01:57:37 is there some trick to getting tigervnc with enlightenment over ssh? 03:19:43 realdeimos: what problem do you encounter ? 03:21:25 there shouldn't be much to it. set up ~/.vnc/ with config and xstartup files. call vncserver $DISPLAY , and check the log that pops up in ~/.vnc 06:19:21 I eventually figured out the steps to get it working over ssh 06:19:58 thanks for the pointers, would've helped 07:49:43 can i somehow mark a service to start up after another one (or just late like with filesystems)? 07:50:00 still have the issue where my jails aren't reachable unless i do pf reload and no fix in sight… :F 08:46:28 rwp: pkg repos change atomically from build to build, so the only way for packages of existing ports to disapear, is for them to fail to build, that could be some temporary failure in which case the next build could have the package again or some real problem that has to be fixed first (well, it could be some dependency failing and the port in question beeing skipped too) 09:13:12 rwp & rtprio: I did "pkg upgrade -f", "freebsd-update fetch", "pkg-static upgrade -f pkg", "freebsd-update install", but I still get "ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libcrypto.so.111" not found, required by "php-fpm"" and the only libcrypto.so version in /lib is still "libcrypto.so.30". Any ideas? 09:16:21 andreas303: you have to reinstall all your packages (freebsd-update should have told you that the second time you ran it), libcrypto.so.111 is the old version (openssl 1.1.1) which was removed on the update as 14.x uses openssl 3.0 09:46:16 mhh, i have a mirror that's not being recognized by gmirror. doesn't show up in gmirror list or /dev/mirror, but the component devices are available in /dev/gpt – how do i rectify this? do i just do gmirror label again or will that destroy existing data? 09:46:20 nvm, different setup. this is a zpool. m) 11:18:42 nimaje: Hmm, but I have actually already reinstalled all packages (with "pkg upgrade -f") and rebooted. I will try again. 11:22:36 hm, does the packagename of php-fpm contain the php version? maybe an unfortunate timing of you updating freebsd and phps default version changing 11:25:40 ah, no php-fpm is part of the main php package and all php versions should get build if I understand that correctly 11:30:25 nimaje: Ah, yes, it seems so, because when I do "pkg search php-fpm", nothing shows up. 11:31:06 nimaje: Now I have done a "pkg upgrade -f", but I still get "ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libcrypto.so.111" not found, required by "php-fpm"". :( 11:32:21 nimaje: When I do "pkg info | grep php" I get a list of php80 packages and "php80-8.0.26". 11:35:27 that one doesn't exist anymore, so that explains why pkg upgrade -f didn't help, switch to a non-eol version of php 11:46:16 trying to setup a vpn-client using l2tp - any pointers on where to look for more information 12:13:45 hi there 12:14:07 I've been following https://www.linode.com/docs/guides/install-freebsd-on-linode/, but I'm not been able to properly start the installer after booting and using Glish. I'm at this step. I see the hello screen of the installer and I press enter to boot into multi-user mode, but it seems the system freezes. Has anyone been able to install FreeBSD on Linode lately? I tried FreeBSD 14.0 RELEASE first. (Now I'm trying version 12 because 12:14:08 the guide seems to use version 12.0 RELEASE.) 12:14:32 Here's what I get with version 12: https://pasteboard.co/CkimcYdGEveW.png 12:14:34 Title: Pasteboard - Uploaded Image 12:15:04 I'm gonna try version 13, but I'm losing hope. 12:20:56 IRC is dead. :) Since nobody is ever really online anymore, we should all switch to the USENET. 12:22:54 why not bulletin boards? 12:23:13 dial-in only 12:24:50 That's in fact a great idea. But I don't have a MODEM anymore. 12:26:32 i dont have a phone line 12:26:45 I actually have a phone line and don't even use it. 12:27:06 I'm not aware of any BBSs in my region either. 12:27:19 But the USENET is going great. 12:27:29 Big Black...?? 12:27:30 Specially great after Google Groups left it alone. 12:27:41 Big Black? 12:27:46 Don't know what that is. 12:27:51 albini rules 12:28:01 Albini rules? Don't know what that is. 12:28:25 were you cool in the 90s? 12:28:32 I guess not. 12:29:12 you'd have had to be uber cool in the 80s to catch them 12:29:20 I suppose. 12:29:27 Were you uber cool in the 80s? 12:29:32 nay 12:29:38 I was learning to read in the 80s. 12:29:44 i never bothered 12:30:35 hold me closer, tiny dansa 12:30:43 :) beautiful song 12:30:53 not cool toh 12:30:55 tho 12:30:59 :( 12:31:08 it's not cool? 12:31:12 why not? 12:31:34 i dont think any cool was ever "knighted" 12:31:38 *anyone 12:33:36 i suppose paul mcartney had his time in the sun.. 12:34:08 but we've never heard anyone say "sir ozzy osborne" 12:39:09 yeah 12:39:11 well said 12:39:22 but i think paul mccarthy and all the beatles are overrated 12:39:33 music is overrated 12:39:57 john lennon is so overrated 12:40:04 the whole thing is overrated 12:40:22 in fact, this conversation is over 12:40:23 :) 12:40:32 i gotta install a freebsd instance at a cloud 12:40:34 thanks for chatting 12:40:38 and for keeping IRC alive 12:40:44 see you in the USENET! 13:00:32 noneoftheabove: i'm not sure the guy who founded Wings could ever be considered 'cool' even at the time 13:04:53 lw: the tv show? 13:05:17 Non-ICEhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_McCartney_and_Wings 13:05:18 Title: Paul McCartney and Wings - Wikipedia 13:05:29 er, noneoftheabove: ^ 13:07:32 ok, i rescind my statement 13:08:10 or rather, reinforce my position that no-one cool has ever been knighted 13:08:17 :-] 13:08:26 elton is likely the coolest 13:09:05 apparently Mick Jagger got one? 13:11:53 and Rod Stewart 13:16:07 f those guys both 13:16:19 how come? 13:16:50 stones are disgusting sub humans 13:17:06 and stewart is kinda gross but i havent heard anything particularly nasty about him 14:23:03 Hi, I have a mini pc I use as a file server. I am interested in getting a second disk to create a zfs mirrored raid. It's for a home use case, would a QLC nvme suffice? 14:23:41 I guess I wouldn't really notice the latency issues if there are any to be honest, the price is good for what it is, I think. 14:24:01 uh-oh - somebody is not happy with my maintaining skills 14:24:09 What is a QLC NVME? 14:24:53 it's lower quality flash memory as far as I understand it 14:25:05 it's not necessarily quality, it's robustness. 14:25:13 it's about how many bits you pack into a given volume of space 14:25:25 ah, is that why they're "slower" ? 14:25:41 yes. and most notably less reliable 14:25:52 QLC uses 16 instead of 8 voltage levels 14:25:53 so the reliability is mostly what I am asking about 14:25:55 less room for error 14:26:09 okay, so not worth it to buy qlc 14:26:19 it is my data after all, even if it is just for home stuff 14:26:21 QLC are inferior in pretty much any metric except for cost per bit 14:28:13 SLC > MLC > TLC > QLC :D 14:28:45 Hi, I need to compile a program that needs gcc14. I have installed it, but as the MakeFile of that program calls gcc it uses gcc 12 instead of 14. How can I set gcc14 as the default gcc? 14:29:01 CC=gcc14 14:29:29 jbo: thanks! 14:29:58 did beastwick quit 14:30:07 sorry, client dropped, I am back 14:30:07 QLC is not worse, it's just the usual price/performance trade off 14:30:10 oh hi 14:30:24 beastwick: QLC is fine, just check the spec sheet, especially the IOPS and TBW (or DWPD) figures 14:30:35 it's worse if you care about reliability (and speed, but whatever on that one) 14:30:40 that's what you want to care about, not the specific technology 14:31:09 jbo: it's not worse. drives don't fail more often because they're QLC. they might offer lower performance, or lower endurance, but that's why the mfr published TBW and IOPS 14:32:20 any reputable mfr (seagate, WD, samsung, micron) will published accurate iops and tbw/dwpd for their disks 14:33:40 at least at the low end, availability of DRAM cache on the disk makes *far* more impact on performance than SLC/TLC/QLC does 14:34:05 this disk has 220TB (TBW) and 5,000 MB/s read 3,600 MB/s write 14:34:11 many low-end drives have no DRAM at all which means sustained write performance can be much lower than even an HDD 14:34:15 https://www.crucial.com/ssd/p3-plus/ct1000p3pssd8 14:34:16 Title: Crucial P3 Plus 1TB PCIe M.2 2280 SSD | CT1000P3PSSD8 | Crucial.com 14:34:16 unless I misunderstood beastwick didn't care too much about performance in this discussion 14:34:27 yeah, more concerned about reliability 14:35:01 I know this is all cheaper consumer grade stuff, but still want to know if I should just pay for the $90-$120 disk instead 14:35:58 beastwick: 220TBW for a 1TB disk sounds fine for home use to me. of course it depends on your specific usage. but if you write 100GB per day, the disk will fail after 6 years. 14:36:10 lw yeah that's not happening 14:36:26 it's just mostly a file/backup server with low per day transactions going on 14:36:26 ... and 100GB per day is pretty high for home usage 14:36:46 lw, btw, I decided to go for TR 7960x. mainboard & RAM arrived today 14:37:02 and Crucial (Micron) is a well-known brand, with a good reputation, so i would trust their figures 14:40:00 jbo: exciting! 14:41:00 jbo: is this going to be your desktop or a server? 14:41:06 lw, desktop 14:41:27 it's going to be my first AMD experience so I didn't want to risk going server 14:41:28 only 24 cores, surprised you didn't go for more 14:41:44 the 32 cores would cost 1k more :/ 14:41:50 ouch 14:41:52 yeah 14:42:02 7960x seems to be very, very good price/value 14:42:07 how much memory are you going to add? 14:42:13 128GB 14:42:33 my current rig has 64GB and that is getting right at times 14:42:40 single-socket MB i guess? (i don't know if TR can dual socket at all) 14:42:47 yeah, single socket 14:43:01 Asus TRX50-SAGE 14:43:34 it doesn't nearly have as many PCI lanes as the w7-34xx but... costs difference is HUGE 14:43:41 so I'll be giving AMD a chance :) 14:43:54 would have liked more RAM but... again, cost :D 14:43:58 huh 4.2GHz base clock on that, that's not bad. i think that's higher than the boost clock on my 5800X3D... i wonder how they do that 14:44:12 larger die means larger heat spreader i guess 14:44:20 lw, yeah, I looked at it long and hart. I really think that TR 7960x is an excellent option for "us" 14:45:01 jbo: yeah, i was mostly looking at EPYC because of the future expandability (with 2-socket MBs) but maybe i should do TR instead 14:45:06 haven't ordered the cooler yet 14:45:35 https://shop.watercool.de/HEATKILLER-IV-PRO-for-Threadripper-COPPER-NICKEL 14:45:37 Title: Watercool Heatkiller IV PRO Threadripper-Kühler Kupfer Nickel, 149,95 € 14:45:43 that's the current plan of action 14:45:45 i'll add my usual rec for Noctua, but i don't know if they do TR coolers 14:45:56 oh you're doing water cooling 14:46:05 yeah, no chance I'm going to throw 350W at a noctua 14:46:13 I have noctua in ALL my PCs. I adore them. but nope. 14:46:19 I plan to OC this rig so 400W... 14:46:38 ah missed the TDP. that explains the high base clock! 14:47:23 :) 14:47:38 the NHD-15 I currently have is already struggling with my overclocked i7-8086K 14:47:54 (I won the silicon lottery on that one) 14:47:55 jbo: in the mean time i've moved my -current builder to a VM on my M1 Mac ... the performance is really pretty impressive considering the hardware, and i'm pretty sure this will save a lot of money on AC power 14:48:19 (it was previously on a Ryzen 2700X) 14:48:34 lw, nice! I don't think that I'll have the luxury of considering AC power after this rig :s 14:48:41 what 14:48:55 if you don't have AC power what are you going to plug it into 14:49:07 I mean in terms of power consumption, sry 14:49:16 ah 14:49:27 well hopefully it won't use much power at idle, AMD seem good at that 14:49:41 don't know what to do for GPU yet 14:49:56 never had a non-quadro workstation and I like that nvidia provides native freebsd drivers 14:50:02 but the current selection is... meh 14:50:14 I have currently a Quadro P5000 which is 7 years old. I am considering just putting that into the new TR rig 14:50:18 jbo: assuming you're not a hardcore gamer, i recommend AMD GPUs of older 1-2 generations, so e.g. RX 6xxxx 14:50:29 well supported by amdgpu and good price/performance 14:50:51 lw, AMD doesn't provide native freebsd drivers, right? it's linux KPI crappery? 14:51:02 correct, but it runs Factorio with no problems 14:51:06 lol 14:51:16 FFF! 14:51:32 my desktop has an RX 6800 XT, i've been using it with Wayland (sway) since November and had no problems 14:51:51 I'm an X person (because bspwm) 14:52:01 i understand leaning towards nvidia on freebsd though given the native drivers... but do you remember the EGLStreams nonsense? 14:52:37 lw, I "remember" it: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/nvidia-current-status.81980/ 14:52:38 Title: Solved - Nvidia - Current status | The FreeBSD Forums 14:52:49 lw, not sure if that changed to. I just decided not to go for wayland :p 15:11:08 what's the currently preffered IPSec/IKEv2 implementation for FreeBSD? still strongSWAN? 15:12:48 lw: i use strongswan, but i think debdrup had ipsec working without it 15:13:32 dstolfa: with static keys or something else? 15:13:46 i know you don't need an IKE implementation for static keys but i think that's generally considered insecure nowadays 15:14:28 lw: i don't know what debdrup uses, i just vaguely recall it. i only use ipsec via strongswan to connect to the university vpn 15:20:26 hmm, i updated a RPi from 15.0 to 15.0 but two commits later and for some reason it's not booting 15:20:54 i would definitely say strongswan 15:21:45 yeah, you don't wanna settle with weakgoose 15:22:03 sounds like a good reason to stick with -RELEASE if possible 15:22:06 lw, the wonderful world of -CURRENT? :D 15:22:43 jbo, paulf: i don't see how this can be a -current issue since the two commits in between updates had nothing that could possibly affect booting. i suspect it's more of a generic freebsd-on-rpi issue 15:23:19 time to grab the microHDMI cable and see what's going on 15:30:31 ok, found the problem 15:30:34 [8!] witch /mnt/boot# ls kernel 15:30:34 [9!] witch /mnt/boot# 15:30:39 i think this is a pkgbase fuckup 15:30:56 kernel-less as a service! 15:31:08 or, I guess in this case: kernel as a service? :D 15:32:21 boot-lite 15:32:48 jbo: nowadays: "you didn't pay for the kernel, what do you expect?" 15:34:15 but i think the actual reason is in my pkgbase build i set KERNCONF to "GENERIC-NODEBUG GENERIC LFVM", then i updated this system, and i guess somehow this ended up with the default kernel being not installed 15:34:49 lw, btw. I figured out why my windows11 bhyve VM suddenly gets stuck during boot consistently - but I don't know how to fix it 15:34:54 probably because it had FreeBSD-kernel-generic installed, which installs in /boot/kernel.GENERAL, and it did not have FreeBSD-kernel-generic-nodebug installed, which would install in /boot/kernel 15:35:11 s/GENERAL/GENERIC/ 15:35:38 lw, when I don't pass-thru that PCIe USB controller card, it boost successfully every single time. when I have the passthru enabled, it gets stuck very early on (just after the windows bootloader is invoked). I have no idea why. It booed fine with the passthru for several days. and I really need that USB-Controller in the VM :D 15:40:41 jbo: i don't know why you persist in this weird config like passthrough of USB PCIe adapters, it seems like you're just inviting problems 15:41:56 lw, how else am I going to get a USB device into the bhyve guest? 15:48:14 ok, now this might be a 15.0 issue, the system just hangs halfway through boot https://www.le-fay.org/tmp/30d/9fE0NG.jpeg 15:56:53 Hi, can someone help me building an c++ 14 program? I'm getting: error: no template named 'tuple_element_t' in namespace 'std' and I don't know how to fix it. 15:57:17 BTW, is not my program, but https://github.com/elixir-nx/xla.git 15:57:19 Title: GitHub - elixir-nx/xla: Pre-compiled XLA extension 15:57:56 martinrame: did you try c++ -std=c++14? 15:59:11 lw: I cannot call c++ directly, this uses a MakeFile. 15:59:35 So far I'm building it with: std=c++14 CC=gcc14 CPP=gcc14 ROOT_DIR="$(pwd)" BUILD_ARCHIVE="~/xla_extension.tar.gz" make 15:59:48 But I'm not sure those are the correct env vars. 16:00:10 the std isn't 16:00:32 try CXXOPTS="-std=c++14" (or gnu14 maybe) 16:00:43 paulf: thanks, let's try that 16:01:11 Mm, same error 16:01:15 thougn if you are using BSD make I don't know that at all well so I could be wrong 16:03:06 martinrame: you probably need to ask the software vendor about this 16:03:44 lw: yes, I asked, but as they work on Linux they can't help: https://github.com/elixir-nx/xla/issues/78 16:03:46 Title: Cannot build on FreeBSD 14 x86_64 · Issue #78 · elixir-nx/xla · GitHub 16:03:46 78 – xdvi package is empty https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=78 16:04:31 martinrame: okay... how are you invoking the build? are you using the provided Makefile? could you please paste a full log of the build attempt? 16:05:20 lw: I'm invoking as this: CXXOPTS="-std=c++14" CC=gcc14 CPP=gcc14 ROOT_DIR="$(pwd)" BUILD_ARCHIVE="~/xla_extension.tar.gz" make 16:06:56 lw: https://pastebin.com/RS7JSKkw 16:06:57 Title: ERROR: /usr/home/informemedico/.cache/bazel/_bazel_informemedico/1fd8e3102f29134 - Pastebin.com 16:07:00 This is the output 16:08:36 you need to work out how the build system works - it looke like basel, and I see -std=c++0x 16:11:40 oof... I remember the last time I had to Bazel :S 16:12:18 I only ever tried to use bazel once all I got was java exceptions 16:18:50 what do folks use for service management in freebsd? like, auto-restarting things that have failed, stopping auto-restarting if that isn't working 16:19:34 % man service 16:19:53 > auto ? 16:20:14 paulf: sad but true 16:20:55 jaredj, init/service/rc 16:21:10 jaredj: I guess the manual page doesn't do it in 14-R. I think what you're looking for is 'service foo enable' 16:22:02 jaredj: no real standard solution for that, but you could look at daemon(8) which has support for auto-restarting services on failure 16:22:03 iirc daemon can do that auto-restart stuff 16:22:26 crude example: https://blog.insane.engineer/post/freebsd_daemonize/ 16:22:27 Title: Daemonizing on FreeBSD 16:22:37 in particular i have a matrix server, conduit, running inside a jail that's using iocage. apparently there's something someone can say to it that will cause it to panic with a message "not implemented yet" and die 16:22:51 :D :D :D 16:24:32 it's been a good little server other than this - i guess synapse takes a lot of ram, but conduit hasn't - i only have 1GB of RAM on this vultr vm and it's been pretty much working 16:24:51 thanks for pointers! reading up 16:25:27 if you installed the Matrix server from ports, the rc.d script probably uses daemon(8) already so it might just be a matter of adding some arguments 16:26:32 > -r, --restart 16:26:40 um ok, that seems easy 16:34:19 andreas303, /lib/libcrypto.so.111 is in /lib and part of base. Earlier you said you only had /lib/libcrypto.so.30 there. That's telling me that your FreeBSD base is not updated. That would be a problem with the base upgrade not the pkgs upgrade. 16:36:52 andreas303, I would double check that your base version is "freebsd-version -u" reports 13.3-RELEASE (I am still on 13.2-RELEASE-p10 but https://www.freebsd.org/releases/13.3R/relnotes/ is out now). If not then that is the problem. 16:36:53 Title: FreeBSD 13.3-RELEASE Release Notes | The FreeBSD Project 16:38:51 andreas303, You would need to do "freebsd-update -r 13.3-RELEASE upgrade" (or replace 13.3-RELEASE with your next release version, 14.0-RELEASE maybe) to fetch it and then "freebsd-update install" to install it. Then reboot. Then follow up with "freebsd-update install" to finish the base upgrade. Then verify that you have upgraded with freebsd-version. 16:40:02 That will bring in the new /lib/libcrypto.so.* version that you are reporting as currently missing from your system. And then the precompiled pkgs will work. 16:42:40 rwp: andreas303 updated to 14.0, so openssl updated from 1.1.1 to 3.0, that is why the .so.111 is the old version and the .so.30 is the new version 16:43:05 andreas303, Searching further into the scrollback I see you mentioned 14 not 13 so I should have said 14.0-RELEASE there. But I still think the problem is an incomplete base upgrade. Since you reported that you only had /lib/libcrypto.so.30 there. 16:49:52 and the incomplete update is thatphp 8.0 is eol and was removed from the ports tree, so pkg upgrade -f couldn't install a version for the new abi and the old package was still used 17:27:49 lw: first listed kernel in KERNCONF is the default kernel 17:35:13 rwp & nimaje: Oh, OK. Hmm, so what would you recommend me doing to get back on track with my failed upgrade? Should I remove all php80 packages and try to install php81/php82/php83 packages instead? The /etc/os-release shows FreeBSD 14, so that made me believe that the upgrade was complete and finished. 17:36:57 rwp & nimaje: I'm a slight newbie when it comes to solving unexpected FreeBSD problems. I'm still learning. :-] 17:39:51 andreas303: yes reinstall that stuff for a non-eol version of php, as I already told you at 11:35 UTC 17:55:06 nimaje: OK, I'll try. Thx! 18:13:23 Are their any free beginner level OS/kernel design courses (video preferred) that center around FreeBSD? By "beginner" I mean, you already know C, know the how to use/operate freebsd and it's internals, but don't know much about the code/algorithms behind it. 18:17:27 that's not "beginner" anymore :P 18:17:56 Well, begnner in the sense that I know nothing about OS design :) 18:19:24 TIL: freebsd's kernel has a function named 'hammer_time()' which I found kinda funny 18:21:43 https://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~remzi/OSTEP/ is good, but it is about unix-like OSs in general, not freebsd 18:21:44 Title: Operating Systems: Three Easy Pieces 18:45:59 is there a smarter way to search mailing lists? 18:57:47 Didn't M. Lucas write a book about FreeBSD design? (Not video, but that's what jumps to my mind.) 19:31:52 The Desigan and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System? 19:34:34 That rings a bell. 19:37:56 that one is by Marshall McKusick and George Neville-Neil, sadly I haven't read a FreeBSD book yet 20:18:25 I have installed FreeBSD 14 on my ThinkPad X280. Everything is working very well except HDMI. It works if I boot the machine with the cable plugged. But not if I hotplug it. I have tried both with the modesetting-driver and with the XF86-video-intel driver. This seems to be a problem only in FreeBSD. It works very well in OpenBSD. The card is an Intel UHD 620