep theres nexus2-oss maven maven39 maven363 and a wrapper as well 14:33:33 have a look through https://www.freshports.org/search.php?query=maven 14:34:48 hmm 14:53:21 debdrup, dch: thanks. the handbook only mentions mpd for pppoa (i'm using pppoe) but i'll give that a try 15:00:03 lw: I use it here, if I can help just ask. IIRC I got most of my info off a couple of blog posts 15:03:41 anybody using a modern wifi chip in a laptop they can recommend? 15:04:11 looks like my local inte 8265 is bust somehow and I need a replacement that works with iwlwifi or similar driver 15:24:11 i know of 2 that work with the run driver, if that helps? 15:27:01 jauntyd: sure! 15:28:58 LG PW-DN427 and Cisco-Linksys WUSB600N 15:30:43 thanks, I'll see what we have in stock nearby 15:30:48 ok, welcome 15:30:49 no wifi is a serious problem! 15:30:53 ;( 15:31:16 it would hinder my use of my laptop greatly 15:51:05 I can vouch for ax200/201 on openbsd laptop at least. Iwlwifi should support them on freebsd as well 16:20:51 how much overhead is there on enabling dtrace? or is it like no overhead until probes start getting enabled? 16:25:12 good to see FreeBSD finally got support for Windows 98 https://cgit.freebsd.org/src/commit/?id=f0e59ecff85d4b9e875464199e065a269c9c2530 16:25:13 Title: src - FreeBSD source tree 16:30:52 anyone using fluentbit for observability collection on freebsd hosts? how's it working? 16:32:50 It's good to see MS-Windows98 finally getting the support that it needs. :-) 16:33:54 Unless someone refutes it I will list this as a direct result of MS releasing their MS-DOS 4.0 source yesterday. (Or was it the day before.) 16:41:04 anyone get grafana tempo working on freebsd? 17:01:26 so my new router has a qat(4)... what can i use this for? is it just a kernel crypto accelerator for ipsec/tls? 17:02:01 lw: in theory, but it depends on the system if it makes sense 17:02:12 on something like an atom or xeon-d it probably does 17:03:16 it's an Atom C3758R, so fairly slow 2.4GHz cores. although i use Wireguard for VPN and i'm guessing it can't accelerate that 17:03:18 on other systems moving the data through a peripheral could be more expensive than doing it in accelerated software with aes and carryless multiply instructions 17:04:13 afaik no x86 cpu or chipset accelerates chacha20 or poly1305, but they're already designed to fast on any reasonable 32bit or wider cpu 17:04:28 and to be able to take advantage of realworld simd units 17:04:52 i wonder if it can accelerate zfs/geli encryption, it does say it works with crypto(4) 17:05:08 it's a bit harder to get optimal performance out of an implementation and requires more power per processed bit 17:05:37 but compared to the pain that is setting up a key exchange daemon for if_ipsec(4)? 17:06:13 or even worse older ipsec configurations like gre+ipsec? *shudder* 17:07:25 it may sound crazy, but you could give openvpn a chance since freebsd 14.0 has an accelerated datapath for it as kernel modules 17:07:51 and unlike wireguard it can make use of ciphers that are commonly implemented in hardware 17:08:28 i'll see how performance is first, the internet connection is only 1Gbps which i think should be fine in software wireguard 17:08:50 the driver is ovpn(4) 17:32:49 Hi, from a CGI (compiled) program that I run from Apache2 I launch /usr/local/bin/python3.9 and a scripts that uses pysmbclient. pysmbclient is a wrapper around smbclient, that in FreeBSD is located in /usr/local/bin, but in that script it doesn't specify the absolute path, but simply tries to run as "smbclient". So, the question is, is there a way to add the PATH environment somewhere to "help" 17:32:55 python find this program? 17:38:47 done. As smbclient.py is just a python file, I just copied to the same directory as my program and hardcoded the path to smbclient. 17:52:09 you can put `: ${yourprog_env:=PATH=/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin}` or whatever path you want in the rc script, if you're launching that way 17:54:41 anyone get grafana tempo working on freebsd? 20:44:14 dtrace overhead in production? 20:44:39 alepzi: depends on what you're tracing 20:44:45 and what your workload is 20:44:59 everything? 20:45:28 if you're pushing packets as fast as possible, probably unacceptable. if you're running a blog that a few people visit, an irc client and git, completely negligible probably 20:45:48 ok ty 20:47:14 obviously, if you instrument every single kernel function, you will notice a slowdown. similarly, if you instrument system calls, you probably won't notice much if anything at all depending on the workload 21:05:25 :) 21:13:47 Do we have lsblk at install? I was relying on label to id my partitions, but failed to find a tool and went full Rambo! Thanks God all went well and here I am! I also went into a slight problem, a full error, tbh. bsdinstall tries to install twice the same set of packages and then complains it can't unlink or somthing. Then it keeps going and it looks like everything is running perfect! Amazing OS. I wish I could have money to donate! 21:13:47 One day, I hope 21:15:00 Carbon666, Try this: geom -t 21:15:24 hey, rwp! I am running from the "daemon" itself, haha 21:15:45 with flip-flops in my case :P 21:16:23 There is a port pkg of "lsblk" which is attempting to do what the linux lsblk does but I find it failing at that attempt. 21:16:43 I am running on a DE, I mean, I can do whatever I want with it, right? 21:17:25 alright! geom -t worked perfectly! 21:17:29 thanks 21:19:00 I am still running it from Grub, chanloading. Since it seems it doesn't writwe the boot to the MBR(???) 21:19:11 chainloading* 21:19:50 it could be a problem if I decide to wipe my Void Linux 21:22:07 yeah, no lsblk at install 21:22:27 rwp, is it enough to pkg upgrade if I am only using pre-built packages, right? My machine is so slow that I am afraid to compile from ports :P 21:22:46 it is* 21:23:41 lsblk is kind of a pain point because people come from linux and then bash freebsd because they want it to be linux and it's it's own thing which is very cozy if you take it as what it is 21:23:52 I don't know how many people only use binary pkg packages but a lot of people only use binary pkg packages and it all works great. 21:24:42 i don't like it when people bash things. i don't like it when people bash windows even though i really, really don't want to use it. I've been running bsd on bare metal since middle school. 21:25:01 concussious, I was desperate to find a system that could feel "at home". Like... in the sense that you feel no one else is watching you, doing only God knows what with my data... 21:25:02 Right. The thing is that zfs is so nice and so much better than anything out of the box on the gnu/linux side of things that there is no need for lsblk -f and so it doesn't get created because it is not needed. 21:26:19 yeah the lsblk discussions make me sad. I can't tell you how many times I've seen freebsd flamed specifically because of lsblk. like, windows is a perfectly usable os, it doesn't have manual pages. it doesn't have dd. computer structures are all imaginary, different environments invent different concepts that don't map cleanly to each other. there's no problem. 21:26:38 In the gnu/linux side one must know the UUIDs of everything to put them into /etc/fstab or in /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf and such. But zfs handles all of that internally. The only zfs equiv is to use GPT labels. 21:27:15 lsblk -f is how one gets the UUIDs, which are just not needed to be known with zfs when using GPT labels. 21:27:34 I have some input: as of now, FreeBSD manages swap poorly as compared to linux. I am getting some crazy hiccups, but, it keeps going! Linux would just hang on you and you would have to finger it off.... 21:27:58 their tools tell you information that is pertinent to their tooling. we have tools that tell you different information that is pertent to our tooling. 21:28:06 I put the drive serial numbers into the GPT labels so that I can identify which drive is having a problem and needs to be replaced. And I keep tags on the drive bays so I know which drive is in which bay. And I also have that in an inventory file that I can review from anywhere without needing to see the front of the server. 21:28:14 Right! 21:28:34 its cathardic to talk about this. 21:28:50 I am not bashing Linux 21:29:01 I know you're not,thats why i feel safe to speak on it 21:29:16 thanks! 21:29:25 when people are wearing their bashing hats, i try to just be silent so i don't get in trouble 21:29:35 this pc is a miracle 21:30:01 I can see me using FreeBSD on a proper hardware, oh man! 21:31:10 Every system has a learning curve. I am using a multitude of various systems. I definitely enjoy doing things more on some than others. 21:31:52 FreeBSD is not perfect. I always cringe when I see people struggle with a laptop install and see them trying to get WiFi going. That's a soft spot for certain. Mostly wifibox seems to be the most capable escape path for it. 21:31:56 yeah, I am still building my own intelect, like, consuming "data models" 21:32:12 rwp: multitude of systems you say? https://mas.to/@markmcb/112277974202711167 21:32:13 Title: Mark McBride: "Far from from scientific, a summary of my major o…" - mas.to 21:32:16 :) 21:32:25 rwp, I tried to address that by introducing networking(7), maybe you could look it over and if you have anything t 21:32:27 \o a 21:32:30 to add 21:33:30 markmcb, I am very impressed! You have data! You have kept track of it! I bow to your zen mastery. 21:34:02 Nowadays, I am locked inside that youtube/X/IG/Whatsapp world 21:34:19 if you know what I mean 21:34:32 like, just a browser and poof, the user is happy 21:35:00 I must amplify my horizons 21:35:05 concussious, Do you have a reference pointer for me? Assuming you did not mean networking(4) I don't know how I would look at networking(7). 21:35:46 are you guys using the man commang? 21:35:47 it's in /usr/src/share/man/man7/networking.7 if you have an up to date src for main 21:35:51 yes 21:35:52 command* 21:36:01 I myself hit a wpa_supplicant+dhclient interaction bug (in 13, have not tried 14) that I was able to work around. 21:36:21 concussious, That must be in 14 and I have not upgraded to 14 yet. No networking(7) on 13. 21:36:23 so, if you're running current you can say "man 7 networking" or if not, then you can say "man /usr/src/share/man/man7/networking.7" 21:36:34 no it's not on 14 either, its in 15. 21:36:45 let me try 21:36:46 I hope they'll put it in 14.1 21:37:14 No joy here either: https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=networking&apropos=0&sektion=7&manpath=FreeBSD+15.0-CURRENT&arch=default&format=html 21:37:15 Title: networking(7) 21:37:27 since you can switch branches with git and have the whole tree, i keep my /usr/src/ up to date 21:38:38 https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/blob/main/share/man/man7/networking.7 21:38:39 Title: freebsd-src/share/man/man7/networking.7 at main · freebsd/freebsd-src · GitHub 21:39:10 my /usr/src/ is empty 21:39:34 let try to solve it by myself, it might be in the handbook 21:39:43 brb 21:40:01 concussious, Got it! I see the examples there. That will help people. 21:40:14 Life and time is what keeps everything from happening all at once! Stuff happening here. BBIAB 21:48:30 First, I need to focus on the init system 21:49:04 If I pretend to run a server, I must know everything about it 21:49:09 Carbon666: ? 21:50:12 the process and daemons, I am still reading the handbook, I need time, hehe. I gotta work tomorrow, woosh 21:50:45 I think you should download an updated set of manual pages. since the transition to git theres been a lot of people contributing to them. 21:50:49 is this system safe to keep a bitcoin wallet? 21:51:07 transition to git? 21:51:26 it scares the hell outta me :P 21:52:00 yeah, we were using subversion before, so now anybody can just make a pr on github, its really furthered manpages. 21:52:17 ah!!!! Cool 21:52:35 I would say that "safe to keep ___" is mostly dependent on your ability to keep backups 21:52:49 I will try to get sunday to spend in here, digging, learning 21:54:56 a pure FreeBSD, hardened and with an unplugged keyboard, still have single user, but, one must be able to brick all access forever without the root password, right? 21:56:05 not with Quantum Computers aroud, I see 21:56:16 around* 21:58:54 the "hard" installer is so smart, Jesus! 21:59:33 I... I think you can always fix it 21:59:44 I also think the cyborgs can always break it 22:00:17 okay, if you use geli with the settings for journalists, there's no fixing that. 22:00:52 if silicon was to be the best, GOd would have used it on us! We are carbon and Stars! 22:02:09 you can also disable single user login without password in /etc/ttys, but I don't do that 22:02:28 freebsd is treated as encrypted already to badguys, they have no idea what they're looking at 22:02:59 i need to be able to fix my stuff. if someone physically beats me up and takes my laptop, fine. 22:04:13 haha! what do you mean by "fixing my stuff"? Do you mean backups or using single user for somthing? 22:05:54 lets say you're playing with PAM, like you want your system to use fingerprint swipe instead of passwords... but then you configure it wrong. then, passwords are broken, so you can't log in if it needs you to in order to put the computer back the way it was before 22:06:28 I sometimes feel the reverberation from the kernel hitting the CPU. I think that was what I was looking for! WOW, what a beautiful insight! 22:10:21 concussious, alright! Good point. For a basement HD, with no machine plugged in, single user should be marked insecure. then you split the password between some trusted people, and let there some bitcoins for the future 22:11:03 we won't live forever, and we should offer to Cesar what belongs to Cesar! 22:12:49 not the bitcoins, tho hehehehe 22:13:04 because that belongs to ME! haha 22:21:06 concussious, how do I go about downloading an updated set of manual pages? 22:21:37 I looking at https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-doc 22:21:38 Title: GitHub - freebsd/freebsd-doc: FreeBSD doc tree (read-only mirror) 22:22:16 I gotta go to bed 22:22:24 tomorrow I will try to come back 22:22:30 I am just too tired 22:22:47 thank you all guys! And keep on rocking!!!!4 22:23:01 sorry I gotta go 22:42:44 damn, looks like they were successfully converted to being a happy FreeBSDer :) 22:56:50 based schitzo posting