01:21:32 <RoyalYork> Evening all
05:50:00 <realdeimos> dautor8518050: I figured it out, it was nat64/dns64 creating ipv6 addresses where none existed. truss is still great.
05:54:07 <nmz> lua is pretty slow though
07:25:46 <dautor8518050> realdeimos my favourite tool! It's also amazing for teaching and learning.
07:28:52 <dautor8518050> What happened at 5:20 UTC? Is it only me or was there ~1000 leaves and joins?
07:29:29 <AmyMalik> Rerouting at libera HQ
07:30:56 <tm512> laptop setup is coming along nicely, I think. I bit the bullet and went with vector fonts, since I can dial in the exact size I want: https://matrix-client.matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/dJkoHktrDrtbWCIgxJaeGhMk
07:32:02 <tm512> not sure I'm going to stick with this font, I find the spacing between letters to look pretty off, like the weirdly large space between r and a in my hostname
07:34:24 <dautor8518050> dwm is my favourite wm. Now I want to go back to it...
07:34:35 <dautor8518050> tm512 which font is that?
07:43:25 <tm512> dautor8518050: it's monoid https://larsenwork.com/monoid/
07:43:26 <VimDiesel> Title: Monoid
07:43:30 <tm512> available in ports
07:46:56 <tm512> before ditching it I might check out the "tight" variant of the font which I'm pretty sure I saw got installed
08:20:53 <megaTherion> Hi, I recently have trouble configuring net/samba416 from ports - via make config, regardless I always get "Skipping 'config' as NO_DIALOG is defined"
08:23:38 <tm512> I'm noticing that suspending seems to interact weirdly with uptime on FreeBSD. I'm guessing it just pauses uptime, but the reported uptime when I shutdown seems lower than I'd expect
08:24:09 <tm512> either way, definitely different from Linux, where uptime actually reports how long it's been since I turned the machine on, including time spent suspended
09:11:17 <bitblt> Hello
09:57:49 <bitblt> Can somebody tell me in what package the libz.so.6 belongs?
09:58:41 <bitblt> I just updated a jail and it broke with: ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libcrypto.so.111" not found, required by "pkg"
09:58:59 <bitblt> and: ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libz.so.6" not found, required by "indexinfo"
09:59:17 <megaTherion> bitblt: libz.so should be part of base
09:59:53 <megaTherion> is this about a broken upgrade process?
10:00:28 <bitblt> Yes
10:01:40 <megaTherion> I see, well then you should revert to the last working state and retry
10:01:52 <bitblt> I'm a newbie so I'm trying to bring all the pieces together on how freebsd works, but for starters my huge mistake was trusting the truenas core ui to do a jail update instead of `iocage update`ing it my self
10:01:55 <megaTherion> if you're doing this via freebsd-update and also have ZFS available you'll have a BE which you can switch to
10:02:11 <bitblt> megaTherion: BE?
10:02:14 <megaTherion> Boot Environment
10:02:48 <megaTherion> try bectl list
10:02:56 <bitblt> First of all this is about a jail update, but as far as I understand the principle should be the same?
10:03:07 <megaTherion> yes the principle is exacly the same
10:03:14 <megaTherion> except you obviously won't require a kernel update & reboot
10:03:28 <bitblt> megaTherion: ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libcrypto.so.111" not found, required by "libzfs.so.4"
10:03:46 <megaTherion> which versions did you upgrade exacly?
10:03:56 <crest_> bitblt: did you just upgrade from 13.x to 14.0?
10:04:03 <megaTherion> that's what it looks like
10:04:26 <crest_> sound like you already deleted the old shared libs before you upgraded the rest
10:04:57 <bitblt> crest_: I don't really know what the truenas core ui actually does with the jail 'update' button (but for sure I wont be trusting it again)
10:05:20 <crest_> can you still run freebsd-version -kru
10:05:28 <crest_> and uname -a
10:05:51 <bitblt> uname -a: FreeBSD radarr 13.1-RELEASE-p2 FreeBSD 13.1-RELEASE-p2 n245412-484f039b1d0 TRUENAS amd64
10:06:07 <bitblt> freebsd-version does not exist in the container
10:06:24 <bitblt> jail* (sorry linux habbits)
10:06:41 <crest_> so they stripped down the userland beyond what is reasonable on a storage server^^
10:06:50 <megaTherion> bitblt: you cant upgrade to 14.x if your host is 13.x
10:07:02 <megaTherion> this is not supported
10:07:05 <bitblt> megaTherion: I did not intent to
10:07:16 <crest_> the annoying truth is that 13.1 has been end of life for a while so expect a bumpy ride
10:07:22 <bitblt> I thought the jail 'update' button only did minor updates
10:07:33 <megaTherion> I see, well then just rollback to a prior snapshot
10:07:37 <megaTherion> problem solved then
10:07:51 <crest_> if it ran env PAGER=cat freebsd-update fetch install it should just install security and bug fixes
10:08:05 <crest_> but it appears to do more
10:08:10 <megaTherion> he's not using FreeBSD, he's using a *NAS fork which is out of the scope of FreeBSD vanilla anyways
10:08:37 <crest_> how familiar with freebsd are you? do you want to understand the problem or just get it working again?
10:09:08 <bitblt> crest_: Great question, I really want to get familiar with freebsd
10:09:27 <crest_> if you have a snapshot from before the upgrade (not update) rolling back would the easy way to undo it all, but that would include any data you changed in the jail since
10:09:37 <bitblt> Last night I actually deep dived into some stuff before coming here, like iocage etc.
10:10:16 <bitblt> crest_: another HUGE mistake I did is that I did not take any snapshots prior hitting the update in the jail
10:10:19 <megaTherion> bitblt: the cleanest way is to go back to a state which works, but if you want you can copy the missing libs out of the host into the jail
10:10:23 <megaTherion> its a dirty fix, could work
10:10:26 <bitblt> so my previous snapshot is 4 months old
10:10:32 <crest_> did their jail frontend do it for you?
10:10:51 <bitblt> crest_: yes, never using it again
10:11:02 <bitblt> I'm now trying to understand all the internals
10:11:10 <bitblt> and manage these things by shell
10:12:10 <bitblt> (I believe I'm pretty experienced with linux, but some basic knowledge around freebsd is trying to settle in my brain from last night now)
10:12:11 <crest_> does /bin/sh still work in the jail?
10:12:17 <bitblt> crest_: yes
10:12:22 <bitblt> pkg-static works too
10:12:38 <bitblt> crest_: I have a shell inside the jail
10:13:10 <crest_> but you don't have /bin/freebsd-version?
10:13:35 <bitblt> /bin/freebsd-version: Command not found.
10:13:47 <bitblt> I do have freebsd-update though
10:14:51 <crest_> the problem is that freebsd 13.1 is end of life which means that the update servers may no longer have everything you need cached
10:15:25 <crest_> how big is your truenas system (cpu cores, ram)?
10:15:46 <bitblt> crest_: Yeah I kind of got that when `iocage fetch` only showed me 13.2-RELEASE
10:16:30 <bitblt> crest_: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1220 v3 @ 3.10GHz, 16G ECC RAM, 4+4TB storage in zfs mirror + 128G boot pool
10:16:34 <crest_> there is a good chance that a freebsd 13.2 userland will (mostly) work on a 13.1 kernel, but it would only be by accident
10:16:55 <crest_> because you're not supposed to run a newer userland on an older kernel (only the other way around is supported)
10:17:22 <bitblt> crest_: ok, lets play
10:17:59 <crest_> take a snapshot now if you haven't already
10:18:15 <crest_> that way you can go back if you make it even worse
10:18:37 <crest_> do you have any services you can't/won't stop still running in the jail?
10:18:57 <bitblt> nop, no problem
10:19:24 <bitblt> I broke my uptime after 325 days, at this point its all about recovery without loosing past 4 months
10:19:25 <crest_> run sockstat -l -4 -6 to make sure nothing is listening on IP sockets that you forgot about
10:19:51 <crest_> are you willing to share which service(s) the jail provided?
10:20:00 <crest_> after you took the snapshot you can try this
10:20:01 <megaTherion> big uptimes only suggest that you haven't updated a long time :)
10:20:31 <bitblt> crest_: yes, its a jail that has radarr, similar thing happened to my sonarr,bazarr etc jails
10:21:16 <bitblt> crest_: I just did `iocage snapshot radarr`, next step?
10:21:30 <crest_> env PAGER=cat freebsd-update --currently-running 13.1-RELEASE -r 13.2-RELEASE upgrade
10:21:56 <crest_> assuming you're stuck somewhere between freebsd 13.1 and 13.2
10:22:04 <bitblt> Looking up update.FreeBSD.org mirrors... ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libcrypto.so.111" not found, required by "libprivateldns.so.5"
10:22:36 <crest_> can you run file -s /bin/sh to learn more about your current userland
10:22:55 <bitblt> librypto.so.111 and libz.so.6 that are missing are major pain points now
10:23:00 <bitblt> ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libz.so.6" not found, required by "libmagic.so.4"
10:23:09 <bitblt> when running file -s /bin/sh
10:23:40 <crest_> run ls /.zfs/snapshot
10:24:08 <crest_> it should show you your snapshots
10:24:21 <bitblt> ok I have a REALLY old one
10:24:23 <bitblt> 2022-12-09-22:07:16
10:24:30 <crest_> that's fine
10:24:56 <bitblt> found libz.so.6 and libcrypto.so.111
10:25:07 <bitblt> I suppose I copy them from the snapshot to the root fs?
10:25:10 <crest_> run ls /.zfs/snapshot/$name/lib
10:26:00 <bitblt> crest_: yeah, lots of libs there
10:26:05 <crest_> you can copy the missing from the old snapshot's /lib into the messed up /lib
10:26:23 <bitblt> I just did
10:26:26 <bitblt> pkg now works
10:26:36 <bitblt> freebsd-version too??
10:27:02 <crest_> it would be kind of pointless because freebsd-version itself contains the userland version number
10:27:06 <bitblt> I messed up
10:27:12 <bitblt> I was on the host
10:27:30 <bitblt> so no in the jail I dont have the relevant libs
10:27:46 <crest_> can you run mount -v inside the jail?
10:27:46 <bitblt> neither a zfs snapshot
10:27:58 <bitblt> tank/iocage/jails/radarr/root on / (zfs, local, noatime, nfsv4acls)
10:28:11 <crest_> or zfs list -t snapshot | grep radarr on the host
10:28:39 <crest_> you can also try to copy the libraries from the host /lib into the jails /lib
10:29:33 <bitblt> crest_: I tried copying from the host but I get
10:29:35 <bitblt> cp: /mnt/tank/iocage/jails/radarr/root/lib/libz.so.6: Read-only file system
10:29:36 <babz> you can run the update from the host
10:29:50 <babz> with freebsd-update -b <path_to_jail_root>
10:30:29 <bitblt> babz: what is the difference between iocage update and freebsd-update?
10:30:37 <crest_> babz is right assuming truenas doesn't point freebsd-update to their own updating servers etc.
10:30:57 <crest_> iocage is what's called a jail manager. a piece of software to manage multiple jails
10:31:23 <crest_> it's one of the large ones (from the complexity point of view)
10:32:06 <bitblt> host does not have a freebsd-update
10:32:08 <bitblt> zsh: command not found: freebsd-update
10:32:08 <crest_> freebsd itself has the mechanisms required to run jails, but almost no policies pushed on the user
10:32:44 <crest_> bitblt: truenas probably removed it because it would be too tempting for a user to bypass their high level upgrade workflow
10:32:58 <crest_> which would result in truly broken host systems
10:33:56 <crest_> their design is to take full charge of the host system. you're not supposed to mess with the host. if you want be in control put it in a jail or virtual machine
10:34:14 <crest_> which is a nice idea until their jail manager exploded into your face
10:34:17 <bitblt> crest_: Ok so I suppose we are back into trying to add the missing libraries libz.so.6 and libcrypto.so.111 into the jail
10:34:43 <bitblt> tried copying them from the host, I get read-only file system
10:34:44 <crest_> can you run mount -v | grep /jails on the host
10:35:19 <bitblt> loots of stuff
10:35:42 <bitblt> crest_: I suppose you are interested in this:
10:35:44 <bitblt> /mnt/tank/iocage/releases/13.1-RELEASE/root/lib on /mnt/tank/iocage/jails/radarr/root/lib (nullfs, local, noatime, read-only, nfsv4acls, fsid 8bff0c2929000000)
10:36:59 <bitblt> I did this:
10:37:01 <bitblt> cp /.zfs/snapshot/2022-12-09-22:07:16/lib/libz.so.6 /mnt/tank/iocage/releases/13.1-RELEASE/root/lib/
10:37:10 <crest_> okay the jail manager (iocage) has used nullfs (the linux equivalent would be a bind mounted directory) for the jail
10:37:37 <crest_> the nullfs mount is read-only to allow them to share a single copy of the userland among multiple jails
10:37:44 <bitblt> crest_: I suppose they are using it to make some kind of container base / overlays
10:38:08 <crest_> yes but only on a per mountpoint basis
10:38:32 <crest_> without a dynamic unionfs (because there is no usable in-kernel unionfs)
10:39:11 <crest_> i'm not familar enough with iocage to know how exactly they mount the writable filesystems on top of that
10:39:52 <crest_> i assume there will be either a bunch of zfs filesystems mounted into the jail in the relevant places or a single one with writeable nullfs mounts to piece it together
10:39:53 <bitblt> Ok, some progress
10:39:53 <bitblt> ld-elf.so.1: Cannot open "/usr/local/lib/libcrypto.so.11"
10:40:40 <crest_> thats a (broken) reference to the libcrypto provided by the openssl package (not the one in the base system)
10:41:31 <crest_> if you have pkg working you can try pkg install -g 'openssl1*'
10:41:44 <crest_> don't blindly press y
10:41:55 <bitblt> crest_: I have pkg-static working
10:41:57 <crest_> but check what it wants to change if you get that far
10:42:19 <crest_> can you run pkg-static install pkg to reinstall the package manager?
10:43:22 <bitblt> crest_: reinstalled pkg, still needs libcrypto.so.11
10:43:38 <crest_> to be expected
10:43:54 <crest_> run pkg search openssl
10:43:54 <bitblt> (by the way, really thank you for going though this with me, learning a lot of tricks)
10:44:18 <bitblt> I suppose we need openssl111-1.1.1w
10:44:38 <crest_> now run pkg info | grep openssl
10:45:00 <crest_> (yes there are more elegent ways to query the installed packages but this is easier)
10:45:14 <bitblt> I just installed openssl111, pkg is alive
10:45:25 <bitblt> Shall I run pkg update?
10:45:31 <crest_> yes
10:45:33 <bitblt> and pkg upgrade?
10:45:38 <crest_> start with pkg update
10:45:44 <bitblt> crest_: works
10:45:48 <crest_> that updates your local copy of the package repo meta-data
10:45:58 <bitblt> yep done
10:46:02 <crest_> as in which packages are supposed to exist on the repo mirrors
10:46:19 <bitblt> (similar to debian's apt update I suppose)
10:46:33 <crest_> there is a difference between freebsd and most linux distros
10:46:52 <crest_> freebsd splits the system into base (kernel + userland) and ports/packages
10:47:30 <crest_> the ports tree is a collection of build instructions to fetch, compile and package software
10:48:34 <bitblt> Ok
10:49:02 <bitblt> I suppose that everything I install with pkg install <simplename> is a userland package
10:49:12 <bitblt> from the official repos?
10:50:08 <bitblt> crest_: also, shall I run upgrade now?
11:01:23 <megaTherion> bitblt: pkg are 3rd party packages
11:01:37 <megaTherion> official in the sense that each port has a maintainer and deals with the upstream
11:02:37 <bitblt> megaTherion: But they live in the freebsd repos / mirrors yeah?
11:02:45 <megaTherion> yes
11:02:58 <megaTherion> pre-compiled packages which are on official mirrors
11:03:25 <megaTherion> they are however, not part of the distribution
11:11:31 <crest_> bitblt: back
11:12:07 <crest_> can you run file -s /bin/sh inside the jail now?
11:12:28 <bitblt> crest_: /bin/sh: ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), dynamically linked, interpreter /libexec/ld-elf.so.1, for FreeBSD 13.1, FreeBSD-style, stripped
11:12:57 <crest_> is that from inside the jail or on the truenas host?
11:13:29 <bitblt> crest_: from the jail
11:14:06 <crest_> at least that part of of your corrupted userland is from FreeBSD 13.1
11:15:59 <bitblt> crest_: so, what's next?
11:16:08 <crest_> the proper way to do it would be upgrade your host first, butthat could be problematic if truenas is still stuck on 13.1
11:17:09 <crest_> you could try to use the iocage interface on the host to prepare a 13.2 jail template and switch your existing jail to it
11:17:32 <bitblt> As far as I know it is even older than that, latest stable version in their site is: 'TrueNAS CORE 13.0-U6.1'
11:18:07 <crest_> their release is a mix of a newer freebsd kernel with older parts on top of that
11:18:27 <crest_> uname -a tells you among other details which kernel version you're running
11:19:15 <bitblt> crest_: I suppose now the next step is something in the lines of 'iocage upgrade radarr -r 13.2-RELEASE'
11:19:42 <crest_> that could work, but it wouldn't be a supported configuration
11:19:47 <bitblt> lets see
11:23:14 <crest_> i would also recommend that you install the package bsdadminscripts2
11:23:43 <crest_> for its pkg_libchk script
11:24:00 <crest_> which scans for missing libs
11:24:39 <bitblt> inside the jail I suppose
11:24:39 <crest_> some packages like the go compiler will produce false positive because they include test elf files
11:24:41 <crest_> yes
11:27:13 <crest_> it finds all elf executables installed via pkg and tries to locate the shared libs required
11:27:50 <crest_> if it finds any missing libs it will tell you which package contains the executeable, the path and the missing libs
11:28:06 <crest_> e.g. i just found this on a lab machine
11:28:07 <crest_> nfs-over-tls-1.2: /usr/local/sbin/rpc.tlsclntd misses libssl.so.111
11:28:07 <crest_> nfs-over-tls-1.2: /usr/local/sbin/rpc.tlsclntd misses libcrypto.so.111
11:28:07 <crest_> nfs-over-tls-1.2: /usr/local/sbin/rpc.tlsservd misses libssl.so.111
11:28:07 <crest_> nfs-over-tls-1.2: /usr/local/sbin/rpc.tlsservd misses libcrypto.so.111
11:31:12 <bitblt> I think we are good after the manual cp of libz.so.6 and libcrypto.so.111
11:31:41 <bitblt> only these missing
11:31:43 <bitblt> radarr-4.7.5.7809_2: /usr/local/share/radarr/bin/libMonoPosixHelper.so misses libiconv.so.2
11:31:45 <bitblt> radarr-4.7.5.7809_2: /usr/local/share/radarr/bin/libcoreclrtraceptprovider.so misses liblttng-ust.so.0
11:32:15 <crest_> did the jail upgrade to freebsd 13.2 go through?
11:32:56 <bitblt> nop because the radarr package has a dependency on libssl.so.11
11:33:01 <bitblt> that does not exist
11:33:25 <crest_> i don't see how iocage upgrade to care about that
11:33:40 <crest_> of course you as user care about the service the jail is supposed to provide
11:33:49 <bitblt> it stopped with that error though
11:33:53 <crest_> intersting
11:34:29 <crest_> the easiest way to fix that would be to delete the package from the jail an install it again
11:34:42 <crest_> because during the installation it will also install the dependencies
11:35:12 <crest_> if you want to make sure the packages exist you can run pkg install -f -F radarr first
11:35:43 <crest_> -f to force it to work on already installed packages, -F to only fetch the (latest version of) the packages
11:36:09 <crest_> or if you want to upgrade everything pkg upgrade -F
11:36:21 <bitblt> i think the usage of iocage plugins also complicates the whole setup
11:36:23 <crest_> that only updates the packages not the base system
11:36:33 <crest_> oh you're using plugins^^
11:36:37 <crest_> yes that does complicate things
11:37:00 <bitblt> if i knew I would just setup everything in vanilla jails
11:37:06 <bitblt> yes I'm using this plugin:
11:37:08 <bitblt> https://github.com/ix-plugin-hub/iocage-plugin-index/blob/master/radarr.json
11:37:10 <VimDiesel> Title: iocage-plugin-index/radarr.json at master · ix-plugin-hub/iocage-plugin-index · GitHub
11:37:22 <bitblt> which in turn uses this repo:
11:37:24 <bitblt> https://github.com/freenas/iocage-plugin-radarr
11:37:25 <VimDiesel> Title: GitHub - freenas/iocage-plugin-radarr
11:37:39 <crest_> the plugins are a nice idea, but they didn't invest the effort to support them
11:38:04 <bitblt> and I suppose the problem in iocage upgrade is that the plugin has radarr as a dependency
11:38:16 <bitblt> so as part of the upgrade process it tries to install that too
11:40:07 <crest_> i would try to delete the package before the upgrade
11:40:23 <crest_> either it reinstalls it or it doesn't in the later case you can reinstall it manually
11:41:17 <bitblt> i don't really know how the package upgrade process happens, but I'm kinda afraid because I see that the program lives in /usr/local/radarr
11:41:22 <crest_> because it looks to me like the radarr plugin only the port forwarding and runs a trivial post_install.sh script
11:41:23 <crest_> https://github.com/freenas/iocage-plugin-radarr/blob/master/post_install.sh
11:41:23 <bitblt> and its data live in /usr/local/radarr/data
11:41:24 <VimDiesel> Title: iocage-plugin-radarr/post_install.sh at master · freenas/iocage-plugin-radarr · GitHub
11:41:56 <crest_> take a snapshot of you jail datasets first *shurg*
11:42:11 <crest_> it's already broken and if it gets worse you can go back
11:42:26 <crest_> it's only a media downloader after all
11:42:42 <bitblt> why do I always forget the snapshots
11:42:55 <crest_> because few file systems truly support them
11:43:01 <bitblt> maybe because I never lived in a powerfull fs as zfs
11:43:49 <crest_> heck on real freebsd you can even create a new boot env, start it as a jail, run a system upgrade inside the jail and reboot the system into the new boot env
11:43:56 <crest_> for minimal downtime upgrades
11:44:17 <crest_> if fails you just boot the old boot env and try again
11:44:37 <crest_> assuming you have access to the system console (e.g. ipmi, video+keyboard, serial port)
11:45:04 <crest_> it doesn't help you with cheap budget hosters that don't provide a (trustworthy) way to access the system text console
11:45:45 <bitblt> yes, I'm starting to see the power in all of it
11:54:29 <bitblt> crest_: So I tried upgrade to 13.2-RELEASE in my bazarr jail, here is the log: https://bsd.to/ctvB
11:54:30 <VimDiesel> Title: dpaste/ctvB (Plain Text)
11:55:12 <bitblt> crest_: update seemed to work, but the jail base does not seem to be updated?
11:55:51 <crest_> when i still used truenas it had fairly good documentation on these things
11:59:33 <crest_> i don't know if they maintained that quality when they moved from their own jail manager to iocage
11:59:58 <bitblt> now they have nothing
12:00:06 <bitblt> either where to click in the gui
12:00:23 <bitblt> or an obvious pointer to the iocage upgrade
12:02:46 <crest_> https://www.truenas.com/docs/core/13.0/uireference/jailspluginsvms/ ?
12:02:46 <VimDiesel> Title: Jails, Plugins and Virtual Machines |
12:03:22 <crest_> and https://www.truenas.com/docs/core/13.0/coretutorials/jailspluginsvms/jails/ ?
12:03:24 <VimDiesel> Title: Jails |
12:10:57 <crest_> i remember them going into more detail *sigh*
15:33:06 <jimmiejaz> is it just me, or any one find it "odd" that /usr/ports/UPDATING hasn't seen an update since 20231229 ? I just check the GIT, and it's the same, or has there been nothing of note recently to add
16:12:03 <voy4g3r2> jimmiejaz: they have been talking about splitting up libc and some bsdinstaller efforts.. with a sprinkle of gpart and bsd labels.. but i think it is still work in progress
16:19:09 <voy4g3r2> so not surprised it has not been updated since that date
16:53:01 <kevans> those are all src efforts, not ports
16:58:05 <voy4g3r2> oh crap, i misread you are right kevans
17:00:58 <BinGOs> maybe there are no updates that make it worth updating UPDATING
17:18:53 <Demosthenex> but omg, this repo hasn't been updated in DAYS! it must be abandoned! i must complain on reddit instead of helping!
17:52:48 <rwp> Demosthenex, Your comment torments me because I see that happening too often.  It's satire but it is also a documentary.
17:53:19 <Demosthenex> rwp: you think it's bad in a package manager? try common lisp libraries
17:53:40 <Demosthenex> s/DAYS/YEARS/    fewer commits == mature, not dead.
17:53:48 <Demosthenex> feel my tormet.
17:54:58 <rwp> I feel it!  I truly feel it.  It is a shared torment.
17:55:52 <Demosthenex> waaah i got an awesome os/program/library/framework for FREE! i demand premium support! i'll pay you in EXPOSURE
17:57:36 <Demosthenex> gah! wait! c?! who writes in C? i demand you recode this in rust or $favnewlang asap!
17:58:24 <Demosthenex> god i've done this too long. i hate modern computing
17:59:14 <rwp> This code is so obsolete.  No one has made a commit in the last several hours.  It's obviously dead.  Let me take over the project so that I can rewrite it entirely and make it into a MODERN thing with MODERN features.  Let me alienate everyone else who uses it.  Let me leave the project in disgust after breaking almost everything about it.
18:00:05 <rwp> Just to let you know that I do feel your pain.
18:00:58 <Demosthenex> OMG! it's not modern because it doesn't have a blinding white background and variable spaced fonts!
18:05:18 <jimmiejaz> holy hannah, it was an observation, not a cry for help. I just don't think I've ever seen that file not updated in a couple months since.. at least 4.0 was released. But flame on, I got thick skin.
18:09:05 <rwp> jimmiejaz, You did not realize it but you tripped and spilled lemon juice into our open wounds.  Ouch!  It's okay.  It's just the state of things.
18:09:20 <Demosthenex> they are delayedin their conversion of that file into git-mark-up-down-gui-font-terminaled-asciidoc!
18:09:39 <Demosthenex> damn i'm salty
18:13:17 <debdrup> jimmiejaz: have you noticed breaking changes, that should be in UPDATING?
18:13:47 <debdrup> That's the purpose of the file, to keep track of breaking changes; if you haven't noticed any, and there's been no additions, it's possible there's been no breaking changes.
18:14:58 <debdrup> It's also possible that they've gone unnoticed, but in that case it might be because something broke that nobody's using, so it's kinda hard to do anything about that when upstream doesn't supply a test harness and there's no standardized test harness.
18:54:55 <crust_cheese> Hello folks
18:58:52 <rtprio> hey cheezy
18:59:14 <RoyalYork_> hi
19:02:05 <crust_cheese> I'm in a bit of trouble, I got X11 running well on my x86 FreeBSD installation w/ KDE. I would prefer running Wayland using my AMD 5700 XT GPU, however SDDM seems to crash as soon as I log in to a Wayland session. I'm a bit stumped as to how to debug this, since KWin on Wayland doesn't write Xorg logs, nor anything else I could find. Does anyone have some pointers for me?
19:03:39 <crust_cheese> Or might it be possible that SDDM with the Plasma Wayland option does not start KDE as outlined in the handbook (e.g. dbus launch --exit-with-x11 ck-launch-session startplasma-wayland)?
19:11:56 <rtprio> can you try just starting wayland without the sddm
19:28:29 <crust_cheese> For experiment's sake, I also tried with KDE6 - no dice unfortunately
21:37:38 <Alloysious> Hi - naïve question - do AMD cpus report estimated wattage if you are not on battery/laptop hardware?
21:50:58 <Alloysious> another beginner question - how can I view boot logs from a previous failed boot? eg equivalent of journalctl
21:53:06 <Alloysious> or maybe... does freebsd even record logs from a boot that goes into KP before reaching login?
23:00:55 <crest_> now that iX systems has given up on FreeBSD does would it be too much trolling (on top of a trademark lawsuit waiting to happen) to name the TrueNAS CORE fork TrulyFreeNAS?
23:01:44 <crest_> .oO( i shouldn't switch tabs mit sentence )
23:01:48 <crest_> *mid
23:01:53 <crest_> gn8